Generalizations About Those Who Generalize...

[rafval]

I agree, prehaps you can generalize, but not about 60 million people on the basis of your experience with one lady, another great one is that all thais want to get rid of all farang, well theres some truth in that, many thais do want to get rid of the ones that obviously dont like thais or thailand as they arent nice to be around, as a farang I would like it if they left too, but for the rest of us most thais like us, in general, based on my dealings with a few hundred out of many millions

[qwertz]

After skimming through this thread (too much cut and paste for my old eyes to take all in) I notice one oft expressed and demeaning generalisation hasn't yet cropped up - ageism.

I.e. a contemptuous view of old people and the attendant discrimination.

Okay it's not specifically racist, the main subject here, or even specific to Thailand but it's a sweeping generalisation all the same.

As I can only assume it is propagated among younger people, I can only comment that when they're old they'll find it as impossible to change their condition as to change their race or creed.

[PeaceBlondie]

Last time I checked, all water was wet and all boiling water was hot. But maybe some water is dry, and 100 degrees Celsius wouldn't be hot in a nuclear explosion. Some generalizations work. We should qualify them, "Most citizens of Thailand are Asians with Siamese heritage, but some are African or American." But we'd also need to define African and American.

I think what bowman is incensed about (other than the avatar which is being taken care of, if that was part of his complaint) is negative stereotypes of Thai citizens (the Siamese citizens, generally, more or less) by the farang (the foreigners with European ancestry who are the farang who complain about the Thais), and bowman is right.

Yes, political correctness is hardly universal, and racism is not completely dead in modern Thailand among various people at various strata of Thai society. Generalizations, most of the time, generally, usually, don't work perfectly. Still, it is difficult to say "Generally, perhaps, based upon my direct observation in Thailand in the last XX years, it would seem to appear that possibly many restaurant waitstaff have difficulties taking food orders from foreigners of apparent European ancestry who are speaking the local dialect fluently." Whew.

[mellow1]

This forum is about Thailand.Expats discuss things about Thailand.They many times generalize character traits of Thai people,or events which happen in Thailand,and would seem odd in their home country.Therefore they come to this forum to discuss Thai stuff.Many subjects discussed may not be "happy" topics.If they were, many of you would soon get bored.Thai and Thailand are repetitious words on the forum.So when discussing negative issues about Thailand or Thai people, it seems that they are Thai bashing, or grouping all Thais together in portraying a particular character trait.

A thai person on the forum would of course be taken a little aback, by some of the generalizations.I am many times taken a little aback about generalizations of Americans.I many times wonder how one can generalize about a country, which includes members of every ethnic group found on earth,people who are also indoctrinated with their particular ethnic intricacies,and norms.But I see it, or hear it all the time.I hope,that I don't sound like I'm generalizing.

[howtoescape]

Every single person i know that has been to Thailand generalises Thais as being fun, friendly people. Now this surely cant be true of the entire race, so if it is accepted practice and ok to generalise in a positive light, then it is innevitable that people wil generalise in a negative fashion.

[jbowman1993]

Thanks for all the good comments! Looks like most people are on the same page, which is good to see! (is that a generalization? lol)

[WaiWai]

Just a few thoughts about culture that may offer other ways of thinking about culture & generalisations :

When we do such studies we need to keep in mind that culture is a shared pattern of beliefs, attitudes, norms, role perceptions, and values. For example, if we find that a particular person likes a particular painting that is not culture. But if we find that many members of a society respect a particular set of colors and shapes (say, a flag) that is culture.

...

Subcultures emerge because people share other elements, such as gender, physical type, neighborhood, occupation, standard of living, resources, climates, and so on. For example, lawyers all over world share some elements of subjective culture. Japanese lawyers have a subculture that differs from other lawyers as well as general Japanese culture. A nation consists of thousands of cultures, but many of these cultures have common elements.

...

... all over the world people associate categories with evaluation (good, beautiful, moral), potency (strong, heavy, large), and activity (fast, alive, noisy). Since these associations occur universally they are called etic. The term etic refers to a quality that is universal. But there are also emic, i.e., culture specific, associations. When we compare cultures we need to use etic constructs, but when we describe cultures we need to use emic constructs. A metaphor may help: If we compare apples and oranges we can use etic elements like weight, size, thickness of skin, price and the like. But obviously one does not learn much about such fruit with this kind of information. One needs to learn about apple flavor and orange flavor, apple texture and orange texture and the like. These are emic qualities. So, when we compare fruit we can do it with the etic qualities, e.g., say that "apples are more expensive than oranges today," but when we want to do a good job of describing the fruit we need to also use the emic qualities.

We can learn a good deal about a culture by examining its emic associations. For instance, some work has indicated that in South Korea "democracy" and "socialism" are strongly associated, but that is not the case in the USA. That tells us something about the political culture of South Korea.

...

An association of great interest is a stereotype. It links a category of people to some attributes. For example, "Americans are hardworking" is a stereotype. Stereotypes have a valid core, but are largely invalid. Are all the Americans you know hardworking? How about the homeless, those who spend most of their time in the park, those who spend a lot of time playing games?

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~culture/triandis1.htm

[Dustoff]

Just a few thoughts about culture that may offer other ways of thinking about culture & generalisations :

An excellent post but, like your previous one, a bit lengthy and I suspect that many on these forums will not take the time to read/understand it.

Keep it simple, such as:

Peeple who voice negativ generalizations iz stoopid..

[WaiWai]

Just a few thoughts about culture that may offer other ways of thinking about culture & generalisations :

An excellent post but, like your previous one, a bit lengthy and I suspect that many on these forums will not take the time to read/understand it.

Keep it simple, such as:

Peeple who voice negativ generalizations iz stoopid..

Not negatively overgeneralizing your fellow forumites, I hope , Dustoff - after all, you evidently bothered to read it.

I just assume people will skip over anything they're not interested in reading, as I do.

The essay I posted is longish (sorry, Gwertz and others), but it's about as short a guide to another culture you could get without being simplistic. I found it very helpful when I first read it here so, while I did hesitate, I decided to re-post it in this thread.

Edited July 18, 2007 by WaiWai

[canadiangirl]

The problem isn't with generalisations -- everyone makes them, and let's face it, cultures aren't all the same. But culture is like the family of family; does every kid in the same family grow up to be exactly the same person? No. Every person receives the influence of culture and family differently, so while on average a given culture might be more intellectual/selfish/hardworking, whatever, it doesn't necessarily tell you much about the person sitting in front of you.

What bugs me is drawing faulty, disparaging extrapolations based on one or two people that upset the poster, a la "Thai women are selfish" or "Thai male wasters". While I fully understand that a little bit of venting is a way to deal with culture shock in LOS, if I heard immigrants/visitors to Canada saying things like "Canadian male wasters, should we have them forcefully drafted?" -- about Canadian citizens in Canada, I would suggest we deport those immigrants back to wherever the f* they came from.

As for Thai golddiggers, I am eternally surprised at the fact that some posters don't seem to realize that in the real world, 20 year-old hotties usually want to date other 20 year-old hotties. If you're not a 20-year old hottie, then you better have something else to offer her -- and given some of the posts I see here, in most cases, I wouldn't count on it being your stellar personality.

[qwertz]

The trouble with 20 year old hotties, CG, is that they don't generally have any readies.

So they have to play both ends if they want both benefits.

*sigh* I'm glad I'm not a hottie; what a life.

[lannarebirth]

I think generalization is a preferred way to begin a topic. It is up to readers/respondants to move to the specific from the general through discourse with the OP and others.

edit: I agree with canuckamuck that the generalization should be stated as such.

Edited July 18, 2007 by lannarebirth

[canuckamuck]

I think generalization is a preferred way to begin a topic. It is up to readers/respondants to move to the specific from the general through discourse with the OP and others.

definitely

[jbowman1993]

The trouble with 20 year old hotties, CG, is that they don't generally have any readies.

So they have to play both ends if they want both benefits.

*sigh* I'm glad I'm not a hottie; what a life.

Could someone give me a translation of what this word means in this instance? I've never come across it, in this context, in my life.

[meemiathai]

I'm Thai, and honestly sometimes those threads do rub me the wrong way.

However, I know full well what and who they're talking about.

Take the selfish Thai girls for example. What part of Thai girls attract "farang" in the first place? If they turn out to be selfish or whatever, then hel_l live with it. If you can't stand her, then go ahead and break up with her. The truth of the matter is I've seen many farangs complaing about how Thai girls are gold digger, then they just went ahead and forgot that it's them that lure those Thai girls with money.

Those Thai girls mostly come from impoverish parts of Thailand, and have never been "comfortable" before. If you spoil them at the beginning, then you'd have to keeping doing it.

Seriously guys.

Go after Thai girls who are well off, then you might see a change in personality.

You are not saying that all poor people are gold digger, are you?

Rich thai girls? No, khop khun kup.

[cdnvic]

I think what he's saying is to stop using economic advantage as a selling point to women, and you will eliminate many of the "gold diggers".

[qwertz]

The trouble with 20 year old hotties, CG, is that they don't generally have any readies.

So they have to play both ends if they want both benefits.

*sigh* I'm glad I'm not a hottie; what a life.

Could someone give me a translation of what this word means in this instance? I've never come across it, in this context, in my life.

Sorr, JB, it's slang for ready money.

[jbowman1993]

Thanks Q, Now I know

You are the shizzle my izzle