Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

[scottiejohn]

  On 7/12/2023 at 8:22 AM, Hummin said:

Trolling with credible sources?

Expand  

Did you ever bother to read the conclusion of the last source you quoted?

I'll post it for you with my emphasis added; 

"In conclusion, thus, there is evidence that Russia may have caused a portion of the refugee flow towards Europe, and was happy to exploit this for propaganda purposes. However, it was at most a side effect of their ‘normal’ approach to the kind of destructive war they have also waged previously, not a central element of their campaign, and not a key driver of the migration crisis, which was well underway when Russia jumped in, and in fact diminished in months to come despite the brutal campaign continuing unabated."

 

The above conclusion quoted in full does not quite meet the standard of proof required to back up your Russian conspiracy theories does it?

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 8:29 AM, placeholder said:

When was Kiev the capital of the USSR?

Expand  

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:02 AM, Kwasaki said:

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

Expand  

Kiev was never the capital of the soviet union.

[Hummin]

  On 7/12/2023 at 8:59 AM, ozimoron said:

It is just a war of territory. The soviet union once ruled Ukraine and Putin wants to retrive it back in order to establish his legacy. Moreover, Putin realises his country's reliance on fossil fuels make the Russian economy toast in the face of long term demand destruction. Russia needs Ukrainian land and resources to grow it's economy. It's that simple.

Expand  

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

[placeholder]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:02 AM, Kwasaki said:

Why do you want a history lesson from me. ?

Expand  

It would be a lesson about an alternative universe because Kiev was never the capital of the USSR.

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:05 AM, Hummin said:

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

Expand  

You yourself now admit that a refugee crisis is a by product of the war and not the causus belli. I want to hear you use the words "middle eastern refugees" in the context of Ukraine again. You seem to have dodged that part of your claim.

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:05 AM, ozimoron said:

Kiev was never the capital of the soviet union.

Expand  

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:12 AM, Kwasaki said:

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

Expand  

Oops! Did the soviet union exist in 1240?

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:07 AM, placeholder said:

It would be a lesson about an alternative universe because Kiev was never the capital of the USSR.

Expand  

The city is still considered a sacred place for all Orthodox Christians in Russia and Ukraine. It was also the first capital of the Russian State, which at that time was known as Kiev Russ. From Kiev you move to magnificent Moscow, the present capital of Russia and its business and culture centre 

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:05 AM, Hummin said:

Well done, refusing to read anything of sources provided 

 

Russia Is Taking Advantage of the Invasion-Stirred Migration Crisis

 

By creating migration waves that will destabilize Europe, Putin is harming the continent without directly using military force against countries outside Ukraine. As ever, Putin is happy to generate chaos that will hurt others—and to take advantage of it for Russia

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/18/russia-ukraine-war-migration-food-crisis-putin/

Expand  

If you disagree with your critics here you will be vilified. ????

[placeholder]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:12 AM, Kwasaki said:

Oh dear !

 

OKyiv was the historical capital of medieval Kievan Rus' from 879 to 1240, and is now the largest city and the capital of Ukraine.

Expand  

That doesn't exactly support your case that Kiev was the capital of the USSR. Kievan Rus at its largest was only a fraction of the size of the USSR.

[Hummin]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:08 AM, ozimoron said:

You yourself now admit that a refugee crisis is a by product of the war and not the causus belli. I want to hear you use the words "middle eastern refugees" in the context of Ukraine again. You seem to have dodged that part of your claim.

Expand  

Go back and reread whats posted and qouted. 

 

I never had a problem to admit Im wrong, and have several times do e so on this fora! Others never ever admit they have been wrong and continue to the bitter end and the topic is closed or cleaned .

 

Sad, really

[Hummin]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:18 AM, Kwasaki said:

If you disagree with your critics here you will be vilified. ????

Expand  

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

 

 

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:39 AM, Hummin said:

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

 

 

Expand  

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:39 AM, Hummin said:

They dissagree with me and my sources and twist my opinion as it fits them while they are sinking in to their flaws of own retoric and understanding of the reality ????

Expand  

Yeah I find saying something neutral to there stance and stalkers prevail. ????

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:41 AM, ozimoron said:

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

Expand  

That's funny. ????

[Hummin]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:41 AM, ozimoron said:

The trick is to make sure your sources actually support your opinion.

Expand  

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:48 AM, Kwasaki said:

That's funny. ????

Expand  

I don't have a sense of humour that I'm aware of.

[ozimoron]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:50 AM, Hummin said:

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

Expand  

All I saw was irrelevant stuff like the definition of the term "refugee weaponisation". What I wanted to see but could not find was any credible evidence that the war was

 

1. Started as a pretext to create a refugee crisis to destabilise Europe. Not that it was a by product but started with that motive uppermost as you claimed.

 

2. That any of the refugees were of middle eastern origin other than those in Ukraine before the war.

 

3. That there was any connection between the middle east and the war in Ukraine as a pretext for starting the war..

[placeholder]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:50 AM, Hummin said:

If you read carefully you find the gold in the sources, but you decided I was wrong from the very beginning! Stoubbern as expected to be here at the forum trying to save their own pride.

Expand  

Projecting much?

[RanongCat]

  On 7/12/2023 at 3:45 AM, Kwasaki said:

Why don't you ignore my thoughts and opinions I refer to NATO no-one else.

Expand  

In propaganda war the ones on the side of biggest bestest media not want to think too far because is safer to agree with. Many ways to be honest sceptic of Nato intention.

If Russia was accepted  at time it  asked for then under rules of Nato Russia would be now neutralize. Refused because Nato need Russia as enemy to keep war machine soak in oil !

 

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 9:50 AM, ozimoron said:

I don't have a sense of humour that I'm aware of.

Expand  

There's opinions that are valid by people who don't agree with you.

 

One of my opinions now is Ukraine is wrong attacking now they should hold  line and wait for the F16 support.

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 10:45 AM, RanongCat said:

In propaganda war the ones on the side of biggest bestest media not want to think too far because is safer to agree with. Many ways to be honest sceptic of Nato intention.

If Russia was accepted  at time it  asked for then under rules of Nato Russia would be now neutralize. Refused because Nato need Russia as enemy to keep war machine soak in oil !

 

Expand  

That's strong criticism of NATO if I understand where your coming from.

[steven100]

  On 7/12/2023 at 6:36 AM, Summerinsiam said:

Zelenskey should understand that there are limits to what support can be offered,

Expand  

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?    oh'   if I remember correctly wasn't it the Budapest Nuclear agreement that Ukraine, the US, Russia and the UK signed in 1994 where In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security. 

How did that honest agreement work out for Ukraine  ??      I expect Zelenskey wouldn't trust one work from any of their dishonest mouths.  

 

Europe is using Ukraine as a block to stop Russia advancing further west ....  let Russia have Ukraine  !    then see if NATO and the other sit back and watch ......      probably start shaking in their boots. 

 

Not one of those speakers at the Summit could hold a candle to Zelenskey,  they're weak as p_ss ..     that's just my opinion ....   and I suspect alot of others would agree ....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 11:02 AM, steven100 said:

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?    oh'   if I remember correctly wasn't it the Budapest Nuclear agreement that Ukraine, the US, Russia and the UK signed in 1994 where In exchange, the U.S., the U.K. and Russia would guarantee Ukraine's security. 

How did that honest agreement work out for Ukraine  ??      I expect Zelenskey wouldn't trust one work from any of their dishonest mouths.  

 

Europe is using Ukraine as a block to stop Russia advancing further west ....  let Russia have Ukraine  !    then see if NATO and the other sit back and watch ......      probably start shaking in their boots. 

 

Not one of those speakers at the Summit could hold a candle to Zelenskey,  they're weal as p_ss   imo.

Expand  

I think most see understandable Zelenskes impatient stance, he needs more statgegty support and should wait for air power support.

[placeholder]

  On 7/12/2023 at 11:02 AM, steven100 said:

fine ......   so if Zelenskey decided to pack up and let Russia have Ukraine that would be ok for NATO, the EU and the US ?   

Expand  

I think Zelensky is doing a great job, but I didn't know that he was singlehandedly battling the Russians. Does he wear a cape when he's fighting?

[steven100]

  On 7/12/2023 at 11:08 AM, Kwasaki said:

I think most see understandable Zelenskes impatient stance, he needs more statgegty support and should wait for air power support.

Expand  

agree .....  they'  NATO, EU and the US shouldn't  drag their feet as they do most of the time,   remember every day is costing Ukraine lives .... they should step up to the plate also.

[novacova]

Ukraine will never be a member of NATO as long as the current autocratic kleptocratic government of Russia exists, at least not during the lifetime of anyone here. So stop the pipe dreaming, it’s useless.

[Kwasaki]

  On 7/12/2023 at 11:16 AM, steven100 said:

agree .....  they'  NATO, EU and the US shouldn't  drag their feet as they do most of the time,   remember every day is costing Ukraine lives .... they should step up to the plate also.

Expand  

Yeah I am so annoyed at America and Nato countries still not doing enough whether it be advice or munitions supplies.

[steven100]

  On 7/12/2023 at 11:24 AM, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I am so annoyed at America and Nato countries still not doing enough whether it be advice or munitions supplies.

Expand  

and remember,  not even half of what was promised have been delivered ..