International Schools - Fees

[LucidLucifer]

Whilst qualified farang teachers on the whole are probably better than none QTS teachers, its no guarantee. Some of the teachers I've had through school and uni in England were shockingly bad. All I'm saying is that a QTS teacher is not the holy grail some people think it is.

Yes I agree that QTS doesn't make a great teacher. I've seen unsatisfactory, and only just satisfactory, teachers in UK schools. I've also mentored PGCE students from two different universities. One of which passed her course to get QTS, despite mine, and others, serious reservations.

However, once you have QTS, you still need to pass induction which takes another year. Any school worthy of calling itself a school will put in place extra help and professional development for those missing, or only just making, the required standards. Where would you get this with a TEFL cert or CELTA? You simply wouldn't.

As an note about the above mentioned PGCE student I mentored. She still had to go out and find a job, which she couldn't do, and has now left the profession forever. Good ridence in my eyes!!

With the better international schools, they only look at practitioners with experience and a proven track record (although i do conceed that some may slip through the net).

[harryfrompattaya]

The reason for the high prices for good international school is because they don't employ Khao San Tourist. These tourists get 15,000 baht per month, no housing, working for small private schools.

The good qualified expat teachers (ISB, Bangkok Pattana, Shrewsbury, etc) gets about 200,000 to 300,000 baht per months plus housing (range from 70,000 to 150,000 baht) on top. The cost is factor into the fee.

There are lots of cheap local school doing EP programs. Their semi-qualified teachers (Philippinos, Aficans, etc) gets 25,000 to 45,000 baht per months plus a small room (value at 5,000 Baht/month).

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

I agree as my wife used to teach their, and her familiy is connected with school as owners. Sorry that you say "I'm turning into an affectation-nazi." To use free grammerian's we say peple like you are pink slime.

[Frogmountain]

Anyone ever tried to negotiate school fees? Thinking of giving it a go. My husband's employer no longer pays school fees and we're taking a bath.

[kurnell]

Anyone ever tried to negotiate school fees? Thinking of giving it a go. My husband's employer no longer pays school fees and we're taking a bath.

I did. In fact most people I know did

[Frogmountain]

That's awesome, tho now I feel like a dolt for not doing it sooner.

[Livinginexile]

I have a 6.5 year old son and I too have been shocked at the prices of a full English curiculume schools in Thailand, even more expensive that Dubai and Qatar!!!

Right now I am working in Phnom Penh and he is enrolled in an a fully certified international school with a mix of English, American, fillipino teachers for about $400 per term!! about $50 registration fees etc. Really really good, even in the play ground it's "English only". He's very happy, even the local kids enrolled here speak English, even in the playground.

Thailand is a complete rip off in my opinion.

[blossombkk]

I have a 6.5 year old son and I too have been shocked at the prices of a full English curiculume schools in Thailand, even more expensive that Dubai and Qatar!!!

Right now I am working in Phnom Penh and he is enrolled in an a fully certified international school with a mix of English, American, fillipino teachers for about $400 per term!! about $50 registration fees etc. Really really good, even in the play ground it's "English only". He's very happy, even the local kids enrolled here speak English, even in the playground.

Thailand is a complete rip off in my opinion.

Could you let me know the name of the school?

[Trembly]

I would advise parents to be very inquisitive about their children's schools and their budgets- especially the salaries of the teachers. Remember that high fees do not translate necessarily into high salaries; and if the school pays peanuts it will get monkeys no matter what *you* are paying. I'd say if the school is paying at least 60-70K a month to its teachers there is a chance that it is getting the best pick of the local hires (which *can* be sufficient though it is not a sure thing); if the school is "true-blue" international it should be paying more in the neighborhood of 120K+.

Most "true-blue" licensed-back-home teachers won't be found working for long in Thai schools (EP, MP, or otherwise) at any wage level because they are unwilling to tolerate the unprofessionalism/corruption of local management practices in many schools (by "Western" standards, anyway).

"Steven"

As a teacher with personal experience in 'esteemed' Thai government schools and true-blue international schools I would like to second this excellent point made by Ijustwannateach. The OP would do well (for his children) to heed this.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Trembly

[LucidLucifer]

I have a 6.5 year old son and I too have been shocked at the prices of a full English curiculume schools in Thailand, even more expensive that Dubai and Qatar!!!

Right now I am working in Phnom Penh and he is enrolled in an a fully certified international school with a mix of English, American, fillipino teachers for about $400 per term!! about $50 registration fees etc. Really really good, even in the play ground it's "English only". He's very happy, even the local kids enrolled here speak English, even in the playground.

Thailand is a complete rip off in my opinion.

At those prices I find it hard to believe it is a proper 'quality' international school. It is a simple case of economics. Decent, experienced, well qualified teachers cost money; good support staff cost money; good facilities cost money and good resources cost money. $400 per term wouldn't cover it.

I do however understand your point to a degree about international schools being expensive in Thailand, let me put it this way; I teach at one of the best international schools in Bangkok, and as such my daughter gets a free place (she is in nursery). I am paying far, far in excess of your $400 per term just for the minibus to take her and drop her back home, and that is with a large staff discount, and it's best not bring up how much I pay for her school meals per month, it's a very sore point!

[bangkokcue]

Sukhumvit soi 17 has a kinder garden with good service. But the fee is fair not high for their care on my kids.

[MrJohnson]

I would advise parents to be very inquisitive about their children's schools and their budgets- especially the salaries of the teachers. Remember that high fees do not translate necessarily into high salaries; and if the school pays peanuts it will get monkeys no matter what *you* are paying. I'd say if the school is paying at least 60-70K a month to its teachers there is a chance that it is getting the best pick of the local hires (which *can* be sufficient though it is not a sure thing); if the school is "true-blue" international it should be paying more in the neighborhood of 120K+.

Most "true-blue" licensed-back-home teachers won't be found working for long in Thai schools (EP, MP, or otherwise) at any wage level because they are unwilling to tolerate the unprofessionalism/corruption of local management practices in many schools (by "Western" standards, anyway).

"Steven"

As a teacher with personal experience in 'esteemed' Thai government schools and true-blue international schools I would like to second this excellent point made by Ijustwannateach. The OP would do well (for his children) to heed this.

Agree completely. Pretty solid evidence points to three main factors/determinnats of a childs school success in this order - teacher quality (content knowledge and ability to teach), quality of the curriculum (personally my preference is for the IB system) and the learning environment. The latter includes things like class sizes (the main problem with Thai schools is that they are way too large), access to learning materials, technology etc. Of course you also need to look at where the graduates of these schools go to - are they ending up at good universities etc. The mixed langauge programs being offered in many Thai schools now run the danger of producing kids who are illiterate in two languages - and I speak from experience. One of the fundamental differences between a truly international school and one of the 'hybrid' schools is the system of pedagogy. Most true international schools will have teachers skilled in creating a learning environment that fosters creative and critical thinking whilst the 'hybrid' schools are stuck in a reproductive mode of teaching and learning - commonly referred to as rote learning.. IMHO - generally you get what you pay for and schooling is no defferent except that the stakes are much higher.

[Pakboong]

Many school fees in Thailand balance keeping the rif raf out and turning a good profit. But the rif raf issue drives the train in all cases. The main reason Philbin closed all Chinese schools back in the 40s and 50s.

[MrLaoKao]

Interesting topic. I am currently looking for a school for my two daughters (8 and 16 years). They are thai originally (now thai-swedish citizens) but have been living in Sweden the past three years and going to swedish schools. Now we are planning a move to Thailand.

I have zero experience in international schools, and would appreciate som guidance in how to negotiate the prices. How much is it possible to get the prices down to?

My budget is up to 350.000 a year/kid. Is it possible to get the prices down to that for a real IB-school?

Otherwise I will look for a good private bi-lingual thai school (like Amnuay Silpa). If you guys have any suggestions please help me.

[JRinPDX]

I had an odd experience with St. Mary's in Udon Thani; I am posting to see if this is common practice.

I'm currently in the U.S. so unable to visit in person right now. So, I've emailed and called to inquire about admissions, discuss how to handle when prospective student is in the US, and about tuition & fees. I've had zero response. MIL went over and reports back that they make a practice of not responding to emails, nor do they answer the phone. (email address and phone number are posted on the website.)

Is this normal? I've had a few years' exposure to Thai thinking but this one just baffles me. What kind of business turns away a motivated (paying) customer?

Lack of any financial info on the website makes me think it's all negotiable.. that they want to get you in a small room and shuffle a mass of file folders ("so many applications, so few openings; how do we choose?"), with one eye out for an envelope. So I worry a bit about integrity.

Is it normal for schools to ignore queries? Normal to hide their costs? (It would certainly help those who can't afford to self-select out and reduce calls/emails) Can anyone share rough financials for this place? Or is this a school to avoid?

[Trembly]

I had an odd experience with St. Mary's in Udon Thani; I am posting to see if this is common practice.

I'm currently in the U.S. so unable to visit in person right now. So, I've emailed and called to inquire about admissions, discuss how to handle when prospective student is in the US, and about tuition & fees. I've had zero response. MIL went over and reports back that they make a practice of not responding to emails, nor do they answer the phone. (email address and phone number are posted on the website.)

Is this normal? I've had a few years' exposure to Thai thinking but this one just baffles me. What kind of business turns away a motivated (paying) customer?

Lack of any financial info on the website makes me think it's all negotiable.. that they want to get you in a small room and shuffle a mass of file folders ("so many applications, so few openings; how do we choose?"), with one eye out for an envelope. So I worry a bit about integrity.

Is it normal for schools to ignore queries? Normal to hide their costs? (It would certainly help those who can't afford to self-select out and reduce calls/emails) Can anyone share rough financials for this place? Or is this a school to avoid?

No, it's not normal for any straight or capable-as-advertised organisation to do this. Avoid.

[diddums]

Agree...avoid.

My kids school has absolutley no issue answering emails and phones....in fact they send many informative emails out along with newsletters etc.

As for negotiating school fees....never heard of this, I believe it is what it is, pay it or not.

A school that accepts a bartering system might not be the school you wish to attend....desperate and such.

[StefanBBK]

The reason for the high prices for good international school is because they don't employ Khao San Tourist. These tourists get 15,000 baht per month, no housing, working for small private schools.

The good qualified expat teachers (ISB, Bangkok Pattana, Shrewsbury, etc) gets about 200,000 to 300,000 baht per months plus housing (range from 70,000 to 150,000 baht) on top. The cost is factor into the fee.

There are lots of cheap local school doing EP programs. Their semi-qualified teachers (Philippinos, Aficans, etc) gets 25,000 to 45,000 baht per months plus a small room (value at 5,000 Baht/month).

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

While I whole-heartedly agree that you get what you pay for, (sadly) the international schools do not pay anywhere near what you are talking about. Not even close.

Some of the higly experienced class teachers at ISB, Bangkok Pattana, Harrow and a couple of others (the better paying schools) may be getting around 150000per month, including housing.

Housing depends a lot on whether you are single, have a non-teaching spouse and have children. It is certainly never, ever close to what you say. The figures you quote are closer to what some of the schools pay annually (unless that is what you meant, in which case you're under).

Shrewsbury certainly do not pay that much, nor do many of the other 'better' international schools. I know this as undisputable fact, because I have copies of the salary scales for most of them.

I am lead to believe that the smaller interational schools with proper educated and documented foreign teachers pay afound 70-90k, plus housing, and perhaps one return flight per year.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[StefanBBK]

Interesting topic. I am currently looking for a school for my two daughters (8 and 16 years). They are thai originally (now thai-swedish citizens) but have been living in Sweden the past three years and going to swedish schools. Now we are planning a move to Thailand.

I have zero experience in international schools, and would appreciate som guidance in how to negotiate the prices. How much is it possible to get the prices down to?

My budget is up to 350.000 a year/kid. Is it possible to get the prices down to that for a real IB-school?

Otherwise I will look for a good private bi-lingual thai school (like Amnuay Silpa). If you guys have any suggestions please help me.

350k isnot easy. Reason being that the fees increase massively with the years. For a first grader, you may be able to find a plce at 70k/ term, of which there are typically three. (210k plus extras)

for 8th grade you can expect to pay 140-160k at the same school,wich is over 500k per year, if you include the extras. You may be able to get a little deal with two kids.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 28, 2013 by StefanBBK

[Seringa]

There are many options around Thailand but I can tell you as an owner of an International School in Phuket that it is very hard to keep prices down. No better how much you try at the end one has to charge for good education. First of all one will never find good teachers for coins. They will always want to get paid well and they should. Even if a school manages to get someone from UK or USA for a good price after one year they find out how much other teachers get paid in other International schools and then they want more. On top of it a school has to get work permits for their staff. If not then any time immigration comes to check it causes so much drama. Then we are talking about good assistant teachers. They are hard to find too and they want to get paid well. On top of it we are talking about electricity, rent, food, maid, cooks, gas, drivers, handy men, gardeners, coordinators, accountants, secretaries and the list goes on. At the end of the day no matter what if the education is good the price has to go up. We have been charging 13,450 baht per month and really can't do it anymore. So next year our prices will go up to 15,000 per month. Which is still 10,000 baht cheaper then any other international school in Phuket. But believe me it is not easy. The only way we can do it is we are a charity and not looking for profit.

[diddums]

There are many options around Thailand but I can tell you as an owner of an International School in Phuket that it is very hard to keep prices down. No better how much you try at the end one has to charge for good education. First of all one will never find good teachers for coins. They will always want to get paid well and they should. Even if a school manages to get someone from UK or USA for a good price after one year they find out how much other teachers get paid in other International schools and then they want more. On top of it a school has to get work permits for their staff. If not then any time immigration comes to check it causes so much drama. Then we are talking about good assistant teachers. They are hard to find too and they want to get paid well. On top of it we are talking about electricity, rent, food, maid, cooks, gas, drivers, handy men, gardeners, coordinators, accountants, secretaries and the list goes on. At the end of the day no matter what if the education is good the price has to go up. We have been charging 13,450 baht per month and really can't do it anymore. So next year our prices will go up to 15,000 per month. Which is still 10,000 baht cheaper then any other international school in Phuket. But believe me it is not easy. The only way we can do it is we are a charity and not looking for profit.

How many students ?

All your costs are far cheaper than those same costs in a western country....even the foreign teachers work for less here than they would get back home.

So for a school with 2000 kids charging prices 3 to 4 times more than you....they must be making a killing right ?

[kurnell]

Fees for Ascot are very reasonable. I think it's a hidden gem

[Seringa]

There are many options around Thailand but I can tell you as an owner of an International School in Phuket that it is very hard to keep prices down. No better how much you try at the end one has to charge for good education. First of all one will never find good teachers for coins. They will always want to get paid well and they should. Even if a school manages to get someone from UK or USA for a good price after one year they find out how much other teachers get paid in other International schools and then they want more. On top of it a school has to get work permits for their staff. If not then any time immigration comes to check it causes so much drama. Then we are talking about good assistant teachers. They are hard to find too and they want to get paid well. On top of it we are talking about electricity, rent, food, maid, cooks, gas, drivers, handy men, gardeners, coordinators, accountants, secretaries and the list goes on. At the end of the day no matter what if the education is good the price has to go up. We have been charging 13,450 baht per month and really can't do it anymore. So next year our prices will go up to 15,000 per month. Which is still 10,000 baht cheaper then any other international school in Phuket. But believe me it is not easy. The only way we can do it is we are a charity and not looking for profit.

How many students ?

All your costs are far cheaper than those same costs in a western country....even the foreign teachers work for less here than they would get back home.

So for a school with 2000 kids charging prices 3 to 4 times more than you....they must be making a killing right ?

We have only 200 kids. As for schools with 2000 students that charge 3-4 times the price I can not say how much they are making. It all depends on how much they are spending. They might pay much more to their teachers and assistant teachers. They also might have big loans from the bank they have to pay back. It really all depends on the school and it's owner/director. We can charge such small amount because the owners (me and others) are really god at finding god deals. So I guess our parents benefit from it.

[diddums]

There are many options around Thailand but I can tell you as an owner of an International School in Phuket that it is very hard to keep prices down. No better how much you try at the end one has to charge for good education. First of all one will never find good teachers for coins. They will always want to get paid well and they should. Even if a school manages to get someone from UK or USA for a good price after one year they find out how much other teachers get paid in other International schools and then they want more. On top of it a school has to get work permits for their staff. If not then any time immigration comes to check it causes so much drama. Then we are talking about good assistant teachers. They are hard to find too and they want to get paid well. On top of it we are talking about electricity, rent, food, maid, cooks, gas, drivers, handy men, gardeners, coordinators, accountants, secretaries and the list goes on. At the end of the day no matter what if the education is good the price has to go up. We have been charging 13,450 baht per month and really can't do it anymore. So next year our prices will go up to 15,000 per month. Which is still 10,000 baht cheaper then any other international school in Phuket. But believe me it is not easy. The only way we can do it is we are a charity and not looking for profit.

How many students ?

All your costs are far cheaper than those same costs in a western country....even the foreign teachers work for less here than they would get back home.

So for a school with 2000 kids charging prices 3 to 4 times more than you....they must be making a killing right ?

We have only 200 kids. As for schools with 2000 students that charge 3-4 times the price I can not say how much they are making. It all depends on how much they are spending. They might pay much more to their teachers and assistant teachers. They also might have big loans from the bank they have to pay back. It really all depends on the school and it's owner/director. We can charge such small amount because the owners (me and others) are really god at finding god deals. So I guess our parents benefit from it.

Good for you.

But in relation to huge debt and loans to finance as justification for huge fees......poppycock

[Seringa]

I do no justify big fees with debt and loans but let's not forget that an international school is business after all. And like any other business it has to make ends meet and make some profit. Unless it is not-for-profit school.

[diddums]

Yes...a business charging more exorbinant fees than in some home country cases....yet the cost of operations is far less....look at labour, electric, water etc etc.

[MrJohnson]

Yes...a business charging more exorbinant fees than in some home country cases....yet the cost of operations is far less....look at labour, electric, water etc etc.

Actually labour costs are higher for teachers off-shore especially when you factor in relocation expenses and so on.

[jeff555]

its too much............

[Putu94]

My son has finish just his high school with excellent results (a government school with a English program) he has the dutch nationality so have to learn also the Thai Language.

We paid 27.500 baht, semester . Now he goes to the University to study business in English.

Here are the cost 15.000 baht per semester.

We are living in Mahasarakham the school city of the Issan

We have to say we are very satisfied

[jayboy]

Fees for Ascot are very reasonable. I think it's a hidden gem

But didn't you say in an earlier post you negotiated a discount?

Discounts for siblings are standard at many schools.However if a school starts offering discounts in a non transparent way this can be a dangerous and slippery slope because it inevitably leaks out and gives the impression of desperation.Also parents who are struggling to afford the stated fees will be understandably resentful if other parents are negotiating a cheaper deal.

Reduced fees for highly talented children is a different matter

[kurnell]

Fees for Ascot are very reasonable. I think it's a hidden gem

But didn't you say in an earlier post you negotiated a discount?

Discounts for siblings are standard at many schools.However if a school starts offering discounts in a non transparent way this can be a dangerous and slippery slope because it inevitably leaks out and gives the impression of desperation.Also parents who are struggling to afford the stated fees will be understandably resentful if other parents are negotiating a cheaper deal.

Reduced fees for highly talented children is a different matter

Schools want different types of students for different reasons. Some want blue eyed blondes to make them appear to be more like an international school for example. If you have something you think the school wants then give it a shot. I went to many schools and asked for discounts, some said yes off the bat, some took lengthy negotiations, some gave a flat no. It depends on circumstances. What you've described above is nonsense sorry to say. Leaks out how?? Such and such school is crap cos they give discounts??? Doesn't happen. Expats gossip about everything from maids/childcare to supermarkets/holiday resorts to removalists etc and it remains just that, gossip.