A Humble Request To Close This Forum Section

[kwiz117]

To Forum Admins,

I am following this section time to time. I am a Buddhist and it’s sad for me to read many of the topics, replies written to insult Buddhism, Buddhist Countries, Lord Buddha indirectly or directly.

Buddhist Countries have enough threats from various missionaries, operating in all Buddhist countries funded by charities.

Interestingly, this forum is mainly dominated by foreigners, who have come from west and who are not Buddhist.

It's true that some of you'll really respect Buddhism and try to learn the Buddhist Philosophy while living in Thailand. I do not think any of them will come to a forum to discuss Buddhism.

Many of the replies here are cut and paste versions from various websites or filled with imaginations.

Therefore, this request is to stop this section for the interest of Buddhist people in Thailand and rest of the world.

kwiz

[snowleopard]

To Forum Admins,

I am following this section time to time. I am a Buddhist and it’s sad for me to read many of the topics, replies written to insult Buddhism, Buddhist Countries, Lord Buddha indirectly or directly.

Buddhist Countries have enough threats from various missionaries, operating in all Buddhist countries funded by charities.

Interestingly, this forum is mainly dominated by foreigners, who have come from west and who are not Buddhist.

Therefore, this request is to stop this section for the interest of Buddhist people in Thailand and rest of the world.

kwiz

My humble request is NOT to impose any kind of censorship at all!

I love free speech and the free flow of information so everyone can freely make up his/her own mind on the subject!

Let us always get the whole picture exposed in front of us with the good,the bad and the ugly,so each and everyone can make an informed choice!

That way nobody has to be ignorant and rely on blind faith for important decisions.

Like it has already been doing so admirably for some 2500 years,the great philosophy of Buddhism can stand its own ground and fending for itself without having to be hijacked by any masters who say they're trying to protect Buddhism's holiness from outside threats!!

In fact,those protectors are only trying to protect their own agendas and positions through imposing dogma and censorship!

In my humble opinion,a person becomes a real Buddhist by his/her own investigations and not by agreeing to get that label attached on his persona.

Proselytization by missionaries of other religions isn't posing any real threat to the tolerant Buddhism!

Snowleopard.

[andyinkat]

Kwiz,

As you know, I've only joined the forum relatively recently and I have to confess to being quite shocked at the number of posters flaunting their disrespect and ignorance of Buddhism on this forum.

On another forum there is a long thread which is a near-100% ignorant anti-Christian tirade which is just as disappointing to me, a philosopher and respecter of religion. But then in real life I avoid the great majority of expats as I know I won't get an intelligent conversation out of them.

My view is that many - perhaps most expats in LOS predominantly follow the philosophy of hedonism and have no desire to understand the host religion.

However I share snowleopard's position that it would be wrong to close the forum on this basis. There may be few knowledgeable and practising Buddhists but there are a few sincere enquirers here - I know this because a good number of them have been PMing me asking for more details of aspects of Buddhism than I have posted on the board. This is an invisible dimension of the forum which needs to be taken into account.

Are you aware of the sutta in which Lord Buddha's disciples Sariputta and Moggallana come to him in a distressed state? 'Teacher' they say, 'There is a man in the neighbouring village who is disparaging you - what should we do?' The Buddha very calmly explained that they should do nothing. 'If anyone disparages the Dhamma it is out of ignorance so there is no need to be upset. Similarly if anyone praises me or the Dhamma out of ignorance it means nothing.'

Censorship, persecution and such reactions are signs of insecurity. As practising Buddhists I think we can practise non-attachment in the face of such ignorance, and I think we can have sufficient faith in the strength of the Dhamma to have confidence that it can sustain the attacks of a few arrogant egotistical westerners.

[PvtDick]

Who says one has to be a Buddhist to be interested in Buddhism, or to discuss Buddhism? If kwiz117 objects to views or facts posted, he should explain why they are wrong or offensive, not seek to ban discussion of Buddhism altogether.

[andyinkat]

he should explain why they are wrong or offensive,

To be fair, Pvtdick, they are too numerous and often too ignorant to make it worthwhile, especially as many of the posters are so closed-minded that you'd be expending hours of patient time writing informed replies only to be flamed or ignored. The Buddha advocates maintaining a 'noble silence' in such circumstances.

[PvtDick]

The Buddha advocates maintaining a 'noble silence' in such circumstances.

Not a very good way to promote knowledge and understanding, but whatever...

[stroll]

I am one of the 'serious enquirers' in this forum, I am not very knowledgable, but I do not intend to cause offence here. I am seeking to learn and discuss, naturally I do come from a western background and my contributions reflect this. Please don't take it the wrong way. IMO this forum is a very valuable platform for exchange and we are lucky to have knowledgable people here who take the time to reply and post.

[eyespan]

I have been trying to learn more about buddhism for the last one and a half year. And because I have faith now in the teachings of the Lord Buddha, I dare to call myself a buddhist.

I am still confused many times with the teachings even on this forum but sometimes I find a little post here in the forum that deepens my understanding just slightly further.

For this reason alone, I find it worthwhile to read the threads in this forum. Please do not think it is useless and do away with it.

[Yohan]

Therefore, this request is to stop this section for the interest of Buddhist people in Thailand and rest of the world.

kwiz

I am totally against arbitrary censorship - against editing of postings - against locking of threads....

I am not a Buddhist, and I do not care at all, if this Buddhist forum exists or not, but there are readers here, who obviously like this Buddhist discussion, so it should continue.

kwiz117 Posted on Mon 2004-07-05, 13:40:46

this forum is mainly dominated by foreigners, who have come from west and who are not Buddhist

This is not a valid argument.

There are Thai citizens, like the Thai-Muslims, who are not Buddhists, and there are Buddhists, who are not Thai citizens, like the Chinese in Malaysia or in Canada.

The Gautama, who became the Buddha, was from the West, and he was an Caucasian from India, and not a Thai.

Thailand is not the origin of the Buddhist religion.

Japan, where I am living, is a Buddhist country with over 124 million Buddhists - nobody here would think anything wrong with a discussion about Buddhism done by foreigners, who do not know it better, but who are exchanging their opinions and are interested to hear more about it.

[camerata]

There are always some people who are offensive and a lot who post incorrect information in every kind of forum on the Internet. It's par for the course. But I don't think we should shut down every forum because of it. Regarding this particular forum, the whole web site is targeted at foreigners and run by foreigners, so I think it's inevitable that participants will be mostly foreigners with a western perspective.

But it's still a useful resource. It certainly caused me to take a closer look at Buddhism, and I'm sure there are many other "lurkers" like me who don't post much but read a lot.

I don't see a forum like this as a threat to Buddhism at all. Folks who are offended by it or don't like it will probably just not bother reading it. Those who find it interesting will eventually move on to reading more orthodox Buddhist books or web sites elsewhere.

[ghengis]

Many people in this forum are married to devout Buddhists. It is important to understand the nature of this religeon because it has a direct influence on our lives.

Forums tend to be like a school yard. In the imortal words of Homer Simpson -

Always make fun of those different from you.

Never say anything, unless you're sure everyone feels exactly the same way you do.

Maybe not everyone wants to be one of the crowd. Maybe some of us want to be 'more spiritual than the average farang'. The rules of the school yard dictate that 'people make fun of whats different', so you might expect some smart-arsed remarks from the more ignorant members of the forum. So what !!

If only one post in a hundred provides inspiration then it would be worth-while.

While every religeous group thinks they have the 'one true faith', we all know that it is the differences which are most likely to be false, and the similarities which are most likely to be true. Buddhism has a lot to offer, even if do not become a total believer.

[Darknight]

Many of the replies here are cut and paste versions from various websites or filled with imaginations.

It's not because Views are imaginations in your book , kasun, that these views can not be the experience of others.

Maybe you just don't understand them yet

Buddhist Countries have enough threats from various missionaries, operating in all Buddhist countries funded by charities.

If any religion would be able to cope with "outside treaths" i surely would think it would be buddhism

If you see threaths around you , it says more about your perception then about " reality". Maybe you should just see them as an endless play of ignorance versus consciousness.

Still missing the point i guess

[bina]

kwiz since u didnt bother (or couldnt answer) my PM to u, heres for all to read:

to bad u think so...

i'm trying to understand the people i work with daily (thai migrant workers mostly from issan area), in a country which is as different from buddhism as can be (israel); its obvious that thai buddhists who are knowledgeable enough to answer might not do so because the forum is in english, however, i dont see you answering to those of us who have posted questions because we want to learn or understand ....i am jewish, and in america suffered (in the area i lived in ) enough because of my religious/ethnic background... i was also raised to appreciate other people's ways of living and like to understand behavior of the people around me.... so why dont u just practice patience, and answer those of us that are interested?!

bina

[email protected]

[sabaijai]

Are you aware of the sutta in which Lord Buddha's disciples Sariputta and Moggallana come to him in a distressed state? 'Teacher' they say, 'There is a man in the neighbouring village who is disparaging you - what should we do?' The Buddha very calmly explained that they should do nothing. 'If anyone disparages the Dhamma it is out of ignorance so there is no need to be upset. Similarly if anyone praises me or the Dhamma out of ignorance it means nothing.'

A very appropriate response, Andyinkat.

I've seen very few posts in the Buddhism branch of this forum so far that could be called offensive to Buddhism. That's what the moderators are for, to remove offensive posts, warn offensive posters and if necessary ban them from thaivisa.com altogether. So I'm in favour of continuing the Buddhism branch.

Also I think several of the regulars on this branch are indeed Buddhists, albeit non-Thai. I've been a self-professed Buddhist longer than the majority of Thais (Thailand being a young country and me getting long in the tooth)!

To turn that around, how many Thais who profess to be Buddhist actually are? That's meant as a rhetorical question, I don't think one can really estimate as no one agrees on what makes a Buddhist (unless keeping the five precepts is a precondition, in which case few Thais would qualify ).

[p_brownstone]

But then in real life I avoid the great majority of expats as I know I won't get an intelligent conversation out of them.

My view is that many - perhaps most expats in LOS predominantly follow the philosophy of hedonism and have no desire to understand the host religion.

A couple of pretty "ignorant, arrogant and egotistical" statements from a self appointed "philosopher and respecter of religion" perhaps!

As a practising Bhuddist don't you think this displays a little more condescension, conceit and "self" than your professed ideals would commend?

[somtaamgaiyang]

Interesting comment this, to believe somehow, that discussion of a relgion is prohibited. It can certainly degenerate into a slanging match, but to say that in some way Buddhism is above discussion and that Thailand and Thais have some sort on monopoly on it is ridiculous.

[kwiz117]

Hello,

Appreciate all the responses.

Sorry, I can not answer each an every reply in this forum as I have very limited time to spend on this forum like many of you guys. But I read all your replies. Further, I have been reading and participating in this forum for months now. I also have met nice people from this forum and I do know many of you guys are not here to spread another religion. We have thousands of other interesting things to do.

Many people who have replied above are not the people who have used this forum in a negative manner.

1. For people who like to learn about Buddhism.

Buddhism is a subject where you have to teach in a proper, methodical way.

You can not teach Buddhism if your mind is not ready to take it. That is why, in many Buddhist schools, that they have certain restrictions, guidelines to follow before anyone attend to learn Buddhism. YOu can not simply walk in and ask questions.

For example, Dress in white or light color, not to take Alcohol during that period, get separated from women etc. Do you think they do these just for fun or just for sake of doing it?

You can not just go and explain Buddhism in any place, any time. That is why Lord Buddha has waited until the time come to explain the consequence of certain things.

That is why Buddha went to a jungle and selected a place under a “Boo” tree to attain “nibbana”.

If you read the stories in Buddhism (Whether they are true or not), it shows the way Buddha has addressed different individuals in different manner to suit the state of mind that they are in at that moment of time.

2. Can a forum help to teach or clear questions about a philosophy like Buddhism?

The subject of philosophy. Can you compare it with a general subjects in this forum such as Thai Visa section, Farang Pub Section, IT section?

Can a forum help to teach or clear questions about a philosophy?

Yes, it can. But then it has to be dedicated for that and has to have a fair representation of people who can reply to the questions others have? I mean you need people who really practice Buddhism or people who really have learned the subject of Buddhism. I know just one person in this section.

For example, I am not going to answer anything in Buddhism if I am not sure about it. If I do answer or quote from a website, I will certainly disclose the quote from where on earth I took that and how independent my quote is.

For example,

Take Thaivisa.com. Can you use this forum as a mean to get medical advices?

A guy quoting himself as (for example, let’s say Dr. Patpong ) prescribe you some medicine in Medical section. Are you ready to take it?

3. Problem of Identity and posibility to misuse.

I myself know how many duplicate user names are using in this forum to represent different subjects as an when they comeup time to time.

For example, set of users who always participate in Politics, another set for Investment related issues, and another set for Thai subjects.

( I should say it's very creative to read two different views written by the same person by using two different names.)

When you have that type of a situation here, it has a very good possibility of having another set of dummy names for Buddhism.

Based on above points, I do not think this forum is the place to discuss a philosophy like Buddhism. It can mislead people, it can be used as a mean to insult, humiliate people who practice them. Sadly I already read many such replies.

kwiz

[DeDanan]

Kwizz

I am not so sure of your identity, are you?

1. One of those dual identity posters who post views just to get a reaction from the other members.

2. One who genuinely does care and understand about Buddhism BUT does not understand the nature of this forum.

The majority of post that I have read are from people who want to understand and maybe learn a little more about Buddhism. In this way we can try clarify our understanding of the subject. We may or may not go on to develop a strong Buddhist belief but we are entitled to explore it.

Many of the books on the subject are written in a “scholarly fashion” and difficult for the lay man to understand. I myself live in Ireland, the nearest Theravada Temple to me is in the UK, and there is not much chance of meeting a Buddhist Monk about these parts.

I personally like the idea that we can ask any question on the subject and read the different replies, this surely is a healthy sign! It does improve our understanding of the subject.

If you are genuinely offended by our ignorance of Buddhism then please contribute to help improve our understanding. If you do not wish to contribute something positive then I am sure you can find many “Genuine Buddhist” forums for your thoughts.

As always,

Have a Happy…

DeDanan

[Darknight]

If you endeavor to embrace the Way through much learning, the Way will not be understood. If you observe the Way with simplicity of heart, great indeed is this Way.

- Sutra of Forty Two Chapters

Buddhism is a subject where you have to teach in a proper, methodical way.

You can not teach Buddhism if your mind is not ready to take it. That is why, in many Buddhist schools, that they have certain restrictions, guidelines to follow before anyone attend to learn Buddhism. YOu can not simply walk in and ask questions.

I beg to differ, Kwiz Buddhism should be a religion based on experience be it through meditation or simpel learning. All the frills and commandments are more for the "Face" of the Lay people then really related to the teaching of Buddha himself.

For example, Dress in white or light color, not to take Alcohol during that period, get separated from women etc. Do you think they do these just for fun or just for sake of doing it?

Why would you say that these rules are in place ? I would say they were ment to (and i speak from eperimenting with it) do a simpel thing. To meditate or understand certain teachings you need to raise your spiritual energy level. Consuming Alcohol is contra dictory to this it lowers your perception and energy, just as having sex does for a Man. The white clothes is the same priciple as color influences certain energy's around you. (that's why people in a funeral where black, as it shrinks your emotional reception and you don't feel that much of others people's sorrow)

You can not just go and explain Buddhism in any place, any time. That is why Lord Buddha has waited until the time come to explain the consequence of certain things.

Buddha didn't wait for nothing , he was just a normal man that reached enlightenment at this time and was also proficient to become a master and teach others. Many people have reached enlightenment but were not able to be a master. At Best you can say that "The Universe" has waited for that time.

That is why Buddha went to a jungle and selected a place under a “Boo” tree to attain “nibbana”.

He went to the jungle to be ALONE. As you can't meditate or Raise your energy levels while you are distracted by other people. They will disturb you and even unknowingly absorb your energy. For a monk this means that he Never can Rise very far out of the common "energy or reality" around him. That's why monks Seek solitude, just as buddha went in to the jungle, just as jezus went to sit on his mountain. Wen they are only surrounded by nature you can attain elightenment.

If you read the stories in Buddhism (Whether they are true or not), it shows the way Buddha has addressed different individuals in different manner to suit the state of mind that they are in at that moment of time.

As some people do here Kwiz

2. Can a forum help to teach or clear questions about a philosophy like Buddhism?

The subject of philosophy. Can you compare it with a general subjects in this forum such as Thai Visa section, Farang Pub Section, IT section?

Can a forum help to teach or clear questions about a philosophy?

Yes, it can. But then it has to be dedicated for that and has to have a fair representation of people who can reply to the questions others have? I mean you need people who really practice Buddhism or people who really have learned the subject of Buddhism. I know just one person in this section.

For example, I am not going to answer anything in Buddhism if I am not sure about it. If I do answer or quote from a website, I will certainly disclose the quote from where on earth I took that and how independent my quote is.

For example,

Take Thaivisa.com. Can you use this forum as a mean to get medical advices?

A guy quoting himself as (for example, let’s say Dr. Patpong  ) prescribe you some medicine in Medical section. Are you ready to take it?

3. Problem of Identity and posibility to misuse.

I myself know how many duplicate user names are using in this forum to represent different subjects as an when they comeup time to time.

For example, set of users who always participate in Politics, another set for Investment related issues, and another set for Thai subjects.

( I should say it's very creative to read two different views written by the same person by using two different names.)

When you have that type of a situation here, it has a very good possibility of having another set of dummy names for Buddhism.

Based on above points, I do not think this forum is the place to discuss a philosophy like Buddhism. It can mislead people, it can be used as a mean to insult, humiliate people who practice them. Sadly I already read many such replies.

I think you approach this much to Brainlike Kasun. I think your english upbringing is shining to much through your roots

It would be a very "Unbuddhist" point of view to say that only Thai or Sri lankan People are Able to learn or teach Buddhism.

Oh yeah Kasun,quote taken from Dailyzen.com

[kwiz117]

Buddhism is a subject where you have to teach in a proper, methodical way.

You can not teach Buddhism if your mind is not ready to take it. That is why, in many Buddhist schools, that they have certain restrictions, guidelines to follow before anyone attend to learn Buddhism. YOu can not simply walk in and ask questions.

I beg to differ, Kwiz Buddhism should be a religion based on experience be it through meditation or simpel learning. All the frills and commandments are more for the "Face" of the Lay people then really related to the teaching of Buddha himself.

1. Sorry..you are wrong…It’s not a religion.

2. Sorry.. you are wrong..no simple ways to learn

3. Frills and commandments are not related to Buddha’s teaching. I have not said like that. What I have said is you need to have an external environment and internal state of mind developed to such a state to understand Buddhist philosophy.

For example, Dress in white or light color, not to take Alcohol during that period, get separated from women etc. Do you think they do these just for fun or just for sake of doing it?

Why would you say that these rules are in place ? I would say they were ment to (and i speak from eperimenting with it) do a simpel thing. To meditate or understand certain teachings you need to raise your spiritual energy level. Consuming Alcohol is contra dictory to this it lowers your perception and energy, just as having sex does for a Man. The white clothes is the same priciple as color influences certain energy's around you. (that's why people in a funeral where black, as it shrinks your emotional reception and you don't feel that much of others people's sorrow)

Fully agreed and you have said the same thing that I have said in the above quote in a different way. That is why I am saying that you can not have a forum to discuss Buddhism in a place where people come and spend time for fun. It has to be an objective forum dedicated to such subjects.

You can not just go and explain Buddhism in any place, any time. That is why Lord Buddha has waited until the time come to explain the consequence of certain things.

Buddha didn't wait for nothing , he was just a normal man that reached enlightenment at this time and was also proficient to become a master and teach others. Many people have reached enlightenment but were not able to be a master. At Best you can say that "The Universe" has waited for that time.

Do you know anyone who have reached enlightenment. Stop lying.

That is why Buddha went to a jungle and selected a place under a “Boo” tree to attain “nibbana”.

He went to the jungle to be ALONE. As you can't meditate or Raise your energy levels while you are distracted by other people. They will disturb you and even unknowingly absorb your energy. For a monk this means that he Never can Rise very far out of the common "energy or reality" around him. That's why monks Seek solitude, just as buddha went in to the jungle, just as jezus went to sit on his mountain. Wen they are only surrounded by nature you can attain elightenment.

Another classic imagination…

He did not went to the jungle with an intention to meditate.

He went to the jungle after seeing the 4 stages about the state of life a person has to pass and after realizing the meaningless of his royal life. He wanted to find an answer to the 4 questions that came up to his mind where his farther could not explain him.

He did not meditate first. So you are again wrong..

“Wen they are only surrounded by nature you can attain elightenment.”

You make me laugh.

I think you approach this much to Brainlike  Kasun. I think your english upbringing is shining to much through your roots 

It would be a very "Unbuddhist" point of view to say that only Thai or Sri lankan People are Able to learn or teach Buddhism.

You know what..many people whenever they did not have proper answers always quoted my English and also the country I come from.

Remember..I never said anything about the number of spelling mistakes you have done in your above reply.

I am not like that. Also I have never said that Thai or Sri Lankan people are the only people who should learn Buddhism.

What I say is, stop this forum section where people like you can easily misdirect others about a Subject where they have to learn, read or practice with dedication and with proper guidance.

[kwiz117]

Kwizz

I am not so sure of your identity, are you?

1. One of those dual identity posters who post views just to get a reaction from the other members.

2. One who genuinely does care and understand about Buddhism BUT does not understand the nature of this forum.

You are rest assured about my identity kwiz117 in this forum. I have never changed my name to cover up or to hide from anyone. That’s simply not my style.

I understand the nature of this forum. That's why I said this is not the place to discuss such a subject.

[sabaijai]

Reading Kwiz's second post, I'm beginning to see what he's getting at.

What he's saying is that Buddhism in Thailand is held in too high a respect to be a subject of a branch of the thaivisa.com forum. It's one of the two 'sacred cows' here in Thailand, as those of us who have lived here awhile know well.

Does thaivisa.com have a branch called The Monarchy, where members discuss the theory and practice of the Thai monarchy? No, in fact we all know that discussions of the monarchy are strongly discouraged for the simple reason that it doesn't go down well with the majority of Thai society and could cause offence to the point where thaivisa.com could censured (not censored) by the Thai government.

It's a difference of perspective. Most Westerners, even those of us who are practicing Buddhists, think of Buddhism and indeed all religions as topics that can be discussed like just about any other topic. For Thais it's not that way.

I can also see where the 'mixing' of other schools of Buddhism, e.g., Zen and Tibetan Buddhism, on this branch might make a born Theravada Buddhist feel uncomfortable. Thailand isn't just 'Buddhist', it's a staunchly Theravadin country for better or worse.

Some members have suggested that Kwiz simply ignore the branch, but he'll see the heading sitting there every time he logs onto thaivisa.com.

However I'm not so sure it has to be axed myself to avoid general offence (i.e., to other Thais who might log on). I sense a wind change in that some Thais do perceive of Buddhism as a semi-secular discipline nowadays. I know that meditation, for example, has been lifted from it's normal monastery trappings and is now being taught in business situations in Thailand, including Thai banks. No dressing in white or sitting in the forest for this. The TAT itself is now promoting vipassana meditation as a healing discipline like yoga and massage. This is something that you wouldn't have seen 20 years ago here, so I'm not so sure that your way of thinking about Buddhism is a contemporary view or somewhat old-fashioned.

Still you've certainly given me pause for thought and at the moment I feel pretty ambivalent about continuing to participate.

Kwiz if you really feel strongly about this you should probably communicate your feelings to the admins or perhaps the mods for this branch already have.

[kwiz117]

What he's saying is that Buddhism in Thailand is held in too high a respect to be a subject of a branch of the thaivisa.com forum. It's one of the two 'sacred cows' here in Thailand, as those of us who have lived here awhile know well.

Read my post again. Where did I give that meaning? Please quote it before jumping into your own conclusions. Unbelievable !

Some members have suggested that Kwiz simply ignore the branch, but he'll see the heading sitting there every time he logs onto thaivisa.com.

Who suggested? Please quote that as well.

However I'm not so sure it has to be axed myself to avoid general offence (i.e., to other Thais who might log on). I sense a wind change in that some Thais do perceive of Buddhism as a semi-secular discipline nowadays. I know that meditation, for example, has been lifted from it's normal monastery trappings and is now being taught in business situations in Thailand, including Thai banks. No dressing in white or sitting in the forest for this. The TAT itself is now promoting vipassana meditation as a healing discipline like yoga and massage. This is something that you wouldn't have seen 20 years ago here, so I'm not so sure that your way of thinking about Buddhism is a contemporary view or somewhat old-fashioned.

Correct. But how effective it is? Not only in Thailand. It’s everywhere.

I am not talking about those. What I am telling is stop misleading people where and stop humiliating people who practice Buddhist.

Still you've certainly given me pause for thought and at the moment I feel pretty ambivalent about continuing to participate.

Kwiz if you really feel strongly about this you should probably communicate your feelings to the admins or perhaps the mods for this branch already have.

I have done it by posting this topic. Now the real intentions of this section is getting more and more clearer to me when reading all of above replies.

[32x]

kwizz117..Having read your post`s you are someone that i would ask advice for regarding Buddhism.

As a complete novice my main means of learning are books ,internet & my Thai Gf,who has been very helpfull with do`s & dont`s when visiting a temple.

So dont you think this forum has some value if you are giving good advice for the novice who really want`s to learn Buddhism?

[DeDanan]

Now the real intentions of this section is getting more and more clearer to me when reading all of above replies.

Kwiz,

Can you clarify for me what you think are the real intentions of the members who post here?

Have a Happy...

DeDanan

[sabaijai]

What he's saying is that Buddhism in Thailand is held in too high a respect to be a subject of a branch of the thaivisa.com forum. It's one of the two 'sacred cows' here in Thailand, as those of us who have lived here awhile know well.

Read my post again. Where did I give that meaning? Please quote it before jumping into your own conclusions. Unbelievable !

Some members have suggested that Kwiz simply ignore the branch, but he'll see the heading sitting there every time he logs onto thaivisa.com.

Who suggested? Please quote that as well.

However I'm not so sure it has to be axed myself to avoid general offence (i.e., to other Thais who might log on). I sense a wind change in that some Thais do perceive of Buddhism as a semi-secular discipline nowadays. I know that meditation, for example, has been lifted from it's normal monastery trappings and is now being taught in business situations in Thailand, including Thai banks. No dressing in white or sitting in the forest for this. The TAT itself is now promoting vipassana meditation as a healing discipline like yoga and massage. This is something that you wouldn't have seen 20 years ago here, so I'm not so sure that your way of thinking about Buddhism is a contemporary view or somewhat old-fashioned.

Correct. But how effective it is? Not only in Thailand. It’s everywhere.

I am not talking about those. What I am telling is stop misleading people where and stop humiliating people who practice Buddhist.

Still you've certainly given me pause for thought and at the moment I feel pretty ambivalent about continuing to participate.

Kwiz if you really feel strongly about this you should probably communicate your feelings to the admins or perhaps the mods for this branch already have.

I have done it by posting this topic. Now the real intentions of this section is getting more and more clearer to me when reading all of above replies.

You've lost me, Kwiz. I was the only one here trying to see your viewpoint. But I now suspect you're more interested in arguing and attacking than in protecting Buddhism or Thai dignity.

[stroll]

I tried to understand what exactly his objections are, too. Kwiz has logged out now. He is SriLankan, by the way.

If I get the general drift right, what he is saying is similar to some of Snark's comment before, like what would you hope to gain from a forum like this, when it is part of an expat visa and fun forum?

Let's not be discouraged, and I hope we won't loose you as one of the knowledgable contributors here, Sabaijai.

[sabaijai]

OK, Stroll, now I understand why he didn't get what I was talking about. I mistakenly assumed Kwiz117 was Thai because in his profile he says he resides in Bangkok (which I'm sure he does, but the strong identification with Buddhism seemed Thai, even if the insults didn't!).

Kwiz, I thought your objections made sense from a Thai social perspective. Now it seems more like they come from paranoia and fear. I agree with the others here: if you disagree with any particular points raised on this branch of the forum, then why not try a little constructive criticism?

[Darknight]

What I say is, stop this forum section where people like you can easily misdirect others about a Subject where they have to learn, read or practice with dedication and with proper guidance

People with small minds and blinds for their eyes like you probably.

Still living in Dreams yourself i see.

Why don't you give your ALL knowing SRI LANKAN HERITAGE buddhism sholarship here then ? Like your All knowing IT knowledge

Both are based on the same dream, an accountant being an IT director , pfffff

Probably the first thing you will come up with is that you only qualify when you are a theravada monk and have read all the scriptures for 50 years, then you can answer a question.

Your complete concept of how and what people should or should not do , actually proves that you haven't gotten the point at all.

Maybe in another Hundred lives 555555555

[Darknight]

I can also see where the 'mixing' of other schools of Buddhism, e.g., Zen and Tibetan Buddhism, on this branch might make a born Theravada Buddhist feel uncomfortable. Thailand isn't just 'Buddhist', it's a staunchly Theravadin country for better or worse.

That i would surely like to follow sabaijai .

Just as protestants despise christians or jehova's witnesses, They all keep refering to that same old book. Long wars have been and are still being fought over this . It's like horses with blinds on......

I'm sure Kwiz feels like we rock his world with views based on divers buddhist traditions and some extrapolations i like to make to other similar belief systems like Tao, Zen, and Even Tantra.

Maybe he can see this time not as a fight but as a challenge to open his eyes and mind......

Wisdom is gained the quickest in troublesome times