TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Looking for some advice here... I've got a couple of very old PC laptops that I plan to toss out, because they have various problems, etc etc. They currently have Windows 10 installed, and I've already used Windows to reset and clean reinstall the OS on both, which does as least a surface wiping of my own prior personal files on the machines. However, it's my understanding that that kind of disk wiping is just a surface treatment, and could be reversed by someone who might have the laptops in the future, if they wanted to go to the effort. I know it's probably overkill, but I'd really prefer to make sure all my prior content on the laptops is really and permanently erased. Just don't know how to accomplish that! Oddly, it seems Windows won't allow you to reformat a hard disk partition that already has the Windows OS installed on it. And AFAICT, you also can't uninstall Windows 10 from a machine where it's already installed.... What I'm looking for is something like the total disk reformat that you can do with external disks in Windows where you choose not just the quickie reformat, but the complete and full-blown reformat. How??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KannikaP Posted May 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Why try to reformat them if, as you say in your headline, you are going to TOSS THEM OUT? Edited May 31, 2023 by KannikaP 1 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blackcab Posted May 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2023 If you are not donating the machines then take out the hard drives and hit them with a hammer a few times. Nobody will spend the time or money to reconstruct them. Alternatively drill a few holes right through the drives. 7 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digitalbanana Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Oddly, it seems Windows won't allow you to reformat a hard disk partition that already has the Windows OS installed on it. And AFAICT, you also can't uninstall Windows 10 from a machine where it's already installed.... I have old laptops and just reformat the HDD's using a bootable operating system on a stick. Linux works well for this, but could use Windows if needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Quiet piece of waste ground/jungle, hammer and a can of petrol. Smash , burn , bury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, KannikaP said: Why try to reformat them if, as you say in your headline, you are going to TOSS THEM OUT? So no one who might end up with the laptops after I've tossed them would be able to attempt to restore any files that previously were on the hard drives... Surface deleting files on a PC doesn't really erase them permanently. It merely changing the file info on the files so they're not readable by Windows... But that process can be undone by anyone with a bit of PC smarts, if they wanted to do so. Unless you physically disable the disk as suggested above, or really do a full and complete reformat of the disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeymaus Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, Digitalbanana said: I have old laptops and just reformat the HDD's using a bootable operating system on a stick. Linux works well for this, but could use Windows if needed. There are enough tools that can recover data from reformatted disks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said: There are enough tools that can recover data from reformatted disks. really? are you guys sure you know what you're talking about? reformatting completely wipes out all information as far as i know. i've thrown out laptops by reformatting disks and no one has stolen my identity yet. Edited May 31, 2023 by save the frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said: There are enough tools that can recover data from reformatted disks. Even if you do the full-blown reformat? Not just the quickie reformat that just does a surface wipe.... PS - I guess my thinking was, this being Thailand, after I leave out the laptops, someone might want to actually end up using them. They are functional, just are very old and have some minor issues....That's why I wasn't inclined to just take a bat to them.... I was hoping for a way to leave the laptops intact and functional, but at the same time, ensure that my prior data stored on their hard disks is totally unavailable to anyone no matter how smart their PC skills. Edited May 31, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 As said the simple and best is physical destruction - remove drives and destroy. Anyone wanting to use laptops would not what them anyhow - they would want an SSD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, save the frogs said: reformatting completely wipes out all information as far as i know. A basic Windows reformat does erase the data...but not necessarily permanently. It can be recovered, AFAIK, just as Mickeymaus said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said: There are enough tools that can recover data from reformatted disks. From what I've understood in the past, to do the job completely, you need some kind of program that 100% overwrites ALL the space on the hard disk with new Xs and Os....as opposed to just erasing/reformating the disk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: A basic Windows reformat does erase the data...but not necessarily permanently. It can be recovered, AFAIK, just as Mickeymaus said. yeah ... i just wonder if you guys are paranoid and over-reacting and fear-mongering. does it make sense that we have to drill holes through hard drives? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, save the frogs said: yeah ... i just wonder if you guys are paranoid and over-reacting and fear-mongering. does it make sense that we have to drill holes through hard drives? You don't HAVE to.... But if you want to be sure no one can access your former data in the future, that's one way to be sure. I think some non-techie folks assume that when they delete files in Windows that those files are permanently and irretrievably gone... And unfortunately, that's simply not the case. Edited May 31, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeymaus Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, save the frogs said: really? are you guys sure you know what you're talking about? reformatting completely wipes out all information as far as i know. i've thrown out laptops by reformatting disks and no one has stolen my identity yet. Pick one https://www.google.com/search?q=can+we+retrieve+data+from+a+formatted+disk&oq=can+data+from+a+formated+dis&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i8i13i30.16300j1j9&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timendres Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Everything depends on the degree of effort someone would want to invest in recovering the data. As mentioned, reformatting the drive does not erase sectors, so the data is still sitting there. I have written code that scans sectors to recover data, even after a reformat. So that is not secure. Most high security people will use software to "secure erase" the drive. This actually writes over ever active sector (or all of them) multiple times with random data to eliminate the possibility of data recovery even with the most sophisticated tools. The simplest, and most certain, method is platter destruction. Destroying the drive mechanism is not enough, since I can drop your platters into a new mechanism. You need to destroy the platters. I prefer shattering them, but drilling holes is nearly as good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, timendres said: Most high security people will use software to "secure erase" the drive. This actually writes over ever active sector (or all of them) multiple times with random data to eliminate the possibility of data recovery even with the most sophisticated tools. Is there a free, obtainable version of that kind of software that I could use for the purpose? That's pretty much what I had in mind at the outset. I knew such software exists... I just didn't know where/what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digitalbanana Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said: There are enough tools that can recover data from reformatted disks. I meant reformatted (and perhaps partitioned) the HDD with old data and old Windows on it using an o/s on a USB drive and installed the new o/s on the old laptop HDD. I would be interested to know what tools can access old data after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mickeymaus Posted May 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Digitalbanana said: I meant reformatted (and perhaps partitioned) the HDD with old data and old Windows on it using an o/s on a USB drive and installed the new o/s on the old laptop HDD. I would be interested to know what tools can access old data after that? As long as harddisk areas are not overwritten with new data they still have the old data. Edited May 31, 2023 by Mickeymaus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 if you're going to drill holes, why not use a chainsaw or a bomb to blow it up? more fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 Here's a good explanation of why simply doing a surface erase or reformat doesn't really accomplish the job in a SECURE way. https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/secure-erase-ssd-or-hard-drive "If you're planning to sell / gift your old PC or just the drive inside, you need to securely erase your SSD or hard drive so that the next person can't gain access to your files. You could have sensitive files on the drive, which contain everything from your passwords to your photos to financial information that some could use to steal your identity. It almost goes without saying, but just deleting a file doesn't make it completely disappear. If you don't securely erase your SSD or hard drive, the operating system just removes a pointer to each deleted file, leaving all the bits in place, until the drive needs that space for new data and overwrites it. But that could take years or, if you have lots of free space, never happen. You might think that resetting Windows 10 or 11 with the option to delete your files enabled would get rid of all your personal data, but, as our tests provide, that's not the case." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gargamon Posted May 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2023 49 minutes ago, save the frogs said: reformatting completely wipes out all information as far as i know. You should stop commenting on computer issues. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) If you read the full article, it indicates that the methods for securely wiping traditional hard drives can be different from the ones used for newer SSDs... In my case, both my laptops have the older traditional platter hard drives. Ahhh... this is a freeware solution I've heard of in the past....and one that I believe is credible. From the Tom's Hardware article linked above: "How to Securely Erase a Hard Drive The best way to make sure an old-fashioned mechanical hard drive is securely erased is to overwrite it with dummy data multiple times. There's a popular freeware app called DBAN (Darik's Boot and Nuke) that writes to all the sectors using secure sanitization methods. DBAN is its own boot environment (no OS necessary) so you can use it to securely erase the boot drive on a computer without taking that drive out and attaching it to another PC. However, if the hard drive you're wiping is not the boot drive, you must be very careful when using DBAN so that you don't accidentally wipe the wrong drive." (more) Edited May 31, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensenZ Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I take out the HD and give the rest of the computer to people at the local computer centre (Tukcom in Pattaya), then just smash the HD to pieces with a hammer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 If you want to dispose them, then just wrack the contacts with a screw driver or similar. Or use a hammer. It would be very much work to try to get them running again. Who will spend that time on a random HDD? And if you want to wipe the disk data there are many free tools. They work. Just google: wipe HDD tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, JensenZ said: I take out the HD and give the rest of the computer to people at the local computer centre (Tukcom in Pattaya), then just smash the HD to pieces with a hammer. With the relatively low cost of SSD drives, and the speed/heat/weight advantage for laptop, believe this is best course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JensenZ said: I take out the HD and give the rest of the computer to people at the local computer centre (Tukcom in Pattaya), then just smash the HD to pieces with a hammer. The two laptops I'm looking to dispose of are 20+ years old... Any Thai computer shop I tried to hand them off to (even though they're still functional)...would probably laugh and hand them right back to me! ???? Edited May 31, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Look up "DoD 5220.22-M data sanitization method" and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: The two laptops I'm looking to dispose of are 20+ years old... Any Thai computer shop I tried to hand them off to (even though they're still functional)...would probably laugh and hand them right back to me! ???? Smash them with a hammer, remove the HDDs and drive a spike thru them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdongrb Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Be sure you're not going to end up like this guy: https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/symnalfp5#:~:text=In the depths of a,and restore the lost coins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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