Joint Bank Acct For Retirement Visa?

[susanstar]

Here are three questions to which I have not been able to find the answers, though I have searched and cruised through previous posts.

Appreciate any help from anyone who has "been there"

1. In considering the 800,000 baht requirement, will they accept a joint Thai/farang bank account for all or part of this amount? ( That is a joint bank account with either party being able to deposit and withdraw)

2. Will they consider investments in something like the Aberdeen fund?( stocks and bonds I think, international investment in part, held in baht of course)

3. What would be the exact time frame involved in moving from a Non-B visa with a work permit into a retirement visa (AO?) Has anyone done this? Do I just walk into the Immigration office when one is about to expire with my bank/income statements/ embassy notarization/ health cert in hand and make the switch? ( Knowing that TIT I doubt it would be that easy. . probably wishful thinking on my part.)

[lopburi3]

1. Believe that would have to be cleared with the office involved. I have a joint account but meet the 65k method so bank account is not questioned and they have made no mention of it being a joint account - I previously used the same account for support Thai wife without a problem. It would not be allowed if not your spouse, for sure.

2. Again it will be up to the office - people have used fixed accounts but do not believe an investment (where money is not solvent) would be allowed.

3. You submit paperwork and depart with the extension of stay. Very easy. Obviously it has to be done after you stop working and it is an extension of stay (not an O-A visa which you would get from a home country Consulate for retirement)

[tomallison]

I reply with my experience concerning 1. only.

In the past, for a retirement extension, I have shown the 800k plus in a joint account with a non spouse Thai. I have recently been advised at my local Imm office that this will continue to be okay.

As Lop says, check with your local immigration office/officer concerned.

[lopburi3]

I reply with my experience concerning 1. only.

In the past, for a retirement extension, I have shown the 800k plus in a joint account with a non spouse Thai. I have recently been advised at my local Imm office that this will continue to be okay.

As Lop says, check with your local immigration office/officer concerned.

Not trying to obtain details you don't want to say but does the second account holder have a connection to you? The fact that one is Thai would rule out the concern that two farangs are using one account so might be usable, as it appears to be in this case.

[coventry]

When I first went for my 1 year retirement visa I had a joint bank account with my G/F (now my wife). We, or I had, 800,000Baht in the account but was refused a visa as I was informed it had to be in my name only. If we were married they would have accepted it. Only way they would give me a 12 month visa was if I had 1,600,000 Baht in the bank, double. They see a joint bank account as being half/half, if not married. I had to travel 1 hour back to my bank, change my account to a single account and then go back to immigration where the visa was then granted.

Edited July 18, 2007 by coventry

[KhunDennis]

When I renewed my retirement visa last time in Chiang Mai, they would not accept a joint bank account , with me and my wife of fourteen years period.

It caused me extra trips to the bank and long drives to Chiang Mai, and did not set to well with my wife either. A real pain in the arss.

It is pretty normal for married people to have a joint bank account, and it is just plain wrong of them putting their noses into such matters, at least in my thinking.

[JimGant]

When I renewed my retirement visa last time in Chiang Mai, they would not accept a joint bank account , with me and my wife of fourteen years period.

I wonder if this was officer -- or office -- specific.....

The following was reported last month from the Krabi office:

Krabi Rules

3.2 Have not less than 800,000 baht deposited in any Thai bank account (savings or fixed-term account) for not less than three months before the application date. Account name must be only in the applicant’s name or may be a joint account in the name of the applicant and his/her registered married spouse only.

If the account has the spouse’s name, applicant must provide a copy of the marriage license.

Is the autonomy shown by each Immigration Office by design -- or just incompetence?

[KhunDennis]

When each immigration office makes up their own rules , rather than following a standard policy set down by the central powers, it just makes a chaotic situation.

They should be enforcing the policy set by the Thai government, not making the policy as they see fit. Whether this is by design or incompetence the result is the same, it makes these official Thai government offices, look very incompetent and unprofessional to say the least.

How hard can it be for the immigration dept. to police itself and be sure they set down a clear set of rules to follow? It is not a very big country, so it would not be too hard to get all the supervises together for a meeting , just to be sure they are all on the same page.

If it is by design, just to keep things confusing, shame on them.

[tomallison]

I reply with my experience concerning 1. only.

In the past, for a retirement extension, I have shown the 800k plus in a joint account with a non spouse Thai. I have recently been advised at my local Imm office that this will continue to be okay.

As Lop says, check with your local immigration office/officer concerned.

Not trying to obtain details you don't want to say but does the second account holder have a connection to you? The fact that one is Thai would rule out the concern that two farangs are using one account so might be usable, as it appears to be in this case.

The second account holder is my partner, and owner of the property in which we live.

My partners name is only there purely as a 'safety net' for the funds, should anything happen to me.

I am the sole operator of the account. All payments in, and withdrawals are carried out by myself only. No monkey business intended, or carried out.

[lopburi3]

I suspect Immigration knows this, from address or asking, and thus allowed it as a special case. In most cases they do not seem to accept a joint account if not a spouse so people should be aware of that. Thanks for the follow up.

[JimGant]

They should be enforcing the policy set by the Thai government

So, was the policy put forth by Krabi (link above) "policy set by the Thai government" or policy as interpreted/defined/created by Krabi?

In most cases they do not seem to accept a joint account if not a spouse

And even if a spouse, some offices or officers won't accept a joing account -- at least in Chiang Mai.

Hmmmm.

[ProThaiExpat]

I was told a joint account with anyone was not acceptable as a qualifying bank account for the 800K Baht route by Chiang Mai immigration five years ago and just accepted it.

It makes sense if you look at it from the point of view that the joint funds are not truly within your sole control and could vanish without you knowing about it at the time and then you would be in Thailand without funds to live, as far as immigrations is concerned.

Yes, if it is one of those accounts where two signatures is required to withdraw, the funds wouldn't disappear without you knowing about it but it could be frozen and unavailable to you for living purposes by an uncooperative joint holder.

Edited July 20, 2007 by ProThaiExpat

[JimGant]

It makes sense if you look at it from the point of view that the joint funds are not truly within your sole control and could vanish without you knowing about it at the time and then you would be in Thailand without funds to live, as far as immigrations is concerned.

Most countries' laws regarding married couples are accomodating towards this institution. Thailand is no exception, as shown when a non-Thai married couple, retirement eligible, is allowed an extension of stay based on a single sum of 800k baht, not 800k each. Presumably a joint account by such a couple, with at least 800k in it, would be allowable since the bottom line of '800k total for both' is satisfied (yeah, ok, this is Thailand, and the individual steps each must take for his and her extensions might run afoul of the joint account paradox).

So, based on the above, what's the difference when a retirement-eligible farang with a Thai wife wants to extend based on a joint account with only 800k baht in it? Nothing, as far as I can see. (Hello, CM Immigration..............)

And, once again, I sure wonder if the Krabi instructions (shown earlier) are local laws -- or do they reflect instructions from Bangkok(?). And if the latter, was there a robbery of the BKK-CNX mail coach I didn't read about........

[ProThaiExpat]

JimGant: You make a very good point. I was sounding off regarding my experience which is a single man under Thai law and what applies to them. If I didn't so make a distinction between married and unmarried joint account holders, I should have. Thanks for the clarification.

[KhunDennis]

When I renewed my visa at Chiang Mai last time, and he told me my wife could not be on the account, I found it to be insulting to my wife. I bit my tung and complied with the orders, I always am cordial and respectful when dealing with Thai officials even when I think they don't deserve it, but he tested me that time.

We lived in the US for ten years, and now in Thailand for five years, and have followed the letter of the law at all times, and would not be afraid of any scrutiny they would care to give.

I have to renew my retirement visa next Oct again, and this time am going to ask some questions, and want some answers. I got the visa with a joint acct. and have renewed it with a joint acct. before, so what is the problem?

It seems like they make you feel guilty of something and then want you to jump through hoops to prove you are not. After enough years of this, I find it is wearing down my good humor.

[susanstar]

Thanks everyone for the replies. The discussion is very interesting and it seems to come down to the decision of the local immigration officer handling the case. It is great to get some perspective from those of you who have been there. Thanks again

[luckyluke]

Anybody any experience with the joint account ("farang" and thai wife)at the Jomtien/Pattaya immigration office?

[Capealava]

I am a bit confused. You have to put 800,000 baht into a thai bank acct. 3 months before you apply Right?? After you are given the retirement visa are you allowed to take money out of the acct for yearly expenses.??

[luckyluke]

I am a bit confused. You have to put 800,000 baht into a thai bank acct. 3 months before you apply Right?? After you are given the retirement visa are you allowed to take money out of the acct for yearly expenses.??

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, as long as 3 months prior to your next apply there is again 800.000 thb on your account.

[Martin]

There seems to be a big cultural difference at work here.

We Westerners have been brought up to believe in there being a set of rules laid down, and that these rules will be absolutely unambiguous. So, in the West, two different officers will give exactly the same ruling in the same circumstances.

We sum this up in the Western phrase: "The letter of the law".

But Thai thinking doesn't seem to go like that. I have been told that there are some circumstances in which three different officers may hold, quite validly, three different views as to what they may or should ask for, and still be within the ambiguous wording that they are given to work with.

For years, I renewed on the "supporting Thai wife" lines and presented our joint account. Then one year, at Nong Khai, I was refused "as we have a new boss who says we have to make sure it is a single-name account". Fortunately, at that moment, the new boss came through the application area. She listened to the circumstances, looked at us, and said it was OK.

It is hard for us Westerners to accept that this hierarchical society doesn't hold us and the officer "equal under the law", and set the rules unambiguously, so I commiserate with 'Khun Dennis', but advise against arguing the toss next time, as he says he intends to.

[KhunDennis]

That was an interesting post Martin, you may have a valid point there. Those cultural differences butting heads again.

I still plan to ask some questions , though in a friendly and polite way.

[JimGant]

I still plan to ask some questions , though in a friendly and polite way.

Would be nice to know the official Bangkok position on joint accounts. Sunbelt? (Although showing CM Immigration that they're at odds with the official position might be akin to telling the Japanese commandant that Geneva says officers don't work... )

[karen fuller]

It makes sense if you look at it from the point of view that the joint funds are not truly within your sole control and could vanish without you knowing about it at the time and then you would be in Thailand without funds to live, as far as immigrations is concerned.

Most countries' laws regarding married couples are accomodating towards this institution. Thailand is no exception, as shown when a non-Thai married couple, retirement eligible, is allowed an extension of stay based on a single sum of 800k baht, not 800k each. Presumably a joint account by such a couple, with at least 800k in it, would be allowable since the bottom line of '800k total for both' is satisfied (yeah, ok, this is Thailand, and the individual steps each must take for his and her extensions might run afoul of the joint account paradox).

So, based on the above, what's the difference when a retirement-eligible farang with a Thai wife wants to extend based on a joint account with only 800k baht in it? Nothing, as far as I can see. (Hello, CM Immigration..............)

And, once again, I sure wonder if the Krabi instructions (shown earlier) are local laws -- or do they reflect instructions from Bangkok(?). And if the latter, was there a robbery of the BKK-CNX mail coach I didn't read about........

My husband and I are both British and over 50 and when applying to Samui Imm for Retirement visa last year were told must have single name account only and must both have 800,000 baht in Thai bank account. We had a joint account of some years standing at the time with Siam Commercial. We changed this to my single name and I got my first retirement extension of stay last Oct but my husband remains on a one year mutiple entry Non imm O (which he had to fly back to England to get by post from Hull last nov. Tired of single entry tourist from penang!)

We were married at the local Ampur in Koh Phangan 3 and a half years ago.

Is it just Samui Immigration?

[lopburi3]

He should be using para 7.19 of National Police Order 606/2006 to extend his stay as member of family allowed to stay under 7.21 (you). There is no bank account required.

[thaireg]

The big difficulty with all of this is that we don't know how to prepare ourselves for our visa applications.

I applied for an extension for retirement earlier this year at Chiang Mai and was not allowed to present a joint account although I had used it previously.

In May, my friend applied at Chiang Mai to the same officer and a joint account was accepted.

In June another friend asked the same officer if he could present a joint account, showed him the book and was told it was OK, but when he applied a week later the same officer said it had to be a single account.

In all cases the joint account was with a Thai spouse of long standing and had enough funds to satisfy the conditions, but not enough to be double the amount needed.

With the three month rule in force it will not be possible just to switch the money from one account to another if the first account is rejected.

I accept that I am a guest living in a foreign country and I will follow the rules, but I do like to know what the rules are.

Edited July 23, 2007 by thaireg

[Kaojai]

There seems to be a big cultural difference at work here.

We Westerners have been brought up to believe in there being a set of rules laid down, and that these rules will be absolutely unambiguous. So, in the West, two different officers will give exactly the same ruling in the same circumstances.

We sum this up in the Western phrase: "The letter of the law".

I assume this was meant to be facetious.

If interpretation of the law and its application were unambiguous, lawyers arguing points of law would be out of business, the US Supreme Court would not have to interpret Constitutional implications for inter-state and state vs federal relations, Dick Cheney couldn't evade calls for documents under subpoena from Congress, all the analysts debating Immigrations laws in the US or issues involving inter-country relations in the EU would have nothing to discuss ad nauseum on TV, etc. etc.

Try applying for a visa to the US or UK for a Thai national who fulfils all the paper requirements and watch the different consular officers go to work applying their discretion according to their mood of the day.

[tonybuxton2]

Here are three questions to which I have not been able to find the answers, though I have searched and cruised through previous posts.

Appreciate any help from anyone who has "been there"

1. In considering the 800,000 baht requirement, will they accept a joint Thai/farang bank account for all or part of this amount? ( That is a joint bank account with either party being able to deposit and withdraw)

2. Will they consider investments in something like the Aberdeen fund?( stocks and bonds I think, international investment in part, held in baht of course)

3. What would be the exact time frame involved in moving from a Non-B visa with a work permit into a retirement visa (AO?) Has anyone done this? Do I just walk into the Immigration office when one is about to expire with my bank/income statements/ embassy notarization/ health cert in hand and make the switch? ( Knowing that TIT I doubt it would be that easy. . probably wishful thinking on my part.)

1/.You cannot have a joint account if you wife is Thai. The whole amount must be in the farangs name. However if you are married to a Thai I think you need only Bt400,000 in your account? However if the account is in your name, you can arrange with you bank that she can draw on your account.

2/. I do not think so.

3/.Yes very easy. A friend of mine did just that in Hua Hin.

[Lite Beer]

Here are three questions to which I have not been able to find the answers, though I have searched and cruised through previous posts.

Appreciate any help from anyone who has "been there"

1. In considering the 800,000 baht requirement, will they accept a joint Thai/farang bank account for all or part of this amount? ( That is a joint bank account with either party being able to deposit and withdraw)

2. Will they consider investments in something like the Aberdeen fund?( stocks and bonds I think, international investment in part, held in baht of course)

3. What would be the exact time frame involved in moving from a Non-B visa with a work permit into a retirement visa (AO?) Has anyone done this? Do I just walk into the Immigration office when one is about to expire with my bank/income statements/ embassy notarization/ health cert in hand and make the switch? ( Knowing that TIT I doubt it would be that easy. . probably wishful thinking on my part.)

1/.You cannot have a joint account if you wife is Thai. The whole amount must be in the farangs name. However if you are married to a Thai I think you need only Bt400,000 in your account? However if the account is in your name, you can arrange with you bank that she can draw on your account.

2/. I do not think so.

3/.Yes very easy. A friend of mine did just that in Hua Hin.

If you are married to a Thai to a you will need 800,000 in the bank for retirement. Or a monthly income of 40,000 Baht. if you are applying based on marriage.

[JimGant]

3.2 Have not less than 800,000 baht deposited in any Thai bank account (savings or fixed-term account) for not less than three months before the application date. Account name must be only in the applicant's name or may be a joint account in the name of the applicant and his/her registered married spouse only.

This quote was shown on this forum earlier, attributable to the Krabi Immigation Office. The question was raised -- was this local -- or national -- dictate? No one seemed to know.

Yesterday, the exact same paragraph number and quote was submitted on this forum, but this time attributable to the Phuket Immigration Office.

So, joint accounts by married couples are allowable per guidance from big daddy Immigration.

Which is not very helpful for those denied married joint accounts by CM and Pattaya Immigration.

So much for national dictate.