Electric Car Sales at record high in the UK

[Social Media]

Sales of electric vehicles have reached record levels in the UK, although supply chain disruption drove total sales of new cars to their lowest level in 30 years.

Just more than 1.6m new cars were sold in the UK last year, a 2% fall from 2021, and the lowest level since 1992, according to the annual sales snapshot from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

[Hanaguma]

Lovely.

 

Now, is there infrastructure to support them and the increased drain on the grid? Where does the electricity come from? Are there facilities to deal with old batteries? Are emergency services equipped to deal with the toxic fumes and mess caused when the batteries rupture?

[Longwood50]

I suggest we are trading one form of pollution for another.  The USA right now  Renewables amount to only 21% of the electric produced.  Even with renewables like sun, wind, and water, you have pollution from the contruction of dams, solar panels, and wind turbines plus the pollution from the transmission to the power company.  

It takes 2.2 million liters of water to make 1 ton of lithium used in the batteries.  1 ton is enough to make 190,000 cell phones.  In Chile 65% of the available water is used to extract the lithium deposits robbing the residents of water needed for daily living and crops.  

But you feel good driving your electric car and "thinking" it doesn't pollute. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Lovely.

 

Now, is there infrastructure to support them and the increased drain on the grid? Where does the electricity come from? Are there facilities to deal with old batteries? Are emergency services equipped to deal with the toxic fumes and mess caused when the batteries rupture?

What do you think. ????

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Black Ops said:

Sales of electric vehicles have reached record levels in the UK. 

Is that fully electric cars without engines,  my family are buying them half and half types.????

[n00dle]

meanwhile more folk than ever before struggle to keep the electric on.

[Chomper Higgot]

On 1/5/2023 at 10:03 AM, Hanaguma said:

Lovely.

 

Now, is there infrastructure to support them and the increased drain on the grid? Where does the electricity come from? Are there facilities to deal with old batteries? Are emergency services equipped to deal with the toxic fumes and mess caused when the batteries rupture?

You’ve heard of the Luddites ?

 

(It’s not a brand of batteries) 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 1/5/2023 at 10:39 AM, Longwood50 said:

I suggest we are trading one form of pollution for another.  The USA right now  Renewables amount to only 21% of the electric produced.  Even with renewables like sun, wind, and water, you have pollution from the contruction of dams, solar panels, and wind turbines plus the pollution from the transmission to the power company.  

It takes 2.2 million liters of water to make 1 ton of lithium used in the batteries.  1 ton is enough to make 190,000 cell phones.  In Chile 65% of the available water is used to extract the lithium deposits robbing the residents of water needed for daily living and crops.  

But you feel good driving your electric car and "thinking" it doesn't pollute. 

You are confusing use of resources with pollution and I doubt very much you have any real interest in addressing the equitable distribution of resources.

 

Explain what pollution is created in energy transmission?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:59 PM, Kwasaki said:

Is that fully electric cars without engines,  my family are buying them half and half types.????

Good for them, hybrids are extremely efficient compared with a standard internal combustion vehicle.

 

 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve heard of the Luddites ?

 

(It’s not a brand of batteries) 

.........so no actual answers to very valid questions, then?  Just feeble attempts at humour. 

 

But in all seriousness, I am not against EVs at all. But they are not the solution (yet).   To put it simply, manufactuing an EV is far more damaging to the environment than manufactuing a gas powered car.  There are also potential hazards due to the chemicals used. There are also political/social considerations as many of the major components of EVs are produced in countries with abhorrent human rights records. 

 

The hope is that, over time, that deficit will be made up and eventually the EV will, on a mile per mile basis, be more environmentally friendly.  Again, that depends on how much electricity will be generated by more environmentally friendly means. At present in the US, about 75% of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. Makes it tough for the EV to make up the deficit.   If/when the power grid becomes eco-friendly, the case for EVs will be stronger.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

.........so no actual answers to very valid questions, then?  Just feeble attempts at humour. 

 

But in all seriousness, I am not against EVs at all. But they are not the solution (yet).   To put it simply, manufactuing an EV is far more damaging to the environment than manufactuing a gas powered car.  There are also potential hazards due to the chemicals used. There are also political/social considerations as many of the major components of EVs are produced in countries with abhorrent human rights records. 

 

The hope is that, over time, that deficit will be made up and eventually the EV will, on a mile per mile basis, be more environmentally friendly.  Again, that depends on how much electricity will be generated by more environmentally friendly means. At present in the US, about 75% of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. Makes it tough for the EV to make up the deficit.   If/when the power grid becomes eco-friendly, the case for EVs will be stronger.

I’m not at all convinced that the impacts of producing EV’s is anywhere near as bad as the impacts of producing Internal Combustion Engines.

 

The boundary needs to be drawn around the whole system, including the impacts of the oil and gas extraction/production.

 

wrt to EV’s in the UK (subject of this thread), electricity generation from fossil fuels is a little over 46% and declining.

 

EV’s are here to stay.

 

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m not at all convinced that the impacts of producing EV’s is anywhere near as bad as the impacts of producing Internal Combustion Engines.

 

The boundary needs to be drawn around the whole system, including the impacts of the oil and gas extraction/production.

 

wrt to EV’s in the UK (subject of this thread), electricity generation from fossil fuels is a little over 46% and declining.

 

EV’s are here to stay.

 

 

 

 

Really? This website says that only 33% is from renewable sources. Leaves 67% fossil fuel.

https://www.edie.net/what-did-the-uks-electricity-generation-mix-look-like-in-2022/#:~:text=Here is the National Grid,Nuclear%3A 15.5%

 

As for the vehicles themselves, the big problem is the battery and what is needed to produce a single battery for a single EV.

 

Today, a typical EV battery contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.

 

https://issuesinsights.com/2022/06/13/is-it-unethical-to-buy-a-vehicle-powered-by-a-lithium-battery/

 

I dont disagree that they are "here to stay". But I DO disagree that they have any appreciable effect on the problem of global warming. And also that too many people are pollyannas and do not know the environmental impacts that EVs create.  At the moment they are just an expensive form of virtue signalling.

[Kwasaki]

Hydrogen or nuclear power hoovering cars will be the best. 

 

They can build houses on the roads then to alleviate the shortage.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Kwasaki

[Chomper Higgot]

52 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Really? This website says that only 33% is from renewable sources. Leaves 67% fossil fuel.

https://www.edie.net/what-did-the-uks-electricity-generation-mix-look-like-in-2022/#:~:text=Here is the National Grid,Nuclear%3A 15.5%

 

As for the vehicles themselves, the big problem is the battery and what is needed to produce a single battery for a single EV.

 

Today, a typical EV battery contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.

 

https://issuesinsights.com/2022/06/13/is-it-unethical-to-buy-a-vehicle-powered-by-a-lithium-battery/

 

I dont disagree that they are "here to stay". But I DO disagree that they have any appreciable effect on the problem of global warming. And also that too many people are pollyannas and do not know the environmental impacts that EVs create.  At the moment they are just an expensive form of virtue signalling.

“

2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources.”

 

This 2020 figure excludes Nuclear (25% of all electricity generation) and since the data comes from National Grid.com I’m inclined to believe it.

 

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

 

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-t-z/united-kingdom.aspx

[Longwood50]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Explain what pollution is created in energy transmission?

Chomper

1. if you have wind, solar, or hydro electric.  Did you ever consider the pollution created by the construction of the solar panels, wind turbines, or hydro electric dam.

2. That power is created in a region often far away from the electric power company that has the grid to distribute it to home or business.  Maybe you have not noticed the poles that are strung to hang the electric wires. 

3. Those poles then have transformers The World Health Organization cautions that those who live within a mile of a high voltage transformer could develop neurological disorders. Exposure to electromagnetic field waves, even weak ones, can impair the brain's chemical balance and ability of the immune system to fight diseases.

4.  Those transformers have oil which is mostly polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) which is responsible for producing toxicity in humans. Chronic exposure with PCB may cause some toxicity such as hepatotoxicity and neurotoxicity.

 

5. Now perhaps again since you didn't notice the poles, you might have missed the wires hanging from the poles. The metal inside those wires is mostly Aluminum Steel which guess what has to be manufacturered and creates pollution to be produced. 

6. Perhaps you missed it but those electric wires are coated.  That coating is PVC is the most environmentally damaging plastic. The PVC lifecycle -- its production, use, and disposal -- results in the release of toxic, chlorine-based chemicals. These toxins are building up in the water, air and food chain.

7. Energy from wind, solar, and hydroelectric is generated and if not used it is wasted.  Unlike hydrocarbons that can be stored, excess electricity sent to a power company can only be retained by the use of batteries.  Neither efficient, and extremely toxic to produce. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Chomper

1. if you have wind, solar, or hydro electric.  Did you ever consider the pollution created by the construction of the solar panels, wind turbines, or hydro electric dam.

2. That power is created in a region often far away from the electric power company that has the grid to distribute it to home or business.  Maybe you have not noticed the poles that are strung to hang the electric wires. 

3. Those poles then have transformers The World Health Organization cautions that those who live within a mile of a high voltage transformer could develop neurological disorders. Exposure to electromagnetic field waves, even weak ones, can impair the brain's chemical balance and ability of the immune system to fight diseases.

4.  Those transformers have oil which is mostly polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) which is responsible for producing toxicity in humans. Chronic exposure with PCB may cause some toxicity such as hepatotoxicity and neurotoxicity.

 

5. Now perhaps again since you didn't notice the poles, you might have missed the wires hanging from the poles. The metal inside those wires is mostly Aluminum Steel which guess what has to be manufacturered and creates pollution to be produced. 

6. Perhaps you missed it but those electric wires are coated.  That coating is PVC is the most environmentally damaging plastic. The PVC lifecycle -- its production, use, and disposal -- results in the release of toxic, chlorine-based chemicals. These toxins are building up in the water, air and food chain.

7. Energy from wind, solar, and hydroelectric is generated and if not used it is wasted.  Unlike hydrocarbons that can be stored, excess electricity sent to a power company can only be retained by the use of batteries.  Neither efficient, and extremely toxic to produce. 

 

And fossil fuels are completely clean, requiring no transformers, no cables.

 

Link please to;

 

“The World Health Organization cautions that those who live within a mile of a high voltage transformer could develop neurological disorders.“

 

[Longwood50]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And fossil fuels are completely clean, requiring no transformers, no cables.

No fossil fuels are not completely clean.  However if you remember I said we are trading one form of pollution for another.  Those who think their electric car is somehow saving the enviorment forget about the fact that 500,000 gallons of water are required to mine just 1 ton of lithium with is enough to only produce 190,000 cell phones.  They are still using electricity which is generated predomintely by coal, natural gas, and nuclear.  The generation of that electricity creates pollution and its transmission likewise has pollution associated with it.  

So does the drilling for oil, its distilling to gasoline, and its trucking to service station.  However it is a fool who thinks that somehow electric vehicles and the generation of electricity is not without associated pollution. 

Here is the link 

https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/health-risks-with-a-high-voltage-transformer-12280084.html
 

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No fossil fuels are not completely clean.  However if you remember I said we are trading one form of pollution for another.  Those who think their electric car is somehow saving the enviorment forget about the fact that 500,000 gallons of water are required to mine just 1 ton of lithium with is enough to only produce 190,000 cell phones.  They are still using electricity which is generated predomintely by coal, natural gas, and nuclear.  The generation of that electricity creates pollution and its transmission likewise has pollution associated with it.  

So does the drilling for oil, its distilling to gasoline, and its trucking to service station.  However it is a fool who thinks that somehow electric vehicles and the generation of electricity is not without associated pollution. 

Here is the link 

https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/health-risks-with-a-high-voltage-transformer-12280084.html
 

That’s a link to a newspaper article that excludes all supporting references.

 

It’s utter nonsense.

 

 

[Longwood50]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s utter nonsense.

How many links would you like? 

Is it a slam dunk, no but then again neither is global warming.  

 

https://www.safespaceprotection.com/news-and-info/exposure-to-power-lines-linked-to-cancer/

https://letstalkscience.ca/educational-resources/stem-in-context/does-living-near-high-voltage-power-lines-cause-cancer

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/radiation-electromagnetic-fields

https://www.bmj.com/content/330/7503/1290?ehom=
 

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/electromagnetic-fields-fact-sheet#what-do-expert-organizations-conclude-about-the-cancer-risk-from-emfs
 

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

How many links would you like? 

Is it a slam dunk, no but then again neither is global warming.  

 

https://www.safespaceprotection.com/news-and-info/exposure-to-power-lines-linked-to-cancer/

https://letstalkscience.ca/educational-resources/stem-in-context/does-living-near-high-voltage-power-lines-cause-cancer

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/radiation-electromagnetic-fields

https://www.bmj.com/content/330/7503/1290?ehom=
 

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/electromagnetic-fields-fact-sheet#what-do-expert-organizations-conclude-about-the-cancer-risk-from-emfs
 

I checked your first link (checked who owns it) the owner has used a privacy service to hide their identity.

 

So let’s not waste anymore time.

 

Here is your statement:

 

 

“The World Health Organization cautions that those who live within a mile of a high voltage transformer could develop neurological disorders.“

 

Please provide a link to the WHO making that statement, a link from the WHO making that statement.

[KhunLA]