12 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

They don't need to drink coke though. Or use playground equipment. Or ride bicycles. All cause death. 

 

Besides, nearly a thousand children drown each year. Surely that is enough to ban all swimming pools, both public and private.  That is far more than were killed by AR15s. 

You don’t seem to understand the difference between accidental deaths and murder.

 

Or perhaps you do but simply don’t care.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

14 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, and.... 

 

they are used in 3% of firearms homicides.  Of course they are more lethal than handguns when used.  ALL rifles and shotguns display these characteristics. They are not exclusive to what people call "assault weapons". 

 

"Assault weapons" use the same ammunition as regular hunting rifles and semi auto rifles.  Unless you want to ban EVERY firearm that shoots a .223 round or 5.56mm or higher, this is a pointless argument to make. 

The weapon of choice in mass shootings is?

Let’s start there and skip the diversionary ‘all guns’ nonsense.

 

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The weapon of choice in mass shootings is?

Let’s start there and skip the diversionary ‘all guns’ nonsense.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/12/mass-shootings-weapons-legal-what-to-know/7814081001/

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Well obviously a ban on manufacture would create a ban on sale, transfer, etc.  The key point is that anything existing before the so-called ban was implemented was not included. So it was a guaranteed exercise in futility.  And also why there was little discernable impact.  

 

As for Old Joe, he sounds clueless. He said " It (meaning semi automatic weapons) has no, no social redeeming value, zero, none. Not a single solitary rationale for it except profits for gun manufacturers". Guess he is forgetting law enforcement, the military, hunting, sport shooting, varmint removal, etc.  Guarantee that he is being guarded by men carrying semi automatic firearms, as well as fully automatic.  

 

And people wonder why so-called "gun nuts" are paranoid. When the president is talking so casually about taking away your legally purchased property and telling you that you have no social redeeming value, of course there will be pushback.  Rifles of all kinds ARE NOT THE PROBLEM in America.  

Another bout of deflection from you and ignoring the details, apparently not obvious enough to achknowledge.

 

The bill banned more than a dozen specific firearms and certain features on guns, but because there are so many modifications that can be made on weapons and the fact that it did not outright ban all semiautomatic weapons, many such guns continued to be legally used.

 

But I do agree, gun nuts are paranoid. You have to be paranoid to own assault weapons as a measure of self defense. 

5 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Another bout of deflection from you and ignoring the details, apparently not obvious enough to achknowledge.

 

The bill banned more than a dozen specific firearms and certain features on guns, but because there are so many modifications that can be made on weapons and the fact that it did not outright ban all semiautomatic weapons, many such guns continued to be legally used.

 

But I do agree, gun nuts are paranoid. You have to be paranoid to own assault weapons as a measure of self defense. 

Especially given the statistically increased potential for gun homicides occurring in the home with their own guns. Or, famously, parents or friends actually giving their children guns.

 

A study published in January by a leading non-profit organization that focuses on gun violence prevention found that there is a direct correlation in states with weaker gun laws and higher rates of gun deaths, including homicides, suicides and accidental killings.

The study by Everytown for Gun Safety determined that California had the strongest gun laws in the country. Hawaii topped the list with the lowest rate of gun deaths in the country while Mississippi led the country with both the weakest gun laws and highest rate of gun deaths.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/20/us/everytown-weak-gun-laws-high-gun-deaths-study/index.html

 

Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows

 

https://time.com/6183881/gun-ownership-risks-at-home/

Edited November 26, 20223 yr by ozimoron

14 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Most hunting weapons are more powerful than handguns.  This is meaningless.

 

Myth

Assault weapons are actually a thing that you can ban.

 

Fact

There is no such thing as an assault weapon and most features can be found on weapons that would never be categorised as an "assault weapon".

 

It's just political hot air.

 

If you want to limit certain specific things, like calibre, rifle length, magazine capacity, etc., you will better be able to put an argument together.  But people like to say "assault weapon" because it triggers an emotional response.

Me suspects they / he is counting on the ignorance of the masses to swallow the assault  weapons narrative !

To many laws on the books for the criminal and the mentally disturbed to follow.

Unfortunately nobody addressing this. Imop

 

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

Me suspects they / he is counting on the ignorance of the masses to swallow the assault  weapons narrative !

To many laws on the books for the criminal and the mentally disturbed to follow.

Unfortunately nobody addressing this. Imop

 

I just did. Do you read anything outside the echo chamber?

Edited November 26, 20223 yr by ozimoron

29 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/12/mass-shootings-weapons-legal-what-to-know/7814081001/

From your own article....

 

Although semi-automatic rifles have become more widely used over the past decade, handguns remain the most common type of weapon used in mass shootings, experts told USA TODAY. 

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The weapon of choice in mass shootings is?

Let’s start there and skip the diversionary ‘all guns’ nonsense.

 

From the article above..

 

Although semi-automatic rifles have become more widely used over the past decade, handguns remain the most common type of weapon used in mass shootings, experts told USA TODAY. 

 

I agree that the talk of "assault weapons" is diversionary. They are clearly not used in crime nearly as much as other weapons. 

Edited November 26, 20223 yr by Hanaguma

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Why is the solution to mass shootings banning weapons and not the root problem like mental illness?

It sounds a lot like some simply don't like guns and want them banned.  This means their arguments don't fully make sense and even if one is disproven, they simply search for another.

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You don’t seem to understand the difference between accidental deaths and murder.

 

Or perhaps you do but simply don’t care.

 

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand that all the above are legal products, and that not all deaths are murder.  Life has risk. The things you surround yourself with determine the risk of injury or death. Have a pool? Chance to drown. Have a gun? Chance to get shot. Have a car? Chance to have a fatal accident.  

 

37 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/12/mass-shootings-weapons-legal-what-to-know/7814081001/

Not suprising more mass shooters are turning to assualt rifles. Their sales are going through the roof.

 

Record 2.8 Million AR-15 And AK-Style Rifles Entered U.S. Circulation In 2020, Gun Group Says

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/07/20/record-28-million-ar-15-and-ak-style-rifles-entered-us-circulation-in-2020-gun-group-says/?sh=4a64916527ca

47 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You don’t seem to understand the difference between accidental deaths and murder.

Can you explain?  It seems like a dead child is a dead child, whether they drown or are shot.

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Can you explain?  It seems like a dead child is a dead child, whether they drown or are shot.

One was an accident and the other not (usually)?

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

One was an accident and the other not (usually)?

That doesn't add anything to the comment I was replying to. ????‍♂️

16 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

What's new.

 

They've been saying the same thing for 20 + years. 

And which political party has been blocking the move every time?

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

When you make a claim you must substantiate it or you are trolling and this case you are trolling. I read about this yesterday where it's claimed that most mass shootings are planned meticulously. All these links were obtained fro a simple google search which took me a single minute. You could have dispelled your own myth easily but chose to push this false right wing narrative instead.

 

Here is evidence that you a re wrong, now please produce up a credible source which supports your claim.

 

The reality is that people with mental illness account for a very small proportion of perpetrators of mass shootings in the U.S., says Ragy Girgis, MD, associate professor of clinical psychiatry in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry and the New York State Psychiatric Institute.

 

https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/mass-shootings-and-mental-illness-5

 

https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/dispelling-myth

 

Data from Columbia Mass Murder Database reveal psychosis and other serious psychiatric illness absent in the majority of perpetrators

 

https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/new-findings-columbia-mass-murder-database

 

U.S. popular and political discourse frequently applies the mental illness descriptor to white male shooters, but analysis of whiteness itself, or discussions of whiteness as a race or ethnicity, are usually omitted from published studies about U.S. mass shootings.37–39 By contrast, race and ethnicity often play a key role in accounts of mass shootings when the perpetrator is not white.

 

https://journals.lww.com/hrpjournal/fulltext/2021/01000/mental_illness,_mass_shootings,_and_the_future_of.6.aspx

Each time one uses the term "mass shootings" a definition should follow. When gun opponents talk of mass shootings it's not primarily street gun violence, it's school shootings and the like. 

 

Now all these links put the shootings together in one basket and dispel mental illness as a major cause. Even your links do say that mental illness plays a part. 

 

The below link says the handgun is the weapon of choice in "mass shootings" But again it doesn't separate the kind of shootings, much the same as saying mental health is a small percentage of shooters.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

 

 

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

Each time one uses the term "mass shootings" a definition should follow. When gun opponents talk of mass shootings it's not primarily street gun violence, it's school shootings and the like. 

 

Now all these links put the shootings together in one basket and dispel mental illness as a major cause. Even your links do say that mental illness plays a part. 

 

The below link says the handgun is the weapon of choice in "mass shootings" But again it doesn't separate the kind of shootings, much the same as saying mental health is a small percentage of shooters.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

 

 

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Nobody is in any doubt that a mass shooting consists of 4 or more victims.

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Nobody is in any doubt that a mass shooting consists of 4 or more victims.

Injured or killed. Some definitions call it 3 or more. With no separation between violence on the street and such as school shootings.

59 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And which political party has been blocking the move every time?

We all know but I don't want to really get into a political party discussion.

 

 

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Why is the solution to mass shootings banning weapons and not the root problem like mental illness?

 

But the solution to border problem is to combat so called root problem, huh.

How do you ban mental illness?

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Injured or killed. Some definitions call it 3 or more. With no separation between violence on the street and such as school shootings.

All stats use the US definition

 

The Gun Violence Archive, an online database of gun violence incidents in the U.S., defines mass shootings as incidents in which four or more people are shot, even if no one was killed (again excluding the shooters). Using this definition, 513 people died in these incidents in 2020.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

We all know but I don't want to really get into a political party discussion.

 

 

Majority of Americans want stricter gun laws including half of Republicans and a majority of Democrats and even a majority of those in gun-owning households. Yet the Republicans wouldn’t budge on gun control. It’s an obvious political party problem and fittingly a Republican Party’s betrayal to the general population for the sake of power. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/us/republicans-gun-control.html

“The idea we still allow semi-automatic weapons to be purchased is sick. Just sick,” Biden said on Thanksgiving Day. “I’m going to try to get rid of assault weapons.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-gun-violence-colorado-shootings-f85b4b9a59e3852868950d797f79a351?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_04

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

All stats use the US definition

 

The Gun Violence Archive, an online database of gun violence incidents in the U.S., defines mass shootings as incidents in which four or more people are shot, even if no one was killed (again excluding the shooters). Using this definition, 513 people died in these incidents in 2020.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%. The remainder of gun homicides and non-negligent manslaughters (36%) involved other kinds of firearms or those classified as “type not stated.”

 

This was from your link, "assault weapons" involved in 3% firearm murders.

 

 

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%. The remainder of gun homicides and non-negligent manslaughters (36%) involved other kinds of firearms or those classified as “type not stated.”

 

This was from your link, "assault weapons" involved in 3% firearm murders.

 

 

Read the thread, we been though all that already

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Read the thread, we been though all that already

So, we're agreed assault weapons aren't the problem.

June 2022

US Gallup poll: 

55%  would like to ban on the manufacture, possession and sale of semi-automatic guns, known as assault rifles.

44% no would not

1% no opinion

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

So, we're agreed assault weapons aren't the problem.

Yes they are in mass shootings read the thread not going to bother repeating multiple posts already discussing that with links

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes they are in mass shootings read the thread not going to bother repeating multiple posts already discussing that with links

They represent 3% of  mass shootings.