Multiple Computers

[Neeranam]

I have my own computer in an upstairs room and one downstairs that I'm giving to my wife and daughter.

I have a true cable connection.

Can I stick the cable in two computers or do I need t do something more complicated like get a junction box?

Cheers

[Rice_King]

Can I stick the cable in two computers or do I need t do something more complicated like get a junction box?

The "junction box" you refer to is called a "router" in computer lingo Neeranam. If you have two PCs on separate floors, you might want to consider a wireless router to save you from hardwiring your abode.

[Veazer]

You may need to clone your PCs MAC address in the router. My connection was setup to only allow 1 PC in the house to use the connection.

Without it, your true connection may not work because the router's default MAC address will be different from the PC they setup your connection for. After cloning the MAC address, True will see the router as the original PC instead. You'll need to then change the MAC address on the original PC via device manager so that you don't have identical MAC addresses on the same network. Make sense?

Let me know if you need more info.

[Rice_King]

... You'll need to then change the MAC address on the original PC via device manager so that you don't have identical MAC addresses on the same network. Make sense?

Sorry, but that last part makes no sense as it is written.

1. As far as I know, you cannot change the MAC (physical) address of a network device.

2. He will still only have two unique (PC) MAC addresses on his network. The cloned MAC address you refer to is only visible OUTSIDE the router.

Maybe I misunderstood. Can you please clarify?

Edited July 6, 2007 by Rice_King

[stumonster]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

1. As far as I know, you cannot change the MAC (physical) address of a network device.

you cannot change the physical MAC on a network device , but it is trival to spoof if you desire/require.

Neeranam - what is the device you use at the moment to connect to the true ADSL system - does it plug into a usb port or a rj45 network plug on your computer?

True is not going to know how many computers are behind your router - they will only see the routers external IP making requests ( unless they are being really tricky with their bluecoat proxy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Coat_Systems )

at home I have 4 desktops wired to my router and wireless connections to 1 desktop , 2 laptops , and a PDA - I have not had an issue because of this with my True ADSL connection.

[FormasianPaul]

Can I stick the cable in two computers or do I need t do something more complicated like get a junction box?

The "junction box" you refer to is called a "router" in computer lingo Neeranam. If you have two PCs on separate floors, you might want to consider a wireless router to save you from hardwiring your abode.

I wouldn't recommend a wireless router if you are sharing an internet connection between two desktop PC's.

Two Reasons :

1 : Unless you add security (which, if you are not familiar with how this is done, is not easy - so you would need to get someone in) - you will stand a chance of sharing your internet connection with anyone within 20m.

2 : Wireless is NOT as fast as Wire... so you WILL notice some internet speed degridation.. This may not be a major problem if you simply want to use the PC's for some casual surfing and reading of emails, but once you start doing some heavy downloading on one machine and trying to look at something like YouTube on the other (oops, forgot - we can't still!!) then you will only end up getting annoyed...

If you had even 1 laptop I would recommend going wireless (with security to stop the 12 year old next door using your connection to surf for naughty stuff for free!), but seeing as these machines are not going to be moving around too much I would say don't bother - stay wired....

I am guessing, that if you have your machine upstairs with the internet connection from True this is done over your phone line. I will also assume that if you have a phone line upstairs you have one downstairs as well.

If this is the case all you need to do is install a 2nd Microfilter (the small white box that connects between your modem / telephone and wall socket) and a cheap router (about 500baht in Pantip last time I looked). This will allow you to share the same line out to the internet for both machines.

Maybe increasing your current internet speed is a good idea as well, but if you can't envisage your 2nd machine doing that much, it might not be needed...

[Neeranam]

I have no telephone line in the house. I have True cable.

[bino]

Hello Neeranam-

There is a cheaper solution... with some caveats.

If you are only connecting two computers, you don't need a router. You can get your local computer shop to make you a network cable long enough to reach between the two computers. Tell them that you are connecting PC direct to PC, and that the cable must be "Crossed".

Caveats being- you must have the RJ45 network connectors available on both computers. (They look like a normal telephone jack- only bigger). I recall you paosting that you have a new laptop (which I assume would be the computer that you describe as "yours / upstairs"), and it will probably most certainly have a RJ 45 port. Your other computer may or may not. (I'm guessing that it is a desktop pc.) most newer motherboards do have it, but if not you can add a network card to the computer for less than 500 baht.

How does your cable modem connect to the PC? Is it USB? If it is not USB, it is most likely to be a RJ 45 connector.

If the modem connects via a RJ 45, you will need to buy a "network switch" (or hub), which is quite a bit cheaper than a router- again about 500 baht for a small one with 5 to 8 sockets. You would plug the modem and your two PC's into the switch, and set up a PPPoE connection and internet connection sharing on the computer that is connected to the modem. If you end up having to go this route- we can walk you through it easily.

Let us know how your modem connects to the PC, and if your downstairs / desktop has a RJ 45 port. If you're not certain, give us the brand name / model number information about your modem to look up.

Edited July 6, 2007 by bino

[Neeranam]

Hi Bino and thanks.

I can now use the same connection to plug in the cable, so therefore I conclude that it is in fact an RJ45.

I'll go down to the local computer shop and try to get a switch. I suppose it's the same as they use in the internet shop?

Thanks again

[stumonster]

I have no telephone line in the house. I have True cable.

are you sure its not ADSL over a telephone line ?

do you want to give us the make and model of the box that is connected to the "true cable"

and maybe a photo of the back of the box where the cable is connected

[Veazer]

... You'll need to then change the MAC address on the original PC via device manager so that you don't have identical MAC addresses on the same network. Make sense?

Sorry, but that last part makes no sense as it is written.

1. As far as I know, you cannot change the MAC (physical) address of a network device.

2. He will still only have two unique (PC) MAC addresses on his network. The cloned MAC address you refer to is only visible OUTSIDE the router.

Maybe I misunderstood. Can you please clarify?

1. Many network adapters will have a property of 'Locally Administered MAC Address' or something to that effect on the advanced properties tab of the driver. It doesn't physically change the MAC in firmware or anything like that, but for that particular device installation it will be seen as the MAC address specified.

2. You should not use identical MACs on the same network as MACs are used for the traffic routing, as i understand it. Someone with a better understanding of network layers could explain this far better then I. This page HERE seems to give enough reason to avoid it: "... the majority of routers that are posed with an identical MAC address to the router will usually crash and become inaccessible, thus killing all traffic."

[Neeranam]

I have no telephone line in the house. I have True cable.

are you sure its not ADSL over a telephone line ?

do you want to give us the make and model of the box that is connected to the "true cable"

and maybe a photo of the back of the box where the cable is connected

Quite sure. Funny, as everytime I phone true, they ask me the same thing. I have no telephone in my house.

Prestige 900 is on the box.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Neeranam

[sjaak327]

to go really cheap, there is another option, buy an additional Network card for the pc that is hooked to your modem, and use that pc as a router. But in general I would recommend to buy a router, there are not expensive and give you flexibility, if you want to expand your network later on that would be no problem. Also going wireless has it's advantages.

Just to add to your last post, that is a cable modem allright.

Edited July 6, 2007 by sjaak327

[Neeranam]

Am I unusual having True not via a phone line?

[stumonster]

Am I unusual having True not via a phone line?

um - yes

it does look like you do have a cable connection - I didn't know true did them.

you can just use a switch and cat5 cabling to link your computers , but I would probably go a NAT router to save your self the problem of configuring your network , though even this route will require network setup

[stumonster]

on second thoughts you could get away with a crossover connection cat5 cable between the 2 computers and a USB connection to the cable modem if it is a USB connection on your cable modem.

http://us.zyxel.com/products/model.php?ind...alue=1024889003

is this your unit - there are about 3 models of prestige 900 cable modems http://us.zyxel.com/products/category.php?...alue=1024889003

is your computer a laptop with built in wireless ? - if so maybe a usb wifi adaptor for the computer downstairs and an Adhock connection between it and your laptop might be an option.

[opalhort]

Am I unusual having True not via a phone line?

um - yes

it does look like you do have a cable connection - I didn't know true did them.

you can just use a switch and cat5 cabling to link your computers , but I would probably go a NAT router to save your self the problem of configuring your network , though even this route will require network setup

True does have this service for quite some time already but in the past it was under UBC. The signal is hooked up to the TV cable connection.

opalhort

[Rice_King]

1. Many network adapters will have a property of 'Locally Administered MAC Address' or something to that effect on the advanced properties tab of the driver. It doesn't physically change the MAC in firmware or anything like that, but for that particular device installation it will be seen as the MAC address specified.

2. You should not use identical MACs on the same network as MACs are used for the traffic routing, as i understand it. Someone with a better understanding of network layers could explain this far better then I. This page HERE seems to give enough reason to avoid it: "... the majority of routers that are posed with an identical MAC address to the router will usually crash and become inaccessible, thus killing all traffic."

Sorry, I still have no clue as to what you're attempting to do here.

While it is true that you should not have two identical MAC addresses on the same network, the link you referred me to is a page on how to (take the extra steps to) BREAK a network by duplicating a MAC address, causing the router to crash. Since the chances of two devices having identical MAC addresses is astronomical, nobody setting up a network should ever need to do what you're recommending here.

[Veazer]

1. Many network adapters will have a property of 'Locally Administered MAC Address' or something to that effect on the advanced properties tab of the driver. It doesn't physically change the MAC in firmware or anything like that, but for that particular device installation it will be seen as the MAC address specified.

2. You should not use identical MACs on the same network as MACs are used for the traffic routing, as i understand it. Someone with a better understanding of network layers could explain this far better then I. This page HERE seems to give enough reason to avoid it: "... the majority of routers that are posed with an identical MAC address to the router will usually crash and become inaccessible, thus killing all traffic."

Sorry, I still have no clue as to what you're attempting to do here.

While it is true that you should not have two identical MAC addresses on the same network, the link you referred me to is a page on how to (take the extra steps to) BREAK a network by duplicating a MAC address, causing the router to crash. Since the chances of two devices having identical MAC addresses is astronomical, nobody setting up a network should ever need to do what you're recommending here.

What I was attempting to do is make sure there are not two identical MACs on the network. As the author pointed out, changing a PCs MAC to be identical as the router's MAC will cause the router to crash. I assumed that the reverse would be true, that is having the router clone one of the other machines MAC addresses would cause the same failure. I see now what you're saying - the router continues to use it's true MAC address internally after cloning. That would make more sense. I've always assumed that MAC cloning was much less 'intelligent' and functioned in the same way that a network adapter's MAC can be changed. I think I've been taking extra precautions that were not necessary when setting up networks...

[Neeranam]

Thanks for all the replies - to be honest, I'm lost. I;ll probably pay someone to come and do it.

[bino]

The photo is good. Tells everything needed.

I see that the connection to the PC is a RJ 45 network cable. I also see a USB jack on the modem, but I would stick with the RJ 45 (and go with the "Cheap" option below.)

You have several options:

Dirt cheap / easy... figure out how to connect the modem to the computer by USB, and buy the crossover cable I mentioned in my first post. No hub, switch or router needed. You will need to create a new Network connection - there is a Wizard in XP. During the wizard procedure, you can set the connection for internet sharing.

The only downside to this is that the PC that has the shared network connection will need to be on / logged in for the second computer to access the 'net.

Depending on the length of the network cable, and whether or not you need the USB cable to connect the PC to the modem- I imagine that this will cost around 250 to 300 Bt.

Cheap / easier... buy a network switch (hub or junction box in your lingo), a short network cable to connect the PC to the Switch, and a long cable to reach your second PC. Plug the modem into the switch, along with cables from the PC's. There is one easy change to make in your existing Network connection settings to activate internet sharing.

As above, the PC that has the shared network connection will need to be on / logged in for the second computer to access the 'net.

Switch and cables will probably cost you in the neighborhood of 700 Bt.

Better / more difficult / more expensive... buy a router with all of the cabling above. This is better in the sense that the router will manage your connection to the internet, so both PC's do not need to be switched on for the remote PC to get online. The router usually offers some extra security advantages also. The router will involve a bit more complexity to set up and get running.

Wired router and cables will probably cost you approx 1800 - 2000 Bt.

Best / most difficult / most expensive... buy a wireless equipped router. (You won't need the long cable described above.) If your new laptop has wi-fi, which I'm sure it does, you will be free to roam about the house with your laptop and use it anywhere. A wireless router will have all of the same features and setup complexity as a wired router above, but will have further setup procedure for wireless security.

Cost approximately 2500 - 3000 Bt for a decent wireless router and gear.

Let us know which one you end up going with- can help you to explain the network settings to be changed.

Edited July 6, 2007 by bino

[bino]

Since the chances of two devices having identical MAC addresses is astronomical, nobody setting up a network should ever need to do what you're recommending here.

This is correct Neeranam... Don't be confused / intimidated from doing this yourself. It isn't rocket science! You can disregard all of the "MAC address" argument posts above when setting up your sharing. Your laptop, PC, router etc will all have a default MAC address, and will work just fine without having to change or mess with them in any way.

[opalhort]

Thanks for all the replies - to be honest, I'm lost. I;ll probably pay someone to come and do it.

Take it easy and don't be lost. Forget all the talk about MAC addresses etc.

In your case just get a LAN hub or better a LAN switch. Connect your cable modem to the LAN hub/switch using a hub-hub (crossover) cable and then use normal PC to hub cables (one of which you have already) to connect the computers to the LAN hub/switch. You may have to get somebody to make the length of LAN cable you need, costs about 10Baht/mtr.

opalhort

[sjaak327]

The photo is good. Tells everything needed.

I see that the connection to the PC is a RJ 45 network cable. I also see a USB jack on the modem, but I would stick with the RJ 45 (and go with the "Cheap" option below.)

You have several options:

Dirt cheap / easy... figure out how to connect the modem to the computer by USB, and buy the crossover cable I mentioned in my first post. No hub, switch or router needed. You will need to create a new Network connection - there is a Wizard in XP. During the wizard procedure, you can set the connection for internet sharing.

The only downside to this is that the PC that has the shared network connection will need to be on / logged in for the second computer to access the 'net.

Depending on the length of the network cable, and whether or not you need the USB cable to connect the PC to the modem- I imagine that this will cost around 250 to 300 Bt.

Cheap / easier... buy a network switch (hub or junction box in your lingo), a short network cable to connect the PC to the Switch, and a long cable to reach your second PC. Plug the modem into the switch, along with cables from the PC's. There is one easy change to make in your existing Network connection settings to activate internet sharing.

As above, the PC that has the shared network connection will need to be on / logged in for the second computer to access the 'net.

Switch and cables will probably cost you in the neighborhood of 700 Bt.

Better / more difficult / more expensive... buy a router with all of the cabling above. This is better in the sense that the router will manage your connection to the internet, so both PC's do not need to be switched on for the remote PC to get online. The router usually offers some extra security advantages also. The router will involve a bit more complexity to set up and get running.

Wired router and cables will probably cost you approx 1800 - 2000 Bt.

Best / most difficult / most expensive... buy a wireless equipped router. (You won't need the long cable described above.) If your new laptop has wi-fi, which I'm sure it does, you will be free to roam about the house with your laptop and use it anywhere. A wireless router will have all of the same features and setup complexity as a wired router above, but will have further setup procedure for wireless security.

Cost approximately 2500 - 3000 Bt for a decent wireless router and gear.

Let us know which one you end up going with- can help you to explain the network settings to be changed.

Good post, however, the switch option, probably will not work, if true is using PPPOE (which is very likely). And it is certainly not easy to actually make it work in this setup. Therefore buy a router including wifi. It's the easiest and best solution by far.

You connect the modem into the router's wan port, setup the PPPOE inside the router, then connect either both pc's into the lan ports of the router, or connect the Pc on the Lan and use the modem wireless. Most routers come with wizards nowadays, so as long as you know your Password, and user id for True, it's easy to setup. Also the wireless portion is kind of easy to setup. Use WPA2 wherever possible, and a strong passkey, which you enter in both the router and the laptop.

Edited July 6, 2007 by sjaak327

[bino]

Good post, however, the switch option, probably will not work, if true is using PPPOE (which is very likely). And it is certainly not easy to actually make it work in this setup.

It will work. I'm using the exact setup I described...a 500 baht switch with a PPPOE connection to True right now as I type this. The only thing that *might* be different is the fact that I am using a telephone line / ADSL modem instead of a cable modem. I don't have any experience with cable modems, so I can't be 100% certain.

However, I am 99.9% certain, and believe that the cable modem is currently using a PPPOE connection because the picture shows a conection to the computer by a network (ethernet) cable, and ethernet is the E in PPPOE. I'm imagining that if Neeranam went into the properties of his existing PPPOE network connection and activated the Internet Sharing, he would be good to go.

Maybe someone out there who is familiar with cable modems can clear this up?

[Rice_King]

However, I am 99.9% certain, and believe that the cable modem is currently using a PPPOE connection because the picture shows a conection to the computer by a network (ethernet) cable, and ethernet is the E in PPPOE. I'm imagining that if Neeranam went into the properties of his existing PPPOE network connection and activated the Internet Sharing, he would be good to go.

Maybe someone out there who is familiar with cable modems can clear this up?

I can verify that TRUE cable does use PPPOE. That is what I am using. Same ZyXel Prestige modem, etc..

[stumonster]

I'm imagining that if Neeranam went into the properties of his existing PPPOE network connection and activated the Internet Sharing, he would be good to go.

but it would mean that the computer running the PPPoE needs to be on for either computer to access the internet

a router with a PPPoE client is probably the most versatile option - and the cost is not huge

[Rice_King]

a router with a PPPoE client is probably the most versatile option - and the cost is not huge

Well it doesn't really matter now. I think we scared the poor guy with all the "back and forth" regarding MAC addresses, PPPoE, crossover cables, modem, ADSL, cable(?), telephone line(?), hubs, switches, routers, RJ 45.

28 posts and 8 members (and still counting) and everyone here has the best way to do it.

With a smoke screen like this, who can really blame him?

Thanks for all the replies - to be honest, I'm lost. I;ll probably pay someone to come and do it.

Now he'll be at the mercy of yet another "expert."

[Veazer]

I can verify that TRUE cable does use PPPOE. That is what I am using. Same ZyXel Prestige modem, etc..

Do these modems have any kind of web admin page that is accessible by the end user? Mine seems to ignore http requests.

[Rice_King]

Do these modems have any kind of web admin page that is accessible by the end user? Mine seems to ignore http requests.

Try: 192.168.100.1

You will probably have to connect your pc directly to the modem (bypass the router) to get to the web admin page. And make sure you're using a dynamic IP on your local area connection. For insurance, go to the command line and type: ipconfig /renew hit ENTER.

If the modem is using the same IP address I gave you, that will get you to the web admin page. Your modem / router default password.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Rice_King