Helmet Law

[sceadugenga]

Me: Why don't you wear a helmet?

Wife: No need in Village.

Me: Does every one have a licence here?

Wife: No need in Village.

Me: Look at that kid on the motorbike, she can't be more that nine yeas old!

Wife: No problem in Village.

Wife: You think too mutt.

[p1p]

I am no fan of helmet laws because I know that they do not save lives overall. I also know that any strongly contentious issue has a truth that lies somewhere in a middle ground between the extremes of opinion.

Helmets do save lives. Helmets also take lives. And the latter tends to be more frequent no matter how you may feel about it emotionally. The road to improved safety lies in intellegent and aware riding and certainly not in developing an over-confidence that a helmet is going to protect you when you or someone else does something stupid.

Please give links to academic papers and reputable statistics before you make such claims. Meanwhile, wear a helmet and save your life.

why don't we all go out and buy bikes with airbags, and roll cages! or better still, if you are worried about safety issues, buy a car! biking is about freedom, it is about the wind in your hair and your face, and you cannot experience this while wearing a helmet. sure, if you are on the track, or flat-out on your sportsbike, you need a helmet, but if you are just going out for a putt,enjoying the countryside and the fresh air, a helmet spoils the whole experience. i would rather be a free idiot, and enjoy my ride to the full, than be forced to wear a "head condom"

According to the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, motorcycle helmets are 67% effective in preventing brain injuries, while motorcyclists without helmets are three times more likely to suffer brain injuries than those with helmets. Furthermore, helmets reduce the likelihood of a crash fatality by 37%. Similar statistics are reported around the world where helmets are in common use.

Bicycle statistics are even more interesting. Depending on the researching body, the statistics show that wearing a helmet can reduce your risk of death or serious brain injury from anything between 45% to 87%.

There are no authoritative statistics that show wearing a helmet makes having an accident more likely.

I repeat again: Wear a helmet and save your life.

[p1p]

Further to the above. Have a thought for your close family and friends. They are the ones who will have to spend the next XX years looking after you when you are an incontinent, gibbering idiot, unable to look after yourself because half your brain was needlessly destroyed because you like the freedom of wind in your hair. Might just as well go bungy jumping and forget to tie on the chord.

[madjbs]

I would have to say I agree that wearing protective gear does make an accident more likely, however the protection it provides by FAR outdoes the increased likelyfood of having an accident.

People will generally be more confident when they are wearing protective stuff which will lead them to drive that bit closer to the edge, which makes an accident more likely. Also cheap helmets can efect visabiliy but only slightly.

I do still think people should wear them as the benifits outweigh the disadvantages 100 to 1.

Jake

[PeaceBlondie]

I apologize if my comments were not moderate, but this is an emotional issue. However, as p1p has already pointed out, there is ample scientific evidence, statistically proven, that shows that properly designed, properly worn helmets save lives. Also, there is no scientific evidence to the contrary.

It reminds me of the 1960's arguments that lap belts alone weren't safe enough, and all cars should have shoulder belts as well. That's settled. The only argument left in the helmet area, by the experts, is whether the Snell Foundation standards are too harsh (hard), while the American and European govt. standards are acceptable. However, what we have here in Thailand is virtually no standard at all.

Which brings me to the Nolans that I buy at Prida, in Chiang Mai, at 1500 baht per helmet. They have no labels inside, not even country of origin, no sticker saying what Thai or international safety standard they meet. But mcgriffith checked mine out last week and we agreed it looks good, far safer than an Index.

[john b good]

So what are the posters (the ones who like the wind in their hair, and those that say wearing a helmet is likely to cause you to be in an accident) saying ?

Does wearing a seat belt in a car make it more likely that you will have an accident "because you are gonna drive more confidently"

It has been proven and demonstrated in many many case histories and surveys / & reports that the wearing of a crash helmet (and seat belts) save lives.

If those that like the wind in their hair and are vegetated in the event that they are involved in an accident, I say the same thing "som nam naa"

Nuff said.

[higgy88]

I really don't want to get into a discussion as to the pros and cons of wearing a helmet as I believe that people will do what they want regardless of what others tell them to do. But I would really like some feedback from the "pros" out there in TV land as this is something I have always thought to be true. Full face helmets do offer the best protection in case of an accident, BUT.....

The first thing a concerned bystander wants to do to help the motorcycle rider laying on the ground is to take off his helmet. I have always thought that this is a big no no, especially if he is unconsious and/or is wearing a full face helmet, as removing the helmet can cause [additional] neck and/or spine injuries. Most, if not all, of the ERs in hospitals and/or emergency vehicles sent to accidents in the U.S. are specifically trained to properly remove the helmet and are usually equipped with a small saw whose purpose is to cut the helmet into two pieces so each piece just falls off. It is just my guess, but I would say that most, if not all, of the hospitals and emergency vehicles here in Thailand cannot properly remove a full face helmet from an unconsious person, and that is why I wear a 3/4 helmet while riding here but I wear a full face helmet in the US. Any comments out there from the guys who are in know?

[madjbs]

Did I ever say that helmets dont save lives? I said they provide protection which far outweighs any incresed risk in crashing. Im not saying dont wear them, im just pointing out that they do probably make a crash more likely but you sould 100% wear one anyway. And if you dont think wearing protective gear make people more confident then you are wrong. A good example is many sports wear people may not attempt a certain "stunt" etc.... if they arnt wearing protective gear. If they dont perform this "stunt" then they carnt get injured can they! Most people dont drive around doing stunts on their motorbikes however so the disadvantages are massively reduced as the accident rate wont be as high.

Anyway the argument is completly worthless as you should wear one anyway.

[p1p]

This is leading us off topic. But the problem in Thailand is that the blood wagon crews have little or no training in first aid and CPR, and carry little equipment of use in an incident.

The most important thing to do in the case of an accident is to immobilise the patient as completely as possible. Without specialised back-boards etc, utilise whatever is available. An old door, a couple of bricks and lashings of duct tape are all that is really needed to ensure the patient's safety and to get them to hospital without further damage.

The blood wagon crews almost always compound damage caused by the accident and will continue to do so unless they receive proper training. Some few years ago we tried to arrange to set up training in paramedic first aid, CPR etc. for the blood wagon crews. After some six months negotiation, we were turned down by the doctor with whom we were talking with the words "The powers that be prefer to let people keep dying in the Thai way, rather than accept Farang training."

[Dustoff]

I am no fan of helmet laws because I know that they do not save lives overall. I also know that any strongly contentious issue has a truth that lies somewhere in a middle ground between the extremes of opinion.

Helmets do save lives. Helmets also take lives. And the latter tends to be more frequent no matter how you may feel about it emotionally. The road to improved safety lies in intellegent and aware riding and certainly not in developing an over-confidence that a helmet is going to protect you when you or someone else does something stupid.

Please give links to academic papers and reputable statistics before you make such claims. Meanwhile, wear a helmet and save your life.

This could easily turn into a thread that goes on forever or will end up closed down due to either over-emotionalism or because it begins to bear little relevance to riding in Thailand.

There are helmet laws in place in Thailand whether we like it or not. I do not like it but choose to wear a helmet when I ride in town/traffic at slow speeds (the only place a helmet MAY be of some overall benefit) and because I just don't want to have to put up with being hassled/pickpocketed by the local police.

Let's face it, even those people who disagree with helmet freedom of choice are wearing a helmet by choice; because that is what they are the most comfortable doing and it fits with their beliefs as to the benefit of doing so. I applaud their dedication to their beliefs and wouldn't think to change them in any way. Not my job.

I do however object to others becoming outwardly prejudicial and judgmental (I hope there are religious evangelists listening) when I happen to express a differing opinion. I am not an idiot, do not deserve to suffer a fatal accident because others may think that I am an idiot, and am unlikely to go out into the street and bash my face against the pavement until rendered unconcious to teach myself the lessons of Lord Helmet. Sorry CB

There is certainly little we can do about the laws of a country that is not our own but that does not prevent us from educating ourselves and realizing that there are far more dangers in our pre-concieved notions than simply wearing or not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle - or in the case of the person who fell off a motorbike which was not moving at all, while sitting down.

HELMETS FOR THE SEATED!

Intelligence, education, awareness. I have ridden motorcycles over much of the world since I was 15 (52 years now) and have yet to lay one down or allow some reckless nitwit to put me down (excuse me for a moment while I find some wood to knock on..).

The link below is at least a beginning but far from all the facts that are out there about the benefits, and dangers, of helmet use (and simple reason tells us that there are both, of course):

Brain Bucket Stats...

Ride safely, my fellow riders

Post edited becuz I dont spel so pretty good...

Edited July 3, 2007 by Dustoff

[mcgriffith]

I guess everyone's decision to wear, or not wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle, is framed by their personal experiences.

Not by what friends, or Governments, or Mom recommends them to do....

SOOOOO...I'll recount just 2 anecdotes of my personal experience that made me decide to wear a "head condom" (Thanks, frikkie, I need a Magnum )

1) I'm working at my first real job, aged 15, at a car wash in Palo Alto, California. Year is 1967. Purpose in working is to save up money to buy....you guessed it....my 1st motorcycle! So I'm wiping down a window, hear a crash noise, look up quickly just in time to see a fellow flying through the air....Turns out he was a kid, test riding a new Honda CB350 from the dealership right around the corner. As he drove by the car wash, a young lady in a small Brit sportscar (MGB, I think) turned across his lane in front of him. He T-boned her passenger side door, flew over the top of her car, landed on his back- and slide head-first into the street curb. No helmet. I don't know if cause of death was broken neck, internal trauma, who knows....all I know is, his brains were on the street....and he wasn't wearing a helmet. Made a real impression on me, I can tell you. Did it prevent me from buying a motorcycle, riding it everyday, going on long trips solo through the Santa Cruz mountains, up and down Hwy 1 to Oregon, etc. Nope. Rode everyday then, still ride everyday now. And love it!

2) It's 1978 or so. I'm in Laguna Beach riding up a residential street that goes up a hill. Have full protective gear on, as was my habit. Helmet, leather jacket, jeans, gloves, boots. I have just shifted out of 1st into 2nd, not going fast at all, residential speed limit 25 mph; I'm doing maybe 30 max. I don't even see it coming......a tiny foo-foo dog (that had a history of chasing cars) had got out of it's gated front yard. One moment I'm upright riding up the street on a bright, beautiful sunny California day. The next INSTANT (don't even remember the transition between up and down) I am on my stomach, sliding head-first up the hill (motorcycle on its side in front of me, shooting sparks and plastic everywhere) like a rag doll. WHAT I REMEMBER MOST (my emphasis) is MY HEAD repeatedly smacking HARD on the ground, like....WHACK....WHACK.....WHACK....WHACK. Final Score: Foo-Foo Dog: a cut lip. Me: Bruises head to toes, shredded jacket, destroyed helmet, ruined bike, etc. But I survived. And had I NOT had that helmet on my head, I can assuredly tell you that I would not be writing this now.

I posit that those who insist on not using a helmet while riding have never experienced anything personally in their lives like the 2 examples I have posted above. Had they experienced something along these lines, I think perhaps they might have a different perspective on this issue.

Respectfully,

McG

[PeaceBlondie]

Just a quick reply to Dustoff: I do not wish you or anybody else to come to harm in any way. I've had the experiences mcgriffith mentioned - rolling over and over on the grass when I came off my bike at 55 mph, watching the world repeatedly go past my visor, etc. No, I didn't mean to call you an idiot if you don't wear a helmet, but I do kind of sorta think you're ignoring the available evidence that helmets save lives and save brains. I decided in 1962, on the issue of traffic safety, that most folks are either stupid, ignorant or lazy. Present company excluded.

[chuchok]

This is leading us off topic. But the problem in Thailand is that the blood wagon crews have little or no training in first aid and CPR, and carry little equipment of use in an incident.

The most important thing to do in the case of an accident is to immobilise the patient as completely as possible. Without specialised back-boards etc, utilise whatever is available. An old door, a couple of bricks and lashings of duct tape are all that is really needed to ensure the patient's safety and to get them to hospital without further damage.

The blood wagon crews almost always compound damage caused by the accident and will continue to do so unless they receive proper training. Some few years ago we tried to arrange to set up training in paramedic first aid, CPR etc. for the blood wagon crews. After some six months negotiation, we were turned down by the doctor with whom we were talking with the words "The powers that be prefer to let people keep dying in the Thai way, rather than accept Farang training."

Why on earth would anybody have an attitude like that?just amazing!