Westernisation

[The Gentleman Scamp]

The first time I came to Thailand was only three years ago, and one of the first things I noticed oddly enough, were the slogans on the crop tops of young girls, stuff like...

CUTE GIRL

LOVELY HEART

HUG ME

In the U.K. I was used to seeing slogans such as...

SUPERBITCH

DON'T LOOK AT WHAT YOU CAN'T HAVE

SLUT

BITCH

GIRL ON TOP

COOL BITCH

Some of these tops were worn by girls as young as ten, wearing fishnet stockings so they could be cool just like Christina Aguilara.

More recently, the cancer that is westernisation is affecting LOS more and more.

People say the Thai's are fukced up, but nowhere near as much as the western world is, where kids are brought up by the media influence of Britney Spears and Sex And The City.

A media culture where only those in the in-crowd survive, a culture where it's good to be bad and bad to be good - it's cool to be Sexy, Naughty, Bitchy (heard that song yet?) and all the wrong wrong WRONG messages that are sent out by the modern, good-looking-but-thick-as-pig-shit popstar with nothing to say or convey.

The younger generation in the U.K. don't know what it's like NOT to be insecure, and although Thai's are insecure - they've always shown it whereas western girls and boys hide behind a facade that couldn't care less and has no feelings and wants to do some coke man, you know what I'm sayin right, yeah, you know wot I mean bro coz it's like escapism and dat rapper 50 Cent does it and he's doing alright.

The corporate companies and marketing campaigns know this and they make a killing from it - they are laughing so hard they can't even make it to the bank.

The Thai's have followed our lead for years and are catching up fast but they are catching up with part of our pop culture which is going to spoil the beauty of what they already have. It will take away the reason we come here, and yet as much as myself and maybe some of you hate this, we want to have our cake and eat it because we are quite happy for Thailand to have supermarkets, satellite TV and farang food outlets.

If there is inteligent life in space they must be looking down upon us absolutely crying with laughter at how stupid and confused we are.

I don't for one minute blame them.

[Dutchy2]

People are still wrong.

You're signature nicely describes your posting

[ambassador]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

People are still wrong.

You're signature nicely describes your posting

It was just 'People Are Wrong' - and although I could think of many an appropriate signature, this just sums everything up, it sums up the history of mankind.

I added the 'still' because we are.

[boris]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

Putting aside the offensive and half-educated language, this view,albeit in a less boorish manner, is heard quite frequently.But it is misconceived.Since as a matter of historical record, the United States is indisputably the most powerful nation on earth and with a serious claim to being its greatest (who would be the rivals?), there would seem little point in brainwashing American children to this effect.

Obviously there are legitimate questions about the pervasiveness of American popular culture, current US foreign policy, and the neocon influence on the Bush administration.But I don't believe Americans are generally despised or hated, certainly not in Thailand.Consider the popularity round the world of Bill Clinton or the huge universal sympathy for America after 9/11 for example.Naive sometimes,certainly.However with all their faults since there must be a must be a most powerful nation, we should be grateful it is the democratic and generous spirited US (rather than Germany,France, Saudi Arabia,China,Japan etc) that currently rules the roost.

Incidentally I am not an American

[Stocky]

The all pervasiveness of the multinational corporations is probably more the point. The Macdonaldsization of the worlds high streets, the ubiquitous trainers and t-shirts that serve to emphasise the smallness of the planet.

The local culture that this process displaces is a loss to us all. But what do you do? You can't ban what people want, you might try but that's totalitarianism and that doesn't work, the Russians have their Macdonalds.

As for the comments on the US, I agree most people don't hate Americans, but I would suggest a majority despise the current administration.

[ambassador]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

Putting aside the offensive and half-educated language, this view,albeit in a less boorish manner, is heard quite frequently.But it is misconceived.Since as a matter of historical record, the United States is indisputably the most powerful nation on earth and with a serious claim to being its greatest (who would be the rivals?), there would seem little point in brainwashing American children to this effect.

Obviously there are legitimate questions about the pervasiveness of American popular culture, current US foreign policy, and the neocon influence on the Bush administration.But I don't believe Americans are generally despised or hated, certainly not in Thailand.Consider the popularity round the world of Bill Clinton or the huge universal sympathy for America after 9/11 for example.Naive sometimes,certainly.However with all their faults since there must be a must be a most powerful nation, we should be grateful it is the democratic and generous spirited US (rather than Germany,France, Saudi Arabia,China,Japan etc) that currently rules the roost.

Incidentally I am not an American

You have made a good point, though the acute bitterness which opens it did lead me to believe you were an American... Slightly hypocritical also if you take the time to re-read your post.

I admit 'brainwashing' should have been replaced with 'drummed into them from an early age', and when I say hate and despise, I didn't say that everybody hates and despises them, I was pointing out that they probably are the most hated country on earth and shouldn't need to say it again.

Is there any other country that to a lesser or higher degree universally pisses people off more?

As for the McDonaldization of the world and the fact there is a demand for it, it doesn't nescessarily make it right.

The majority of human beings - whatever nationality, are misinformed, stupid and lazy and it is in our nature to destroy ourselves anyway, be it in combat, by smoking and drinking or eating the mass produced faeces that is McDonalds.

People didn't demand McDonalds before it existed and I doubt there would be a higher majority shedding tears if all branches were suddenly to vanish.

Incedentally - I don't hate Americans though it could be said that I strongly dislike Americanisation and the culture of America.

I am British and I believe we are not much better.

[marquess]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

Here Here!!

I am British too, I do believe we are no much better, but not as bad

[Stocky]

As for the McDonaldization of the world and the fact there is a demand for it, it doesn't nescessarily make it right.

The majority of human beings - whatever nationality, are misinformed, stupid and lazy and it is in our nature to destroy ourselves anyway, be it in combat, by smoking and drinking or eating the mass produced faeces that is McDonalds.

People didn't demand McDonalds before it existed and I doubt there would be a higher majority shedding tears if all branches were suddenly to vanish.

I wasn't implying that it was right, I was just pointing out that in a free world people are allowed choice, if there is a demand for Macdonalds, Macdonalds will happily supply that demand.

The only way to combat the Macdonalsization is through education, so that people better appreciate their own culture before it is subsumed.

[boris]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

Putting aside the offensive and half-educated language, this view,albeit in a less boorish manner, is heard quite frequently.But it is misconceived.Since as a matter of historical record, the United States is indisputably the most powerful nation on earth and with a serious claim to being its greatest (who would be the rivals?), there would seem little point in brainwashing American children to this effect.

Obviously there are legitimate questions about the pervasiveness of American popular culture, current US foreign policy, and the neocon influence on the Bush administration.But I don't believe Americans are generally despised or hated, certainly not in Thailand.Consider the popularity round the world of Bill Clinton or the huge universal sympathy for America after 9/11 for example.Naive sometimes,certainly.However with all their faults since there must be a must be a most powerful nation, we should be grateful it is the democratic and generous spirited US (rather than Germany,France, Saudi Arabia,China,Japan etc) that currently rules the roost.

Incidentally I am not an American

You have made a good point, though the acute bitterness which opens it did lead me to believe you were an American... Slightly hypocritical also if you take the time to re-read your post.

I admit 'brainwashing' should have been replaced with 'drummed into them from an early age', and when I say hate and despise, I didn't say that everybody hates and despises them, I was pointing out that they probably are the most hated country on earth and shouldn't need to say it again.

Is there any other country that to a lesser or higher degree universally pisses people off more?

As for the McDonaldization of the world and the fact there is a demand for it, it doesn't nescessarily make it right.

The majority of human beings - whatever nationality, are misinformed, stupid and lazy and it is in our nature to destroy ourselves anyway, be it in combat, by smoking and drinking or eating the mass produced faeces that is McDonalds.

People didn't demand McDonalds before it existed and I doubt there would be a higher majority shedding tears if all branches were suddenly to vanish.

Incedentally - I don't hate Americans though it could be said that I strongly dislike Americanisation and the culture of America.

I am British and I believe we are not much better.

You should not confuse what you descibe as acute bitterness with a distaste for bad manners and the intellectually half baked.In any case with respect your response suggests your thought processes are not entirely clear.To take only a few examples:

1.I think it is normal in most countries for children to be made aware of their country's culture and achievements.If it's acceptable in Thailand and elsewhere, why not in the U.S?

2.Difficult to prove but I doubt whether the U.S is the most "hated" country.I know that Al-Quaeda and others of this ilk loathe the US and all that it stands for.However it's difficult to understand exactly what you mean here because the use of language is so loose.

3.You have no right to speak for anyone but yourself.From my point of view there are several countries (by which I mean of course governments) that are morally defective, Myanmar to name but one.The US is not on this list, nor would anyone with any historical awareness put it there.

4.I don't like Mc Donalds either and therefore never go there.Of course there are some very unattractive aspects of globalisation and since the US is currently top dog, the American manifestations are very noticeable.

5.Your comment that the British are not much better is meaningless unless you can clarify.

[Flummoxed]

I love Americans... it's their unwavering arrogance that I despise, particularly in the younger, less travelled Americans.

Some of my best friends are American but I hasten to add they are all middle aged and seasoned travellers. It is often the American youth that have an utter lack of understanding of the disdain with which the rest of the world view them.

If only they could emulate the local culture of the land they visit, rather than try to dominate.

Incidentally, I'm an Englishman... and I consider some of the worse people overseas to be the English. God help us when British lager louts hit the streets of Thailand in large numbers. I'm all for raising the airfares to keep them away... and in saying that, I've unwittingly proved my own point. The British and most of the rest of the world, are able to criticise themselves (the French being a notable exception), whereas Americans think their template for life is the one that works and can work for EVERY country.

I don't like to see Western logo's and ideals in Thailand and it upsets me to see young women with these naughty T-shirts. Ironically, they usually don't even understand the text on the T-shirts. I saw a woman in Surin with a T-shirt that said '<deleted> OFF W*ANKERS'. I told her what it meant. She was awefully shocked.

However, it's their country and they can do what they like with it I guess.

[Darknight]

I love Americans... it's their unwavering arrogance that I despise, particularly in the younger, less travelled Americans.

Some of my best friends are American but I hasten to add they are all middle aged and seasoned travellers. It is often the American youth that have an utter lack of understanding of the disdain with which the rest of the world view them.

American are just brainless farmers untill they've been around the world a few times. No culture, no ethiquette, just the I'm from the -biggest and the best- arrogant mentality.

I've worked with them for more then 15 years already, i know it to be a fact throughout their social classes. by traveling, i mean staying in a country more then 5 days hopping from one hilton to another, they can find some wisdom indeed.

Actually i find the THAI save face mentality pretty much like the american mentality.

We can be complete idiots but as long as we project this super image of ourselves it is ok, it doesn't have to reflect the Thruth at all.

[TRIPxCORE]

American are just brainless farmers untill they've been around the world a few times. No culture, no ethiquette, just the I'm from the -biggest and the best- arrogant mentality.

I've worked with them for more then 15 years already, i know it to be a fact throughout their social classes. by traveling, i mean staying in a country more then 5 days hopping from one hilton to another, they can find some wisdom indeed.

Actually i find the THAI save face mentality pretty much like the american mentality.

We can be complete idiots but as long as we project this super image of ourselves it is ok, it doesn't have to reflect the Thruth at all.

Now wait just a second here. To make such a broad statement as this one is irresponsible. As an American, I take offense to this. While its true that A MAJORITY of Americans do have a holier-than-thou attitude and think nothing exists outside of our borders, and I have stated that on this board before, you can not imply that we all do. I certainly do not act in such a way and have met a few others but not many. Please dont generalise to such a large degree.

The original posting in this thread is partly true that Thailand is adopting much of Americas culture, but it also take on much of Englands and other Western countries. Its not only Starbucks, Mcdonalds, and Burger King invading LOS. Its also Tesco-Lotus, Carrefour, etc etc. You all know this is true. Nevertheless, I dont like it either and wish it wouldnt happen on such a large scale but the wave of the future is globalisation and we can do nothing about it. Thailand has and will continue to lose much of its charm because of this dreaded process much to our dismay.

[stroll]

Without the westernisation, you wouldn't be able to eat in Thailand, Gentleman Scamp.

And it is hard to resist the glammer and lure of American 'culture', until the other side of the coin manifests shortly after. This is why some Asian government have taken steps against globalisation and attempt to protect their traditional values.

[p1p]

Methinks this thread ought to be in the Bear Pit, not here. However I'll leave it up to admin to decide.

I'm afraid our dear US cousins make themselves highly unpopular around the world because of their extreme cultural imperialism and their complete inability to see the others' point of view. (American culture: this is one of the greatest oxymorons to bless the English language.)

Like to carry on, but I'm afraid I would exceed my brief.

[Stocky]

It's worth noting that America's system of government is a homage to the first Roman Republic with its Senate housed in a neo-classical building on top of a Capitol Hill.

As referenced in another thread the Monty Python film 'Life of Brian' and the Peoples Movement for the Liberation of Judea come to mind:

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

The US is certainly the most powerful nation on the planet, but greatness is more subjective, I would suggest in terms of their lasting legacy the Romans where the greatest.

Bringing it back to Thailand, the proliferation of Thai restaurants in the UK and Europe (no doubt North America too) is an example of the successful exportation of Thai culture. Though I freely admit that the food you get in Thai restaurants abroad is often far from authentic.

[camerata]

The Thai's have followed our lead for years and are catching up fast but they are catching up with part of our pop culture which is going to spoil the beauty of what they already have.

The beauty of what they have? Thais are brought up on a force-fed diet of moronic soap operas and game shows. Thailand should export its soaps in retaliation for globalization.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Something that is worth noting is that most American's you meet in Thailand who live here as expats are very nice, decent, open minded Americans who are wise enough to adapt to others and who are emancipated from the 96%* of their cousins back home who have never strayed outside.

I have a lot of time for them and even they are pissed off at aspects of their own culture in the same way that football hooligans and other British <deleted> do nothing to make me proud.

[stroll]

The Thai's have followed our lead for years and are catching up fast but they are catching up with part of our pop culture which is going to spoil the beauty of what they already have.

The beauty of what they have? Thais are brought up on a force-fed diet of moronic soap operas and game shows. Thailand should export its soaps in retaliation for globalization.

The soap operas and game shows are a poor copy of the American ones, what you say merely supports the point already made.

[Padkapow Guy]

Westernisation may well be the cancer of Thailand but it's Americanisation that is the cancer of the west.

The poor Yanks are brainwashed from birth into believing they are the greatest, most powerful nation on earth, only to grow up, venture outside of the U.S. and realise that they are probably the most hated and despised nation on earth.

Putting aside the offensive and half-educated language, this view,albeit in a less boorish manner, is heard quite frequently.But it is misconceived.Since as a matter of historical record, the United States is indisputably the most powerful nation on earth and with a serious claim to being its greatest (who would be the rivals?), there would seem little point in brainwashing American children to this effect.

Obviously there are legitimate questions about the pervasiveness of American popular culture, current US foreign policy, and the neocon influence on the Bush administration.But I don't believe Americans are generally despised or hated, certainly not in Thailand.Consider the popularity round the world of Bill Clinton or the huge universal sympathy for America after 9/11 for example.Naive sometimes,certainly.However with all their faults since there must be a must be a most powerful nation, we should be grateful it is the democratic and generous spirited US (rather than Germany,France, Saudi Arabia,China,Japan etc) that currently rules the roost.

Incidentally I am not an American

You have made a good point, though the acute bitterness which opens it did lead me to believe you were an American... Slightly hypocritical also if you take the time to re-read your post.

I admit 'brainwashing' should have been replaced with 'drummed into them from an early age', and when I say hate and despise, I didn't say that everybody hates and despises them, I was pointing out that they probably are the most hated country on earth and shouldn't need to say it again.

Is there any other country that to a lesser or higher degree universally pisses people off more?

As for the McDonaldization of the world and the fact there is a demand for it, it doesn't nescessarily make it right.

The majority of human beings - whatever nationality, are misinformed, stupid and lazy and it is in our nature to destroy ourselves anyway, be it in combat, by smoking and drinking or eating the mass produced faeces that is McDonalds.

People didn't demand McDonalds before it existed and I doubt there would be a higher majority shedding tears if all branches were suddenly to vanish.

Incedentally - I don't hate Americans though it could be said that I strongly dislike Americanisation and the culture of America.

I am British and I believe we are not much better.

Why is it that people from just about every country in the world wants to come to the U.S. . They sneak across the border or over stay visa's, millions of them. Can all these people be wrong.The thai people are famous for over staying their visa's hopeing to find a way to stay in America.

I here about how everyone hates America and it's people. I blame the media on this. They only show you the demonstrations and they love to show the burning of the flag. But the truth is most people like americans, it just not news worthy for prime time tv.

My son in law(1/2 thai) just got back from Iraq. I asked him, is it not frustrating trying to help people who hate you. His response was that there are more people there who like and want the americans in Iraq than want them out. He told me the news does not show the smiles on the peoples faces when the have a hospital built for them or their water and electricty is turned on. The world does not want to see a kid with a smile on his face. They can see that everyday in the U.S. and other countries. They would rather show a kid injured from a car bomb.

I hate to think what the world would be like if it wasn't for westernisation. Think of some of the leaders. Hitler, Pol Pot and Sadam. I doubt you would be enjoying your freedom to post in these types of forums or even be allowed to travel to Thailand.

I am sure there are going to be people who disagree, with this brainwashed yank. so flame on.

[Stocky]

I here about how everyone hates America and it's people. I blame the media on this. They only show you the demonstrations and they love to show the burning of the flag. But the truth is most people like americans, it just not news worthy for prime time tv.

My son in law(1/2 thai) just got back from Iraq. I asked him, is it not frustrating trying to help people who hate you. His response was that there are more people there who like and want the americans in Iraq than want them out. He told me the news does not show the smiles on the peoples faces when the have a hospital built for them or their water and electricty is turned on. The world does not want to see a kid with a smile on his face. They can see that everyday in the U.S. and other countries. They would rather show a kid injured from a car bomb.

I agree with you, most people don't hate Americans, but I would suggest there is a strong dislike of the current administration. That tends to flavour the discussion.

As for the Media, we all know that bad or sordid news sells papers, pictures of happy kids don't.

Just look at the pictures of dead bodies they show on the TV news or newspapers in Thailand.

[Khun ?]

Sounds like a bunch of losers who are pissed because they could not make it back home. Born on a rock and think like it. One good way to see how your own country fairs is by looking at how many have fled. Then again Thailand seems to be more tolerable to losers than western countries. These are the same people that cry about everything in thailand is not up to the standards of western countries

and lucky they are not because it would be just another place for them to get weeded out and be a failure again. Keep moving someday there will be a cave

that time does not catch up so quickly.

[Stocky]

Sounds like a bunch of losers who are pissed because they could not make it back home. Born on a rock and think like it. One good way to see how your own country fairs is by looking at how many have fled. Then again Thailand seems to be more tolerable to losers than western countries. These are the same people that cry about everything in thailand is not up to the standards of western countries

and lucky they are not because it would be just another place for them to get weeded out and be a failure again. Keep moving someday there will be a cave

that time does not catch up so quickly.

Khun ??

[Mai Krap]

Why is it that anyone on this forum who refers to himself as a gentleman always proves that he is less than?

The westernization of Thailand and its ruin of the perfect society... This is a joke at best and at worst the most igonorant eliteist idealism fantisized be the many falang who run about this country as selfimposed dogooder mini dictaters who yearn to have their own pulpit to corect the masses as to why their idealism is the WAY. "All pigs are eqaul some are just more eqaul than others"

By ruining this country do you refer to bringing a end of slavery because this was certainly a western ideal and eventualy promoting democracy in this country, "Granted it is Thailands version of democracy". Even the great England had to learn democracy from United States. Or do you refer to the bad idea of western medicine. Most of the people in thailand who who wear stupid t-shirts are just glad to have a shirt and dont care what they say, Most of these were ones that could not be sold in another country like my favorite "lovers Panday" which just dosent make any sense but has a cute picture.

And for the ambassodors refereference to brainwashing and then watering down his words alittle... He doesnt sound like a person who was educated in England with all the brainwashing they do to kids as to why they are the greatist nation in the world and so much smarter than everyone else and even give them the arragance to have english teachers wasting the time of students by trying to teach them a proper britesh accent. The country even has gone as far as naming itsself Great...The mythe of the unpopular American as told in britesh pubs around the the globe,,, Have you ever heard the term "KEE NEOW" the term thais say when brits exit.... I remember my first trip to Pattaya and the cab driver saying "India noo goood,Britess noo goood,German no goood, American dee dee dee" I didnt say it he did.

[stroll]

"I remember my first trip to Pattaya and the cab driver saying "India noo goood,Britess noo goood,German no goood, American dee dee dee" I didnt say it he did."

He said it to get a tip, not because America is so great in his opinion, dimwit!

Anyway, I exit from this thread, can't find anything worth further discussion any more.

[Khun ?]

As said many times before. you can take the girl out of the bar but you cannot take the rock for brains out of some.

[Mai Krap]

Dimwit the guy who exited the cab who was brit just pulled out a bunch of change paying him to the exact baht on the meter on a hundred and somthing cab fair and he was clearly aggrevated as this has happened to him many times,,, The American term is getting STIFFED... We clearly are a nice people with lots of airplanes and big guns to back up our politeness........

[davethailand]

Dimwit the guy who exited the cab who was brit just pulled out a bunch of change paying him to the exact baht on the meter on a hundred and somthing cab fair and he was clearly aggrevated as this has happened to him many times,,, The American term is getting STIFFED... We clearly are a nice people with lots of airplanes and big guns to back up our politeness........

Wait a minute!

We clearly are a nice people

Who's says?

Some maybe, but there is an awful amount of arrogance ie- buy this coz its american or drive that coz its american, especially concerning musicians in thailand, which quite frankly is bull****, I'm a brit living in thailand, I have some US friends but as far as the greatness of the good old US of A is concerned, size is'nt everything.

A lovely country with an awful lot of dickheads. (before you shoot me down, england also is full of dickheads).

As for the statement about having big guns to back it up, that is probably the attitude that pisses people off about america.

[otherstuff1957]

I normally don't post to discussions like this one, but here goes:

Yes, it is a shame to see a traditional culture become Westernized, but isn't it a bit patronizing to tell people what they can wear, eat or how they can live? Yes, it is distressing to see the world become homogenized, but is it fair to tell people that they should live as living cultural musuem exhibits? The Thais will adopt or reject western ideas and fashions as they see fit. We can only applaud or deplore their choices.

As for America Bashing, well, it's fun and easy, and there are some valid points to be made. From my personal experience I'd say that most people can separate their feelings for the current Administration from their feelings for individual Americans.

Like many people, including many Americans, I find the paranoia, isolationism and general attitude of the current administration to be quite disturbing. Somewhere, probably in some small town in Pakistan, OBL is amazed and delighted at how one attack managed to germinate such a sea change in American policies and in the character of the American people. The US governments' reaction to the attack on 9/11 has been to start to dismantle the Bill or Rights and to subtily turn the US into a computerized police state. Quite frankly, we are doing more damage to ourselves than we are to Al Queda. Just once, I'd like to see the US Government say "We're just going to go on with our lives and not live in fear", but instead they keep on passing more and more rules and regulations in the name of "Homeland Security".

The America that is criticized so widely is not recognizable as the country that I grew up in.

Have said all of that, the US is still a pretty good country, with pretty good people. It just could be a lot better.

[davethailand]

I will add that i've only been to the US once and i loved it and my dream in later years is too see alot more of it.

as for my comment"buy this coz its american or drive that coz its american, especially concerning musicians in thailand, " I also can't stand it when english people winge and speak like crap to the thai's when they don't understand what beans on toast or tomato sauce means.

love

davethailand nice englishman