Two Examples Of What High Cost Of Living Means In Hard Cash Terms

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

I hope that your health has improved.

 

Your experience and the numerous surveys by reputable organisations pointing out the problems in the UK housing are all wrong. 

 

We are both lazy. The solutions are obvious: In my case, I should do my own research, which would clearly show that the various  survey findings are all incorrect. In your case you simply " .... didn't search hard enough".????

Have a look. 

 

30 properties for rent in one town at under £600 pcm. That's on today's prices.

 

Prices last year, as we know, we're lower.

 

All it takes are some simple searches. Just need to sort through.

 

Nice properties currently available in my home town at under £600 pcm.

 

All your research has done is come up with average figures. We've agreed they distort the real picture.

Edited July 28, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[RayC]

19 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Have a look. 

 

30 properties for rent in one town at under £600 pcm. That's on today's prices.

 

Prices last year, as we know, we're lower.

 

All it takes are some simple searches. Just need to sort through.

 

Nice properties currently available in my home town at under £600 pcm.

 

All your research has done is come up with average figures. We've agreed they distort the real picture.

Notwithstanding that the findings of the BBC/Rightmove survey are the result of a nationwide survey with a large dataset - which has (presumably) followed a statistically valid methodology - and your findings are the result of "some simple searches" and a much smaller dataset, have you considered that it might be possible that your results are outliers, and not a true reflection of the 'real world'?

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

Notwithstanding that the findings of the BBC/Rightmove survey are the result of a nationwide survey with a large dataset - which has (presumably) followed a statistically valid methodology - and your findings are the result of "some simple searches" and a much smaller dataset, have you considered that it might be possible that your results are outliers, and not a true reflection of the 'real world'?

Rightmove were one of my sources. 

 

No methology needed. A poster made a comment that I've proved to be false, with the help of Rightmove. 

 

I believe those properties for £600pcm or under are in the real world. Is there a Blackpool in a parallel universe?

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[RayC]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Rightmove were one of my sources. 

 

No methodology needed. A poster made a comment that I've proved to be false, with the help of Rightmove. 

 

I believe those properties for £600pcm or under are in the real world. Is there a Blackpool in a parallel universe?

 

 

You certainly haven't proven the findings of the BBC/ Rightmove survey to be incorrect which is the subject of my posts.

 

My knowledge of theoretical physics leaves a lot to be desired, so I can't offer an opinion regarding the existence of an alternative Blackpool in a parallel universe.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

You certainly haven't proven the findings of the BBC/ Rightmove survey to be incorrect which is the subject of my posts.

 

My knowledge of theoretical physics leaves a lot to be desired, so I can't offer an opinion regarding the existence of an alternative Blackpool in a parallel universe.

Maybe you have knowledge of psychology that could explain your selective reading.

[RayC]

8 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Maybe you have knowledge of psychology that could explain your selective reading.

I don't. 

 

Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the texts that explain the soundness of your statistical approach.

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

I don't. 

 

Perhaps you could point me in the direction of the texts that explain the soundness of your statistical approach.

I have told you many times about my research.

 

You chose to ignore it. As they say in Thailand " up to you".

[RayC]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

As they say in Thailand " up to you".

Absolutely????

[simon43]

I went back and looked again at the 31 properties currently listed for rent in Blackpool at under 600 pounds per month.  Many of these listings were for a room in a shared house, (which IMHO is not really suitable for long-term living).

 

But indeed there are some single-occupancy flats in Blackpool (a cheap area to live in compared to other UK regions because it is .. er ... a dump!). But if I were returning to live in the UK permanently (after 20+ years in south-east Asia), I would then have the hurdle of zero credit history (I checked during my recent visit and my details exist on Experian etc). Most landlords won't rent to those with zero credit history.

 

But if I got over that hurdle, then high rents do not really paint the whole picture.  Add in council tax (or whatever it's called nowadays), high electricity and heating bills (especially during the winter), high food costs, high transport costs... I could go on and on!

 

I realise that this thread is not about comparing UK living costs with Thailand/south-east Asia.  But as a soon-to-be pensioner, you can maybe understand why I had no choice but to reject returning/living in the UK - the overall living costs in ALL regions of the country would make for a miserable retirement ????

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

I went back and looked again at the 31 properties currently listed for rent in Blackpool at under 600 pounds per month.  Many of these listings were for a room in a shared house, (which IMHO is not really suitable for long-term living).

 

But indeed there are some single-occupancy flats in Blackpool (a cheap area to live in compared to other UK regions because it is .. er ... a dump!). But if I were returning to live in the UK permanently (after 20+ years in south-east Asia), I would then have the hurdle of zero credit history (I checked during my recent visit and my details exist on Experian etc). Most landlords won't rent to those with zero credit history.

 

But if I got over that hurdle, then high rents do not really paint the whole picture.  Add in council tax (or whatever it's called nowadays), high electricity and heating bills (especially during the winter), high food costs, high transport costs... I could go on and on!

 

I realise that this thread is not about comparing UK living costs with Thailand/south-east Asia.  But as a soon-to-be pensioner, you can maybe understand why I had no choice but to reject returning/living in the UK - the overall living costs in ALL regions of the country would make for a miserable retirement ????

I returned to UK with those same hurdles.

 

Easily cleared those hurdles and continued with life in UK.

 

Your searches seem " off". 

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/Blackpool.html

 

Add a filter of £600pcm and "House share not wanted" and see 23 properties £600pcm or less. Remember, this is during a so called housing crisis. With high rents and nothing affordable. That wasn't happening when you were there. Prices would gave been cheaper.

Edited July 31, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Davidlong]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:46 AM, stratocaster said:

A mortgage monthly repayment 12 months ago was 989 pounds per week. This month repayment was 1,690 pounds. That is for a 300,000 pound house slightly up from the 225,000 average UK price.

Yearly motor car insurance 12 months ago 438 pounds, this month 657 pounds for a Dacia Jogger the cheapest seven seater in the UK.

My niece has a maximum no claims bonus, clean license, and pays 2,345 pounds for a 4 year old Audi TT up from last renewal of 1,766 pounds.

 

 

Wow, that is a lot, I didn't know it all costed that much.

[simon43]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I returned to UK with those same hurdles.

 

Easily cleared those hurdles and continued with life in UK.

 

Your searches seem " off". 

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/Blackpool.html

 

Add a filter of £600pcm and "House share not wanted" and see 23 properties £600pcm or less. Remember, this is during a so called housing crisis. With high rents and nothing affordable. That wasn't happening when you were there. Prices would gave been cheaper.

You have not commented on the usual requirement for a credit check, plus the high cost of energy bills, council tax etc.  Well done if those are not hurdles for you.  For me, it makes zero economic sense to return to the UK when my cost of living is so much cheaper in south-east Asia.

[youreavinalaff]

23 hours ago, simon43 said:

You have not commented on the usual requirement for a credit check, plus the high cost of energy bills, council tax etc.  Well done if those are not hurdles for you.  For me, it makes zero economic sense to return to the UK when my cost of living is so much cheaper in south-east Asia.

Thanks for pointing out it is a matter of economic issues personal to you and not the norm.

[Chomper Higgot]

50 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Thanks for pointing out it is a matter of economic issues personal to you and not the norm.

Isn’t that the kind of personal experience/anecdote of the kind you yourself so often base your posts on?

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Isn’t that the kind of personal experience/anecdote of the kind you yourself so often base your posts on?

 

No. If you look at my posts, I was using information from research. I've also provided links.

 

Do try to keep up.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. If you look at my posts, I was using information from research. I've also provided links.

 

Do try to keep up.

I'm always keen to increase my knowledge when it comes to research. Perhaps you would be good enough to detail your approach?

 

I'm still intrigued why you (seemingly) consider your findings a more accurate view of the 'real' world than the BBC survey, especially as you have both used Rightmove as a source?

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

I'm always keen to increase my knowledge when it comes to research. Perhaps you would be good enough to detail your approach?

 

I'm still intrigued why you (seemingly) consider your findings a more accurate view of the 'real' world than the BBC survey, especially as you have both used Rightmove as a source?

As explained previously, a comment you agreed with, average figures do not paint the correct picture.

 

By using real prices, prices of properties currently on the market, the figures paint a more accurate picture.

 

I initially use Rightmove, sometimes Zoopla, then I also search the websites of agents advertising those two sites. 

 

It really isn't difficult.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

As explained previously, a comment you agreed with, average figures do not paint the correct picture.

No, I did not agree that average figures do not paint the correct picture.

 

What I said was that the use of 'averages' has limitations, may distort the picture and that I would prefer to see median values used (which unfortunately are difficult to find): Nevertheless, the 'average' still has its' uses and can be revealing.

 

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

By using real prices, prices of properties currently on the market, the figures paint a more accurate picture.

 

The data used by the BBC/Rightmove survey presumably used 'real prices', the prices of properties currently on the market. I imagine that it is how they arrived at their average figures.

 

The figures you quote do not paint a more accurate picture. Indeed, they paint a less accurate picture as you chose a smaller population (sample) to which you then applied a filter.

 

How can you claim that this is a more accurate representation of the wider market?

 

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

I initially use Rightmove, sometimes Zoopla, then I also search the websites of agents advertising those two sites. 

 

It really isn't difficult.

It certainly isn't difficult. It's also not clear that it is a valid methodology.

 

The most that can be said for your approach is that it has revealed that there are some properties available in SW England and Blackpool which are below the regional and national averages. That in itself should be no surprise as - unless all values in the sample are identical - it will be true by definition. However, no other conclusions can be drawn from your research.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

No, I did not agree that average figures do not paint the correct picture.

 

What I said was that the use of 'averages' has limitations, may distort the picture and that I would prefer to see median values used (which unfortunately are difficult to find): Nevertheless, the 'average' still has its' uses and can be revealing.

 

 

The data used by the BBC/Rightmove survey presumably used 'real prices', the prices of properties currently on the market. I imagine that it is how they arrived at their average figures.

 

The figures you quote do not paint a more accurate picture. Indeed, they paint a less accurate picture as you chose a smaller population (sample) to which you then applied a filter.

 

How can you claim that this is a more accurate representation of the wider market?

 

It certainly isn't difficult. It's also not clear that it is a valid methodology.

 

The most that can be said for your approach is that it has revealed that there are some properties available in SW England and Blackpool which are below the regional and national averages. That in itself should be no surprise as - unless all values in the sample are identical - it will be true by definition. However, no other conclusions can be drawn from your research.

And yet on other threads I'm told a survey of 1000 people can prove a point.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

I posted about SW England and Blackpool as one is where I live and the other was in response to untrue claims by another poster.

 

There are plenty of other places where there are properties well under the UK average.

 

Not to mention the report today of the largest drop in property prices for many years.

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, RayC said:

The most that can be said for your approach is that it has revealed that there are some properties available in SW England and Blackpool which are below the regional and national averages. That in itself should be no surprise as - unless all values in the sample are identical - it will be true by definition. However, no other conclusions can be drawn from your research.

Just had a quick check using a few home towns of family and friends. 

 

Great Yarmouth, Kings Lynn, Milton Keynes, Sheffield, Retford and Shrewsbury. All have properties for rent, with at least one bedroom, at under £600pcm.

[RayC]

6 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

And yet on other threads I'm told a survey of 1000 people can prove a point.

 

Can't have it both ways.

The BBC dataset consists of data from all over the UK. Your dataset is limited to a very few specific geographical areas. Your sampling frame is flawed and the BBC analysis is therefore more likely to be representative of the UK market as a whole.

 

So long as the sampling frame is well-defined, then a surprisingly small sample size can often be representative of the wider population. Type 25000000 into the population field in the attached link and look at the result.

 

https://www.checkmarket.com/sample-size-calculator/#sample-size-calculator

 

6 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

I posted about SW England and Blackpool as one is where I live and the other was in response to untrue claims by another poster.

 

There are plenty of other places where there are properties well under the UK average.

See above.

 

Also as I previous explained, unless all the observations have the same value, there will, by definition, be values below (and above) the average. It reveals nothing.

 

6 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

 

Not to mention the report today of the largest drop in property prices for many years.

New information which does not form part of the discussion about the flaws in your analysis.

[RayC]

6 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Just had a quick check using a few home towns of family and friends. 

 

Great Yarmouth, Kings Lynn, Milton Keynes, Sheffield, Retford and Shrewsbury. All have properties for rent, with at least one bedroom, at under £600pcm.

Numbers 4-10 in the attached link are the most relevant

 

https://www.techtarget.com/searchbusinessanalytics/feature/8-types-of-bias-in-data-analysis-and-how-to-avoid-them

[youreavinalaff]

8 hours ago, RayC said:

Numbers 4-10 in the attached link are the most relevant

 

https://www.techtarget.com/searchbusinessanalytics/feature/8-types-of-bias-in-data-analysis-and-how-to-avoid-them

You've summed it up very well.

 

The words "BBC and "Bias" together in your replies hits the nail on the head.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

And yet on other threads I'm told a survey of 1000 people can prove a point.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

I posted about SW England and Blackpool as one is where I live and the other was in response to untrue claims by another poster.

 

There are plenty of other places where there are properties well under the UK average.

 

Not to mention the report today of the largest drop in property prices for many years.

He’s a problem for your claimed ‘research’, objections to ‘averages’ and surveys of 1000 people.

 

The Central Limit Theorem.

 

You cast your net around regional towns catch a few outliers on the price index, as you have done, but in order to demonstrate the prices are indicative of real experience in those areas you need more samples. 
 

The more samples you get the closer to the mean your results will become, and therefore closer to the actual experience of most people in the market.

 

The other problem is despite claiming to have undertaken ‘research’ you have done nothing of the sort.

 

You have started with a premise and then set about seeking confirmation of your premise, in doing so demonstrating a classic example of that other issue you mention ‘bias’, or more specifically, active confirmation bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He’s a problem for your claimed ‘research’, objections to ‘averages’ and surveys of 1000 people.

 

The Central Limit Theorem.

 

You cast your net around regional towns catch a few outliers on the price index, as you have done, but in order to demonstrate the prices are indicative of real experience in those areas you need more samples. 
 

The more samples you get the closer to the mean your results will become, and therefore closer to the actual experience of most people in the market.

 

The other problem is despite claiming to have undertaken ‘research’ you have done nothing of the sort.

 

You have started with a premise and then set about seeking confirmation of your premise, in doing so demonstrating a classic example of that other issue you mention ‘bias’, or more specifically, active confirmation bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No. You can quote as much scientific blurb as you like.

 

I posted facts to prove there is affordable housing in many places in UK. Much cheaper than averages posted. 

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

No. You can quote as much scientific blurb as you like.

 

I posted facts to prove there is affordable housing in many places in UK. Much cheaper than averages posted. 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t post any ‘scientific blurb’.

 

I did however explain the gaping hole in what you claim to be your ‘research’ and how your ‘research’ is actually an exercise in active confirmation bias.

 

 

[stratocaster]

Comparing rents is impossible unless the comparisons are like for like. For an example, an identical property with no off road parking is around 300 pounds a month cheaper than a property with a 2 car off road parking in London.

A completely unscientific take on property rents using 5 in a scale 1 to 10 for area, which is the biggest factor in any kind of property, renting or buying.

My home town 15.6% unemployment rate and 25,000 average salary, shows an average rental of 574 pounds for a studio and 1200 pounds for a 2 bedroom semi. London, close  to Heathrow  with an unemployment rate of 4.5% and an average salary of 35,000 shows an average rent of a studio at 1200 pounds and 2700 pounds for a 2 bedroom semi.

As you can see leveling up has been a massive success. Cheap rents but no work, expensive rents buts lots of work.

The average mortgage holder in the UK is now paying 46% of their income in mortgage repayments a 15 year high.

[stratocaster]

My apologies . The unemployment rate used for my hometown is actually the economically inactive rate among 16 to 64 year olds. the unemployment rate is 5%.