Help Required

[Nignoy]

Hi folks , we need a bit of help we are hoping to retire to thailand in December, but we have heard so many horror stories, with visas and people being ripped off, the embassieshere in Oz are as much use as a chocolate frying pan!!We would appreciate any help with any form of up to date information from expats living in Thailand,we are no strangers to the country or the people, been visiting thailand since 1962, back in the days before the yanks found Pattaya , no bars or hookers and definitely no hotelsall comments and help appreciated,

Nignoy and wife

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hi folks , we need a bit of help we are hoping to retire to thailand in December, but we have heard so many horror stories, with visas and people being ripped off, the embassieshere in Oz are as much use as a chocolate frying pan!!We would appreciate any help with any form of up to date information from expats living in Thailand,we are no strangers to the country or the people, been visiting thailand since 1962, back in the days before the yanks found Pattaya , no bars or hookers and definitely no hotelsall comments and help appreciated,

Nignoy and wife

Where in Oz do you live Nignoy, and are you married to a Thai ?

[ProThaiExpat]

Basic “retirement” classification questions answered!

Terminology is important in this area!!

Normally, entry into Thailand, from a foreign country is accomplished with a VISA, obtained from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. This visa is called a non-immigrant O-A visa with a retirement classification. The same visa obtained in Thailand is termed a non-immigrant O visa with a retirement classification.

Entry into Thailand without a VISA, is permitted at the airport for thirty days, for aliens from visa waiver countries and is based on an ENTRY PERMIT.

As explained by immigration on their website, VISAS are the sole province of Consulates and Embassies, entities attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Entry into Thailand without a visa, deportation from Thailand and regulation of the length of your stay, including entry and re-entry, are the province of the Department of Immigration, a police agency, staffed by police officers on assignment to the Immigration Department. The officer in charge of the Chiang Mai Immigration Department reminds us publicly, that immigration is a police agency, not a service agency and its function is to regulate, not to provide a service.

There is no such thing as a RETIREMENT VISA.

There is a long stay classification for aliens termed "RETIRMENT" and the requirement to qualify for this classification is essentially a verified Thai bank account of 800,000 Baht (alternatively a pension of 65K Baht) if applying in Thailand and an equivalent sum in an overseas account, or a pension, if applying overseas. Age requirement is being at least 50 years old.

The EASIEST way to get a long stay retirement classification is to do it in Thailand on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building in Bangkok.

For some, the benefits of going through the additional hassle of obtaining the O-A in your home country is the comfort of having your immigration status finalized before you move to Thailand for retirement and the fact that you can move your household goods into Thailand without paying duty. (Make sure your shipping cost justify your shipment of goods easily replaced in Thailand at very reasonable prices)

The difficulty in obtaining this classification abroad is the differing requirements from Consulate to Consulate and Embassy to Embassy and the far more stringent requirements than in Bangkok. Sydney’s consulate told me in no uncertain terms that each Consul General had the right to interpret the regulations any way they want, and in Sydney, I needed a police clearance certificate from my home country, among many other things. Cambodia said forget it, don't even try.

The “long stay” retirement classification is based on a NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA (retirement) in Thailand (O-A abroad) and a change to this visa classification can be accomplished in Thailand on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building in Bangkok only, providing you have entered Thailand with a VISA, even a tourist visa, as was the case with me.

It would appear that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has given the authority to change visa classifications to the Immigration Department in this instance.

Here is an account of an expat doing this in Bangkok at the end of June, 2004

“I had a similiar experience this week at the main Immigration office.

I applied for the one year retirement extension. Apparently this

is not possible with a Tourist visa. So they had me getting in shape

with the stairs. From room 303 back down to the 2nd floor to

change my Tourist to a Non Imm O. Then to 1st floor to pay.

Back to 3rd floor room 303. They scrutinized my docs, asked my

Thai lady questions in Thai and then seemingly approved all my

papers (bank letter (200B), health certificate (380 B at Bumrungrad))

and told me to come back next month when my new 30 day

Non Imm O expires.

It was quite a runaround, but looks like I will have my 1 year

extension later this month.”

Thai immigration’s document “requirements list” is as follows” (obtained from their website)

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life

in the Kingdom of Thailand

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. x 6 cm. photograph

4. 1,900 bath application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

- Bank account pass-book, bank statement

- Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

- Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband/wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indication their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the aliens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14, 2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary.

Name Webmaster (203.156.96.*) [ Saturday 15 May 2004 เวลา 16:16 น ] Comment No: 1

To obtain your change of visa classification on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building, you need to take with you a bank letter stating you have the required minimum 800k Baht for the retirement classification in a bank account (anything other than a fixed rate account). The letter should include the date of the transfer of the funds into your account, the source institution of the funds and the country from which the funds came.

The STANDARD BANK LETTER, one that merely states the amount on deposit on any given day is INSUFFICIENT for the change of status process, while it is fine for any annual extension thereafter. This was the case with me, others may have got by with the standard letter.

There is an option to qualify for retirement financial status through pension verification, but that is a very difficult approach, requiring an Embassy verification of the pension. (You need strong pension entitlement or promises to pay letters for the Embassy to get their verification) The difficulty is the individual immigration officer involved may choose to explore the stability of the source of your pension. Conceivably, the pension could be terminated or suspended for a number of reasons during the year and you would then be left penniless, if no other funds were available. Thus a savings account in Thailand in addition to qualifying with a pension is a better approach if you can manage that. A combination of the two also qualify to meet the minimum requirement.

The health certificate that is required is obtainable from any emergency room of any hospital (preferred) or clinic. Exam may not even occur. 50 Baht or more is charged.

Your signature on all photocopies of all documents, including every page of your passport, is required.

4cm x 6cm colored photograph (suggest you take more than one).

No Embassy letter is required unless you are trying to qualify financial responsibility through a pension.

No police or criminal clearance document is required.

Dress very well, be extremely polite, try to keep your head at or below that of the officers involved, don't stand over them when they are seated as that is seen as very intimidating or threatening.

Most importantly, have a mental frame of mind that you will do ANYTHING required of you, including numerous trivial and unnecessary tasks when requested. Your mind set is that you are not going away, you are there to stay the course until the document sought is obtained.

Your first extension under your non-immigrant 0 (retirement) status will probably be for only 90 days. I was given two 90 day extensions and then an extension for the balance of the first year, dated from when I entered the country.

Expect 30 days between the application and the approval, ie. two trips to immigration to allow for processing. After that, extensions can be obtained from any immigration office.

If you anticipate leaving Thailand on occasion in the forthcoming year, it is suggested that you obtain, at the time you apply for your retirement classification, a single or multiple re-entry permit. Once you have your retirement classification and leave the Kingdom, you lose your visa classification and must obtain another visa unless you have a re-entry permit. There is some information to suggest that for a retiree a single re-entry permit is the only one to get, as you lose the multiple re-entry permit after the first exit. I have no personal experience in this regard, as I have always just obtained singles.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions you may still have regarding retirement classifications if you want to PM me or post it.

CAVEAT: Individual discretion is always a factor with immigration police officers, so don’t be shocked if you are required to do other things or produce other documents. Remember, your there to do whatever is required by the individual officer to get your long stay classification. Humility goes a long way and feigning ignorance, even stupidity, will engender sympathy and a helpful attitude on the part of the immigration officer, to the point that he will actually help you to take care of the “problem”.

After sending me back to my bank for more detailed information in my bank letter, the immigration officer still wanted more and “volunteered” to obtain it by fax from the bank. Why he didn’t offer that at first, suggests that he was impressed with my attitude and willingness to do whatever was required and once seeing that, “volunteered” to help.

[12call]

Troll

[JohnnieWalker]

ProThaiExpat!

Humility goes a long way and feigning ignorance, even stupidity

Really?

[Chaz]

MY advice, DON'T RETIRE TO THAILAND! Go to Malaysia instead. At least there you can own a house and the land it stands on in your own name as a foreigner. And Malaysians are much, much more friendly than Thais.

[thaiflyer1]

MY advice, DON'T RETIRE TO THAILAND! Go to Malaysia instead. At least there you can own a house and the land it stands on in your own name as a foreigner. And Malaysians are much, much more friendly than Thais.

Malaysians more friendly than Thais, give me a break............ dont know where you have been in Malaysia but the ones ive met in Penang are anything but friendly! Its good for a visa run period.

[Yohan]

MY advice, DON'T RETIRE TO THAILAND! Go to Malaysia instead. At least there you can own a house and the land it stands on in your own name as a foreigner. And Malaysians are much, much more friendly than Thais.

Both has pro and contra....

Visaformalities are easier in Malaysia, to own property however: not all property can be bought by a foreigner, and if yes, he must already be a holder of a retirement-visa (so-called 5 years permanent tourist, silver-hair program)

Malaysia is more expensive all in all, public transportation is poor, you need your own transportation... also little suitable housing available.... and so on....

Not many people decide for Malaysia to retire.... however popular destination for retirement for Japanese golf-players.....

I was also considering Malaysia first, checked out also Philippines, but Thailand is MAYBE the best choice for most foreigners all in all.

About friendly Malaysians:

Who is a Malaysian? MuslimMalay, Chinese Buddhist, Indian Hindu....

Quite mixed population there...Depends whom you meet....but usually people in Malaysia are very helpful and communication is much easier, as good English is widely spoken.

Generally said, these two countries are quite different from each other....

Best check both, before you decide...

[Yohan]

MY advice, DON'T RETIRE TO THAILAND! Go to Malaysia instead. At least there you can own a house and the land it stands on in your own name as a foreigner. And Malaysians are much, much more friendly than Thais.

PROPERTY CANNOT BE BOUGHT SO EASILY BY FOREIGNERS AND CANNOT BE SOLD WITHIN 3 YEARS....

MANY RESTRICTIONS IN MALAYSIA!

1. Foreigners are not allowed to purchase any residential properties as follows

Double/single-storey terrace or linked houses

Low cost and medium cost houses

Low cost and medium cost flats

Houses on Malay reserve land

Bumiputera-quota units

2. Foreigners are allowed to purchase

Terrace or linked houses above 2 storeys, but limited to 10% of the total number of units built of its type. It must worth RM250,000 per unit and above OR as followed to the respective State's Guidelines.

Lands/bungalows and semi-detached houses, but limited to 10% of the total number of units built of that type. It must be worth RM250,000 per unit and above as exercised by respective State's Guidelines. If the purchase of land is for investment purposes, they have to establish a local company with 49% Malaysian (inclusive of at least 30% bumiputera) equity for that purpose.

Condominiums or apartments worth RM250,000 and above, but limited to 50% of the total number of units built within each block.

3. Foreign individuals (including husband and wife teams) are not allowed to own more than 2 residential units (either condominiums OR one condominium and one non-condominium). Foreign interests will not be allowed to purchase more than one non-condominium residential property. Those who wish to own more than 2 units are considered for investment purpose and therefore must establish a local company with 70% Malaysian equity (inclusive of at least 30% bumiputera equity) for that purpose.

[walker]

PTE: You seem to say, unequivically, that the "O" I currently have can not be given a retirement categorization anywhere except Bangkok. Next week, we (the wife & I) are off to Chiang Mai to move in. I somehow had the notion in my head that the categorization could be obtained in Chiang Mai. Not true?? One more question: How long should/must I wait prior to getting a retirement classification. I only care because I don't want to have to pay any more at customs than I have to (I'm shipping a 7'x7'x4' container of personal effects, all used), which I can time the arrival of. Thanks walker

[dr_Pat_Pong]

PTE: You seem to say, unequivically, that the "O" I currently have can not be given a retirement categorization anywhere except Bangkok. Next week, we (the wife & I) are off to Chiang Mai to move in. I somehow had the notion in my head that the categorization could be obtained in Chiang Mai. Not true?? One more question: How long should/must I wait prior to getting a retirement classification. I only care because I don't want to have to pay any more at customs than I have to (I'm shipping a 7'x7'x4' container of personal effects, all used), which I can time the arrival of. Thanks walker

Walker. What is the basis for your multiple O visa ? Is your wife Thai, or are you 50 years of age ? You should be aware that you will be caught for duties if your goods arrive before you have a one year extended visa.

[Up2U]

PTE: You seem to say, unequivically, that the "O" I currently have can not be given a retirement categorization anywhere except Bangkok. Next week, we (the wife & I) are off to Chiang Mai to move in. I somehow had the notion in my head that the categorization could be obtained in Chiang Mai. Not true??

Exactly the point I was going to take up.

Rattaya Immigration Police have a counter for one-year extensions. As far as I know, it gives the extensions on basic 'O' visas, whether retirement or marriage.

It may have been a small mistake in an otherwise very well set-out response.

The one year extensions are given in the last 30 days of your total visa period (either a three-month visa or a one-year visa given by the Consulate abroad). No point in applying before that last 30 days - I tried and was told to wait.

[Boon Mee]

And while the food doesn't really suck in Malaysia, it ain't as good as LOS!

...and the women are Muslum!

[ProThaiExpat]

Walker and Up2U: As indicated in my canned post, reviewed by lopburi3 and Dr. Pat, terminology is important.

Extentions to non-immigrant O or OA visas for a year are obtainable in almost any immigration office, however a change of visa designation from tourist to non-immigrant O is only possible in BKK as stated in my post, although there has been some loose talk that someone did it elsewhere. If the immigration computer is online linking all immigration offices, there is hope it can be done in any office, but so far, no one has said definitively, that they changed visa status from tourist to non-immigrant O anywhere other than in BKK.

Up2u speaks of an extention, not a change of status is his post. Please advise if my canned post is truly in error and I will gladly revise it with thanks.

Walker: A close reading of your post suggests you already have a non-immigrant O visa and you merely want to get an extention for a year based on retirement criteria. I have no personal experience in this regard, but I see no reason why you couldn't obtain an extention based on a different criteria in any immigration office, since you are not seeking a change in visa clasification, ie. from tourist to non-immigrant O, the basis of my canned post, but merely a change in the grounds upon which the extention is granted.

[lopburi3]

All extensions of stay are done in Bangkok so any office should be able to take/send on the paperwork. But the change of tourist to non-immigrant is not well known so most would probably not want to try. But this seems to be getting more routine so perhaps I am already wrong. I hope so.

The last 30 days of an entry (not total visa period) is the requirement for when to file paperwork for extension of stay. It can be after 60 days of the first entry on a multi entry visa.

[walker]

Sorry for not being more specific. We have our "O"s and are over 55 (just), and only need the retirement category change & extension to a year. What I'm most concerned about is the timing of my personal effects arrival. I believe I need the Retirement categorization for a "reasonable amount" of duty-free used effects. My wife is not Thai. It was my understanding that I could obtain the retirement category in Chiang Mai, receive my goods in Chiang Mai and live happily ever after. Is this only an illusion? Thanks for the help

[ProThaiExpat]

walker: Your "just 55" remark suggests that you think the old 55 age requirement for retirement is the law, now so, 50 is the age requirement now.

I have no personal experience in shipping personal effects, but have a neighbor who did it. Much "tea money" eases the way and there are many rumors regarding what it allowed duty free.

Most expats bring very few personal effects with them as most furniture and house fixtures here are relatively inexpensive and shipping is costly. When in doubt, don't ship it.

Your plan, as last posted sounds doable. Good luck and welcome to Chiang Mai.

[Yohan]

And while the food doesn't really suck in Malaysia, it ain't as good as LOS!

...and the women are Muslum!

Better together with some Muslim women, than to be married to a Feminazi....

And you are right, for sure, all in all Thailand is the best choice in SE Asia

You may BUY a cheap condominium even as a tourist (this is nowhere allowed in Asia, as far as a know, except in Thailand)

You may stay for a longer period for retirement and enjoy a cheap and peaceful life among the Thais

You may feel secure everywhere in Thailand even if the Thais see, you are a foreigner and this even in remote areas.

[phuketrichard]

I live in Phuket, if you already have a non-immigrant type "o" visa or "b" and your over 50 you can get a 1 year retirement visa, ( extension) in 15 minutes for 1,900 baht.

you need to show them a medical clearence (cost 60 baht)

your bank book with 800,000 in it and a bank statement from the bank saying the same ( cost 200 baht from bangkok bank where my account is)

2 pics and copies of your passport pages

Re-entry permits are 1,000 for single entry or 3,900 for mutipile re-entry

I just got my 3rd 1 year exptension last month no problem.

PS, your wife, ( whatever nationality she is) and any kids, can get the same extension as you with the money in your account even if she is not 50!!! I have many friends that have done that.

[Boon Mee]

I live in Phuket, if you already have a non-immigrant type "o" visa or "b" and your over 50 you can get a 1 year retirement visa, ( extension) in 15 minutes for 1,900 baht.

you need to show them a medical clearence (cost 60 baht)

your bank book with 800,000 in it and a bank statement from the bank saying the same ( cost 200 baht from bangkok bank where my account is)

2 pics and copies of your passport pages

Re-entry permits are 1,000 for single entry or 3,900 for mutipile re-entry

I just got my 3rd 1 year exptension last month  no problem.

PS, your wife, ( whatever nationality she is) and any kids, can get the same extension as you with the money in your account even if she is not 50!!! I have many friends that have done that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but read somewhere - maybe it was dr. PP who passed this one on - if you're obtaining a non-Imm. "O" visa w/supporting wife, the bank balance is 400K?

Can anyone confirm?

Cheers,

Boon Mee

[walker]

I live in Phuket, if you already have a non-immigrant type "o" visa or "b" and your over 50 you can get a 1 year retirement visa, ( extension) in 15 minutes for 1,900 baht.

you need to show them a medical clearence (cost 60 baht)

your bank book with 800,000 in it and a bank statement from the bank saying the same ( cost 200 baht from bangkok bank where my account is)

2 pics and copies of your passport pages

Re-entry permits are 1,000 for single entry or 3,900 for mutipile re-entry

I just got my 3rd 1 year exptension last month no problem.

PS, your wife, ( whatever nationality she is) and any kids, can get the same extension as you with the money in your account even if she is not 50!!! I have many friends that have done that.

Phuket Richard, Thanks for the info. Question: Do you know what happens if you get a single entry visa and due to unforeseen events, need more than one entry? Question 2: Did you get your retirement classification in Phuket? Question 3: Did you wait to get your retirement classification until it was within 30 days of expiration? Thanks again.

Soon to be ChiangMaiRichard

[Up2U]

PS, your wife, ( whatever nationality she is) and any kids, can get the same extension as you with the money in your account even if she is not 50!!! I have many friends that have done that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but read somewhere - maybe it was dr. PP who passed this one on - if you're obtaining a non-Imm. "O" visa w/supporting wife, the bank balance is 400K?

Can anyone confirm?

Cheers,

Boon Mee

If you are supporting a THAI wife, then the 400k rule applies(or 40k per month guaranteed income). But a farang wife is a farang. It is anticipated that you will need more money to support yourself (retirement visa) or yourself and wife (farang)(retirement visa) than it would cost to support a Thai wife.

Where do they get that thinking from ???

[walker]

It is anticipated that you will need more money to support yourself and wife (farang)(retirement visa) than it would cost to support a Thai wife.

Where do they get that thinking from ???

Mabe they've met my wife?

[Boon Mee]

PS, your wife, ( whatever nationality she is) and any kids, can get the same extension as you with the money in your account even if she is not 50!!! I have many friends that have done that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but read somewhere - maybe it was dr. PP who passed this one on - if you're obtaining a non-Imm. "O" visa w/supporting wife, the bank balance is 400K?

Can anyone confirm?

Cheers,

Boon Mee

If you are supporting a THAI wife, then the 400k rule applies(or 40k per month guaranteed income). But a farang wife is a farang. It is anticipated that you will need more money to support yourself (retirement visa) or yourself and wife (farang)(retirement visa) than it would cost to support a Thai wife.

Where do they get that thinking from ???

Thanks up2u. My wife is 3/4 Thai, 1/4 Burmese but holds a Thai Passport so it's 400k for me!

[Up2U]

Thanks up2u. My wife is 3/4 Thai, 1/4 Burmese but holds a Thai Passport so it's 400k for me!

Mine is 100% Thai - a high maintenance job.

Previous wives were Spanish and Polish - lower maintenance, but high selling price at the divorce court. (UK - man always pays - half now, the rest later is a common decision.)