george Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Gays take on Novotel in club row Global campaign planned as hotel is accused of barring transvestites BANGKOK: -- Gay-rights advocates plan to launch a global boycott against a high-end Bangkok hotel after it barred a transvestite from its nightclub. Nikorn Arthit, president of Bangkok Rainbow Organi-sation, said yesterday that a campaign called "Novotel - No Homosexual" would soon be started through an online network of "third gender" groups. The campaign is to fight back against the Novotel Siam Square after it banned a transvestite from entering its Concept CM2 Club. "It is fine if you ban gays and transvestites, but you have to pay the price," Nikorn said. The controversy sprang to media attention when Sutthirat Simsiriwong, a transvestite who is a local brand manager for a French cosmetics firm, was told he could not enter the club last Friday. A cross-dressing Sutthirat said his ID card was checked by club staff. Once the staff found that the card identified him as "Mr", he was not allowed entry, even though he went there with a VIP guest of the club. "The staff said it is hotel policy to not allow katoey to enter," he claimed. The word "katoey" is loosely used in Thailand to describe cross-dressers and transgender people. The hotel, part of the Accor Group, yesterday issued a press statement signed by its executive general Michael Thomas denying the accusation. Though admitting that Sutthirat was barred from entry, Thomas said the refusal was not part of the club's entry policy and was not supported by its management. He said the club regularly supported the gay community by hosting Mardi Gras, gay beauty pageants and singing contests. "The unfortunate incident was an isolated instance of an error in judgement aris-ing from non-conformity of the official ID on the part of the door staff involved in the altercation with Mr Sutthirat," Thomas said. He did not say what the staff told Sutthirat. He said customer-service training for CM2 staff would be undertaken. He also said the process to check ID cards of the club's guests was for security reasons. Sutthirat yesterday flied a complaint to Human Rights Commissioner Naiyana Sup-apung, who said she would investigate the case. After his fate was publicised, many transvestites called Sutthirat and told him they had received similar treatment from CM2 staff. "If the hotel wants to ban katoey, it should show a clear sign and we would not go to be treated like this," he said. Nikorn believed the incident was based on the hotel's policy to ban katoey but claimed it was not brave enough to declare its policy publicly. He claimed a once-popular Silom nightclub was bankrupted within a month after putting up a sign reading "No homosexuals" on its door. He wants CM2 to get a taste of its own medicine. "The club is not a popular place for katoey, but don't forget that big numbers of gay tourists come to Thailand," he said. Nikorn said CM2 and other clubs probably did not realise the size of the gay market because many gay people cannot be recognised from their appearance. --The Nation 2007-06-28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisurely Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Of course gay people can't be recognised by appearance. Should they be expected to wear a pink triangle to sort them into sexuality. What nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgebkk Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I support the right of any bar to refuse service to anyone, at their discretion. This is standard procedure found throughout the world. There are stories of many a straight person accidentally walking into a gay bar and upon ordering a beer have been refused service. So, why should it be any different? Therefore, I support the ban that Novotel has instigated simply because they have the right to do so. And all you heterophobes out there can b!tch all you want. I've heard it all before, so don't waste your time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Okkkkk.... so the straight person accidentally walks into a gay bar and orders a beer... now, tell us, HOW did the bartender know he/she was straight in order to discriminate against him/her in this fashion? Interesting cul-de-sac you've wandered into... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I've been to that hotel before and there are the usual complement of gay & queeny staff- I can't really see the place (or any Bangkok hotel) as "anti-gay." I'm thinking there's probably more to this story, anyway- the vindictive attitude of the kathoey makes it seem like he might have put on more than just airs, and maybe there's some past history of trouble with this individual. In any case, I agree that bars should be free to refuse service at their own discretion, and at the risk of their own reputation. Whatever the reason for refusing admission, they've certainly run into a bit of trouble over it. It doesn't seem like this individual's problem would have received so much attention if he were just a run-of-the-mill kathoey; sounds more like a status fight in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Seems to be a bit of confusion between katoey and gay, and an assumption that the two are the same. I'm not quite sure why gays should be fighting for katoey rights. But then again, I always think it's strange that "Gay Pride" parades for the most part involve men dressed as katoeys, or in leathers, or in something fanciful, and very often very far removed from what gay men wear. Edited June 28, 2007 by samtam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgebkk Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Okkkkk.... so the straight person [blah, blah, blah]... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinthee Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I don't mean to bash Katoeys, but I have witnessed a few of them getting into trouble at several nightspots, Qbar, etc.. Not sure of the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Bar wins right to ban heterosexuals By Kathy Marks in Sydney Published: 29 May 2007 A gay bar in Melbourne has won the right to turn away straight patrons, so it can provide an environment in which gay men can express their sexuality without feeling threatened. The Peel Hotel applied for an exemption to equal opportunities legislation, saying its gay male clientele felt uncomfortable about the increasing numbers of straight people using the venue over the past year. Gay men were being "gawked at" as if they were exhibits in a zoo, the Peel's management said, and subjected to occasional abuse and violence. "If I can limit the number of heterosexuals entering the Peel, then that helps me keep the safe balance effectively," the pub's owner, Tom McFeely, said yesterday. Although the Peel welcomed everyone, he added, he wanted to offer a non-threatening environment for gay men. The atmosphere changed, Mr McFeely said, when large parties of straight men and women came in, often for stag or hen nights. He said there were more than 2,000 venues in Melbourne catering to heterosexuals, but his was the only one marketing itself predominantly to gay men. "Heterosexuals have other places to go to; my homosexuals do not," he said. "The only place they can feel comfortable and safe is the Peel." In what is believed to be the first case of its kind in Australia, the state's Civil and Administrative Tribunal ruled that the pub could ban people on the basis of their sexuality. The decision was backed by the Victorian Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Kathoey/transgender types fall under the umbrella of "alternative sexualities" and it behooves those of us under that umbrella to keep it as wide and inclusive as possible within our legal and moral framework. However, the attitude of the individual in the report doesn't inspire my sympathy and there are many reasons one could be denied entrance to a club- the "no-kathoey" excuse could have simply been a face-saving way of saying something else (like, "you're not dressed appropriately," or "we think you've had enough to drink already."). That's reinforced by the manager's quick assertion that there are no such "anti-gay" policies in place there. Otherwise we would've heard about something like this a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 The only alternative sexuality in need of any sort of protection in Bangkok would be the endangered monogamous variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Well, now that you mention it, straight men are pretty thin on the ground, here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Okkkkk.... so the straight person accidentally walks into a gay bar and orders a beer... now, tell us, HOW did the bartender know he/she was straight in order to discriminate against him/her in this fashion?Interesting cul-de-sac you've wandered into... i don't think that's a culd-de-sac and i am convinced that most gay men can identify me as a hetero as i can identify most gay men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I support the right of any bar to refuse service to anyone, at their discretion. This is standard procedure found throughout the world. There are stories of many a straight person accidentally walking into a gay bar and upon ordering a beer have been refused service. So, why should it be any different?Therefore, I support the ban that Novotel has instigated simply because they have the right to do so. And all you heterophobes out there can b!tch all you want. I've heard it all before, so don't waste your time... After working in clubs for nearly 12 years, & owning a club for two years, I support this comment. "right of any bar to refuse service to anyone, at their discretion" I don't care whether you are gay, straight, handicapped, businessman, tweaker, bogun, pot-head, beautiful, ugly or whatever. If my club has a certain policy for a certain night the door staff will follow that, forget PC. That's the name of the game in club-world. You might be running a reggae night. Do you want all the Timo Maas fans coming & making the whole place weird? You may be running a Josh Winx & Carl Cox night. Would all the Van Halen fans fit in? "Management reserves the right to refuse entry." Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshMyPickle Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Incidentally, the Novotel at BKK airport is very cruisy, especially around the pool area. I don't reckon they will ever ban slutty falang gays from the hotel premises though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Okkkkk.... so the straight person accidentally walks into a gay bar and orders a beer... now, tell us, HOW did the bartender know he/she was straight in order to discriminate against him/her in this fashion?Interesting cul-de-sac you've wandered into... i don't think that's a culd-de-sac and i am convinced that most gay men can identify me as a hetero as i can identify most gay men. I think you may be overestimating the ability of your gaydar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I cant wait to see the rally of Kathoey/transgender in front of the hotel. it will be the best show in bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) OK, I have libertarian tendencies that are not at all repressed so here is what I think about this. Novotel can ban anyone they want. They should be clear about it and not do in a secret, sleazy way. Then, offended people can decide to boycott or not boycott their larger businesses. That would likely hurt them. Now gay pubs and club should be free to ban heteros as well (most don't). I doubt that would hurt their business at all though. Gays are a small minority and its natural to want to have gay spaces. Cheers! Edited June 28, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 What's the problem guys? If someone is gay they are gay. If bi - bi. If hetero - hetero. People are people, not in-animate objects which one can label as far as one see's fit. Being a rascist, biggott or an idiot is far more offensive as far as I am concerned. Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCA Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Of course gay people can't be recognised by appearance. Should they be expected to wear a pink triangle to sort them into sexuality. What nonsense This is really not about gay people it is about deceit. The Novotel is an international chain with certain expected standards (although almost all the thais in there are prostitutes like anywhete else in town). This is a good way to protect the unsuspecting guests who are unfamiliar with Bankok trannys and their scams. The trannys are not upfront about what they are. Good common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I support the right of any bar to refuse service to anyone, at their discretion. This is standard procedure found throughout the world. There are stories of many a straight person accidentally walking into a gay bar and upon ordering a beer have been refused service. So, why should it be any different?Therefore, I support the ban that Novotel has instigated simply because they have the right to do so. And all you heterophobes out there can b!tch all you want. I've heard it all before, so don't waste your time... I can't ever recall being refused service in a gay bar or pub. Kind of difficult for gay & straight friends to go out for drinks if we're segregated. I though segregation went out in the 60s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinthee Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Of course gay people can't be recognised by appearance. Should they be expected to wear a pink triangle to sort them into sexuality. What nonsense This is really not about gay people it is about deceit. The Novotel is an international chain with certain expected standards (although almost all the thais in there are prostitutes like anywhete else in town). This is a good way to protect the unsuspecting guests who are unfamiliar with Bankok trannys and their scams. The trannys are not upfront about what they are. Good common sense. I agree with you that the Novotel is a notorious pick up place for working girls (evidently now more Russian than Thai), and that this has nothing to do with gay issues. It is simply that the management doesn't want the tourists who are in there to be duped, hassled or otherwise messed with by the similarly notorious Thai katoeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 We're going to clean up this thread a bit. Let me remind our readers that inflammatory material, especially targetted towards minority groups, will result in disciplinary holidays; and if similar trouble continues this thread will be closed soon. "Steven" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambinA Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I went to CM2 sometimes ago .Boring place indeed. It is so-called Ho-farm. I have a funny idea. I will hire 20 crazy katheoys who act as possing by ghost from Hindu Temple (Silom area) to make a funny dancing in front of Novotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer21 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I would support the ban on the grounds of which toilets would they use. Can't have then using the ladies - wouldnt be right. And i am sure a lot of guys wouldnt feel comfortable with katoeys in the gents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer21 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) * I think you over estmate your ability to be understood in english - sorry but you make absoulutley no sense Obviously you were being offensive as you have deleted your post Edited June 28, 2007 by observer21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambinA Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) * I think you over estmate your ability to be understood in english - sorry but you make absoulutley no sense Obviously you were being offensive as you have deleted your post so? My wnglish is not that great. However, i re-read your post ...and i know that i misunderstood so i shut up.(sorry then) what do you want now? Edited June 28, 2007 by BambinA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer21 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 * I think you over estmate your ability to be understood in english - sorry but you make absoulutley no sense Obviously you were being offensive as you have deleted your post so? My wnglish is not that great. However, i re-read your post ...and i keep the shut up. what do you want now? Sorry i dont understand - what are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambinA Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Sorry i dont understand - what are you trying to say? My English is not that great. However, i re-read your post ...and i know that i misunderstood so i shut up.(sorry then) Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer21 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 So you re-edit the post you deleted and pretend it was a double post. Not so clever really as you can not fully delete your post - only admin. can. Devious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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