Selfish Thais ?

[markwhite]

I don't think one needs to justify being selfish. Much of individual and family progress (and general progress in the world) is due to being selfish.

Okay - there's degrees of selfishness. To be orientated towards the self is, by and large, a natural process which we all must go through. To stamp the authority of 'I want' all over everyone else is to be selfish in a different way.

There is nothing wrong with saying "I want" and then trying to get it.

For me it depends what effect that has on others, but I suppose that's averting a truly selfish act. Maybe my selfishness is not limitless in that way, so I can't relate fully to the experience of someone who wants something and will get it /no matter what it takes/.

After all, when a baby is born, all that the baby knows is what it wants.

I believed a baby has no concept of very much at all when it's born. All new experiences it has (sensory perception, feelings of hunger, sleep and eliminatory needs) are scary and it expresses itself in the obvious way. It will learn that satisfied needs cause the feelings to subside and learn to associate hunger-food, bowel discomfort-defecation and so develop a 'knowing' of what it 'needs'. 'Wants' come about with all sort of Freudian stuff that I don't pretend to recall. And anyway - what do I know. This is only stuff I've read. I'll start to experience it for real in a month or so...

While I said being judgmental was also human nature, I wasn't trying to also say that being judgmental was a good thing or bad thing across the board.

As with the first point, I'm fine with this as far as ego development and health is concerned. In this context i was taking 'judgmental' as referring to the actions, behaviour or appearance of others, which I don't consider to be a beneficial personality trait. But to be able to judge between one thing and another and realise which is most beneficial for oneself is an important skill.

(I agree with you about trying to resist urges to be judgmental of others.)

Fairy nuff :-)

Thailand ain't the midwest and vice versa. In other words, it's not realistic for people to bring western opinions and mentalities to Thailand and expect them to apply in any or all situations.

I agree. A while ago the "This Is Thailand" thing would wind me up. Like, of course it's Thailand. You expected it to be the same as somewhere else?

But hey: that was just me slapping my expectations on other people too. I've grown out of that particular one now.

And I did jump one your post rather quickly. I still don't agree with you, but I enjoyed your reply :-)

[mcgriffith]

You guys (and gals) have me in stitches...

Sturm und Drang, all the myriad angst attached to these relationships.

Just gives me a BIG SMILE of enjoyment...being single!

McG

btw: divorced in 1990, 22 yr old son, on good terms with the ex; happily single in Thailand

Edited July 18, 2007 by mcgriffith

[duratanium]

I can see that Thais will often look after number 1 first.

Who are you primarily concerned about in this post? Someone else, or 'number 1'?

I would have thought that due consideration of both parties would be more to the point here.

she got the coffee flask and cups out and gave her sister and herself a drink and totally ignored the driver - me.

This just reads like you're sulking.

Really? I was helping out and she could not even be bothered to offer me a coffee? That smacvks of lacking in thought. I would have acted otherwise - but then again, I am not like you one iota!!

Within minutes I was told - so LOUD!! We cannot talk here (in the back seat). The end result was I turning off the cd player to get some peace. No thought that I was getting tired in the driving conditions and listening to the contant banter between the girls in the back seat and that the music was helping - something I had tried to get across.

So you wanted something and didn't get it. She wanted something else and got it. And she's selfish as a result, but you're not?

More to the point that I wanted something to aid with the driving other than the continuous banter from the back seat, especially in the tiring driving conditions.

If the g/f goes for fried rice or whatever in the car to bring back to the house, she will always make sure she sits and eats hers there and has a good chin wag before - abt 30 minutes or so later - bringing mine back and leaving me to eat alone. (the reason for eating at the house is lack of fans etc where they cook the food, making it uncomfortable when hot).

So she does what she wants (eats with her friends and talks) and you do what you want (eat in the cooler house). This is a problem how?

Due consideration? Or are you such an assh*le that you do not know about that???

It sounds like you have expectations of how she should behave, and when she doesn't, you're not happy. Do you want her to be herself, or do you want her to be something that you need to pander to your ego?

ROFLMFAO at that.

Just a few instances listed. But is you g/f / b/f the same or is it mine?

When we first got together, my wife admitted she was selfish. There were times when she'd do things that I would rather she didn't, but I could either insist she did what I wanted her to do and be some sort of godawful control-freak (like my mum!), or I could realise that it's none of my business what she does with her life. She was working 6 days a week almost straight out of university and earning decent money. I'd just spent the previous 18 months wallowing in selfishness, smoking and drinking myself stupid, laying in hammocks on beaches and generally being a bum. And I had a reason to stop her from doing what she wanted when I'd been doing exactly what I wanted to do? No...

Now, the things she does that are selfish are either lessened, or they don't bother me like they used to. I don't notice them to any great degree, and I think it's a bit of each: I gave her the space to be selfish and let her get it out of her system and she has, and some of the parts of 'how she is' are how she is, and I either accept that or spend my life wanting her to be something she's not.

I'm quite content with my relationship with my wife. It's sad that you're not, but the very things you accuse her are things you could be accused of too.

If you had spent so long wallowing, then that has to make you a very sad person indeed.

As you know <deleted> all about me or what I do for her and the family you have no place to sit in judgement on what I may or may not do and I am far from selfish in what I do for her or others, here or back home.

This is more about doing things for others - unlike you and your wallowing in self pity - and being shown scant respect for doing so. Also more about attitude. If I treated a woman in the same way, then I would expect to be berated for doing so.

Ever heard of give and take?

[markwhite]

Thaivisa doesn't like the numbers of quotes I've used, so I'll use " for them instead.

"I would have thought that due consideration of both parties would be more to the point here."

Fair enough. Another poster said that we only get one side of the story with your message. You didn't say anything about how you do things for her in the original post, though you do say you pay for certain things in a later post and you say you do things for her and others in this post.

Your original post read 'I wanted this and didn't get it, so she doesn't think of me so she's selfish'. It didn't say 'this is what I do for her and this is how she repays me'.

"Really? I was helping out and she could not even be bothered to offer me a coffee? That smacvks of lacking in thought. I would have acted otherwise - but then again, I am not like you one iota!!"

You're unhappy because you weren't in her thoughts at that particular time? You expect her to be more like you in her acts?

"More to the point that I wanted something to aid with the driving other than the continuous banter from the back seat, especially in the tiring driving conditions."

I don't think that's unreasonable as such, it's more your reaction to not getting what you want. You seemed to expect someone else to do something about what you wanted, but you say nothing about doing anything for yourself.

"Due consideration? Or are you such an assh*le that you do not know about that???"

You seem to be really angry with me.

How does your example show consideration to what she wants? You want her to be considerate towards you so she should do things your way? How were you considerate to her in her wish to talk to her friend and not listen to the music?

"ROFLMFAO at that."

Better to laugh than be angry :-)

"If you had spent so long wallowing, then that has to make you a very sad person indeed. "

I wasn't sad as such, though you seem to use the word in a derogatory way, rather than in just a 'you must have been unhappy' way. I was certainly confused about how my life would settle down after taking the decision to sell everything I owned to live out here with just a backpack. It was a period of adjustment and I worked through a lot of crap from my life, and finished that period of time a much more content person.

So whether I was 'sad' or not is completely irrelevant, whether it's true from anyone's perspective or not. That it was something I benefitted from doing is much more important to me.

"As you know <deleted> all about me or what I do for her and the family you have no place to sit in judgement on what I may or may not do and I am far from selfish in what I do for her or others, here or back home."

You're back to sounding angry again.

I only know what you've said here. and you chose those words to represent how you were feeling about the situation with your girlfriend. Also all of my responses (except maybe the 'It sounds like you were sulking' one) are summaries or reflections of your own words, turned into questions. Your response to those questions has been, generally, anger. Maybe mixed with a little dismissal or sarcasm.

Is that how you react when people don't treat you how you want? Is this your way of dealing with a lack of show of respect? By being disrespectful and angry back?

"This is more about doing things for others - unlike you "

Would it be completely inappropriate here to quote your message?

'As you know <deleted> all about me or what I do'

Like I suggested before with the selfishness, you are displaying the same behaviour here that you're accusing me of. You have said I know nothing about you and that I'm judgmental, then claim to know about me and judge me for it :-)

"and your wallowing in self pity"

I have been, and potentially will be, a great and practised self-pitier. Right now I have no need to do it, but I will not deny what I have been.

"and being shown scant respect for doing so."

You're not doing things out of love then? You're doing them because you're expecting something back?

"If I treated a woman in the same way, then I would expect to be berated for doing so."

And you expect other people to be like you?

[jbowman1993]

Thaivisa doesn't like the numbers of quotes I've used, so I'll use " for them instead.

"I would have thought that due consideration of both parties would be more to the point here."

Fair enough. Another poster said that we only get one side of the story with your message. You didn't say anything about how you do things for her in the original post, though you do say you pay for certain things in a later post and you say you do things for her and others in this post.

Your original post read 'I wanted this and didn't get it, so she doesn't think of me so she's selfish'. It didn't say 'this is what I do for her and this is how she repays me'.

"Really? I was helping out and she could not even be bothered to offer me a coffee? That smacvks of lacking in thought. I would have acted otherwise - but then again, I am not like you one iota!!"

You're unhappy because you weren't in her thoughts at that particular time? You expect her to be more like you in her acts?

"More to the point that I wanted something to aid with the driving other than the continuous banter from the back seat, especially in the tiring driving conditions."

I don't think that's unreasonable as such, it's more your reaction to not getting what you want. You seemed to expect someone else to do something about what you wanted, but you say nothing about doing anything for yourself.

"Due consideration? Or are you such an assh*le that you do not know about that???"

You seem to be really angry with me.

How does your example show consideration to what she wants? You want her to be considerate towards you so she should do things your way? How were you considerate to her in her wish to talk to her friend and not listen to the music?

"ROFLMFAO at that."

Better to laugh than be angry :-)

"If you had spent so long wallowing, then that has to make you a very sad person indeed. "

I wasn't sad as such, though you seem to use the word in a derogatory way, rather than in just a 'you must have been unhappy' way. I was certainly confused about how my life would settle down after taking the decision to sell everything I owned to live out here with just a backpack. It was a period of adjustment and I worked through a lot of crap from my life, and finished that period of time a much more content person.

So whether I was 'sad' or not is completely irrelevant, whether it's true from anyone's perspective or not. That it was something I benefitted from doing is much more important to me.

"As you know <deleted> all about me or what I do for her and the family you have no place to sit in judgement on what I may or may not do and I am far from selfish in what I do for her or others, here or back home."

You're back to sounding angry again.

I only know what you've said here. and you chose those words to represent how you were feeling about the situation with your girlfriend. Also all of my responses (except maybe the 'It sounds like you were sulking' one) are summaries or reflections of your own words, turned into questions. Your response to those questions has been, generally, anger. Maybe mixed with a little dismissal or sarcasm.

Is that how you react when people don't treat you how you want? Is this your way of dealing with a lack of show of respect? By being disrespectful and angry back?

"This is more about doing things for others - unlike you "

Would it be completely inappropriate here to quote your message?

'As you know <deleted> all about me or what I do'

Like I suggested before with the selfishness, you are displaying the same behaviour here that you're accusing me of. You have said I know nothing about you and that I'm judgmental, then claim to know about me and judge me for it :-)

"and your wallowing in self pity"

I have been, and potentially will be, a great and practised self-pitier. Right now I have no need to do it, but I will not deny what I have been.

"and being shown scant respect for doing so."

You're not doing things out of love then? You're doing them because you're expecting something back?

"If I treated a woman in the same way, then I would expect to be berated for doing so."

And you expect other people to be like you?

Sorry, Mark. I fell asleep. What were you saying?

[markwhite]

Sorry, Mark. I fell asleep. What were you saying?

That's okay. It wasn't a response to you anyway.

[Sakeopete]

yes,these pooying need keeping in check.maybe start sending her out to get the meals for you,& keep the tv remote in your pocket so you dont have to sit through weepy thai soaps.you know you have a good one when she puts the toothpaste on toothbrush for you.

My wife does that too but as she says its only to mask the poison she mixed it with

Honsetly though after nearly 6 years together my wife still tries to do everything for me. I try and stop her but she refuses any guy would be hard pressed to find a western women who is so thoughfull and giving.