We keep talking about how bad education is here

[kingstonkid]

Texas high school postpones ceremony after only 5 seniors met graduation requirements

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-high-school-postpones-ceremony-5-seniors-met-graduation-requirements

 

Imagine 5 out of 33 students go through the 4 years of high school and finish with nothing.  This is happening more and more in the states.

 

I am not sure that a lot of countries in the west can harp at Thailands education system anymore.

[OneMoreFarang]

"only 5 seniors met graduation requirements"

 

That sounds to me like there are at least some graduation requirements.

 

As far as I know in some (many? all?) Thai institutions everybody graduates. So having a certificate from any of those means nothing. 

[Purdey]

Parents thought their kid could not attend classes and still pass?

[BritManToo]

36 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As far as I know in some (many? all?) Thai institutions everybody graduates. So having a certificate from any of those means nothing. 

There is an attendance requirement at all Thai government schools.

The girl I took in couldn't progress to her next year as she skipped too much school.

 

Yes, it's true, everyone that turns up gets a passing grade during their free government education which ends age 15 (but that's still only 61% of students from 2019 UNICEF study). At that point 66% of the remaining pupils are culled from the schools as unsuitable for more education and those that continue must pay.

 

Less than 29% of Thai students graduate high school at age 18 (2019 study).

https://data.unicef.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Thailand-Education-Fact-Sheets-2019-EN.pdf

Edited May 27, 2023 by BritManToo

[new2here]

While only 5 meeting standards isn’t a good look (barring an exceptional small class size etc) what i also recognize is that unlike Thailand, there really ARE quantitative academic standards that have to be met - and one usually follows up by some form of testing- there really is no option of “no-fail” which, IMHO, artificially inflates graduation rates and also simultaneously dilutes the value of those same graduates. 

 

So.. i’m reasonably sure those five have have at least met the minimum standards as set by the Texas Education Agency. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by new2here

[Plern]

Education is poor here in Thailand as we all know. Foreign teachers are largely responsible for the failure of students to acquire English in particular. I would estimate that less than approximately 5% of foreign EFL teachers know what they are doing. This isn't quiet quitting, if they were in fact paid more they wouldn't have any more motivation or interest in the position. Competence, ability would not magically appear in their soft, mushy melons.

[Will B Good]

36 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Parents thought their kid could not attend classes and still pass?

Agree.......................The progress, or otherwise, of kids is 99% down to parental support/control/ambition.......it is rarely to do with the educational institute or teachers.

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, Plern said:

Education is poor here in Thailand as we all know. Foreign teachers are largely responsible for the failure of students to acquire English in particular. I would estimate that less than approximately 5% of foreign EFL teachers know what they are doing. This isn't quiet quitting, if they were in fact paid more they wouldn't have any more motivation or interest in the position. Competence, ability would not magically appear in their soft, mushy melons.

Personally, I can tell you that in most cases it is not the teacher's fault.  

First the kids do not want to learn in a lot of cases as they see no need to learn English.

Second the schools themselves in a lot of cases do not care. I worked in a school in PT that told me that only 10% of the student's scores with me were going to count even though I was teaching them the same amount of time as the Thai teachers.

 

Third is the material that they are given to use.  Again I worked for a company that supplied the books and was teaching What your name to Mat 2 students is 

Mat 6 was where did you live.

 

Things are geared to ensure it is easy with no need for the student to learn anything or worry ab out passing.

 

In order to make sure that my students passed the week before the test we reviewed the possible questions.

 

Schools do not care and in most cases the Foreign teacher is oly there for show so that they can make more money frm the parents.

[Plern]

9 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Personally, I can tell you that in most cases it is not the teacher's fault.  

First the kids do not want to learn in a lot of cases as they see no need to learn English.

Second the schools themselves in a lot of cases do not care. I worked in a school in PT that told me that only 10% of the student's scores with me were going to count even though I was teaching them the same amount of time as the Thai teachers.

 

Third is the material that they are given to use.  Again I worked for a company that supplied the books and was teaching What your name to Mat 2 students is 

Mat 6 was where did you live.

 

Things are geared to ensure it is easy with no need for the student to learn anything or worry ab out passing.

 

In order to make sure that my students passed the week before the test we reviewed the possible questions.

 

Schools do not care and in most cases the Foreign teacher is oly there for show so that they can make more money frm the parents.

Sorry, not buying it. Your post is really cynical, defeatest. Each teacher has the power to ignore all of that and come up with creative lessons and content. If a student is bored they will either get on their phones or get into mischief. Trouble is the teachers are not able. They are largely unskilled at anything related to teaching.

[kingstonkid]

24 minutes ago, Plern said:

Sorry, not buying it. Your post is really cynical, defeatist. Each teacher has the power to ignore all of that and come up with creative lessons and content. If a student is bored they will either get on their phones or get into mischief. Trouble is the teachers are not able. They are largely unskilled at anything related to teaching.

Piern you obviously have not taught in a Thai school.  Teachers both Thai and foreign are told what to teach.  Students desire to learn doe snot matter.  

 

Yes I am definitley cynical you stay involved as a teacher in this system for 10 years and see how you feel.

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, it's true, everyone that turns up gets a passing grade during their free government education which ends age 15 (but that's still only 61% of students from 2019 UNICEF study). At that point 66% of the remaining pupils are culled from the schools as unsuitable for more education and those that continue must pay.

Incorrect. Thai students study free upto grad 12, 18 years old.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Incorrect. Thai students study free upto grad 12, 18 years old.

Only primary (6 years) and lower high school (3 years) is free, 9 years in total.

https://www.talkeducation.com/news/thailand-s-schooling-system-everything-you-need-to-know

Edited May 27, 2023 by BritManToo

[youreavinalaff]

40 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Piern you obviously have not taught in a Thai school.  Teachers both Thai and foreign are told what to teach.  Students desire to learn doe snot matter.  

 

Yes I am definitley cynical you stay involved as a teacher in this system for 10 years and see how you feel.

 

It does vary by school. I was a teacher in Thailand for 21 years. Some schools give a lot of flexibility. Others not so much.

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Identified and ignored!

That's fine by me.

 

However, by ignoring, you are missing out on learning something from someone with 21 years experience on the matter both as a teacher and parent.

 

I believe it was the 2017 constitution that passed the law of 12 years free education. They did not stipulate grades although most took it as 1 to 12. Some parents in rural areas, where schools generally offer education from pre kindergarden to grade 9, used their 12 years free education to cover those years. The government then pushed it to 15 years to cover Kindergarden and one year of pre kindergarden for those that wished their kids to go to school at a younger age and continue to grade 12.

Edited May 27, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[asf6]

Thai "free education" isn't totally free. Parents have to fork out school fees for various things. Only a few thousand baht per term you might say, but some parents struggle to find that money every term.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, asf6 said:

Thai "free education" isn't totally free. Parents have to fork out school fees for various things. Only a few thousand baht per term you might say, but some parents struggle to find that money every term.

Yes, if schools are lucky enough to have a dedicated computer room and/or a Native English speaking teacher, the grant per student from the government will often not be enough to cover this. From memory I paid about 500baht a term.

 

Rural schools might ask for donations from time to time butcher generally totally free.

[Scott]

I spent around 25 years working in the Thai Education, some time in the US and in educational programs primarily in the Middle East for a time. 

 

Based on my experience, the only thing I can say is that I haven't seen any education system that was significantly better or worse than others.   They all have strengths and weaknesses. 

 

I did have some oversight of a school in the Middle East that was excellent, but it was at the expense of a lot of students.  It had very high standards to get in and any student who fell below a certain level was expelled.  

 

When you start looking at public education for all children, the standards start to drop.  It's a lot more challenging to education 100,000 students who must attend than it is to educate 1,000 of the best in the county, province or area.  

 

I tend to be cynical, but students who I taught in G. 2 and considered them to be rather 'dense' are all now working adults.  I have met and visited with a few in the US where they were studying Masters or Ph.Ds.  A few are in the US and working here. 

 

There are so many variables, everything from the levels of poverty and nutrition in an area, to parent involvement, classroom size and quality of educators.

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

13 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Imagine 5 out of 33 students go through the 4 years of high school and finish with nothing.  This is happening more and more in the states.

5 passed.  They also managed to quickly get another 12 up to the standard.  They're also probably not going to leave with nothing.  I believe they are more likely to repeat the year in the US.

 

13 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

I am not sure that a lot of countries in the west can harp at Thailands education system anymore.

This is only one school and it could be in a really bad area.  It doesn't say much about the US at all.  The Thai education system is an issue all over the country.

 

One thing it does show, is that they're willing to fail people that aren't up to the standard, which is way ahead of the Thai no-fail policy.

 

Most countries in the West could comfortably "harp on" about the state of education in Thailand, but they really don't.

 

It is well known how bad Thai education is, it isn't like an untrue slur.  What should happen is the education system in Thailand should improve, not weaknesses in non-Thai education systems be pointed out.  That won't help anyone.

[BangkokReady]

11 hours ago, Plern said:

Education is poor here in Thailand as we all know. Foreign teachers are largely responsible for the failure of students to acquire English in particular. I would estimate that less than approximately 5% of foreign EFL teachers know what they are doing.

Even if this was the case, it wouldn't explain the state of education in Thailand.

 

I don't think it is true at all.  The is an issue with the quality of some foreign teachers, which is really the fault of the system, but generally it comes down to the Thai cultural attitude to learning.  They have little interest in language, they often don't really respect foreign teachers, they know they can make no effort and still pass, the students cheat and copy as standard.  This is all allowed by the Thai teachers, and often foreign teachers get socialised into it (they can't change anything anyway).

 

Foreign teachers are often there to simply work through a textbook and be a walking tape recorder to allow the students some exposure to a native speaker.  Students also have lessons with a Thai teacher.

 

If the foreign teacher was the only issue, the other teaching would surely be a lot more effective and the level of English would not be so low.

 

11 hours ago, Plern said:

This isn't quiet quitting, if they were in fact paid more they wouldn't have any more motivation or interest in the position. Competence, ability would not magically appear in their soft, mushy melons.

This also isn't true, as, if the wages were higher, better quality teachers would be attracted to the jobs.

Edited May 27, 2023 by BangkokReady

[kingstonkid]

On 5/27/2023 at 10:05 PM, BangkokReady said:

Even if this was the case, it wouldn't explain the state of education in Thailand.

 

I don't think it is true at all.  The is an issue with the quality of some foreign teachers, which is really the fault of the system, but generally it comes down to the Thai cultural attitude to learning.  They have little interest in language, they often don't really respect foreign teachers, they know they can make no effort and still pass, the students cheat and copy as standard.  This is all allowed by the Thai teachers, and often foreign teachers get socialised into it (they can't change anything anyway).

 

Foreign teachers are often there to simply work through a textbook and be a walking tape recorder to allow the students some exposure to a native speaker.  Students also have lessons with a Thai teacher.

 

If the foreign teacher was the only issue, the other teaching would surely be a lot more effective and the level of English would not be so low.

 

This also isn't true, as, if the wages were higher, better quality teachers would be attracted to the jobs.

The challenge that I see kids having is that the Thai teachers that are teaching English have a very low understanding of English and only know what the Thai system teaches them.

 

I have had a few of my students complain and correct the Thai teachers when they are wrong.  The best was a P1 student that only listened and read English books and videos.  Her English was at a high level for her age and when the teacher was wrong in her I am right you are wrong voice kept correcting the teacher. who complained and asked the mother to tell her daughter to quit.

 

[Andre0720]

Certainly that outside of Thailand, students are now quite busy learning about pronouns... Might take more than 4 years actually...

Gender Neutral / Gender Inclusive Pronouns ; SHE, HER, HER, HERS, HERSELF ; HE, HIM, HIS, HIS, HIMSELF ; zie, zim, zir, zis, zieself.

 

Just a few here as a starter....

Edited May 29, 2023 by Andre0720
Some pronouns added...

[DavisH]

On 5/27/2023 at 10:29 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

"only 5 seniors met graduation requirements"

 

That sounds to me like there are at least some graduation requirements.

 

As far as I know in some (many? all?) Thai institutions everybody graduates. So having a certificate from any of those means nothing. 

In Thailand it depends on the school/institution. Many students drop out, or "reture" as they like to say, as they cannot cope. We have also sent out students from my school after m3, as they generally were failing all subjects up until that point (regardless of the fact they graduated with a 1.0 gpa, or 50%. Schools don't "need" to keep students after m3, as m3 is the end of compulsory education. 

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

The challenge that I see kids having is that the Thai teachers that are teaching English have a very low understanding of English and only know what the Thai system teaches them.

 

I have had a few of my students complain and correct the Thai teachers when they are wrong.  The best was a P1 student that only listened and read English books and videos.  Her English was at a high level for her age and when the teacher was wrong in her I am right you are wrong voice kept correcting the teacher. who complained and asked the mother to tell her daughter to quit.

 

                      It's  not uncommon for Thai teachers to silence kids whose english proficiency exceeds their own. I have also been "corrected" on several occasions by Thai teachers who considered my English to be substandard lol 

                       They seem to waste a lot of time trying to teach them about tenses, syntax and grammar,etc.  things which many if not most native speakers would struggle with.  Surely conversational English would be the way to start off,  at least then  they may have a chance of making it enjoyable The thought of being forced to sit there conjugating verbs brings back some very bad memories from my school days

                      But is it even necessary to teach all Thai kids English?  considering the % of the population who never ever use it in their day to day lives. the  atrocious standard of english teaching generally, and the lack of interest from the kids themselves  really what is the point

                       Having been forced to attend lessons in french and latin at school I can confirm it is a complete waste of time if there is no real perceived reason to learn and no opportunity to put what one learns into practice on a daily basis 

                          You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, is a phrase that springs to mind

[pixelaoffy]

if you know anything about Thai primary and secondary school you would know all the students graduate simply by attending ..no one fails. Cant compare that to any western system 

[Chicksaw]

Edercashun is impotant. Dont matter none if thems Thai or thems American. If you dont larn you aint goin nowheres.

[Rhys]

On 5/29/2023 at 9:05 AM, Andre0720 said:

Certainly that outside of Thailand, students are now quite busy learning about pronouns... Might take more than 4 years actually...

Gender Neutral / Gender Inclusive Pronouns ; SHE, HER, HER, HERS, HERSELF ; HE, HIM, HIS, HIS, HIMSELF ; zie, zim, zir, zis, zieself.

 

Just a few here as a starter....

...Nong will be fine here..