Mr Bun Please Step Foreward

[lampard10]

Can anyone give me some tips here. My home made bread is getting very well known, and loved, but I still have one tiny problem. When I bake the white bread, it is nice and white when it leaves the oven, but when it cools down, it turns slightly brown. I think this might be the bread improver, or the wrong type of yeast, or even maybe too much yeast. Any ideas please.

p.s. The brown/white bread is still gorgeous for toast and sandwiches.

[LtLOS]

I can't say I've ever seen my loaves change color, but I would try and adjust your formula to eliminate the dough improver....is there a reason your using it?....low gluten flour perhaps? I played with an improver a long time ago and was never happy with the results. Normally these are used to cut ingredient costs by allowing you to use very low gluten flours, they also contain some ingredients that act as feed for yeast, so you can use less yeast.

[thaigerd]

Can anyone give me some tips here. My home made bread is getting very well known, and loved, but I still have one tiny problem. When I bake the white bread, it is nice and white when it leaves the oven, but when it cools down, it turns slightly brown. I think this might be the bread improver, or the wrong type of yeast, or even maybe too much yeast. Any ideas please.

p.s. The brown/white bread is still gorgeous for toast and sandwiches.

Need to know your recipe for finding a solution.

Gerd

[farangconnection]

I can't say I've ever seen my loaves change color, but I would try and adjust your formula to eliminate the dough improver....is there a reason your using it?....low gluten flour perhaps? I played with an improver a long time ago and was never happy with the results. Normally these are used to cut ingredient costs by allowing you to use very low gluten flours, they also contain some ingredients that act as feed for yeast, so you can use less yeast.

I use the 25kg sacks of bread flour from Makro. I know it's not top quality, because when I use the Hard bread flour ( Australian) from Friendship, the bread rises and the loaves are perfect, without improver.

I use 8 desert spoons of yeast for 3kg's of flour. I let the yeast ferment after mixing it with a little sugar and adding hot water. 800ml Boiling and 1,000ml cold, wait until it starts frothing, then add oil and salt. I then gradually add the flour. Knead for ten minutes then leave for half an hour. I put it in the tins and wait for 1 1/2-2hrs. Bake in 200-220 oven for 1/2 hour. I do seem to get mixed results though.

And Gerd..........I take it you have the same problem?

[thaigerd]

I can't say I've ever seen my loaves change color, but I would try and adjust your formula to eliminate the dough improver....is there a reason your using it?....low gluten flour perhaps? I played with an improver a long time ago and was never happy with the results. Normally these are used to cut ingredient costs by allowing you to use very low gluten flours, they also contain some ingredients that act as feed for yeast, so you can use less yeast.

I use the 25kg sacks of bread flour from Makro. I know it's not top quality, because when I use the Hard bread flour ( Australian) from Friendship, the bread rises and the loaves are perfect, without improver.

I use 8 desert spoons of yeast for 3kg's of flour. I let the yeast ferment after mixing it with a little sugar and adding hot water. 800ml Boiling and 1,000ml cold, wait until it starts frothing, then add oil and salt. I then gradually add the flour. Knead for ten minutes then leave for half an hour. I put it in the tins and wait for 1 1/2-2hrs. Bake in 200-220 oven for 1/2 hour. I do seem to get mixed results though.

And Gerd..........I take it you have the same problem?

No, I am glad not having these problems.

I would suggest followingchanges:

1% of yeast according to the whole amount of your recipe(use a scale not dessert spoons please)

Do not use hot/boiling water!!!

Use a good quality flour, MAKRO's can be a bit old and not fresh enough.

Your amount of 1800ml water is perfect, you could change to 50%(900ml)water and 50% milk instead, give it a try.

Cover your tins when filled with the dough with plastic sheets, spray some water on top to avoid skinning.

Start baking with a high temperature and some steam(or throw some icecubes in your oven), than after about 10 minutes decrease the temperature to 180 degrees.

I tink your mixed results comes from your Makro flour.

Good baking!!!

Gerd

[LtLOS]

Can only add the following and reinforce:

You need to weigh your ingredients, use bakers percentages...you can look them up on the net, they will help you with your formulas and to scale your formulas to larger quantities. Use the better flour and forget the improver. And finally according to your description you say your adding the salt to the yeast components with no flour. Salt can kill yeast so I'd suggest you start mixing a sponge with about half the flour all the other ingredients except the salt, then add the salt later to insure the full yeast component is not exposed to pure salt. If you don't want to use a sponge, at least insure you add the salt after some quantity of flour is added, not directly to the yeast component.

[thaigerd]

Can only add the following and reinforce:

You need to weigh your ingredients, use bakers percentages...you can look them up on the net, they will help you with your formulas and to scale your formulas to larger quantities. Use the better flour and forget the improver. And finally according to your description you say your adding the salt to the yeast components with no flour. Salt can kill yeast so I'd suggest you start mixing a sponge with about half the flour all the other ingredients except the salt, then add the salt later to insure the full yeast component is not exposed to pure salt. If you don't want to use a sponge, at least insure you add the salt after some quantity of flour is added, not directly to the yeast component.

Agree with your comments

Gerd

Taking the missus now for a nice cold pint of Heineken to a pub after reading all that dry bread stuff, thx for giving me an excuse.

Gerd

[farangconnection]

Can only add the following and reinforce:

You need to weigh your ingredients, use bakers percentages...you can look them up on the net, they will help you with your formulas and to scale your formulas to larger quantities. Use the better flour and forget the improver. And finally according to your description you say your adding the salt to the yeast components with no flour. Salt can kill yeast so I'd suggest you start mixing a sponge with about half the flour all the other ingredients except the salt, then add the salt later to insure the full yeast component is not exposed to pure salt. If you don't want to use a sponge, at least insure you add the salt after some quantity of flour is added, not directly to the yeast component.

I pulled this from the net

Artisan bakers bread has about one pound of yeast for every thousand pounds of flour. If you want to make it in a smaller batch that will fit in your oven you will have to reduce the recipe. If you think about it in percentages there is 1 tenth of a percent yeast to one hundred percent flour. Thinking first about the percentage and then later figuring out the pounds of the ingredients for the particular batch you are making will give you a whole new understanding of bread.

A typical french bread formula looks like this:

flour 100%

water 65%

salt 2%

yeast 2%

total 169%

When I was at school 1 to a thousand is 1/2%, not 2% as it says in the next paragraph. Can you explain please.

Do I use 6g of yeast for 3kg's of flour or 60gms?

[LtLOS]

I think the best way is to look at the following web site:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/58862.html

from there click on the bakers percentages and check out the pdf file.

The best way to understand bakers percentages is to think of other ingredients as a percent of the total weight of the flour. See the following:

A very basic formula:

APF 500g 100%

Water 360g 72% (.72 * 500)=360 (example)

Salt 10g 2%

Yeast 10g 2%

Total dough 880g

Does this help?

[LtLOS]

The simple answer is 6 grams (3000 *.002) where 3000 is the quantity of flour in grams and the multiplier is the decimal equivalent of 2%.

[LtLOS]

Sorry, did not get back in time to edit the above, should be 3000 * 0.02 or 60 grams!

[farangconnection]

Sorry, did not get back in time to edit the above, should be 3000 * 0.02 or 60 grams!

Thanks..................................as you can see, it's very ambiguous

[farangconnection]

Thanks for your help and input fellas but right now I am now in tears......................................I followed every instruction to the word. Percentages right, temp right,amounts right. Everything just as it should be. Now for the first time since I started baking I have had to bin everything. My mixture did not rise or change size at all. I left it for an hour, then put it all in baking tins, nothing. Left it for two hours, not even a tiny rise. 20 loaves in the bin. Sorry lads, but my way is best. Great bread every time, albeit a tad brown. So I must start all over again now. My customers will have to wait today. Cheers anyway. Come over and try my bread sometime.

Four hours later. I have just completed my second batch today. I compromised. Half my way, half by the manual. Wow. My bread rose like the Man on Easter Monday. I thought here we GOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Used the greasy film method instead of my usual wet cloths. Great big mounds of bread, waiting to be baked. Put them in the oven.................................oh no. They went as flat as pancakes. Well, level with the top of the tin, with the excess spilling over the sides. Good bread, but like bloody 'ouse bricks!

Oh, by the way...............................I did some Brown Bread as well. This time by the book as well. Just put 1/5 of wholemeal flour in with ordinary flour. Yeh, you guessed it.............................................the <deleted>' stuff turned out white.

[Jet Gorgon]

Hey, Lampy, where does it turn brown? Just curious; I'm not a bread maker. My aunty made abfab bread on the farm, but that doesn't help you any. Sorry to hear you had to bin all that bread, FC Pickles. Maybe its different conditions -- humidity, maybe even sea level. Had to change recipes/temps when I lived near the Rockies.

Edited June 29, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[farangconnection]

Hey, Lampy, where does it turn brown? Just curious; I'm not a bread maker. My aunty made abfab bread on the farm, but that doesn't help you any. Sorry to hear you had to bin all that bread, FC Pickles. Maybe its different conditions -- humidity, maybe even sea level. Had to change recipes/temps when I lived near the Rockies.

No, my bread is normally really good, it's probably my fault though. As it did not say anything in the new recipe about leaving the yeast in warm water, till it foams, to start off the process, I did not bother. The second lot, I started with a basic formula mixture, and then added more yeast until it started foaming. I think with the second lot, the dough was too runny. The second lot was lovely bread, just a bit flat. It's OK though, when my bread comes out flat, I call it Continental bread. I will continue using 50/50 whole wheat flour/mix and white flour, or 40% whole wheat flour, 40% whole wheat and 20% white for my brown bread though. The Scandinavians and the Germans love it.

I do have my own tip for wannabe bread makers though. If you buy the Hovis Granery Bread ready mix,two pkts, and add 500gm's whole wheat flour, 500gm's white flour and 500gm's whole wheat mix, it makes absolutely loverly whole grain bread.

[farangconnection]

Hey, Lampy, where does it turn brown? Just curious; I'm not a bread maker. My aunty made abfab bread on the farm, but that doesn't help you any. Sorry to hear you had to bin all that bread, FC Pickles. Maybe its different conditions -- humidity, maybe even sea level. Had to change recipes/temps when I lived near the Rockies.

No, my bread is normally really good, it's probably my fault though. As it did not say anything in the new recipe about leaving the yeast in warm water, till it foams, to start off the process, I did not bother. The second lot, I started with a basic formula mixture, and then added more yeast until it started foaming. I think with the second lot, the dough was too runny. The second lot was lovely bread, just a bit flat. It's OK though, when my bread comes out flat, I call it Continental bread. I will continue using 50/50 whole wheat flour/mix and white flour, or 40% whole wheat flour, 40% whole wheat and 20% white for my brown bread though. The Scandinavians and the Germans love it.

I do have my own tip for wannabe bread makers though. If you buy the Hovis Granery Bread ready mix,two pkts, and add 500gm's whole wheat flour, 500gm's white flour and 500gm's whole wheat mix, it makes absolutely loverly whole grain bread.

Update, update. Made perfect bread today. Got shot of the Makro Bread flour, and bought some general purpose wheat flour from a flour shop. Thanks guys. Makro flour sucks.

[thaigerd]

Hey, Lampy, where does it turn brown? Just curious; I'm not a bread maker. My aunty made abfab bread on the farm, but that doesn't help you any. Sorry to hear you had to bin all that bread, FC Pickles. Maybe its different conditions -- humidity, maybe even sea level. Had to change recipes/temps when I lived near the Rockies.

No, my bread is normally really good, it's probably my fault though. As it did not say anything in the new recipe about leaving the yeast in warm water, till it foams, to start off the process, I did not bother. The second lot, I started with a basic formula mixture, and then added more yeast until it started foaming. I think with the second lot, the dough was too runny. The second lot was lovely bread, just a bit flat. It's OK though, when my bread comes out flat, I call it Continental bread. I will continue using 50/50 whole wheat flour/mix and white flour, or 40% whole wheat flour, 40% whole wheat and 20% white for my brown bread though. The Scandinavians and the Germans love it.

I do have my own tip for wannabe bread makers though. If you buy the Hovis Granery Bread ready mix,two pkts, and add 500gm's whole wheat flour, 500gm's white flour and 500gm's whole wheat mix, it makes absolutely loverly whole grain bread.

Update, update. Made perfect bread today. Got shot of the Makro Bread flour, and bought some general purpose wheat flour from a flour shop. Thanks guys. Makro flour sucks.

You see, I've told you this before in my first repy!

But glad to see a happy baker now

Gerd