Chiang Mai losing its appeal—how to manage? [long post/discussion]

[ThLT]

This is part rant/opinion-piece, part looking for advice. I moved here to Chiang Mai some years ago, when there were fewer tourists, so I'd say my reaction is likely more pronounced. However, I think these are things many probably go through after some years of living here. This will also probably be others' reaction, once millions more post-pandemic tourists arrive, so this discussion might benefit a number of members here.

After nearly half a decade in Chiang Mai, the colorful veil of what I thought Chiang Mai to be has I believe partially been lifted. Not necessarily Chiang Mai in itself, but the many things surrounding it. I thought I was going to call Chiang Mai my home. However, in the past month, for example, with the influx of tourists, I've almost been in a head-on collision with a tourist on a rented motorbike turning into the wrong lane (my lane), and a bit after, having to turn into the grass because a tourist in front of me decided to suddenly brake and park in a curb of a highway exit (yes, actually park in a highway exit). I've seen others almost crash into locals, and another with his legs on the ground extensively shaking, probably because he barely ever rode a motorcycle before, and couldn't manage to keep the bike upright at slow speeds. Basically, a collision with someone else just waiting to happen.

Seriously, f*** tourists without a license and experience on rented motorbikes. Thai people live and work here, university students go to school to study and earn a living. There is a large percentage of parents without the financial capacity to buy a car who take their children to and from school almost every single day on a motorbike. Many tourists want to have the basically fabricated "Thailand experience," that is sold by and to people abroad on social media and blogs, but then many come here without a motorcycle license, and for such people, putting the lives of others at risk is not even an afterthought. When a tourist dies on Thai roads, which also involves the death of a local, notice that almost never is it mentioned that a Thai person also died in the accident. The sole cause of the accident was not the tourist without a license/experience, no, it's always how dangerous Thai roads are. How self-centered can someone be, to cause another to die, yet simply blame the country the person was in? There are so many unwritten rules and ways about driving a motorbike that is specific to Thailand, that take months to know through actually driving. And even more, some don't even wear a helmet. Many here on Facebook have seen GoFundMe pages of tourists not having medical insurance, and then begging for money to pay for their hospital bill. Yeah, no, not giving a single cent.

This is the worst part, mainly because in some cases it involves people actually dying. There are also tourists jaywalking everywhere, sometimes even diagonally, holding up their arm as if they are Robert Downey Jr. and that their hand will stop a car that hasn't seen them. That, or just slowly taking their time while twenty cars and motorbikes are waiting for them to casually cross the road. They think pedestrians have utmost priority here, exactly like in their home country, you know, because that's how every country is, or should be.
It's also the attitude. It feels like Chiang Mai is an international tourist attraction to them. Smiling locals with tasty food and alcohol, having no significance past that, being part of that attraction. A jungle zoo, with cheap booze, coffee and now legal cannabis. Many tourists walk like they own the place, because they paid for a plane ticket and they have a few tourist dollars to hand out to locals. People live and have families here. People have lived here for almost a thousand years.

I've now come to the realization that Chiang Mai, for multiple months per year, is basically a semi-tourist city. In some ways like Paris, but not all year-round, and everything is cheaper instead of being more expensive. Compared to Bangkok, where tourists are rather drowned by nearly 10 million locals, and barely noticed outside the BTS or MRT, Chiang Mai, on the other hand, is somewhat inundated by tourists in specific parts of the city (in many cases leading to gentrification). There is no going into these areas without seeing digital nomads in every coffee shop, drinking only one or two cups of coffee, and typing away at their laptop for almost the whole day. This is even the case with this supposedly Facebook expat groups, with half the posts being tourist-related, and probably 1/3 of the members being tourists.

A great man once tried to pass on the way of thinking of "being a visitor of a country, and not a tourist" (rest in peace, Anthony Bourdain, your knowledge was heard by many, but sadly not by all).

China has recently announced that it will be lifting its COVID-zero policy on January 8 (and actually just before the January 22 Chinese New Year), which barred Chinese citizens from travelling outside the country, for over three years. Having been shut in for such a long time, and subjugated to severe governmental pressures, hordes of Chinese tourists will likely be even larger and much worse than before the pandemic. I'm having a difficult time with the current numbers of tourists, but triple or even quadruple that, and I don't know how I'll be able to manage or still like living in Chiang Mai.

I currently work here and signed a 1.5-year contract, so I'll be here for some time.

For those who have lived in Chiang Mai for many years, how did you get through such a phase? How do you manage to get past these kinds of things?

[stoner]

you mad bro ?

[ThLT]

5 minutes ago, stoner said:

you mad bro ?

Username checks out. ????

Edited December 29, 2022 by ThLT

[stoner]

12 minutes ago, ThLT said:

For those who have lived in Chiang Mai for many years, how did you get through such a phase? How do you manage to get past these kinds of things?

mai bpen rai...sabai sabai...jai yen yen bro

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, ThLT said:

There are also tourists jaywalking everywhere, sometimes even diagonally, holding up their arm as if they are Robert Downey Jr. and that their hand will stop a car that hasn't seen them.

That is the ONLY way to cross a road , if you stand on a pavement waiting to cross a road , the cars will not stop to let you cross the road and at the few and far between traffic lights , cars also will not stop unless you walk in front of the cars forcing them to stop

[brommers]

Pack your bags. To live in a "foreign place" requires flexibility, acceptance of differences, realisation that change happens and an embracing of inevitability. You seem to find it difficult to find that what you thought was reality is in fact not the case, because it was never the case. Perhaps you should return to your place of origin and embrace it once again. Chiang Mai over the past years has remained a home to me because it is vibrantly changing for the better, not fossilised.

[ThLT]

2 minutes ago, brommers said:

Pack your bags. To live in a "foreign place" requires flexibility, acceptance of differences, realisation that change happens and an embracing of inevitability. You seem to find it difficult to find that what you thought was reality is in fact not the case, because it was never the case. Perhaps you should return to your place of origin and embrace it once again. Chiang Mai over the past years has remained a home to me because it is vibrantly changing for the better, not fossilised.

What part of Chiang Mai do you live in?

[papa al]

Try Chiang Rai.?

[Doctor Tom]

If you hang around tourist areas you are going to have an issue with them.  Yes, they <deleted> me off too, but I stay away as much as I can from the areas and attractions where they mill around. I would and did the same in my own  country. My life is centered around my family and my local area, which although its within a 40 minute drive of Pattaya, is mercifully free of tourists.  For example; I find the Chinese tourists  an anti social menace, their coaches dangerous and annoying, their chatter loud and irritating, so I will stay away from all of those things when, inevitably, they return. There are many more locations around Thailand that are tourist free, than places were they visit and congregate  Move to one of those areas.   

[VinnieK]

I'm opening a can of worms here but why anybody would want to live in CM in the first place?

Legit question.

[BangkokReady]

30 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

I'm opening a can of worms here but why anybody would want to live in CM in the first place?

Legit question.

I hear it's nicer to look at than BKK with the mountains and such, but in my admittedly very short time there, it seemed very touristy and rip-offy.  Possibly the least friendly and most glary area I have visited in Thailand also.

 

Perhaps it is the kind of tourist town where the locals dislike the tourists, reluctantly put up with them for their money, and try to gouge them whenever they can, much to the disappointment of the "ex-pat community" (who generally despise tourists/other foreigners).

[Northstar1]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

I'm opening a can of worms here but why anybody would want to live in CM in the first place?

Legit question.

Great question! The mountain views? Hard to see in ???? burning season!

actually a very boring city, moved away when the smoke started, couldn’t understand why people would live in such a place?

didn’t retire to move to a city and put my health in jeopardy!

never ever forget an expat telling me it’s rice burning, it’s organic and good for you!

to the O.P, quit bitching and move!

[redsongthaew]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Possibly the least friendly and most glary area I have visited in Thailand also.

Give the Phuket tourist areas a try sometime...

[worgeordie]

i have been living here for 35 years , sure there have been many changes , both good and bad,

I would not really like to live anywhere else , it has everything i need , tourists don't bother me,

as I don't react with them .

 

Chiang Mai and Thailand have been very good to me ,I have absolutely nothing to complain about,

too many complainers on here , about Immigration , Banks , other drivers, etc,etc, etc.....as if those

same things did not happen in the West.

 

i will die here and be buried here ....hopefully not for a few more years , I wake up every morning

and most days the sun is shining and it's warm ,  the Toon are doing very well , and I am happy.

it's the simple things in life you should appreciate ,be grateful for what you have , too many people have nowt .

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

Great question! The mountain views? Hard to see in ???? burning season!

actually a very boring city,

What does your current location have that CM doesn't have , which makes you current location more interesting than CM ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I hear it's nicer to look at than BKK with the mountains and such, but in my admittedly very short time there, it seemed very touristy and rip-offy.  Possibly the least friendly and most glary area I have visited in Thailand also.

 

Which areas did you visit and how long did you stay for ?

[Jerno]

Your post is far too short.  We all want to read longer pieces of endless drivel and put us to sleep.  Please.

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, ThLT said:

For those who have lived in Chiang Mai for many years, how did you get through such a phase? How do you manage to get past these kinds of things?

Once I settled down here I hardly ever go to places where there are tourists.

Get out of the Moat/Huay Keow area and there are no tourists.

The view from my house ............

Edited December 30, 2022 by BritManToo

[stoner]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

too many complainers on here , about Immigration , Banks , other drivers, etc,etc, etc.....as if those

same things did not happen in the West.

i see you forgot to mention the 5 plus months of totally toxic air you breath ? 

 

are complainers complaining then or ? 

 

last time i checked most western countries did not have the pollution that CM has. i could be totally wrong though.

 

 

[worgeordie]

48 minutes ago, stoner said:

i see you forgot to mention the 5 plus months of totally toxic air you breath ? 

 

are complainers complaining then or ? 

 

last time i checked most western countries did not have the pollution that CM has. i could be totally wrong though.

 

 

5 months ,you obviously don't live here ,there is pollution in many forms ,in cities 

all over the World , if only everything was perfect , there would be nothing to

complain about. I suppose you use smokeless Ganga .....????

 

regards Worgeordie

Edited December 30, 2022 by worgeordie

[pgrahmm]

CM used to be an easy in, out, park shop, eat, & enjoy.....

No longer, we bought about 30k out and only drive into the city when necessary.....

The urban sprawl has brought more options toward me over the years.....

We live very nicely without the impulse to go into the city.....

I/we have never been "city" people....

CM still offers big city options at a small city feel....The increasingly poor availability of parking + hordes of tourists (many rude, ill mannered, and culturally unwise) make going into town less and less appealing over the years....

[Dante99]

Chiang Mai is like Pistachio Ice Cream.

 

Some people like it and others don't.  Isn't it wonderful that they both love to go on and on at each other about it.  

 

Yeh the tourists may leave much to be desired but the complainers may be worse, no, are worse.  

[BananaStrong]

Chiangmai before 2010 and a few years before Covid hit.   Three years total.   Chiangmai is like a diluted sense of Thailand.  Tourists, cheap falangs, mad falangs, drunk farangland, backpackers, broke YouTubers…….but it’s nice they all gravitate there.   Chiangmai has everything but with headaches of smoke and traffic.  It’s a must visit.  1 year is enough, but I had a gf and liked that experience of a gf who didn’t speak any English.   Lol.   Luckily, I slightly matured and got out of the cesspool.   Every other city in Thailand is more Thai than Chiangmai.  I’ve lived in seven cities.   Thais like Chiangmai because it’s not like home.   If you are not afraid to be away from hopeless  falangs, try another city.    

[BananaStrong]

25 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

5 months ,you obviously don't live here ,there is pollution in many forms ,in cities 

all over the World , if only everything was perfect , there would be nothing to

complain about. I suppose you use smokeless Ganga .....????

 

regards Worgeordie

Chiang Mai the most polluted city on earth

 

PUBLISHED : 9 MAR 2021 AT 20:23 WRITER: PANUMET TANRAKSA 160 41

Chiang Mai on Tuesday received the most undesirable accolade of becoming the most polluted city on the planet. The grim news from the IQ AirVisual air monitoring website came as authorities revealed that... he situation had caused 30,000 people to go to hospital because of respiratory illnesses over the last three months.    

 

bro, every city same same?  Polluted is not polluted……degrees of pollution.   
 

not every city is THiS bad………WORST on EARTH……. Not same same.    


 

[alien365]

Even as a once regular tourist to the area, I feel your pain. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by alien365

[1FinickyOne]

11 hours ago, VinnieK said:

I'm opening a can of worms here but why anybody would want to live in CM in the first place?

Legit question.

As compared to where? Legit question also - every place has its issues - - I lived in Bkk many years ago and liked the ease of a taxi - even after the rail lines came in but the traffic made taxis virtually unusable... I loved the beaches but they became overrun... 

 

I lived in a small village which I kind of liked, I live outside of CM now and enjoying going in town, though parking is an issue again, lately. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

i see you forgot to mention the 5 plus months of totally toxic air you breath ? 

are complainers complaining then or ? 

last time i checked most western countries did not have the pollution that CM has. i could be totally wrong though.

This year we had no toxic air, but 2 weeks of slightly smokey.

[Doctor Tom]

11 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

it seemed very touristy and rip-offy.  Possibly the least friendly and most glary area I have visited in Thailand also.

Not been to Phuket yet then?  If not, you've got a treat coming, thousand times worse than CM or BKK. 

[novacova]

14 minutes ago, alien365 said:

As you seem to have a problem with every westerner in Chiang Mai, maybe you are actually the problem, not them. 

What I’ve noticed quite often, nearly every day while I’m in the city is that many expat and tourists westerners here are desperate to be noticed by other westerners. The insecurity really has a silly goofy eyesore look to it. So yeah, ignore ‘em. 

[roo860]

1 minute ago, novacova said:

What I’ve noticed quite often, nearly every day while I’m in the city is that many expat and tourists westerners here are desperate to be noticed by other westerners. The insecurity really has a silly goofy eyesore look to it. So yeah, ignore ‘em. 

I have to create my 'man bun' to stand out in the crowd that have a man bun.