2 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

Even a pure democracy is undesirable in many ways.  I'd say a more useful complaint is how corrupt a given government is.  We need to measure this objectively, but I'd say just for one thing not allowing officials to personally financially profit from their position would be a good start. 

Yeah it is funny and I hate to use the U.S. but you have to wonder how all these guys that make 100 grand become millionaires.  Then you look at NANCY and her hubby and you start to see a picture.

 

In Canada I am sure it goes on but it is a little harder because every dollar that is spent has to be justified and tallied.  Most of the time CDN MP get theirs after they are done and get positions in companies.  I can remember a lot of military generals and Colonels that got nice positions and jobs on their retirement.  

 

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

There is a lot of talk about freedom here, perhaps one should define it. If you live in any society you are not free, you have basic freedoms given to you by the state but no more. Let us take a young man in any western state;- must you pay taxes, yes, must you obey the laws of your state, even if you disagree with some of them, yes. Is it required that you work for a living, yes, If war is declared would you be called up to fight, yes, If you break an important law of your state would you be imprisoned, yes, are you allowed to express views that could cause offense to others or lead to violence, no, etc. etc.

 

Our constrained freedom, which seems satisfactory to me, is can I choose to work and live where I want to, yes, can I spend my money legally as I choose, yes, am I protected by law from violence or theft, yes, If I am ill will the state look after me, yes, can I choose to leave the state when I wish, yes, is my privacy respected, yes, do I have the right to a fair trial, yes, is there a free press, yes.

 

Anything else is decoration, philosophical banter for an average citizen, who cares who holds high office, PM's, generals, come and go like the seasons. Now of course if I have a state like Myanmar all bets are off, the state is not worthy but it would take courage to rebel, would I find the courage to fight a state from within like Nazi Germany, China, Russia, Myanmar, no I would not. Life is a compromise, there are those, tall like oak trees, willing to risk all, unbending in the pursuit of 'freedom' and then there are small bushes like myself, growing in their shade.

must you pay taxes, yes,

must you obey the laws of your state, even if you disagree with some of them,yes. LOL depends on the state right now I can name a few states in the U.S. tht you do not have to obey the laws California, Illionois, NY are a couple

Is it required that you work for a living, yes,  NO THE GOVERNMENT WILL PAY WELFARE AND SUPPORT YOU 

If war is declared would you be called up to fight, yes,  no MOST COUNTRIES HAVE DONE AWAY WITH THE DRAFT.  ALSO, LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF DRAFT DODGERS OR CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS 

If you break an important law of your state would you be imprisoned, yes,   in manhatten you are free in 30 minutes or less lol

are you allowed to express views that could cause offense to others or lead to violence, YES as long as it is WOKE?

 

lol i know where you are going but could not stop myself from this.  

Yes every country has rules and every culture has cultural norms that should be accepted and followed.

 

BUT every country that is a democracy went through the learning stages.   The issue here is tht this country never gets a chance to learn and to follow the growth pattern that is needed.

 

It is like a baby trying to walk.  the baby gets up and crawls but falls down so mom picks it up and moves the bay where it wanted to go.  Is the baby going to learn to walk if it does not stand and fall.  NO same here

5 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I think a few people here would actually quite like it if the Move Forward Party won.

Not better at all. "The party of the young and future" hahaha yeah, nice "future".

I am not even 30 and if I would be Thai and would be forced to vote, I would vote conservative. 

13 hours ago, h90 said:

It is not the current administration....it is BJ....which is a coalition party, which was also close to Thaksin before. They don't care for the army they care for themself only. And they care when the MF lie about them. They wouldn't have care if they would have lied about Prayuth

Any party that does not care for the army, should be elected. The army is a do nothing, cash sucking institution. I seriously doubt if Thailand gets anything back, or any benefit at all, from the armed forces. 

8 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

The funny thing is that even if they get rid of the PT party the people at are elected will still sit in the government. The trick is what to do with the free seats.  BUT MFP as the defacto winning party if PT disolves will get most of them along wth a deal to give the PT members a home to stay in until this is all regulated.

The Thai people need to re-write the constitution and get rid of the spectacularly corrupt and toxic proxy army senators. At any cost. They have no place in a society that is moving forward, which is the opposite direction this current administration is interested in moving in. 

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Then do it again. And if necessary again.

Maybe one day people will realize that a party should not be run by a criminal. 

The party in power for the last nine years has been run by a criminal who staged an illegal coup. I don't know enough about Thaksin, but I will never believe that he should be in jail any more than the present unelected caretaker PM.

2 hours ago, wealthychef said:

Two things can be true at the same time.  Perhaps he is very attuned and his local village is extremely apolitical and at the same time the region as a whole is more radical and populist (bully for them I say). 

Possible, but likely?

Facts (and reality) are often deliberately ignored or contradicted in this forum by those who despise democracy but lack the courage to admit it.

3 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Look Cha Cha, let the folks get their 10K . After everyone is paid then bring in the tanks.  

The folks won't get their 10k, regardless of who will the next prime minister.

3 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

This is not and i hope it never is a red shirt yellow shirt thing.  Red and yellow is more about a different part of Thailand and has very little to do with the election directly.

 

I would say more but the MOD GODS are watching lol

There is a regional aspect. However, It is also directly related to elections. The yellow ones protest in order to block elections, or an election winner, while the red ones protest in order to obtain elections.

The problem for the yellow-green network is to decide which of the two opposition parties they may ban.

 

Even by Thai standards, they cannot decently ban both PT and MF. I would tend to think that MF is more dangerous to them (for reasons I won't evoke directly) so they won't ban PT and will find/create an opportunity to ban MF instead.

7 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

must you pay taxes, yes,

must you obey the laws of your state, even if you disagree with some of them,yes. LOL depends on the state right now I can name a few states in the U.S. tht you do not have to obey the laws California, Illionois, NY are a couple

Is it required that you work for a living, yes,  NO THE GOVERNMENT WILL PAY WELFARE AND SUPPORT YOU 

If war is declared would you be called up to fight, yes,  no MOST COUNTRIES HAVE DONE AWAY WITH THE DRAFT.  ALSO, LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF DRAFT DODGERS OR CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS 

If you break an important law of your state would you be imprisoned, yes,   in manhatten you are free in 30 minutes or less lol

are you allowed to express views that could cause offense to others or lead to violence, YES as long as it is WOKE?

 

lol i know where you are going but could not stop myself from this.  

Yes every country has rules and every culture has cultural norms that should be accepted and followed.

 

BUT every country that is a democracy went through the learning stages.   The issue here is tht this country never gets a chance to learn and to follow the growth pattern that is needed.

 

It is like a baby trying to walk.  the baby gets up and crawls but falls down so mom picks it up and moves the bay where it wanted to go.  Is the baby going to learn to walk if it does not stand and fall.  NO same here

What I was trying to say was that in the main people in Thailand are generally happy and can lead a good life, political freedoms are only important if one is engaged in politics and for the most part people aren't although come election time emotions can run high for a few weeks, afterwards things get back to normal and politics are usually just a foot note for most. As long as one isn't oppressed in daily life I don't care who holds the scepter. Politicians and CEO's have been found generally to be sociopaths and corruption is the norm, in the west it's just better hidden. Every country has its own way of dealing with its society, it has grown organically, even in the west there are huge differences under the umbrella of freedom, most Europeans would be horrified to have to adopt an American way of life for instance. It is wrong to push the standards of one country onto another, shoving democracy down the throats of people who haven't been used to it doesn't work and some countries get by ok with a benevolent dictatorship, stay away from politics (and religion) and one is usually safe.

18 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Keep dreamin’

Democracy is here to stay.

80% of Thais are voting pro democracy, those you support are in a tiny tiny minority.

 

Let us hope so, although it didn't manage it last time it was here to stay!

On 5/9/2023 at 5:25 AM, FarAway said:

Not even mentioning that I heavily dislike Thaksin and his family personally.

Oh dear, you are one of those! 

Never mind. I would sooner have Kermit the Frog running things than what Thailand has had to put up with, and so would 99.999% of Thai people. There is absolutely no argument for the current regime. Digital wallets? What ever are you on about? Do us all a favour and stop posting tat about how you think this country should be run because we’ve had the same rubbish for the last NINE years! 

Edited May 9, 20233 yr by daveAustin

19 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Keep dreamin’

Democracy is here to stay.

80% of Thais are voting pro democracy, those you support are in a tiny tiny minority.

 

I just hope you are right.

All hell is going to break this week before the GE nothing will change unless the party that the junta wants to be in power is voted in once again the peoples voices  will not be listened to same same no different and we know who will be PM that decision has been made 

On 5/9/2023 at 8:37 AM, stoner said:

im not arguing your stance on taksin but......

 

you hit the 0 button a few too many times. taksin did not have 200k people killed in the streets. 

 

i would love to see a link for that if you don't mind. as far as i remember it was around 2500 people. 

Yeah, you're probably right. Parkinsons lol

12 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

This is not and i hope it never is a red shirt yellow shirt thing.  Red and yellow is more about a different part of Thailand and has very little to do with the election directly.

 

I would say more but the MOD GODS are watching lol

Yellow has a very specific place in the iconography of Thai society. That is clearly reflected when it is incorporated into politics.

Off topic posts, Baiting troll posts and personal attacks have been removed. Please stay on topic, stay civil to each other.

53 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Will it still be possible to purchase tin foil when cash is removed?

Not if your social credit score is too low.  That's the whole concern and one of the *overtly stated* purposes of it, is controlling how people spend their money because allowing them that freedom makes them too hard to control.  And yes, it can happen in your country too.  

Burn down the courts and all of those connected if those who hate democracy subvert the will .

19 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The average Somchai knows a hell of a lot more about what’s going on over here than you do.

Thank you profoundly for your expert advice on what I know and what I do not know yet - most gracious of you indeed! 

48 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Thank you profoundly for your expert advice on what I know and what I do not know yet - most gracious of you indeed! 

No need to thank me for stating the obvious.