Thai Baht May Hit 30 To The Us Dollar

[JASON THAI]

O.K I have been monitoring the Baht from 2002 everyday these are my findings remember these figures are based on what you would get from a Thai bank not from transfering from the UK as you would get a lower rate also these rates are based on a average for that year

2002 (£1 = 62 BAHT)

2003 (£1 = 66 BAHT)

2004 (£1 = 71 BAHT)

2005 (£1 = 74 BAHT)

2006 (£1 = 70 BAHT)

2007 (£1 = 68 BAHT)

So you can see the pound has lost value by 6 baht over 2 years, yes there will be some of you that will say I was getting more than this but these figures are based for the whole year and not a few weeks.

[Mid]

So you can see the pound has lost value by 6 baht over 2 years,

sorry to blow a hole in all your hard work , your trying to compare TWO moving playing fields

[VegasVic]

The way I see it, the question is what currency isn't appreciating against the greenback?

For example, here's a snapshot of current mid-market rates:

USD-THB: 31.6796

USD-GBP: 0.496343

USD-EUR: 0.733553

USD-JPY: 123.415

USD-CAD: 1.04588

USD-AUD: 1.16158

There's more than one 10++ year record there, so it's fair to say that we're seeing a dramatically failing US currency, not particular strength elsewhere.

The $AUD to the $US is at an 18 year high as at today.

Great for me!

Weak $ - great for me too. I hope it gets to 20.Americans can onlyblame their own stupidity in electing that idiot.

As has been pointed out numerous times in this thread and backed up by facts, Americans back in America ARE NOT suffering because the dollar is weaker. Not by a long shot. American presidents aren't elected to make life cheaper for the tiny percentage of American expats. "Stupidity" is believing otherwise. Regardless of party, the candidate in 2008 who promises to take the dollar back to where it was in January 2002 gets my vote. Unfortunately, you won't hear any of the ~20 candidates today make that an issue.

You aren't entirely correct. While I agree there are advantages to a weak currency, China wants one, Thailand wants one, there is a point at which currencies become too weak and ruin the living standard of middle class people. Before the currency collapse in Argentina, middle class Argentinians could vacation in Miami. After the crash, they couldn't, and they were pissed. Middle class Americans also enjoy overseas travel and imported products. Remember, as time goes by, Americans make less and less of what they consume. So far, no worries, as slave labor China is ready at our service. At the current weak dollar levels, not really an issue. But it could be.

Is America the next Argentina? I don't think so, but they aren't as different as some cheerleaders think.

A candidate for a stronger dollar would be a candidate serious about reducing the federal deficit.

You may be right Jing, the weak dollar will ecourage Americans to take vacations and spend their dollars inside the U.S. and not travel and spend their dollars in Europe, Miexico, Argentina, Australia, Asia and elseware around the world. Now with all those extra dollars spent inside the U.S. borders the U.S. tax revenues will continue its astronomical increase and instead of balancing the budget in 09 perhaps the U.S. can balance its budget this year or in 08, then Bush would look like a real miricle worker. I like the way you think Jing, but I never realized that you were such a supporter of Mr.Bush!

[Jingthing]

Nice try, Vegas.

If shopping at Walmart (Chinese slave products central) starts to feel as expensive as shopping at Saks Fifth Avenue, there will be political hel_l to pay ...

[VegasVic]

The US dollar is still holding strong against the Mexican Peso, the Argentinian Peso, and getting stronger against the Ethiopian Bir, among others I am sure.

especially against the Zimbabwe Dollar

I am glad to add that the U.S. dollar has seemed to stop its slide against the Albanian Lek as well, maybe things are turning around for the dollar!

Well, you can joke, but Mexico is still the most important foreign country for Americans. If the Mexican Peso was rising at the same rate as the baht, Americans might have to sneak in to Guadalajara to do landscaping, meat packing, field work, sex work, and cleaning jobs. Trust me, you don't want American workers doing those kinds of jobs, they can be such prima donnas.

Before I take off for the golf course I see one more item that needs correction in your post Jing. Contrary to popular opinion China is not Americas' biggest trading partner, Canada is, both in regards to imports as well as exports. China is second and your favorite mexico is a distant third. Of course if that mexican peso ever does unlink to the U.S. dollar and increase in value then mexico will likely fall way down the list! The weak U.S. dollar is the gift that just keeps on giving!

[Freddyrocks]

Of course, the dollar is dropping a bit recently, that's the good news. The bad news is that the assets of Americans, including myself, is appreciating so fast that they have far more dollars to convert; and they do. This puts pressure on prices in Thailand and elsewhere as 'Merkins go out with their wad of cash to buy.

Earlier this year, the U.S. treasury reported that for the FIRST time in U.S. history, Americans are carrying a higher level of debt(on a macro level) than assets which means that Americans as a whole are in a "negative" net worth status. That is NOT good at all.

[rayw]

O.K I have been monitoring the Baht from 2002 everyday these are my findings remember these figures are based on what you would get from a Thai bank not from transfering from the UK as you would get a lower rate also these rates are based on a average for that year

2002 (£1 = 62 BAHT)

2003 (£1 = 66 BAHT)

2004 (£1 = 71 BAHT)

2005 (£1 = 74 BAHT)

2006 (£1 = 70 BAHT)

2007 (£1 = 68 BAHT)

So you can see the pound has lost value by 6 baht over 2 years, yes there will be some of you that will say I was getting more than this but these figures are based for the whole year and not a few weeks.

Thanks Jason those look pretty accurate mid rate figures. Now can you do the same for the US$ just to show some of these guys here who seem to misunderstand just how poor the US$ is performing. I also quoted factual figures and percentages but some (by no means anywhere near all) of the Americans here seem to just bury their heads in the sand and think it is unimportant, as it doesn't and can't effect them .. duh!!. Sod the middle classes there and the wealthy how about the genuine hard working poorer folk, are they starting to feel the pinch yet I wonder ?? Time will prove to them in the end that it is not unimportant unless they can turn it round soon and I cannot see that if their government wont adopt proven third way policies that work (or at least better than the crap Bush policies). Personally I love the USA and do not want to see things go this wrong, I despaired when Dubbya got re-elected and proves how many brain dead people there are who have a vote. Happens in the UK too so not unique to the USA.

BTW 2 years or so ago the Baht was weak because it tended to follow the dollar then, now it does not and you see the consequences. A good overview would be to quote your figures Jason together with the US$ - Baht and US$ to £ that should show the facts I have been trying to state. I have lost interest in spending any more time banging my head against the brick wall as some of these guys wont accept facts when they stare them in the face. Oh and I am NOT gloating over the collapsed US$ , far from it as it saddens me but we all know the cause.

Sure I did realise that the w*nker can not get re-elected next term but what I meant was can't you vote him out now if enough say NO to him, not sure of your constitution on that score. Whoops I did say before no need for insults but I will draw the line when talking of that w*nker Bush as he just takes the biscuit. Amazing how such a prat can be the leader of the most powerful state in the world... frightening !!!. As Carlos Santana said touchingly at his Bangkok concert a few years ago "God bless humanity" I think we all need the blessing from whoever your own god is.

Someone quoted raw GDP figures of the USA under 8 years of Clinton and 6 years on Dubbya. Now calculate the percentage increases over these two periods as this is what is more relevant surely. Can't see the post with the figures in from here but it shows how the raw actual figures stated makes it all look rosy under Dubbya when in fact it is nothing like that good at all. Growth is measured in PERCENTAGES not hard raw figures. If in 1980 say a country's GDP rose from 2000 million to 3000 million it would be truly a stunning 50% IN GROWTH, in 2000 that same country's GDP may rise from 50,000 to 55,000 million a good but far less outstanding 10% growth. It would be really crass to say look it increased 5000 million in 2000 so a 5 times better performance than the 1000 million rise in 1980. Of course it is obviously wrong to use figures in that misleading way, though many politicians do just that all the time. Pointless and silly use of raw figures is meaningless, percentages please. All I have quoted before here are factual figures with percentages, which can all be checked out on numerous official and genuine Internet sites.

Thank you for someone calling me their liberal friend across the pond, I appreciate that as proud to not be an extremist but a solid centre road thinker and realist. This third way does work just look back and see and tell me where it has not worked, I am sure IF Clinton could have stayed in office the US$ would not have been weak like this. Seems most of the US presidents who have been liberals have been the real high IQ and thinking leaders rather than the right wing brash presidents often daubed internationally as being of low IQ (Reagan and Bush come to mind here), liberalism is indeed for focussed thinkers not low intelligence w*nkers, there are of course many exceptions to this over generalisation. Come on you guys all I am stating is the general well upheld view point you read and hear about all the time so I am quoting nothing new. Back to thread topic, so although Bush is pathetic and incapable, the US dollar is so very weak, any correlation ... go figure or maybe it is all Clinton's fault <gg>. Said all I want to say on this so nothing more to add, read the fiction and bury you head in the sand, or read the facts and accept and agree with it, 'Up to you"!!

Edited July 10, 2007 by rayw

[LaoPo]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

[peterpanner]

Liking Americans or not is not really the point; if the american economy goes bad, then the whole world will suffer the consequences.

[Mid]

BOT blames panic selling

Wed, July 11, 2007 : Last updated 9:19 am

Exporters are hurting themselves with dollar sales, warns governor

Bank of Thailand (BOT) Governor Tarisa Watanagase blamed exporters yesterday for pushing the value of the baht up to 33.46-33.47 against the US dollar by selling out their greenbacks in response to the central bank's relaxation of capital controls on Monday.

Tarisa told a press conference that some exporters sold more dollars in forward transactions than their actual holdings. "Quite a number of them over-hedged the dollar," she said. The massive sell-out pushed the baht to a new 10-year high.

Anoma Srisukkasem,

Somruedi Banchongduang

The Nation

damned exporters , don't they know she's trying to help ??

Edited July 11, 2007 by Mid

[Freddyrocks]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

Thank you LaoPo, nicely done and much appreciated!!

[kdvsn]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

Thank you LaoPo, nicely done and much appreciated!!

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

[Freddyrocks]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

Thank you LaoPo, nicely done and much appreciated!!

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

[Prakanong]

What is it with American extreme right-wingers?

Why do they call everybody who is politicly left of them (including centrists) liberals, and what is it about this kool-aid drink. Maybe fellow US citizens understand this jibe, but, nobody else does. Please explain this obsession of conecting non-right wing people with kool-aid.

It is rather amusing though do you not think!

Its like watching Fox News read by a guy in a cheap tuxedo espousing intelligent design!

The thought that someone reads Michael Moore or Rosie for their viewpoints also shows how lowest common denominator political discourse has reached.

You never know though - it might all be fair and balanced in a no spin zone

[Prakanong]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

While I agree with you regarding political partisanship you do fall into that well worn trap yourself with the term "Leftists"

A term devalued by the American right to describe anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is it not

Liberal has also become a term of abuse as well so meaningful discourse in American politics is bound to be lacking.

[kdvsn]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

Thank you LaoPo, nicely done and much appreciated!!

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

And if my grandmother had four wheels and I painted her yellow, she'd be a taxicab.

[RedQualia]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

We on the left don't think that =all= who are to the right of Fidel have the IQ of a kumquat... But those who deny reality, and those who put their political party's welfare above that of the country are certainly suspect. Those who lie about reality in the pursuit of personal gain seem to typify many on the right these days (there's been a large increase in those who are leaning left, or who have abandoned the Republican party).

Grateful to FreddyRocks for posting an itemized list of problems overlooked by VegasVic. Saved me the trouble of typing it up, as I'd have had to do if he hadn't. Some nits to be picked, or details added...

Gasoline costs quite a bit these days. I think it's less to do with oil, however, and more to do with the value of the dollar. I mean, when you bring a unit of money worth half what it was before, it's only reasonable to expect to need twice as much to buy the same thing. Problem is, workers in the US aren't paid twice as much. And it's not just fuel, of course. Since everything in the USA is pretty much shipped by truck, the cost of fuel bleeds over into increased costs for other things. Like milk. bread.

While he's pretty far off in denial land with regard to what the USA is like today, VegasVic nonetheless has some interesting thoughts with regard to what might happen to the dollar long term, and the potential for realizing an increase in wealth. Lots in the stock markets seems borderline criminal, or along the lines of scams (it's hardly a level playing field there). I can almost see Vic's scenario playing out as a long term planned sort of thing, complete with forethought. Almost.

The dollar was at 33.28 baht per, when I checked with my Thai bank an hour ago. Buy baht now. The dollar will continue to fall. Sell the baht if/when the dollar starts to rise.

Edited July 11, 2007 by RedQualia

[Freddyrocks]

To-Vegas Vic; Which of these statements do you dispute and why.

#1-The dollar is cosiderably weaker worldwide than 10 years ago.

#2-U.S. Consumer debt is at a all time high.

#3-The U.S. Trade deficit is at an all time high.

#4-Mortgage defaults and Forclosures in the U.S. at all time high.

#5-1st time in U.S. history than consumer debt exceeds assets owned.

#6-U.S. Government's National debt at all time high.

#7-U.S. Government's debt financed with foreign interests at all time high.

#8-Illegal immigration into the U.S. at all time high.

#9-Amount of U.S. dollars spent to finance Illegal immigration at all time high.

#10-GWB promised that Iraqi oil revenues would finance the Iraq war.

#11-"Real wage" growth stagnent under Bush.

#12-NASDAQ remains approx. 25% lower than 7 years ago.

#13-Dow Jones finally above levels of the late 90's(took almost 7 years) although factor in inflation and the Dow is still slightly behind those levels.

Just some interesting economic banter...BTW, I'm not some "die-hard" Clinton fan, I thought he was mediocre at best but I did study econ in college and was employed in finance for quite a few years. Anyway, whatcha think?

Freddy: I just re-posted your points so that they're a bit better readable.

Hope you don't mind.

LaoPo

Thank you LaoPo, nicely done and much appreciated!!

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

And if my grandmother had four wheels and I painted her yellow, she'd be a taxicab.

LOL....Yeah I know, but some major problems exist and corrections need to and should be implemented. The U.S. will have a rough ride before things get better.

[kdvsn]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

While I agree with you regarding political partisanship you do fall into that well worn trap yourself with the term "Leftists"

A term devalued by the American right to describe anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is it not

Liberal has also become a term of abuse as well so meaningful discourse in American politics is bound to be lacking.

I thought that a leftist was someone to the "liberal" side of the political center. What is your definition?

[RedQualia]

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

And if my grandmother had four wheels and I painted her yellow, she'd be a taxicab.

Domini, Domini, Domini -- your grandmother's a taxicab...

BIS warns of Great Depression dangers from credit spree: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/06/24/cnbis124.xml

US debt could trigger dollar collapse, UN warns: http://pressesc.com/01180629622_dollar_falls

IMF warns US on deficit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3188495.stm

Edited July 11, 2007 by RedQualia

[Freddyrocks]

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

And if my grandmother had four wheels and I painted her yellow, she'd be a taxicab.

Domini, Domini, Domini -- your grandmother's a taxicab...

BIS warns of Great Depression dangers from credit spree: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/06/24/cnbis124.xml

US debt could trigger dollar collapse, UN warns: http://pressesc.com/01180629622_dollar_falls

IMF warns US on deficit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3188495.stm

See!! Someone believes me(laughing more) I'm truely not an alarmist, things are realistically looking bleak when you dig a bit.

[calibanjr.]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

While I agree with you regarding political partisanship you do fall into that well worn trap yourself with the term "Leftists"

A term devalued by the American right to describe anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is it not

Liberal has also become a term of abuse as well so meaningful discourse in American politics is bound to be lacking.

I thought that a leftist was someone to the "liberal" side of the political center. What is your definition?

IME, a leftist is a liberal but further to the left, with "militant" connotations. In the U.S. , as kdvsn noted, liberal is often used in debates, even supposedly "straight" reporting as a pejorative. I'm from Boston, so I've been called both, sometimes not inaccurately.

Dollar going lower vs. most currencies, till 2008 election and some "ghost" of a resolution to the Iraq debacle, hence fiscal non-surreality on the horizon. Not saying it will go up at that point, but I don't see a rebound till at least that point. Funny thing, but living here, I can't ever hope to "lump" Thailand into any "most" groupings for any kind of prediction. Just a big lovely, anomalous joint. That's one of it's charms (and curses).

Edited July 11, 2007 by calibanjr.

[kdvsn]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

While I agree with you regarding political partisanship you do fall into that well worn trap yourself with the term "Leftists"

A term devalued by the American right to describe anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is it not

Liberal has also become a term of abuse as well so meaningful discourse in American politics is bound to be lacking.

I thought that a leftist was someone to the "liberal" side of the political center. What is your definition?

IME, a leftist is a liberal but further to the left, with a "militant" connotations. In the U.S. , as kdvsn noted, liberal is often used in debates, even supposedly "straight" reporting as a pejorative. I'm from Boston, so I've been called both, sometimes not inaccurately.

Hence the promotion of the term "progressive" by Americans who once proudly called themselves "liberal". Personally I don't understand what is wrong with indentifying oneself as a "liberal" nor as a "leftist".

Edited July 11, 2007 by kdvsn

[RedQualia]

OK, so when will the US economy collapse?

If things continue in the wrong direction, you could see the most significant recession in the U.S. since the great depression in the next 5-7 years, maybe sooner.

And if my grandmother had four wheels and I painted her yellow, she'd be a taxicab.

Domini, Domini, Domini -- your grandmother's a taxicab...

BIS warns of Great Depression dangers from credit spree: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/06/24/cnbis124.xml

US debt could trigger dollar collapse, UN warns: http://pressesc.com/01180629622_dollar_falls

IMF warns US on deficit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3188495.stm

See!! Someone believes me(laughing more) I'm truely not an alarmist, things are realistically looking bleak when you dig a bit.

Yeah... The United Nations, The International Monetary Fund, and the Bank of International Settlements.

Edited July 11, 2007 by RedQualia

[Prakanong]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don't understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

While I agree with you regarding political partisanship you do fall into that well worn trap yourself with the term "Leftists"

A term devalued by the American right to describe anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is it not

Liberal has also become a term of abuse as well so meaningful discourse in American politics is bound to be lacking.

I thought that a leftist was someone to the "liberal" side of the political center. What is your definition?

My own personal definition would have a leftist as someone who was a socialist/communist -this could include of course "Social democrats".

It is all a bit blurre now of course with the fall of the communist ideal as a meaningful alrernative means of production but I woukld certainly not be calling someone who had liberal (small L not party) views who believed in capitalism as the best means of production a "Leftist" - i would use liberal but not in a pejorative sense and most would know what I mant outside the Fox News Universe.

As I as taught the left right idea (came from the post revolutionary French Parliament did it not) was not a left to right axis but actually a circle. Fascism and Communism would have been pretty close to each other on that scale.

I do think however if you start calling liberals leftist (which I see as a political motive and not a true description) how can you ever discuss politics as a whole in meaningful terms?

Where do we put the "Neo-Liberals" then??? Are we calling them Leftist ;-))))

Edited July 11, 2007 by Prakanong

[VegasVic]

What is it with American extreme right-wingers?

Why do they call everybody who is politicly left of them (including centrists) liberals, and what is it about this kool-aid drink. Maybe fellow US citizens understand this jibe, but, nobody else does. Please explain this obsession of conecting non-right wing people with kool-aid.

It's a Jonestown reference.

Guyana grape juice to be absolutely correct! I just got back from a dinner party and thought I would check in to see if there were any replies, WOW! I don't know if I should start buying all the canned goods I can find and immediatly grab a shovel and start digging in the backyard for a fallout shelter. One thing is for sure I do need another box of kleenex because I haven't been able to stop laughing since I started reading some of these posts, my eyes are watering something fierce. Anyway my wife invited some friends home from the party and she broke out the good merlot, so I'm off to enjoy a couple of glasses of vino and get back here a little later. I was warned that a good portion of the thaivisa regulars were, shall we say a little left of center and their hatered of G. Bush was blinding, but this is really special. As Arnold says, I vill be baaaack!

[RedQualia]

Ok... My Thai bank finally reports that the dollar is worth 32.99 baht per. Gee, I have so many more "dollars" in my Thai bank today than I had yesterday! And compare it to last week! I mean sheese... I didn't do a thing, and I'm stinking rolling in dollars now!!! I swear, if I were Republican, I'd be Thanking Gawd, or something, for this fantastic luck!

[kdvsn]

What is it with American extreme right-wingers?

Why do they call everybody who is politicly left of them (including centrists) liberals, and what is it about this kool-aid drink. Maybe fellow US citizens understand this jibe, but, nobody else does. Please explain this obsession of conecting non-right wing people with kool-aid.

It's a Jonestown reference.

Guyana grape juice to be absolutely correct! I just got back from a dinner party and thought I would check in to see if there were any replies, WOW! I don't know if I should start buying all the canned goods I can find and immediatly grab a shovel and start digging in the backyard for a fallout shelter. One thing is for sure I do need another box of kleenex because I haven't been able to stop laughing since I started reading some of these posts, my eyes are watering something fierce. Anyway my wife invited some friends home from the party and she broke out the good merlot, so I'm off to enjoy a couple of glasses of vino and get back here a little later. I was warned that a good portion of the thaivisa regulars were, shall we say a little left of center and their hatered of G. Bush was blinding, but this is really special. As Arnold says, I vill be baaaack!

So Vic, when do you think that the current economic depression in the US will end? Do you think that Hillary will be able to reverse it?

[PeaceBlondie]

^

OK, thanks. Still don't understand connecting non-right wingers to a religious cult, though.

Neither do I. But likewise, I don’t understand why leftists consider anyone to the right of Fidel Castro to have the IQ of a kumquat. Maybe that's the nature of political partisanship.

I've met some intelligent kumquats lately, who are slightly to the left of Genghis Khan.

Folks, banter aside, what would this topic look like if we once again eliminate all the unrelated American political bashing? Can we keep the kool-aid in Guyana, and get back to Thailand?

[Mid]

Can we keep the kool-aid in Guyana, and get back to Thailand?

5,000 workers find factory closed