31 minutes ago, illisdean said:

You like most here fail to understand the PRA is not a criminal statute and that NARA cannot prosecute Trump or any POTUS for retention of classified docs. Should be simple and straight forward for you and the others.

The DoJ can prosecute him for unauthorized possession of classified documents. It may do so, though likely his criminal lawyers would demand the docs be exposed as evidence.

 

trump stole---there is no other word for willful removal---documents rated TS, SCI, Codeword, HCS and RD. He did not declassify, and he certainly cannot declassify in his mind. There is zero paper trail of any declassification.

 

When confronted with his theft he lied (felony). He instructed his minions to destroy evidence (felony).

 

ANYONE else in illegal possession of such sensitive docs would already be jailed pending trial. Even his goobers can offer so reason why trump would steal all of those docs. The obvious answer is trump hoped to monetize them.

 

POTUSs never have a security clearance, not even when serving. Certainly they do not have one after being soundly defeated.

 

Perhaps you do not understand the nature of the docs trump stole. HCS is Human Clandestine Sources, meaning identities of agency assets are in them. Not even a sitting POTUS is given identity details, only things like "a long time source whose previous reporting has proven accurate". trump would have had to get those docs from one of the goobers he appointed as DNI, such as Grenell or Ratcliffe. No way Coates would have given him such things.

 

Clandestine assets and potential assets now know a reckless clown like trump could expose them and put them and their families in danger. That means some will refuse recruitment or quit, leaving the US more vulnerable. trump's big mouth with Lavrov and Kislyak ended up getting an Israeli penetration of a Moslem terrorist group beheaded.

 

Another point...with RD classified docs, there can be no claim of declassification, because only the Dept of Energy can declassify RD rated docs, as they pertain to nuclear matters about which a moron like trump would know absolutely nothing.

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Why do you believe that Trump was entitle to have these documents? Just because there are no criminal penalties under the PRA, that doesn't mean Trump was entitled to have them. The law is very clear about that. Willful possession is a violation. If you refuse to return the documents when they are requested by NARA, that's also a violation.

And why exactly do you think it's not a criminal act to lie to the Justice Dept in the course of an investigation?

Why do you think it's not a crime to share the contents of a classified document with other unauthorized persons?

 

  What were the actual documents in question ?

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What were the actual documents in question ?

They were classified TS, SCI, Codeword, HCS and RD.

 

Most such documents are "Eyes Only", and even when brought by courier to the White House from Langley or Ft Meade, they are either burned in the White House or couriered back to their source.

 

When I was in the agency, I could have gotten a security violation just for leaving a doc out of the safe overnight. That is in a facility only accessed through heavily armed guards, into a building requiring a badge to enter, up to a floor and behind a cipher locked Branch, and then even in an additional cipher locked room.

 

trump stole these things and had them in a country club where anyone with $200K could join. Case Officers in other intelligence services did join, including two female members of China's MSS. Do any trumpers think they joined for the buffet?

15 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

They were classified TS, SCI, Codeword, HCS and RD.

 

Most such documents are "Eyes Only", and even when brought by courier to the White House from Langley or Ft Meade, they are either burned in the White House or couriered back to their source.

 

When I was in the agency, I could have gotten a security violation just for leaving a doc out of the safe overnight. That is in a facility only accessed through heavily armed guards, into a building requiring a badge to enter, up to a floor and behind a cipher locked Branch, and then even in an additional cipher locked room.

 

trump stole these things and had them in a country club where anyone with $200K could join. Case Officers in other intelligence services did join, including two female members of China's MSS. Do any trumpers think they joined for the buffet?

During his reading Trump specifically noted that the document he was reading from was classified. He said he could have declassified it when he was President, but didn't. This is on an audio recording.

1 hour ago, illisdean said:

Strange then that Trump has not been charged for possessing classified docs he was entitled to have. Neither has Biden and oh,  he had no such rights under the PRA. Persecution and corruption is the lunatic left's last desperate attempt to take away the right and will of more than 70M voters. US is broaching full on banana republic status, albeit a democratic banana republic.

You seem confused about the Presidential Records Act, which explicitly states that former presidents may not retain documents from their administration.

 

Trump was not charged with retention of all the documents he took to Mar-A-Lago, only those containing Defense information. Retention of such documents is prohibited by the Espionage Act.

 

2 hours ago, illisdean said:

You like most here fail to understand the PRA is not a criminal statute and that NARA cannot prosecute Trump or any POTUS for retention of classified docs. Should be simple and straight forward for you and the others.

First read what the espionage act is , which is what he is being charged with in addition obstruction . 

But not to worry, just as soon you bring this to the attention of Judge Aileen Cannon , who was nominated by trump , I am sure she will promptly dismiss most of the charges, .

And you will win the legal scholar of the year award. 

46 minutes ago, sirineou said:

First read what the espionage act is , which is what he is being charged with in addition obstruction

Go read the AFFIDAVIT, predicated on looking for classified docs, nothing more than a criminal fishing expedition in search of a crime to try and stop your political opponent who is annihilating you in every way possible way.

Must be a low point for the Biden crime family and regime accomplishments and a huge source of humiliation for Biden and his now fed felon indicted crack head junkie extraordinaire. The deep state including the doddering fool Biden are so fearful of Trump winning the 2024 election they will do anything and say anything. This IS a failing strategy as anyone with a functioning brain can see, but go read the polls and see how just unpopular Biden truly is. My guess he gets shown the door after the August DNC since they changed the rules there on selecting candidates so now no vote or primary is needed. Good bye Joe...hello ....Kamala?

5 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Go read the AFFIDAVIT, predicated on looking for classified docs, nothing more than a criminal fishing expedition in search of a crime to try and stop your political opponent who is annihilating you in every way possible way.

Must be a low point for the Biden crime family and regime accomplishments and a huge source of humiliation for Biden and his now fed felon indicted crack head junkie extraordinaire. The deep state including the doddering fool Biden are so fearful of Trump winning the 2024 election they will do anything and say anything. This IS a failing strategy as anyone with a functioning brain can see, but go read the polls and see how just unpopular Biden truly is. My guess he gets shown the door after the August DNC since they changed the rules there on selecting candidates so now no vote or primary is needed. Good bye Joe...hello ....Kamala?

Nonsense , I cant even read your whole reply. 

the judge in the case is a trump appointee, and by all accounts pro trump, If indeed thing are as you say, don't you think she would have dismissed the case? 

But I don't expect an answer just more foaming at the mouth. 

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Nonsense , I cant even read your whole reply. 

the judge in the case is a trump appointee, and by all accounts pro trump, If indeed thing are as you say, don't you think she would have dismissed the case? 

But I don't expect an answer just more foaming at the mouth. 

Up to you and all your meaningless innuendo, AKA nothing-burger.

46 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Go read the AFFIDAVIT, predicated on looking for classified docs, nothing more than a criminal fishing expedition in search of a crime to try and stop your political opponent who is annihilating you in every way possible way.

Must be a low point for the Biden crime family and regime accomplishments and a huge source of humiliation for Biden and his now fed felon indicted crack head junkie extraordinaire. The deep state including the doddering fool Biden are so fearful of Trump winning the 2024 election they will do anything and say anything. This IS a failing strategy as anyone with a functioning brain can see, but go read the polls and see how just unpopular Biden truly is. My guess he gets shown the door after the August DNC since they changed the rules there on selecting candidates so now no vote or primary is needed. Good bye Joe...hello ....Kamala?

More nonsense from you. William Barr appointed John Durham to find evidence of a so-called deep state conspiracy against Trump. He even accompanied Durham to Italy in the hope of getting some information from Italian intelligence authorities. Barr met every weekend with Durham. In the end, Durham found absolutely zero evidence of any conspiracy against Trump.

As for the polls...there are 11 months to to. Trump has it will within his power to demolish his chances.

37 minutes ago, illisdean said:

Up to you and all your meaningless innuendo, AKA nothing-burger.

As for the criminal fishing expedition charge, guess what, they hauled in a big. In fact several big ones. There is a huge amount of evidence to show that Trump purposely withheld classified documents he was not authorized to have after their return was requested.

2 hours ago, illisdean said:

Up to you and all your meaningless innuendo, AKA nothing-burger.

and yet no answer from you as to ,if what you say is true why the case is not dismissed;

just ;meaningless innuendo from me 

4 hours ago, illisdean said:

Go read the AFFIDAVIT, predicated on looking for classified docs, nothing more than a criminal fishing expedition in search of a crime to try and stop your political opponent who is annihilating you in every way possible way.

Must be a low point for the Biden crime family and regime accomplishments and a huge source of humiliation for Biden and his now fed felon indicted crack head junkie extraordinaire. The deep state including the doddering fool Biden are so fearful of Trump winning the 2024 election they will do anything and say anything. This IS a failing strategy as anyone with a functioning brain can see, but go read the polls and see how just unpopular Biden truly is. My guess he gets shown the door after the August DNC since they changed the rules there on selecting candidates so now no vote or primary is needed. Good bye Joe...hello ....Kamala?

Affidavit for what? The initial search warrant? If so, the FBI knew at the time that Trump had classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, but not how many.

 

If you are talking about trial affidavits, Jack Smith has Trump stone cold guilty, no fishing there.

Getting back to the January 6 case, Trump is claiming absolute immunity as President. Jack Smith is taking that claim to the Supreme Court.

 

IF the Supremes rule that presidents have absolute immunity for acts commited whike in office, then Joe Biden can go to their homes, shoot them, and then appoint new justices.

On 12/8/2023 at 10:50 AM, illisdean said:

Why such an attitude?

More to life than your personal little biden luvin echo chamber.

Besides, you attack me AND my message since I destroy your lame narratives each and every time. You can't keep up, try getting something factual and relevant to say instead of nothing-ness.

 

Recognizing a fool is a bold step toward saving you an argument with such people and walking away.

• Fools have a fixed mindset
• They always bring up stupid logic to support their theory
• Despite what you mention or say, they will always try to bring you down to their playing field
• They believe their ways to be correct, and they are the only ways that will work for anyone
• They are never open to new ideas

46 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Recognizing a fool is a bold step toward saving you an argument with such people and walking away.

• Fools have a fixed mindset
• They always bring up stupid logic to support their theory
• Despite what you mention or say, they will always try to bring you down to their playing field
• They believe their ways to be correct, and they are the only ways that will work for anyone
• They are never open to new ideas

Since this topic is about the classified documents trial, what do you think will be Trump's defense?

51 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Recognizing a fool is a bold step toward saving you an argument with such people and walking away.

• Fools have a fixed mindset
• They always bring up stupid logic to support their theory
• Despite what you mention or say, they will always try to bring you down to their playing field
• They believe their ways to be correct, and they are the only ways that will work for anyone
• They are never open to new ideas

Projecting much?lol 

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Since this topic is about the classified documents trial, what do you think will be Trump's defense?

There isn’t any he’s guilty anyone else would have been locked up long ago or worse

Is there anyone here who believes Trump's lie that the PRA allows a president to take government records when he leaves office?

Edited December 12, 20232 yr by Danderman123

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Is there anyobe here who believes Trump's lie that the PRA allows a president to take government records when he leaves office?

 

Is there anyone here who believes that this trial is about the PRA? Maybe I'm wrong but I think the charges are not related to the PRA.

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Is there anyone here who believes that this trial is about the PRA? Maybe I'm wrong but I think the charges are not related to the PRA.

Trump offers the defense that the PRA allows him to possess whatever records he wants.

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump offers the defense that the PRA allows him to possess whatever records he wants.

 

Yes, I get that but do the indictments charge violations of the PRA? I thought not.

37 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yes, I get that but do the indictments charge violations of the PRA? I thought not.

No. The indictments are silent on the PRA.

 

It's Trump's claim that the PRA absolves him from holding onto classified documents. And yes, some low information posters here believe him.

Edited December 12, 20232 yr by Danderman123

If there's any fire with this smoking gun, Trump's going to jail real soon now.

 

Ex-FBI official raises specter missing intel file under Trump was handed to Russia

 

'We've got to know what happened with this binder, and more importantly, whether this was a mere accident, or whether the intention was to hand it to Russia to expose U.S. intel sources and methods against Russia,"

 

https://www.rawstory.com/russian-intel-file-trump/

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

If there's any fire with this smoking gun, Trump's going to jail real soon now.

 

Ex-FBI official raises specter missing intel file under Trump was handed to Russia

 

'We've got to know what happened with this binder, and more importantly, whether this was a mere accident, or whether the intention was to hand it to Russia to expose U.S. intel sources and methods against Russia,"

 

https://www.rawstory.com/russian-intel-file-trump/

If the FBI knew what happened to the folder, they would have indicted someone by now.

 

The folder seems to have disappeared. Probably whoever had it on January 20, 2021 burned it.

On 12/8/2023 at 2:17 PM, illisdean said:

Go read the AFFIDAVIT, predicated on looking for classified docs, nothing more than a criminal fishing expedition in search of a crime to try and stop your political opponent who is annihilating you in every way possible way.

Must be a low point for the Biden crime family and regime accomplishments and a huge source of humiliation for Biden and his now fed felon indicted crack head junkie extraordinaire. The deep state including the doddering fool Biden are so fearful of Trump winning the 2024 election they will do anything and say anything. This IS a failing strategy as anyone with a functioning brain can see, but go read the polls and see how just unpopular Biden truly is. My guess he gets shown the door after the August DNC since they changed the rules there on selecting candidates so now no vote or primary is needed. Good bye Joe...hello ....Kamala?

There are hints from Jack Smith that Trump may have sold nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary.

 

If that were proven in court, would that impact your support of Trump?

 

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

There are hints from Jack Smith that Trump may have sold nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary.

 

If that were proven in court, would that impact your support of Trump?

 

 

  Why doesn't Jack Smith come out and make the claim out right ?

Why doesn't he accuse Trump of selling Nuclear secrets ?

Why is he just hinting at the allegation ?

18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Why doesn't Jack Smith come out and make the claim out right ?

Why doesn't he accuse Trump of selling Nuclear secrets ?

Why is he just hinting at the allegation ?

Because he is fighting in court, Trump is fighting in the public domain.

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Because he is fighting in court, Trump is fighting in the public domain.

 

 Smith is fighting in Court ?

I doubt that Smith will win a Court case if he just hints at something , he will have to show proof of his allegations