New Political Party Ready To Launch

[sriracha john]

P-Net move to stage debate

The People's Network for Elections will try to get the two top contenders for prime minister, Samak Sundaravej and Abhisit Vejjajiva, to face off in a debate next Thursday.

P-Net would deliver invitations to People Power Party leader Samak and Democrat leader Abhisit, Secretary-General Somchai Srisutthiyakorn said.

Democrat spokesman Ong-art Klampaiboon said if Abhisit had no important or urgent schedule, he would join the debate, as the party was ready to discuss its policies any time.

Ong-art wanted to see conditions of the event first, but said: "We have no fear of the debate. It's a normal matter."

PPP Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee said it was up to Samak to decide whether to participate.

"If Samak knows the details and format of the debate and thinks he can join it, he will accept the invitation. Our party is fully prepared [to argue] about policies," he said.

Samak has refused to share the stage with any rival recently, saying he did not want to fight with other candidates and was not good at speaking when time was limited.

- The Nation

Edited December 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

Samak will never accept and Thaksin never did participate in a debate because they know they just can't keep up with Abhisit and a thousand touchy subjects they refuse to discuss, somewhat like walking through a mine field carrying a back pack full of old and sweaty dynamite sticks. Cowards.

[hammered]

Samak will never accept and Thaksin never did participate in a debate because they know they just can't keep up with Abhisit and a thousand touchy subjects they refuse to discuss, somewhat like walking through a mine field carrying a back pack full of old and sweaty dynamite sticks. Cowards.

It is still true that all Thai elections are won and lost by behind the scenes deals and nothing to do with initiiatives, policies or teh ability of memebers to ably do waht is best fro the country.

[sriracha john]

A tough job for election panel

Whether Chaowarin Latthasaksiri, a People Power Party-list candidate, really meant what he said, his warning that the country would burn if the party were dissolved for electoral violations could be deemed both a threat and a challenge to the Election Commission. Apparently the PPP candidate was concerned that the EC would investigate the allegation made by Veera Somkwamkid that many VCDs had been widely distributed in the North and Northeast in which former PM Thaksin Shinawatra urged people to vote for the PPP. It is encouraging the EC has not taken Chaowarin's warning seriously and is going ahead with its investigation into the VCD case. Despite the PPP candidate's prediction, the country will definitely not burn so long as the party members and their supporters play by the rules and not resort to mass instigation.

Bangkok Post Editorial continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/13Dec2007_news98.php

[John K]

Comments all meant to drum up fear. Yes there will be problems if the PPP falls, but they fall by their own hand.

[hammered]

Comments all meant to drum up fear. Yes there will be problems if the PPP falls, but they fall by their own hand.

There will also be trouble if PPP are seen to win the election by underhand means with the EC not doing anything about it. That is the hard position the authorites find themselves particularly over the massive VCD dump which has been admitted to by various people at various times. Do nothing and PPP maybe wins helped by the dump, which is by the way totally unfair on all th eother parties playing by the rules. Do something and PPP are disbanded disenfranchising many. There really is no middle ground.

One also wonders how the EC could give a validatiopn of election results as required iof a potential disolution were hanging over a party. It may be that results could not be declared until after the case. Then if a party is disolved does that mean that the runners up are declared winners or that a whole swathe of byelections are required? This is starting to get messy.

[guyshown]

I would suggest to all the other parties besides PPP to stop being so worried what PPP is doing or not doing and worry about your own partie -- It seems to me that they all are scared the PPP may win....!

[hammered]

I would suggest to all the other parties besides PPP to stop being so worried what PPP is doing or not doing and worry about your own partie -- It seems to me that they all are scared the PPP may win....!

The other parties are playing by the rules. It is not easy when you se your opponents basically cheating and little in real terms being done about it. Why should they stay quiet?

[sriracha john]

Matchima Thipatai Party Leader Disregards Threats from Party’s Candidates

Prachai Leoprairat, the embattled Matchima Thipatai leader yesterday told the press that he is not worried about threats by several of his party’s candidates in the North, which vowed to burn party jackets and tear down Prachai’s campaign ads if he refuses to provide funding for their campaigns.

The industrial tycoon argued that being party leader does not mean he has to act as a “big shot” that finances party candidates and their campaigning.

Prachai suggested that his candidates should raise money similar to candidates of the Democrat Party by organizing fundraisers. His comment followed threats by several members of the party to defect the Matchima Thipatai due to insufficient funds for campaign implementation.

In response to Prachai’s refusal to provide Northern candidates with campaign funds, ten candidates contesting party-list seats in the northern provinces of Lampang, Prae and Nan foreboded that they would burn their party jackets to protest and detach Matchima Thipatai’s advertising boards in the areas tomorrow.

A source close to the party revealed that various Matchima Thipatai’s candidates in numerous provinces were desperate of campaign funds. For instance, a constituency candidate running in Samut Prakan had paid 5,000 baht in candidacy registration fee and spent over 700,000 baht out of his pocket to fund his campaign, said the source.

Many candidates claimed that Prachai had promised to help finance their campaign with an allowance of 105 million baht, but retracted his words when conflicts emerged between him and the Somsak Thepsuthin faction.

Earlier, Prachai announced to resign as party leader following a Criminal Court ruling which found him guilty of manipulating the stock prices of his famous cement company, TPI Polene Plc. Prachai later changed his mind to stay on as party leader when his supporters begged him not to resign.

However, the candidates threatened to continue protesting until Prachai changes his mind. Speaking during yesterday’s party election campaign held at the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand, Prachai said he had already contributed large amount of money for the party and sacrificed much for the country.

Prachai concluded that it would be up to the candidates if they should decided to continue protesting.

- Thailand Outlook

[sriracha john]

AMLO clarifies 60 million baht situation

The Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) has released information concerning the recent seizure of 60 million baht worth of Hong Kong dollars brought to Thailand in cash by 5 Chinese nationals. The 5 people have been brought in for questioning as authorities fear the cash may be used to support vote-buying and illegal campaigning.

Authorities seized the 5 Chinese nationals after discovering the money in cash citing the Money Exchange Act which states that travelers may not enter or leave the country with an excessive amount of cash. AMLO questioning of the detained travelers found that they had planned to invest the money and circulate it in businesses. Investigations though found that all 5 people were traveling on tourist visas and had no links to businesses in any country.

The cash was especially suspicious to the AMLO as it entered the country within days of the release of a video CD featuring speeches by the former Prime Minister and increased tactics to reinstate the old power clique.

The AMLO has avowed to continue its investigation but 2 of the 5 people have already returned to Hong Kong. Nonetheless, the office believes the money is still in Thailand and is reviewing laws that will allow it to confiscate the cash.

- ThaiNews

[hammered]

And just to confuse us more from the Post:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124410

Poll shows Democrat lead in party-list vote

The survey, which assessed opinions of 1,472 people from Dec 4-10 in 16 provinces, said 34.2% of respondents will vote for Democrat party while 31.9% will vote for PPP.

Close but if confirmed by other equally dubious polls a trend. Personally I take it all with a pinch of salt!

Edited December 13, 2007 by hammered

[hammered]

And:

Banharn ends tie with Thaksin

From the post: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124413

Thats one less coalition option for PPP

[blaze]

Comments all meant to drum up fear. Yes there will be problems if the PPP falls, but they fall by their own hand.

There will also be trouble if PPP are seen to win the election by underhand means with the EC not doing anything about it. That is the hard position the authorites find themselves particularly over the massive VCD dump which has been admitted to by various people at various times. Do nothing and PPP maybe wins helped by the dump, which is by the way totally unfair on all th eother parties playing by the rules. Do something and PPP are disbanded disenfranchising many. There really is no middle ground.

One also wonders how the EC could give a validatiopn of election results as required iof a potential disolution were hanging over a party. It may be that results could not be declared until after the case. Then if a party is disolved does that mean that the runners up are declared winners or that a whole swathe of byelections are required? This is starting to get messy.

Do you think the EC lost any credibility with its exoneration of the CNS over the secret plan to swing the vote away from PPP?

Which is more dangerous- that the PPP gets away with some shenanigans- (or the Dems or any other party for that matter) which, due to absence of proof are not prosecuted- or that a party- could be the Dems- any party- is prosecuted without evidence? (as every advertizer/PR guy knows- the power of association is a lot stronger than appeals to objective reasoning- and just hearing PPP- many hear "criminal').

By making public every allegation against the PPP that crosses their desk- to a press that is only too ready to seize on each of these allegations as further proof of the nefarious nature of the party- is it even plausible to think that enemies of the PPP are going to accept a PPP victory as legitimate?

Or that, should real evidence come to light that warrants serious action taken, the friends of the PPP will accept an EC ruling against the PPP?

As Hammered says- it's lose lose right now- for everybody I fear.

Edited December 13, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Matchima Thipatai Party Leader Disregards Threats from Party’s Candidates

Prachai Leoprairat, the embattled Matchima Thipatai leader yesterday told the press that he is not worried about threats by several of his party’s candidates in the North, which vowed to burn party jackets and tear down Prachai’s campaign ads if he refuses to provide funding for their campaigns.

The industrial tycoon argued that being party leader does not mean he has to act as a “big shot” that finances party candidates and their campaigning.

Prachai gives cash to Isaan candidates

Matchima Thipataya Party Leader Prachai Leophairatana yesterday paid Bt500,000 to each of the 12 candidates from the Progressive Northeast faction in order to finance their campaigning expenses.

"We are glad that our leader Prachai has not forgotten us," faction spokesman Warin Atnak said.

The faction presented a list detailing expenses amounting to Bt830,000 per candidate, but Prachai negotiated a reduction on grounds that he was facing myriad political and financial woes.

"The faction has sympathy for Prachai's legal wrangling, which includes a Bt90 billion lawsuit and will settle for his pledge to take care of us and our campaign activities," Warin said. He said all 12 faction members were now reporting directly to Prachai without having to go through party treasurer Silapin Buranasilapin.

Key faction members, including first-time candidate Pian Yongnu and former senator Somboon Thongburan, are in the race in Mukdahan, Maha Sarakham, Khon Kaen, Nakhon Phanom, Udon Thani and Yasothon.

- The Nation

[sriracha john]

Three PPP candidates in Korat investigated for vote-buying

The Election Commission has launched the investigation into a vote-buying case involving three constituency candidates of the People Power Party in Nakhon Ratchasima, EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said on Thursday.

"The EC will proceed with caution to examine evidence before drawing any conclusion," he said. The most contentious issue is whether the payments were meant to buy votes, he said.

The parties and candidates should step up precautionary checks to ensure their complaince with campaigning rules, he said.

Following a tip-off on November 13, provincial police uncovered and seized Bt10,700 from a vote canvasser Tee Sae Lek. The funds were stashed in several envelopes, each containing Bt200, Bt300 and Bt500 bank notes stapled to a list of three candidates. *doing business the old-fashioned way*

The canvasser claimed that the funds were earmarked to pay transportation costs for constituents to attend the November 12 campaign rally. The three candidates involved are Prasert Chanruangthong, Linda Choedchai and Boonlert Krudkhuntode.

Reacting to news reports, Boonlert said his campaign had no linkage to canvasser Tee. *but of course not... that's the way it's supposed to work*

- The Nation

EC defers vote-buying ruling

The Election Commission (EC) yesterday deferred until next week its ruling on vote-buying allegations against three People Power Party candidates in Nakhon Ratchasima province. EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said the commission needed more time to question a new witness for the accused. The three candidates testified to the commission yesterday. The charges were filed after a PPP canvasser, Teesae Lek, 56, was arrested with a number of calendars with bank notes stapled to them, according to news reports. The calendars reportedly contained information and photos of the PPP candidates. Apichart said all three PPP candidates denied the charge.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/14Dec2007_news12.php

[sriracha john]

Wait... there's more horse-trading:

Wadah faction denies defection to People Power Party

A Wadah faction [part of the banned Thai Rak Thai Party] member yesterday denied reports of a move to the People Power Party, but a source said the group might defect if it can control the selection of candidates in the South.

The group will make its decision today.

Wadah is still with the Matchima Thipataya Party, but that might change depending on the political situation, he said.

Well, some of them made their decision...and change, they did...

Wadah faction defects to PPP

Seven members of Wadah faction decided to defect from the Matchima Thipataya party to the People Power party on Friday.

The members include Den Tohmeena, Areepen Uttarasin and Sommart Jaena. The Wadah faction, which projects itself as the voice of Muslim voters in a predominantly Buddhist parliament, is popular in the three southernmost provinces. People Power Party officially welcomed its new members at its head office on Friday. Areepen said the Wadah group decided to join PPP because it champions democracy policy in solving southern unrest, which is the faction's ideology.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=123218

Wadah faction face an uphill battle in South

Heavyweight candidates from the People Power Party are likely to be defeated in the Dec 23 poll in the three southernmost provinces, where the Democrat party won almost all the seats at the previous election in 2005. The election in Narathiwat, Yala and Pattani, where a total of 12 seats are to be contested, is expected to be a tough fight between well known candidates. Political watchers believe that Nujmuddin Uma, a leading member of the Wadah faction of the dissolved TRT Party who is now running under the PPP banner in constituency 2, may lose out in the race. Areepen Uttasin, the leader of the Wadah faction, is a PPP candidate contesting a House seat in the proportional representation system for zone 8. He hopes the PPP will win at least seven of the 12 seats in the three provinces under the constituency system. Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban said his party is expected to win up to 10 seats, with the remainder shared by other parties. Last time the Democrats won 11 seats and the other seat went to the Chart Thai Party.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/14Dec2007_news10.php

[Ricardo]

EC defers vote-buying ruling

The Election Commission (EC) yesterday deferred until next week its ruling on vote-buying allegations against three People Power Party candidates in Nakhon Ratchasima province. EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said the commission needed more time to question a new witness for the accused. The three candidates testified to the commission yesterday. The charges were filed after a PPP canvasser, Teesae Lek, 56, was arrested with a number of calendars with bank notes stapled to them, according to news reports. The calendars reportedly contained information and photos of the PPP candidates. Apichart said all three PPP candidates denied the charge.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/14Dec2007_news12.php

A classic example of how PPP/TRT/Thaksin like to help Thailands' poor people, purely out of the goodness, of their own hearts & intentions.

Perhaps Samak will show his support for democracy, and anti-corruption efforts, by condemning this party-worker, as the unauthorised misbehaviour of a rogue individual ? Or distribute 5 million copies of a new VCD, with speaches by the former caretaker-PM, urging voters not to vote for any party which indulges in such anti-democratic practises ? But don't hold your breath

Can anybody explain to me what, apart from their own honesty, prevents voters from accepting these bribes, preferably from several different candidates, but then voting for somebody else ? I've never understood that ?

[Plus]

Do you think the EC lost any credibility with its exoneration of the CNS over the secret plan to swing the vote away from PPP?

Which is more dangerous- that the PPP gets away with some shenanigans- (or the Dems or any other party for that matter) which, due to absence of proof are not prosecuted..

Five million VCDs is not a proof? The EC can't do anything to Thaksin for violating his electoral ban, they need to find the distributors (they can't do anything to Newin the alleged producer either, btw).

It's a curious situation - someone is doing campaigning for PPP but the party denies all involvement. If you look at the vote buying case in Korat - what if the candidates deny all the links to canvassers? Will they get away scott free?

The EC has a difficult question here.

As for CNS exoneration - the plan wasn't put in place, they argued, no offence has been committed. I'm not sure that's enough, but the generals also said that PPP wasn't mentioned by name in the original documents which is also very important - the plan was to prevent Thaksin from returning to power, doesn't matter under which banner, not specifically agaisnt PPP.

By making public every allegation against the PPP that crosses their desk- to a press that is only too ready to seize on each of these allegations as further proof of the nefarious nature of the party- is it even plausible to think that enemies of the PPP are going to accept a PPP victory as legitimate?

It isn't the press that is trying to prove the "nefarious" nature of the party. It's the message PPP itself is spreading by all means possible - we are Thaskin's nominees, vote for us - vote for Thaksin, Thaksin himself said you should vote for PPP.

What is considered "nefarious" in public view is their main campaign strategy. Only Surapong goes to the press and tries to deny it and talks about policies instead while PPPs electoral machine on the ground drives in the opposite message to the voters.

>>>>

For the first time in many years poll resutls seriously contradict each other. I still think PPP will win big, and possibly get Suwit on board to block Democrats+Chat Thai from forming the government. At that point even all the other small parties combined won't be able to save Democrat led coalition.

[John K]

I have been a bit reserved in making a comment as there are so many fronts going on at the moment. I see two possible outcomes here and both involve heavyweight action.

The first one is actually the cleaner of the two but neither are mess free. That would be the EC puts the PPP/TRT/Thaksin out of the game. That would certainly give reason to the news article I read today in the nation about the added security and denial of potential unrest.

That story here: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/12/14...es_30059042.php

The second one is even a bigger mess. Assuming the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group buys it’s way back into power and becomes dominant, I can see another coup on the horizon. That coup will only come once the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group start dismantling the checks put back in place over the last 14 months. I doubt the military will let that go on for very long before they pounce. It will provide them the reason for the coup. Knowing the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group, that should be going on the same day they are sworn in. That coup will not be as clean as the last because it will be anticipated.

There is a Third scenario that puts the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group back in power but as a minor entity. There are just too may variables this far out to make a prediction on that.

[blaze]

Do you think the EC lost any credibility with its exoneration of the CNS over the secret plan to swing the vote away from PPP?

Which is more dangerous- that the PPP gets away with some shenanigans- (or the Dems or any other party for that matter) which, due to absence of proof are not prosecuted..

Five million VCDs is not a proof? The EC can't do anything to Thaksin for violating his electoral ban, they need to find the distributors (they can't do anything to Newin the alleged producer either, btw).

It's a curious situation - someone is doing campaigning for PPP but the party denies all involvement. If you look at the vote buying case in Korat - what if the candidates deny all the links to canvassers? Will they get away scott free?

The EC has a difficult question here.

As for CNS exoneration - the plan wasn't put in place, they argued, no offence has been committed. I'm not sure that's enough, but the generals also said that PPP wasn't mentioned by name in the original documents which is also very important - the plan was to prevent Thaksin from returning to power, doesn't matter under which banner, not specifically agaisnt PPP.

By making public every allegation against the PPP that crosses their desk- to a press that is only too ready to seize on each of these allegations as further proof of the nefarious nature of the party- is it even plausible to think that enemies of the PPP are going to accept a PPP victory as legitimate?

It isn't the press that is trying to prove the "nefarious" nature of the party. It's the message PPP itself is spreading by all means possible - we are Thaskin's nominees, vote for us - vote for Thaksin, Thaksin himself said you should vote for PPP.

What is considered "nefarious" in public view is their main campaign strategy. Only Surapong goes to the press and tries to deny it and talks about policies instead while PPPs electoral machine on the ground drives in the opposite message to the voters.

>>>>

For the first time in many years poll resutls seriously contradict each other. I still think PPP will win big, and possibly get Suwit on board to block Democrats+Chat Thai from forming the government. At that point even all the other small parties combined won't be able to save Democrat led coalition.

re the Korat incident: hilarious. Police found nothing. Story invented by media. And then took on a life of its own. This according to the Post article above.

Do you recall the denials on the part of the CNS- denials that the media seemed to accept at face value- that the so called Secret document- first didn't exist- then was a forgery- then was revised by the PPP- and only finally (not much coverage of this) verified as an exact copy. YET: when the so called 'secret document' hit the news- you only have to go back and read this thread- it was taken by many- based on reports posted here and published in the media- as a set up by Samak. Which it has turned out NOT to be at all.

re the VCDs- it is not unheard of for non-party members in any democratic system to circulate literature that encourages support for a specific party- including illegal literature.

Now how's about all that money pouring in from China to fund the PPP? Any progress on that? Or is it just left hanging?

Edited December 14, 2007 by blaze

[Plus]

re the Korat incident: hilarious. Police found nothing. Story invented by media.

That is what happened according to the accused. How much trust to you put in his words, and why?

re the VCDs- it is not unheard of for non-party members in any democratic system to circulate literature that encourages support for a specific party- including illegal literature.

So you think it's a third party, independent of PPP and anonymous too, campaigning on their behalf. Stranger things happen, of course. Green aliens, perhaps.

[John K]

Interesting observation here. The Nation typically updates their main page a few minutes after midnight. Today it was well after the sun came up. Perhaps not related and may have a very explainable reason, but non the less it is unusual that a computer driven update did not happen. It certainly suggests some tweaking of stories may have been underway.

[blaze]

re the Korat incident: hilarious. Police found nothing. Story invented by media.

That is what happened according to the accused. How much trust to you put in his words, and why?

re the VCDs- it is not unheard of for non-party members in any democratic system to circulate literature that encourages support for a specific party- including illegal literature.

So you think it's a third party, independent of PPP and anonymous too, campaigning on their behalf. Stranger things happen, of course. Green aliens, perhaps.

The original story said that the police had found the calendars didn't it? Now mister B says that the police in fact did NOT find calendars. If B is lying- why wasn't that included in the Post report? Surely the EC has access to the police reports. B would have to be pretty stupid to say the reports say one thing when they clearly say something else.

As far as people distributing info encouraging voting for a specific party- which they might not be formally affiliated with- ever hear of lobby groups?

[Plus]

He says the calendars were not included in the police reports, that's not the same thing. Maybe they didn't exist and the media just imagined the whole incident or someone told them outright lies about calendars and stapled notes. Or maybe police paperwork (at least the one quoted by the accused) does not reflect the reality.

I haven't heard on any lobby groups electioneering on behalf of PPP, let alone giving away millions of CDs for free.

It is probably the work of banned Newin, btw. Should PPP be punished for his clearly illegal campaign? Some VCDs contain speeches by official PPP candidates.

[blaze]

He says the calendars were not included in the police reports, that's not the same thing. Maybe they didn't exist and the media just imagined the whole incident or someone told them outright lies about calendars and stapled notes. Or maybe police paperwork (at least the one quoted by the accused) does not reflect the reality.

I haven't heard on any lobby groups electioneering on behalf of PPP, let alone giving away millions of CDs for free.

It is probably the work of banned Newin, btw. Should PPP be punished for his clearly illegal campaign? Some VCDs contain speeches by official PPP candidates.

Well Plus we'll just have to wait and see. It may well be that the PPP criminals are of the caliber that leave their calling cards scattered around the country after each bank hold up- but- I kind of doubt it.

As far as lobbying for PPP without being party members- there are many on this board that publicly publish material that vaunts the advantages of a Democrat win- I doubt all of them are party members.

Edited December 14, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

PPP candidate taunts EC

People’s Power Party candidate Prasaeng Mongkolsiri has utilized tactics that the Election Commission (EC) earlier warned him to not engage in by incorporating photographs and video of ouster Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in his campaigning.

During a recent rally in Uthai Thani, Prasaeng presented citizens with a large photo of Thaksin and also gave a speech attacking the work of the EC. He also presented a video CD of the former premiere.

Prasaeng had recently been warned of such actions by the EC, which stated that he may be given a red or yellow card which would bar him from participating in the election.

- ThaiNews

[hammered]

Comments all meant to drum up fear. Yes there will be problems if the PPP falls, but they fall by their own hand.

There will also be trouble if PPP are seen to win the election by underhand means with the EC not doing anything about it. That is the hard position the authorites find themselves particularly over the massive VCD dump which has been admitted to by various people at various times. Do nothing and PPP maybe wins helped by the dump, which is by the way totally unfair on all th eother parties playing by the rules. Do something and PPP are disbanded disenfranchising many. There really is no middle ground.

One also wonders how the EC could give a validatiopn of election results as required iof a potential disolution were hanging over a party. It may be that results could not be declared until after the case. Then if a party is disolved does that mean that the runners up are declared winners or that a whole swathe of byelections are required? This is starting to get messy.

Do you think the EC lost any credibility with its exoneration of the CNS over the secret plan to swing the vote away from PPP?

Which is more dangerous- that the PPP gets away with some shenanigans- (or the Dems or any other party for that matter) which, due to absence of proof are not prosecuted- or that a party- could be the Dems- any party- is prosecuted without evidence? (as every advertizer/PR guy knows- the power of association is a lot stronger than appeals to objective reasoning- and just hearing PPP- many hear "criminal').

By making public every allegation against the PPP that crosses their desk- to a press that is only too ready to seize on each of these allegations as further proof of the nefarious nature of the party- is it even plausible to think that enemies of the PPP are going to accept a PPP victory as legitimate?

Or that, should real evidence come to light that warrants serious action taken, the friends of the PPP will accept an EC ruling against the PPP?

As Hammered says- it's lose lose right now- for everybody I fear.

This election i feel will not solve anything. For a start people are now just voting based on Thaksin or coup. The country is still divided and will remain so. Whoeever loses will not accept it. If PPP wins its opponents will see it as cheating and inaction of the EC. If PPP loses they will see it as a rigged ballot. If PPP is disbanded they will se it as unwarranted. If PPP is not disbanded it will be sen as a dodgy deal or weakness by itys opponents. There really is no easy way out of this.

I cant see the EC addressing the issues before it personally. It really is a lot to ask of a small group of people to make decisons that could hand an election to one side or the other bearing in mind these are not normal times in the democratic process.

[blaze]

Comments all meant to drum up fear. Yes there will be problems if the PPP falls, but they fall by their own hand.

There will also be trouble if PPP are seen to win the election by underhand means with the EC not doing anything about it. That is the hard position the authorites find themselves particularly over the massive VCD dump which has been admitted to by various people at various times. Do nothing and PPP maybe wins helped by the dump, which is by the way totally unfair on all th eother parties playing by the rules. Do something and PPP are disbanded disenfranchising many. There really is no middle ground.

One also wonders how the EC could give a validatiopn of election results as required iof a potential disolution were hanging over a party. It may be that results could not be declared until after the case. Then if a party is disolved does that mean that the runners up are declared winners or that a whole swathe of byelections are required? This is starting to get messy.

Do you think the EC lost any credibility with its exoneration of the CNS over the secret plan to swing the vote away from PPP?

Which is more dangerous- that the PPP gets away with some shenanigans- (or the Dems or any other party for that matter) which, due to absence of proof are not prosecuted- or that a party- could be the Dems- any party- is prosecuted without evidence? (as every advertizer/PR guy knows- the power of association is a lot stronger than appeals to objective reasoning- and just hearing PPP- many hear "criminal').

By making public every allegation against the PPP that crosses their desk- to a press that is only too ready to seize on each of these allegations as further proof of the nefarious nature of the party- is it even plausible to think that enemies of the PPP are going to accept a PPP victory as legitimate?

Or that, should real evidence come to light that warrants serious action taken, the friends of the PPP will accept an EC ruling against the PPP?

As Hammered says- it's lose lose right now- for everybody I fear.

This election i feel will not solve anything. For a start people are now just voting based on Thaksin or coup. The country is still divided and will remain so. Whoeever loses will not accept it. If PPP wins its opponents will see it as cheating and inaction of the EC. If PPP loses they will see it as a rigged ballot. If PPP is disbanded they will se it as unwarranted. If PPP is not disbanded it will be sen as a dodgy deal or weakness by itys opponents. There really is no easy way out of this.

I cant see the EC addressing the issues before it personally. It really is a lot to ask of a small group of people to make decisons that could hand an election to one side or the other bearing in mind these are not normal times in the democratic process.

Very true- and the EC in some circles anyway (my circle) has certainly not done itself any favors either- from the battle with PNet- to one of the commissionaires bragging in a Post interview about his close personal ties to Sarayuth.

Then this morning we get the first concrete conviction for vote buying (a democrat by the by) -but this didn't come from the EC- but the Supreme Court. To the unititiated (like me) this almost conjours up a picture where the EC is only involved if there is suspicion of PPP shenanigans. (I know of course that this particular case occurred and was being investigated long before the current EC took power- but it would be nice if just for appearances sake- the EC was seen through more than platitudes to be genuinely committed to ensuring that ALL parties get a fair shake. Including the PPP. And sometimes my gut feeling- I doubt I'm alone- is that the EC exists for the single purpose of finding fault with the PPP.

They may very well be very honorable people- I have no idea- and to a certain extent I blame the media for seizing on every little complaint that the EC gets across its desk- providing the complaint singles out a party that the media is not supportive of. The EC would do better to give out NO information of allegations till something close to hard evidence is submitted.

Justice must not only be done - but seen to be done- politics is about perceptions- and the perceptions are going to be, after the 23d, very polarized methinks.

I'm afraid it's lose-lose.

[John K]

One thing is certain, if and when the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group is sent packing, based on what Samak was saying there will be few that will say they did not deserve it.

For the people that sold votes, they will probably welcome it seeing another round of handouts in the near future by someone. I am beginning to think this is more and more the case based again on the security increase clipping I cited.

The dates for in increase do not coincide with the election. I can see them starting now but they should end the day after the voting is finished and the ballets are secure. I tend to suspect the EC has already let the government know the PPP is going down, and giving them time to ready for the fallout with the added security.

[hammered]

One thing is certain, if and when the PPP/TRT/Thaksin group is sent packing, based on what Samak was saying there will be few that will say they did not deserve it.

For the people that sold votes, they will probably welcome it seeing another round of handouts in the near future by someone. I am beginning to think this is more and more the case based again on the security increase clipping I cited.

The dates for in increase do not coincide with the election. I can see them starting now but they should end the day after the voting is finished and the ballets are secure. I tend to suspect the EC has already let the government know the PPP is going down, and giving them time to ready for the fallout with the added security.

If disolved the PPPs upcountry faithful would not be overly happy but I doubt they would riot or anything, and security plans are more likely in place to prevent certain feudal masters from brininging their usual mobs to bkk. The trouble is more likely the international community would be slightly unhappy although not too badly. Investment sentiment would not improve which would leave the economy in a precarious position. And the country would still be divided into groups that hated each other. The picture is not pretty. It is also no prettier if PPP wins and assumes power, or gets ousted in another coup.

I persoanlly think the EC are just going to let things run their course and am not convinced they intend to do anything. Trying to see a good way out of this is nigh on impossible. Even if the Dems were to amazingly win the election, PPP would say it was rigged.

Turbulent times. I used to hear a lot of Thai friends say it will be alright after the eelction. Now I dont hear this.