About 79,000 Second Graders Illiterate

[george]

About 79,000 second graders illiterate

BANGKOK: -- About 79,000 second graders were illiterate, according to the students' scores in the national test.

Basic Education Commission secretary general Khunying Kasama Varawarn Monday disclosed that the test in Thai language checked the ability of all second graders across the country to understand 3,000 standard vocabularies.

However, the test results showed that up to 12 per cent of 630,000 second graders across the country did not understand those vocabularies and were thus illiterate.

-- The Nation 2007-07-09

[Ijustwannateach]

And no doubt they'll all pass into the 3rd grade, where the problem of their illiteracy will disappear until the next time they're tested, at which there will be yet another gnashing of teeth. The failure once again of no-fail.

[Tony Clifton]

Eating at a restaurant yesterday and my pregnant wife overheard a bunch of grade school teachers talking at the table next to us. She listened for a while and then said "Our child will definitely NOT attend school here."

And what do you know, they were discussing how the little students don't understand anything and that they, the teachers, simply don't care and send 'em off to the next grade, whose teacher is probably sitting at the same table.

We have no idea yet what we'll do about education for our yet unborn child, but, given the circumstances and location, believe me, we do want to plan this ahead, maybe even avoid Thai schools altogether.

[lazeeboy]

Eating at a restaurant yesterday and my pregnant wife overheard a bunch of grade school teachers talking at the table next to us. She listened for a while and then said "Our child will definitely NOT attend school here."

And what do you know, they were discussing how the little students don't understand anything and that they, the teachers, simply don't care and send 'em off to the next grade, whose teacher is probably sitting at the same table.

We have no idea yet what we'll do about education for our yet unborn child, but, given the circumstances and location, believe me, we do want to plan this ahead, maybe even avoid Thai schools altogether.

is this any different around the globe? going into my kids school it not scary enough ,teachers have no power ,desks face any which way ,kids just up and walk around ,kids can easily fake they are working ,in my day 60s and early 70s you respected the teachers cos if you did,nt you saw the back of there hand

[Dupont]

And no doubt they'll all pass into the 3rd grade, where the problem of their illiteracy will disappear until the next time they're tested, at which there will be yet another gnashing of teeth. The failure once again of no-fail.

This is what happens.

Plus, in the next grade, they are even further behind the pace, they care less, the teachers care less... Then they pass em out of grade three and the same happens again, except they are further off the pace in grade 4 than they were in grade three.

By the time they leave school its a joke just how far behind most kids are. They all get the paper though and the uni pass... unless they venture abroad. Then they try and make up for 10 years poor education, by enrolling in private tuition for a month before they sit their entrance exams.

I had a child join a group after pressure from his parents. The group were in their third year and quite reasonable. This child only knew the first 5 letters of the alphabet and on his assessment exam, only wrote those 5 letters down randomly and sometimes back to front and upside down.

Passed with flying colours!! and is now probably 6 years behind his class mates. Apparantly it would have looked bad on the school and even worse on the falang teacher if he had failed. It was made plain to us that we would be blamed for any failure on the part of the students!

Gotta be at least two generations off having a decent education system here.

[jchen]

Thanks for picking up on this one George. This 12% figure is just a shadow of the reality.

It is not like this world-wide at all. In Hong Kong, you are expected to be PERFECTLY Canton fluent at age 9. And second language (English) fluent by age 13. Many students are 4 or 5 multi-lingual by high school graduation. (Mandarin (Putonghua), Shanghainese, and Chiu-Chow) Many people speak French, German, and Italian. Why? Because parents and the education system demand it.

Thailand is a mirror of Laos, Kampuchea, and Myanmar. Failure rates in all classes are just simply passed on to the next level and the next teacher. Thai classrooms are among the worst in the world. Even Southern Egypt, Eastern Morocco, and Western Gobi have a majority of students that at least TRY~! Let's just say there are very few polyglots in Thailand and leave it there.

Changes are going to be long and tedious, mainly because elder Thais simply don't care. Essentially illiterate, they never had to bother to learn Thai correctly, why should their kids?

I apologise for being so negative here, my girlfriend is a retired Thai Matayom teacher and has major issues with the system as well.

[aaaaaa]

I've read or heard somehwere the saying that "Modern education system - is a slaughter house for youngsters' minds" or something like that. the point is: the whole system is very discouraging for the very prupose of it - learning, obtaining knowledge, getting educated in real sense. poor kids must be a real heroes to get through it and NOT to loose the desire to learn entirely.

a year or so ago The Nation as well as Thai TV produced statistics of average kids' IQ, which showed the it decreases a lot from age 3-4 to 16-18 when kids graduate from high school. main explanations were given that it is due to malnutrition or lack of iron and iodine in food. I wonder though if the education system itself doesn't contribute to its cause - I think it not only does discourage kids to learn, but even in some way or other reduces their mental abilities.

[astral]

The students may not understand 3000 standard words in the Thai vocabulary.

I doubt there are many people in the world who can understand 3000 vocabularies..............

[brahmburgers]

Languages are like living entities, though some are more atrophied than others. As such, languages go through re-vamps & adjustments as time rolls by. Thai language is getting some adjustments as we speak. For example: many English-derived words added week by week. The book "600 Thai Words Taken From English' articulates many of those.

However, the Thai alphabet would seem to be due for a re-vamp. There are 8 letters for the P sound, 6 letters for the T sound, etc. There are several letters that are no longer used. It's more complicated than it needs to be, and the proof of its difficulty lies in such things as "second graders illiterate." Of course there are other factors - mostly having to do with lax, ineffective and out-moded teaching methods. (Meanwhile the military junta gives itself a gargantuan pay increase)

I've taught university here in Thailand. The students will be as playfully mindless as the teacher allows them to be. I give 'em pop quizzes every two or three days, and their attention (to what was being taught) became riveted. There's a vast untapped reservoir of bright minds out there. Too bad the Thai education system has dropped the ball.

[Luckydog]

Very fortunately I don't have to earn a living here in LOS. But my heart bleeds for those who have to teach kids to speak English for their daily Bread.

I tried it for about a year. NEVER AGAIN!

(Yes, I have a Degree in English and a TEFL).

Incidentaly, I liked the Students a lot. They were mostly polite and respectful. A bit too dim though for my liking, and the wages ha!........they made the whole scapade little more than a joke!

SO. If you young fella are thinking it would be nice to come here to Teach. FORGET IT!

Ok. Ok. I hear those of you who are so brain dead, saying you actually enjoy it.........

[jumnien]

Unfortunately, Thailand has been copying the American and British systems, whereby students are passed on to the next grade regardless of their ability. You listen to many of the Brits and Yanks around the Kingdom and you are certain they could not have passed the third grade. You ask them and they say they've earned high school diplomas - unbelievable! In some areas of the US 90% of the locals can't speak English in high school and they are passed right along. At least, the Thais can speak Thai!

[villagefarang]

Very fortunately I don't have to earn a living here in LOS. But my heart bleeds for those who have to teach kids to speak English for their daily Bread.

I tried it for about a year. NEVER AGAIN!

(Yes, I have a Degree in English and a TEFL).

Incidentaly, I liked the Students a lot. They were mostly polite and respectful. A bit too dim though for my liking, and the wages ha!........they made the whole scapade little more than a joke!

SO. If you young fella are thinking it would be nice to come here to Teach. FORGET IT!

Ok. Ok. I hear those of you who are so brain dead, saying you actually enjoy it.........

I taught for a couple of years, about 30 years ago, to get a visa and work permit. Things were pretty much the same back them. So were is the guy who accused me of being ******* arrogant for noticing that there were a lot of illiterate and uneducated people in my village?

[geriatrickid]

Many of these comments are overly harsh and ignore the reason for illiteracy. There is distinct and demonstrated correlation between income and illiteracy. Thailand is not a wealthy country and has to juggle competing priorities.

Several of the criticisms made assume that this is a Thai problem alone. Google the item and you can look upon all the facts and figures for yourself such as the estimate that 1 in 6 UK adults is a functional illiterate. The US Department of Education National Assessment of Adult Literacy offered an estimate of 14% for basic illiteracy in the USA. One need only read the forums in TV to find examples of mangled syntax and spelling errors made by members whose mother tongue is english.

The responsibility of ensuring a proper education rests with the parents. If a parent can take some time every day to read with his or her child, or to discuss a new word, that would do more than any classroom filled with modern equipment could do.

Edited July 10, 2007 by geriatrickid

[raslin]

The students may not understand 3000 standard words in the Thai vocabulary.

I doubt there are many people in the world who can understand 3000 vocabularies..............

Right!

The Basic Education Commission could start with its own members

[villagefarang]

Many of these comments are overly harsh and ignore the reason for illiteracy. There is distinct and demonstrated correlation between income and illiteracy. Thailand is not a wealthy country and has to juggle competing priorities.

Several of the criticisms made assume that this is a Thai problem alone. Google the item and you can look upon all the facts and figures for yourself such as the estimate that 1 in 6 UK adults is a functional illiterate. The US Department of Education National Assessment of Adult Literacy offered an estimate of 14% for basic illiteracy in the USA. One need only read the forums in TV to find examples of mangled syntax and spelling errors made by members whose mother tongue is english.

The responsibility of ensuring a proper education rests with the parents. If a parent can take some time every day to read with his or her child, or to discuss a new word, that would do more than any classroom filled with modern equipment could do.

If the parents can't read or write, what do you do then? The schools are responsible and are run by the government not the parents. Just because there is illiteracy in other countries doesn't make it OK here in Thailand. I don't see what your getting all fussy about.

[PeaceBlondie]

Rice farmers and rubber tappers and garbage collectors and day laborers can probably survive, barely, as illiterates. Computer engineers, repairmen, no. To see the future of Thailand in 30 more years, just look back 30 years. Or, look out your window now.

It's a shame, a crying shame. And we - including farang teachers here - are virtually powerless to do anything substantial about it. It's up to you, Mr. Thailand.

[otherstuff1957]

According to official statistics, about 10% of Thai adults are illiterate, so it's not too surprising that the same percentage of Thai children are having problems.

As PB pointed out, the world is changing, if these kids to change with it, they will find themselves left behind!

As for the Thai alphabet being difficult, well, Thai is a difficult language! Yes, there are three different p's & t's: one is high, one is mid-tone & one is low. It's difficult to learn, but it does reflect the spoken language quite well.

[ZZZ]

Statistics like that can be very misleading as not all the facts were given.

If you read the same article published in Bangkok Post you will find that of the 10 provinces that failed 5 were from the three southern provinces and 4 were from the northern and northeastern provinces, these are areas where Thai is not the primary language.

Bangkok had a 99% success rate.

Still, there is room for improvements all over.

[Huw]

Languages are like living entities, though some are more atrophied than others. As such, languages go through re-vamps & adjustments as time rolls by. Thai language is getting some adjustments as we speak. For example: many English-derived words added week by week. The book "600 Thai Words Taken From English' articulates many of those.

However, the Thai alphabet would seem to be due for a re-vamp. There are 8 letters for the P sound, 6 letters for the T sound, etc. There are several letters that are no longer used. It's more complicated than it needs to be, and the proof of its difficulty lies in such things as "second graders illiterate." Of course there are other factors - mostly having to do with lax, ineffective and out-moded teaching methods. (Meanwhile the military junta gives itself a gargantuan pay increase)

I've taught university here in Thailand. The students will be as playfully mindless as the teacher allows them to be. I give 'em pop quizzes every two or three days, and their attention (to what was being taught) became riveted. There's a vast untapped reservoir of bright minds out there. Too bad the Thai education system has dropped the ball.

The Thai alphabet has got nothing to do with the standard of education. What causes the situation that most teachers would attest to, is the Thai culture, in which a piece of paper, bought and paid for, bestows (as if by magic) an education. The problem is with the innate ability of the Thai to live in a fantasy world where saying that 60% of their kids have a degree actually makes them credible on the world stage. It is almost a psychosis.

But let me see if I got this right (I may have misunderstood what you said above). University students are as playfully mindless (I assume that means unmotivated, uncaring and only interested in things that are 'sanuk' like the rest of the Thai nation) as the 'teacher' allows them to be?

You have 'teachers' in universities here and not lecturers?

You give 'pop-quizzes' 2 or 3 times a week in university?

Bloody hel_l, your post turns a simple, unsurprised and condescending unease into outright bloody alarm. And they wonder why they are a laughing stock.

H

Edited July 10, 2007 by Huw

[Huw]

Many of these comments are overly harsh and ignore the reason for illiteracy. There is distinct and demonstrated correlation between income and illiteracy. Thailand is not a wealthy country and has to juggle competing priorities.

Several of the criticisms made assume that this is a Thai problem alone. Google the item and you can look upon all the facts and figures for yourself such as the estimate that 1 in 6 UK adults is a functional illiterate. The US Department of Education National Assessment of Adult Literacy offered an estimate of 14% for basic illiteracy in the USA. One need only read the forums in TV to find examples of mangled syntax and spelling errors made by members whose mother tongue is english.

The responsibility of ensuring a proper education rests with the parents. If a parent can take some time every day to read with his or her child, or to discuss a new word, that would do more than any classroom filled with modern equipment could do.

If the parents can't read or write, what do you do then? The schools are responsible and are run by the government not the parents. Just because there is illiteracy in other countries doesn't make it OK here in Thailand. I don't see what your getting all fussy about.

I disagree with this. Imho there is only one cause of illiteracy, poor education, though I agree there are many factors. It is simply not sensible to compare UK education system with the Thai education system since the whole cultural and value fabric of the nations are different and this has a huge bearing on the education process. For example; learning by rote disappeared in UK in the 1960's and it remains the basis of Thai education.

Neither is Thailand a poor country as you suggest. The government is certainly lazy and incompetent but has lots of money for things that fatten the reputations or wallets of the ruling elite: again, imho, the cultural system is at fault.

I would suggest that it is impossible for the Thai education system to progress without a systematic dismantling of the whole Thai culture, and I would be vary happy to debate this thought.

H

[geriatrickid]

While literacy rates may be higher in the "west" when compared to Thailand, the value of that literacy has to be put in perspective. Take a look at some of the low paying service trades in western countries, e.g. food & retail. They are filled with a large number of people while deemed literate, are no different than the portrait of the Thai student that has been offered. Building on Peace Blondie's observation, the literacy levels of Thailand are fine for a nation that can live with stasis and a susbsistence strategy. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for heavily industrialized countries. This is why literacy rates must be higher in the west.

If the subject of literacy is broadened to include rudimentary math and science literacy, then a sizeable chunk of the developed western world is in dire straits. Countries such as England, Canada, France, etc. are now obliged to recruit overseas for skilled trades and professions. Yes, I appreciate that there are other factors involved in those labour shortages. However, you can't very well train locals to be oil pipeline fitters if they cannot do basic measurements etc. It's all relative.

Edited July 11, 2007 by geriatrickid

[peterpanner]

New stats: 90% of the Thais I know would do anything to avoid actually working. Another 10% I know of work so hard, it beats me. And I do 16 hour days.

[0Mix1up]

they should do what australia does

dig stuff out of the ground sell it to china

spend the money on sports

everyone loves sports stars

you don't need to read to catch/mark a ball only the flight of the ball

[sting0001]

If the subject of literacy is broadened to include rudimentary math and science literacy, then a sizeable chunk of the developed western world is in dire straits. Countries such as England, Canada, France, etc. are now obliged to recruit overseas for skilled trades and professions. Yes, I appreciate that there are other factors involved in those labour shortages. However, you can't very well train locals to be oil pipeline fitters if they cannot do basic measurements etc. It's all relative.

first I do apologize for doing a partial quote.

Second, let me assure you France (and Canada for what I know) have since a VERY long time the policy to recruit overseas skilled workers. As proof there is the recently adopted 'Chibani' Law (2005) in France : Overseas skilled workers who worked in France and then returned back to their countries will get the same retirment money as French national staying in France.

The main problem (both in France and Canada) is demographic and sociologic : Not much young, and those young are not willing to be electricians, plumbers or any other manual workers. They prefer to have a corporate suit even if the salary is lower (a department store manager in Casino/Big C get about 75% of an electrician salary -with the same amount of years in the position for both-).

Futhermore, French educations system is worlwide. Even in Bangkok, you can teach french (or in French) only if you have the very same qualifications as in France. Rumor tell the same day , at the very same hour, student everywhere in the world will learn the very same thing. Interrest, a student in Bangkok who got the Baccalaureat here is entitled to the very same rights as one who got it in Dijon ou St Paul de Vence.

So sorry to disagree with you , but I think your informations on that subject are inacurrate. I tried to find a joke related to age of your genitals (regarding your nickname), but even when you were young (I assume at least half a century ago) things were simply opposite to what you describe.

Salutations

[marshbags]

In Udonthani a well known Private school ( mixed ) i commented on in a previous thread has left many of it,s students with standards that did nothing towards preparing their students in qualifying terms while sitting enrollment exams.

Several i know gained entrance by the infamous method of funding the various schools ?????????????

Those in my M.Ban who used this method are now struggling big time to cope with the ongoing requirements of everyday learning and the demands.

A Thai teacher who helps in the area with these students says they haven,t the ability to take it all in and has refused to accept fees to try and assist them.

He goes to the houses, tests them individually and unless they show ability and potential to benefit, has to say no to them.

He could make lot,s of baht but refuses to do so unless he thinks he can genuinely improve their situation by the way.

Shame on the educational system for allowing this situation to continue through out Thailand.

The buck passing as far as i,m concerned can be stopped immediately at the source.

The schools board of governors, whoever and wherever they may be

IMHO of course.

marshbags

Edited July 11, 2007 by marshbags

[chownah]

Forget the educational system....if you want your own children to be literate then take charge of their education yourself. Send them to school sure but help them with their homework every night..investing an hour or so every day in your childs education will pay off big time.

Also, if you want your child to be literate (meaning able to read and write well) then starting at about age 3 read to them evey night before bed or some other quiet time of the day....a fun kiddy story...get books with pictures....talk about the pictures and read what the book says about the pictures......be involved in the reading...give the different characters different voices...make the mean people sound mean when you read their lines. READING TO YOUR CHILDREN EVERY DAY REALLY REALLY WORKS!!!!

We have a niece that stays with us about half of the time...sleeps over. At age 4 I told my wife that she should read to her every nite...the wife said sure and then promptly forgot it. I reminded her several times and she still did nothing....finally I just went out an bought a couple of Winnie the Pooh books in Thai, brought them home, and told the wife to read every night...she did...and now the niece is in the first grade and is in the top quarter of her class (at least) in her reading skills and she loves to read!!! She started asking what words meant on packages of snacks and other stuff!!! She likes doing her reading homework...my wife helps her...an important point is to make sure that the wife or whoever helps always always always remembers that IT IS FUN TO LEARN TO READ.....when helping to the child always talk in a pleasant voice and always have infinite patients....and remember that a first grader has about a 10 or 20 minute attention span and if you want to go beyond this then change activities...draw a picture of what you've been reading for instance.

Get involved...its works.

[geriatrickid]

So sorry to disagree with you , but I think your informations on that subject are inacurrate. I tried to find a joke related to age of your genitals (regarding your nickname), but even when you were young (I assume at least half a century ago) things were simply opposite to what you describe. Salutations

I don't want to make a long boring post so I will share this courtesy of the government of Canada; "Skilled Tradespeople are exactly that – skilled. This line of work requires individuals who have:

• strong academic foundation of literacy
  
• mathematical and analytical skills
  
• creativity
  
• problem-solving skills
  
• good coordination
  
• technological savvy
  
• passion"
  

It's a variation of Thailand's problem. Canada's NRC and major public health research facilities can't find enough scientists and staff to execute their mandates properly. The problem to paraphrase one scientist at a recent conference I slept through is that the quality of graduates is so poor,the candidate pool for doctoral students is dry. When people complain about the quality of Thai education I wish they dealt with some US FDA officials that can't even read a <deleted> clinical trial protocol. Maybe I live in a glass bubble, but I've yet to be disappointed by Thai health researchers in the same way I have been by Europeans. A paper diploma means nothing without common sense and a sense of adaptability. Ask anyone doing field research here, and they'll tell you that the quality and resourcefulness of Thai grad students is excellent.

In respect to my genitalia, I can assure you that they are in working order, unlike most expats'. FYI. I wasn't alive 1/2 a century ago, let alone a sparkle in someone's lustful heart. hel_l, I don't even think my parents were able to reproduce.

[marshbags]

Forget the educational system....if you want your own children to be literate then take charge of their education yourself. Send them to school sure but help them with their homework every night..investing an hour or so every day in your childs education will pay off big time.

Also, if you want your child to be literate (meaning able to read and write well) then starting at about age 3 read to them evey night before bed or some other quiet time of the day....a fun kiddy story...get books with pictures....talk about the pictures and read what the book says about the pictures......be involved in the reading...give the different characters different voices...make the mean people sound mean when you read their lines. READING TO YOUR CHILDREN EVERY DAY REALLY REALLY WORKS!!!!

We have a niece that stays with us about half of the time...sleeps over. At age 4 I told my wife that she should read to her every nite...the wife said sure and then promptly forgot it. I reminded her several times and she still did nothing....finally I just went out an bought a couple of Winnie the Pooh books in Thai, brought them home, and told the wife to read every night...she did...and now the niece is in the first grade and is in the top quarter of her class (at least) in her reading skills and she loves to read!!! She started asking what words meant on packages of snacks and other stuff!!! She likes doing her reading homework...my wife helps her...an important point is to make sure that the wife or whoever helps always always always remembers that IT IS FUN TO LEARN TO READ.....when helping to the child always talk in a pleasant voice and always have infinite patients....and remember that a first grader has about a 10 or 20 minute attention span and if you want to go beyond this then change activities...draw a picture of what you've been reading for instance.

Get involved...its works.

While in the Western world this applies as second nature, here in Thailand from my experience it is no looked upon as normal .

I agree 100% with Chownah and like him i cannot overstate that personal involvement on a daily basis is the only effective way to further develop your childrens / all childrens knoweldge and ability.

Personally since my daughter was born i have taken an active role in her development and spend time twice a day asking and assisting her in all aspects.

My wife takes care of the Thai and i take care of the English.

We do wherever possible live by the same standards i was brought up with in the U.K. within the home.

We also communicate in English and she communicates in Thai when outside with her school friends and within the Thai community.

As a result her skills are reasonable at the very least.

It is not for me to overstate this but all the families within the Moo Ban wish they could do likewise.

Each of us must decide how much we are prepared to do for our childrens futures, but it cannot be left to the schools alone to do the work, so yes please get involved, it,s never to late to start.

We owe it to them to provide additional support along with a solid foundation, whenever and wherever possible.

Do not blame the teachers who on the whole are dedicated professionals only to willing to work with the parents in my personal experience.

Communicate and get to know them along with keeping in touch at agreed intervals, reassure them that they have your support and that you are willing to work together to solve any situations that may arise during the year they are in their charge.

It get,s amazing results when you do so.

IMHO of course.

marshbags

Edited July 12, 2007 by marshbags

[Scott]

There are no easy solutions to educational problems. First, there will always be a few students who slip through the safety net, no matter what. Secondly, it is an enormous task for all concerned to simply provide education for nearly all the youngsters in a country. Third, many students have special needs in order to learn.

The idea of "failing" young students is dubious at best and can have a lasting and negative impact on them. Passing them on, without providing for their deficiencies can also have a lasting impact. You need to identify the problem (and they have) and then address that problem (hopefully they will).