Parental Discipline Of Kids

[simon43]

Sitting at Heathrow airport on my way back to BKK, so here's a topic that is in the news in the UK.

The UK government is debating whether or not to ban smacking of young children (ie kids, not babies or teenagers), by parents as a means of disciplining them.

I've got 3 young kids in the UK, so I'm well aware of how difficult it can sometimes be to 'educate' your children as to the rights and wrongs and things that are ok and things that are not.

My kids are very boisterous, ignore me and their mother, and generally seem rather out of control! (which is probably the case for the majority of UK kids...). So sometimes a 'loving' smack is in order when there is a potential danger that really needs to be brought to their attention.

But what are kids like in LoS, and is such parental discipline required? I have to say that I've yet to see any Thai kids that play up as much as my UK kids. Of course, they play around and have fun, but always seem to respect their parents. OK, I'm sure this is not true when they are teenagers, but that's the case all over the world

Anyone got some insight into this? When I have my next load of kids, will they be little monsters, or will they be sweet Thai kids who love their ma and pa???

[Darknight]

since you haven't changed by then , probably your new kids won't either

[maerim]

When I have my next load of kids,

If you PM me I will try to explain what causes them.

As to your original question I am always pleased to see Thai children as they do as they are told and have what children in the west don't have, respect.

I am not sure why this is but I suspect it's a lot to do with American television where the brats on there think it's "cool" to be horrible.

Another reason maybe that these brats don't run wild in supermarkets and having their mothers <deleted> and blinding at them.

I can't stand the little buggers, fat with rotten teeth and red hair.

I think abortions should be able to be backdated, anything up to 12 years would do for starters.

[GuestHouse]

Flogging should be compulsory for all crimes of vandalism, violence and theft. Offenses such as littering, offensive language and causing a public disturbance should be punished by the perpetrator being made to wear a jacket declaring their crime while they sweep streets or perform some other such duty – In the Area where they live.

These punishments should be meted out to anyone over the age of 14 years old, below that age their parents should receive the punishment on their behalf.

Drug pushers should be hung. Drug users should be treated by being locked up with no drugs.

Anyone committing a crime and then claiming they were drunk or under the influence should be charged with two crimes – The crime they committed and the crime of being drunk or under the influence.

Replacing prison/probation and offender assessment with flogging will reveal significant cost savings. These should be used to put more police on our streets and those police together with the courts should be given the powers and the resources to ensure that a criminal who commits an offence is flogged within 24 hours of being caught.

Flogging should of course be public and performed in the place where the crime was committed.

We should all have the right to defend ourselves in our own homes and that should include the right to any force we deem necessary, up to and including lethal force.

The courts should have the right to place curfews on offenders. Curfew breakers should be placed in stocks during the hours of their curfew in a public place.

People who object to the rough treatment of criminals should be placed in an small town reserved especially for them, in which all repeated offenders will be sent to live with their defenders.

[splitlid]

When I have my next load of kids,

I can't stand the little buggers, fat with rotten teeth and red hair.

maerim...you dont have anything against redheads do you???

[john b good]

When I have my next load of kids,

If you PM me I will try to explain what causes them.

As to your original question I am always pleased to see Thai children as they do as they are told and have what children in the west don't have, respect.

I am not sure why this is but I suspect it's a lot to do with American television where the brats on there think it's "cool" to be horrible.

Another reason maybe that these brats don't run wild in supermarkets and having their mothers <deleted> and blinding at them.

I can't stand the little buggers, fat with rotten teeth and red hair.

I think abortions should be able to be backdated, anything up to 12 years would do for starters.

Thai children as they do as they are told and have what children in the west don't have, respect.

Whilst they (Thai kids) admittedly do show and demonstrate "respect" do they actually respect.

I would debate that they might not.

It's one thing to do something superficially on the surface but how do you really know that it is genuine.

[Wolfie]

Flogging should be compulsory for all crimes of vandalism, violence and theft. Offenses such as littering, offensive language and causing a public disturbance should be punished by the perpetrator being made to wear a jacket declaring their crime while they sweep streets or perform some other such duty – In the Area where they live.

These punishments should be meted out to anyone over the age of 14 years old, below that age their parents should receive the punishment on their behalf.

Drug pushers should be hung. Drug users should be treated by being locked up with no drugs.

Anyone committing a crime and then claiming they were drunk or under the influence should be charged with two crimes – The crime they committed and the crime of being drunk or under the influence.

Replacing prison/probation and offender assessment with flogging will reveal significant cost savings. These should be used to put more police on our streets and those police together with the courts should be given the powers and the resources to ensure that a criminal who commits an offence is flogged within 24 hours of being caught.

Flogging should of course be public and performed in the place where the crime was committed.

We should all have the right to defend ourselves in our own homes and that should include the right to any force we deem necessary, up to and including lethal force.

The courts should have the right to place curfews on offenders. Curfew breakers should be placed in stocks during the hours of their curfew in a public place.

People who object to the rough treatment of criminals should be placed in an small town reserved especially for them, in which all repeated offenders will be sent to live with their defenders.

Maybe we should re-introduce mud roads, serfs, knights in shining armour and Jousting

What your saying is you want to be back in the dark ages?

[Up2U]

You should meet my (Thai) daughter.

I do not believe in smacking except as an absolutely necessity. Her mother has a much shorter tolerance span than I, and brings our daughter up in the same way she was brought up (kicks and smacks included). Our daughter is bright, full of energy, talks continuously, does not sleep until about ten at night (six years old). But if I say 'No' she knows I mean it and will stop frying the cat, using a whole bottle of shampoo, whatever.

With her mother, she pushes things to the limit and accepts the punishment, when she can't dodge. But everyone in our Condo knows her and say what a lovely, lively girl. (At least to our faces).

I think it depends on the kids. And also on the environment around them. In England the school sports afternoon was abandoned by most schools, I see now that even the two hours each week of PE has been abandoned in many schools (yesterday's Grauniad) and thus kids do not have the natural feeling of being reasonably fit in their bodies. I had the old-fashioned upbringing of two hours in the gym, rugby ach Wednesday and Saturday, plus after-school training. And I played until almost my sixtieth birthday.

My daughter swims, runs around, uses her bike, does not know what McDonalds is. But she does eat bugs.

Kids here have a great time - I would not want a British education, as currently offered by the state system, for any child.

[GuestHouse]

What your saying is you want to be back in the dark ages?

Two years ago my great aunt (aged 82) was attacked by three teenage girls. They took her walking frame from her and bent the legs so she could not use it, emptied her shopping on the road and stole her purse.

That sir, is what I call the dark ages.

That is where f@cking liberal treatment of unsocial behaviour has landed Britain.

What is civilised about allowing law abiding people to live in fear from criminals and hooligans?

Safety and security are humand rights

I say again..

People who object to the rough treatment of criminals should be placed in a small town reserved especially for them, in which all repeat offenders will be sent to live with their defenders.

[Padkapow Guy]

cnn just said that they voted and it is still ok to beat your kids.

[plachon]

You should meet my (Thai) daughter.

I do not believe in smacking except as an absolutely necessity. Her mother has a much shorter tolerance span than I, and brings our daughter up in the same way she was brought up (kicks and smacks included). Our daughter is bright, full of energy, talks continuously, does not sleep until about ten at night (six years old). But if I say 'No' she knows I mean it and will stop frying the cat, using a whole bottle of shampoo, whatever.

With her mother, she pushes things to the limit and accepts the punishment, when she can't dodge. But everyone in our Condo knows her and say what a lovely, lively girl. (At least to our faces).

I think it depends on the kids. And also on the environment around them. In England the school sports afternoon was abandoned by most schools, I see now that even the two hours each week of PE has been abandoned in many schools (yesterday's Grauniad) and thus kids do not have the natural feeling of being reasonably fit in their bodies. I had the old-fashioned upbringing of two hours in the gym, rugby ach Wednesday and Saturday, plus after-school training. And I played until almost my sixtieth birthday.

My daughter swims, runs around, uses her bike, does not know what McDonalds is. But she does eat bugs.

Kids here have a great time - I would not want a British education, as currently offered by the state system, for any child.

Your daughter and mine (a 2 yr age difference) sound to have many things in common in their lifestyles and parental attitudes, up until the last sentence. I'm afraid I cannot agree with you over the benefits of a UK state education being less than those for an equivalent in Thai, or even for that matter, a lot of private schools over here.

I can only speak from the experience of my daughter having spent 2 years in a primary school in UK and the last 2 years here. She's an extremely happy girl, adaptable and well balanced between two parental cultures and does well at school. But all three (wife, daughter and me) of us recognise that the UK school is much better in most ways, than the Thai school. Teaching methods, class size, materials, discipline, bullying, parental interest, homework and extra-curriculum choices are just a few of the criteria I would judge them by. Maybe we were just lucky in the UK, but I don't think so. How many Thai state schools have less than 40 kids per class, unless really out in the sticks? At that size, it's very difficult for one person to actually teach very much to young children.

As for discipline, the school prominently displays a motto in Thai and English "Spare the rod and spoil the child", but doesn't seem to adhere to it, although beating doesn't seem to be totally prohibited. I think the old notions of Thai kids being so respectful to adults are fading as fast as junk food is catching on, so I see strong parallels between this thread and the Westernisation one. Ill-disciplined rug-brats are spreading worldwide too!

PS The UK Lords wisely declined to ban smacking in the home, realising that it would quickly criminalise 75 % of the population, which would make it a crazier law than banning smoking weed!

[Wolfie]

Two years ago my great aunt (aged 82) was attacked by three teenage girls. They took her walking frame from her and bent the legs so she could not use it, emptied her shopping on the road and stole her purse.

That sir, is what I call the dark ages.

Those "girls" should be hung, drawn and quartered...

Thats a sick crime

[maerim]

Flogging should be compulsory for all crimes of vandalism, violence and theft. Offenses such as littering, offensive language and causing a public disturbance should be punished by the perpetrator being made to wear a jacket declaring their crime while they sweep streets or perform some other such duty – In the Area where they live.

These punishments should be meted out to anyone over the age of 14 years old, below that age their parents should receive the punishment on their behalf.

Drug pushers should be hung. Drug users should be treated by being locked up with no drugs.

Anyone committing a crime and then claiming they were drunk or under the influence should be charged with two crimes – The crime they committed and the crime of being drunk or under the influence.

Replacing prison/probation and offender assessment with flogging will reveal significant cost savings. These should be used to put more police on our streets and those police together with the courts should be given the powers and the resources to ensure that a criminal who commits an offence is flogged within 24 hours of being caught.

Flogging should of course be public and performed in the place where the crime was committed.

We should all have the right to defend ourselves in our own homes and that should include the right to any force we deem necessary, up to and including lethal force.

The courts should have the right to place curfews on offenders. Curfew breakers should be placed in stocks during the hours of their curfew in a public place.

People who object to the rough treatment of criminals should be placed in an small town reserved especially for them, in which all repeated offenders will be sent to live with their defenders.

Guesthouse

I do believe you are turning into a wishy washy liberal in your old age.

As for me I believe in giving criminals a hard time make em listen to "Sir" Cliff Richard 24 hours a day, then they would know what a criminal record really is.

[maerim]

Whilst they (Thai kids) admittedly do show and demonstrate "respect" do they actually respect.

I would debate that they might not.

It's one thing to do something superficially on the surface but how do you really know that it is genuine.

I don't know if it genuine or not but what I do know I prefer it to what I get in the U.K.

Children and I really do mean children as under the age of ten years they are not criminally responsible for their actions.

Some of these are feral, reverting back to the wild, their mothers don't care for them usually the first one comes along when they are about 15 or so given a council house and a giro book and get married to the state, all of them fireproof.

What you going to do to them, fine them?

Years ago in Manchester there was a one boy crime wave he was arrested many time each day but it was a revolving door as soon as he was booked he was released to carry on his " larks".

Most likely it was not his mothers fault as she was busy smoking cigarettes that I paid for with my taxes and watching day time TV.

The more I think about my idea of backdating abortions the more attractive the idea seems

[Roger13]

The subject of Parental Control

got a bit sidetracked to Schooling?

In my experience Asian & African

children are generally well behaved.

But those brought up in the West

are invariably little brats like their

western counterparts.

That is my observation but I am not

sure what the conclusion should be ...

Roger

[kankaroo]

Guesthouse, in my opinion you are a total prat with no idea of the goings on in society and the REAL world apart from a few bad experiences which have probably jaded you beyond redemption. I agree, the case with your Gran was out of order but that is life. Its morons like you who worm their way into the police force with their retarded ideals and try and change the world - while actually making it worse. I agree society has many problems but your heavy handed proposed tactics would only appeal to the likes of prime minister Thaksin (or Hitler ?? ).

I come from a small town in the UK and have been locked up on a couple of occasions as a teenager for no reson at all. EG: 17 y/o with a couple of mates sharing bottles of cider in the local park on a fine summers evening. CRIME : PERVERSION OF THE COURSE OF JUSTICE (for asking what we did wrong), BREACH OF THE PEACE (for talking too loudly maybe?, the park was empty BTW) AND .....wait for it ....ATTEMPTING TO PERVERT THE COURSE OF JUSTICE.LOL !! ,so 2 seperate charges of attempting to pervert WHILE actually perverting it. Makes for a good CV for potential employment in later life though.

My point is. When people like you actually get into positions of power they screw things up in the world more than they make good usually. I come from a good family background, have lots of great friends and hurt nobody. I am degree educated and I belive, a reasonable bloke but when potential employers deicide to check my background, I'm usually screwed. All because of a couple of GUESTHOUSE type backwater cops. Zeig Heil !

[splitlid]

maybe you should apply for different jobs!!

i was under the impression that the slate got cleaned once the person turned 18 or 21.or if it was a long period of time?

wouldnt have thought that such petty offences would stop you getting a job??

otherwise half(not a proven statistic) of the uk would be unemployable.

[GuestHouse]

Guesthouse, in my opinion you are a total prat

That, I take it you will accept, is your personal opinion.

been locked up on a couple of occasions as a teenager for no reson at all

That, we must accept, is your side of the story.

But as an observation, getting locked up once for doing nothing wrong might be understandable, getting locked up twice would suggest you did not learn the lesson the first time - The lesson being "Don't get caught doing nothing".

Makes for a good CV for potential employment in later life though.

I would have thought that would have been explained to you by your parents.

Or look at another way, two applicants for a job, both qualified to do the job, one with a criminal record...

For your information, I am not, nor have I ever been a police officer.

Don't bite me, go bite your parents, it is they who should have taught you that you don't give police officers sh1t.

Or did your old man never tell you 'Don't hurl rocks at city hall'?

Ah.... but you are the vicitim.... got it!

[GuestHouse]

Kankaroo,

Getting back to my scale of punishments.

Your lark in the park would have probably warrented cleaning duty in the streets of your neighbourhood. I can picture it now, you and your mate sweeping the streets wearing a lime green jacket emblazoned with the words 'Toe Rag'.

At age 17 this might have caused some embarrassment, if not to you then to your 'good family', who knows it might have dawned on you that it is actually better to play by the rules.

There are two upsides that I hope do not miss your notice. Firstly, you would have been spared the encarceration, and the rest of would have been spared the expense.

OK I admit, you would probably have gotten flogged for the second offence, but to be honest if the first punsihment hadn't convinced you or your parents that you needed a little more control then a flogging would probably have been deserved.

And again, it would have been cheaper than locking you up.

[maerim]

Makes for a good CV for potential employment in later life though.

How much later?

As far as I know unless you are applying for a job say with the police whom you so much admiration or working with children how can a prospective employer have access to your police record?

I am sure you will find that after a few years the slate is wiped clean unless you are on parole from a life sentance.

You sound just the type of person and your mates with whom I would love to spend a day in the park with.

and I belive, a reasonable bloke

Zeig Heil !

Sounds very reasonable to me.

[Yohan]

cnn just said that they voted and it is still ok to beat your kids.

This thread sounds to me, like if all children are bad, and all parents are good.

I wonder, where is the limit between discipline and mistreat of children?

We have many cases of misuse...or may I call it crime against children...

What to do with such parents? Or Should they also be flogged?

Who is responsible for injuries? and who is responsible, if children are beaten up, because the parents are alcoholics?

What about beating your wife or your secretary or your dog or cat? You should not do that? Why not, if they are not doing, what is in your mind just now?

Seems to me, children are indeed the most helpless creatures out of it....What age do you want to begin to beat up children? 2-years old? or 5-years old? and up to what age?

Generally said, the problem of criminality is starting at the point, where the law is protecting the criminal more than the victim....

I am not surprised, if such children later on are starting to kick and punch back against the older generation.....

[splitlid]

cnn just said that they voted and it is still ok to beat your kids.

This thread sounds to me, like if all children are bad, and all parents are good.

I wonder, where is the limit between discipline and mistreat of children?

We have many cases of misuse...or may I call it crime against children...

What to do with such parents? Or Should they also be flogged?

Who is responsible for injuries? and who is responsible, if children are beaten up, because the parents are alcoholics?

What about beating your wife or your secretary or your dog or cat? You should not do that? Why not, if they are not doing, what is in your mind just now?

Seems to me, children are indeed the most helpless creatures out of it....What age do you want to begin to beat up children? 2-years old? or 5-years old? and up to what age?

Generally said, the problem of criminality is starting at the point, where the law is protecting the criminal more than the victim....

I am not surprised, if such children later on are starting to kick and punch back against the older generation.....

Yohan, im not sure were talking about beating kids within an inch of their lives.

all its about is a smack across the back of the legs etc if they are doing something naughty,to teach them a lesson.

and no you may not call it a crime against children!!!!

because the government didnt!!!!

[astral]

Whilst they (Thai kids) admittedly do show and demonstrate "respect" do they actually respect.

It's one thing to do something superficially on the surface but how do you really know that it is genuine.

My experience says that they do know how to behave and the respect if genuine.

If they slip up it only takes a little comment like,"Didn't your mother teach you manners?" to bring them back on track.

If anything it goes too far. They take everything as gospel.

If the teacher says something it must be true.

They need guiding to question things, rather than just believing it all!!

[somtaamgaiyang]

Interesting thread.

I whole heartedly agree with the posts bemoaning the lack of discipline in Britain todat concerning kids either in school or in the home.

However, this belief that all asian children are well behaved is an interesting idea.

I believe that thai culture/parenting tends to encourage children to be obedient and that the thai education system encourages children to be obedient. This has the result of creating the patriarchal system of Thai society. Freedom of expression, original thought and inspiration are not particularly valued in Thai culture and the creation of obedience and deference to elders is overwhelming.

I am a father of two young children (loog krung), and I notice this very much in my eldest's schooling and, having realised it will try my absolute best to make sure that my children do not go to schools that stifle their creativity. If this means that they have to throw the odd tantrum or paint on the walls so be it. I am not a believer in blind respect of elders; and as a previous poster mentioned are the kids showing "real" respect?

The happy medium is somewhere in the middle. I believe that all children should be brought up in a relatively disiplined way, however, there is more to bringing up children than discipline and conformity.

Now as for the stories of the way that some children behave in UK or other countries, it is abominable. How to solve it, I care not to try to start thinking about it.

Regards,

STGY

[maerim]

This has the result of creating the patriarchal system of Thai society.

In my opinion this is one of the reasons children, I can only speak of the UK are like they are i.e. out of control as they are hundreds of thousands of them as well are being brought up by single mothers.

How do you explain to these children why their father is not the father of their siblings?

The only men they see are the odd "uncle" who stays for a while then bye bye until the next one turns up.

These brats are bad enough now wait till they are in their teens and twenties any wonder I'm not homesick?

[simon43]

Hey lots of interesting comments to my post! (Sorry because I was snoring on the plane back from the UK...).

My own view is that kids in the UK certainly have far less respect for their parents/elders, when compared to Thai kids. And I'm not looking for blind obedience from my UK kids. An enquiring mind is great in a kid, but I am old-fashioned enough to think that when I say 'no' to them, it's because I mean 'no' and they should abide by what I say.

Unfortunately, what I think doesn't wash with them at all My 'no' is ignored and my UK wife will usually then say 'yes' to them

But I love them to bits (can't say the same about my UK wife )

[Felt 35]

As master so servant!

I guess I’m old fashion. But the children I see both in Europe and Thailand today have no discipline at all.

But then I also shall admit that when I started to serve my military duty I think life got easy!

That’s not mean I had a hard time growing up. I love my parents and are home in Europe at least two times a year and help the old folks.

But must admit I shake my head when someone tell me about politeness here!

[KevinN]

As master so servant!

I guess I’m old fashion. But the children I see both in Europe and Thailand today have no discipline at all.

But then I also shall admit that when I started to serve my military duty I think life got easy!

That’s not mean I had a hard time growing up. I love my parents and are home in Europe at least two times a year and help the old folks.

But must admit I shake my head when someone tell me about politeness here!

I am with you on that, I really do not know where some folks get this RESPECT word they are using all the time,pobly never heard it at home and came here and seen it somewhere and thought "wow cool word", I remember seeing somewhere that showed a pic of some dude crouching down when he went thru a group of people and they said that was the respectful way. Other than that I have seen no respect for anyone or anything in Thailand.

I was taught that to respect someone was to show consideration for that and all people,without consideration you had no respect.

If you have respect for folks,how can you be inconsiderate of them and act as if they aren't even there? Stop and stand and block sidewalks and isles in stores,never hold a door when someone is coming thru right behind you,and never say thanks if someone does hold it, try to run over them on sidewalks with your motorcycle,park on sidewalks,or in the middle of the streets and roads,never off the shoulders,but right in the roads.never ever take your place in line,but crowd in ahead of who ever will let you.

Go in food shops and other places where people set,let your kids run wild,make a lot of noise and disturb people,never pay any attn. to your kids.

But Thais never pay attention to their kids or animals,unless that animal is worth money,then never take their eyes off of it.Kids run wild,dogs and cats run wild,string garbage all over the yard and street,shit in the street and sidewalks,and never pick up after them,cause trouble and bark all nite,and then some folks say,,My MY what respectful folks these Thais is.

They think and run their lives just like they drive and and everyone that has ever been on the roads knows how that is, No one is more important than me,I respect no one.

And my wife is a school teacher,she gets ###### little respect from the students and is in fact,afraid of some of the older boys and I guess she has been threatened more than once, but there is nothing the school system will do,and no kid is ever held back,even if he never comes to school more than 1 day a week and then doesn't need to make very many classes.

[stroll]

I come from a good family background, have lots of great friends and hurt nobody. I am degree educated and I belive, a reasonable bloke

Your choice of avatar suggests differently.

I come from a small town in the UK and have been locked up on a couple of occasions as a teenager for  no reson at all. 

Zeig Heil ! 

Say 'Sieg Heil' loudly in any public place in Germany and you will be locked up a third time for no reason at all.

[anamore]

what a stupid thing to say that children in thailand have more respect than children abroad.

I remenber this woord respect when i was growing up. But it wasn't a genuine feeling. It was fear of breaking the rules in a conservatieve surrounding. Later when I was not depending om my parents anymore and had my own life i learned that I really respected them. It was respect based om love and admiration for the way they where. that same feeling I had for some of my teachers. But for the most of them I was just afraid they would give me bad marks if i would say what I thought.

And thai society is in it's division between higher than... and lower than... and depending from... and depending upon... the kind of society in wich you never know if people do something for real or just because they can't do any other way without suffering for it.

As to children and their behaviour they just reflect what they see/saw during their young years. I blame the parents (even thou we know that some children can get of the good path even with the beste parents, but these are exceptions).

For lots of jobs you need to learn and get diploma's but odd enough to became a parent you just have to get a child. And some people get children as if they where the last piece needeed to compleet the home furnishing.

the children are left up to themselves and to caretakers who don't care. parents don't spend time giving love and guidance. But children are not good or bad by nature. Nurture is needeed.

Some of you can only talk about PUNISHMENT, but that is no solution. A child just like every adult needs love and tenderness, positive attention and people who believe in him/her, even when everything is going wrong, then even more I would say.

selfconfidence and a place in the world is something we all need and younger people even more, because their world changes constantly and they don't have the certainties older people have. They also need examples not sermons, and understanding not agressivity. If they get the good things from the parents and sorrunding they will also accept punishement and teachings,. But with negativity alone you can't make anything/anyone positive.

Also enough space to make some mistakes and learn from it is important.

where did I get this? life and experience have thaught me a lot and my 3 kids in their twenties who love their parents and say we did a good job. Even their friends always enjoyed being around in our home and talk about things they wouldn't dare to talk with their parents. From all of them I have learned many things even now I stil do.