Cost Of Living

[Joe Walshe]

Plan to retire to Village and/or farm in Chumphae, Khon Kaen in 10 - 15 years. I realise that's along way off, but I would love to hear from people living in Esarn villages and what they find is an adequate income. some more details about myself below;

Will be retiring with my Thai wife.

Kids will stay in Europe.

already own house in village and house on farm.

Have small 40 rai farm with huge fish pond, 12 cattle, fruit trees and veg. patch.

Purchasing 200 rai of 3 year old Eucalyptus.

Irish Govt. pension should be 20,000 tp 40,000 THB per month

Savings by retirement should be 4-5 million baht. This does not allow for interest gained or inflation. That is while interest will increase amt. inflation should decrease it's worth. Pension from Govt. also likely to be increased in 10 -15 years.

I would greatly appreciate your opinions, comments and advice.

Joe

[Joost]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=131002

I think this is one of the most discussed subjects around here, although a horizon of 10-15 years is a bit odd in this case....

Probably not the answer you are looking for, but it depends on what you want to do after retirement. Do you want to visit your children 3 times a year? Then it doesnt seem sufficient to me. Are you not planning to go abroad at all? Dont want to drive a car? Or even maybe go really native without any luxury whatsoever? I think you may manage already.

Up to you what you want to do

[Joe Walshe]

Thank you for response.

I lived and worked in Thailand for 10 years approx. on and off.

I have a good idea what living on farm close to village will be like. We have motorbike and samlor and that will do me fine.

Happy to potter around farm.

No interest in travelling having travelled the world in my youth - hence not rich.

Kids more likely to visit us than visa versa.

Don't drink or smoke.

Can't even imagine what would need money for other than internet, satelite TV, occasional trips around Thailand.

Why am I even asking thje question? Because I have read many threads on TV and not found much info. from people happily living in retiement with adequate income.

[Nomad97]

............ I lived and worked in Thailand for 10 years approx. on and off............................Can't even imagine what would need money for other than internet, satelite TV, occasional trips around Thailand.........................

As you have lived and worked in Thailand for the past 10 years you should already have a very good feel as to how much money you will need to cover your basic cost of living. Each person/family will need whatever they feel is right for them. That said, the Government has already set the minimum as more than 65,000 THB per month (800K per year) in order to qualify for a long-stay visa based on retirement. For me, less than 150,000 to 200,000 Thai baht a month would seriously curtail my quality of life in retirement. After all, I am only retired not dead!

[dereklev]

As previously said this subject has been done to death.....

You know Thailand so you know what things cost here.

If you want a basic lifestyle I am sure th 20-40k you have available will be enough.

However things like Health Insurance do not come cheap......

Who knows what the visa requirements will be in 10-15 months let alone years.

But right now the minimum you need to bring in a year for a Marriage visa is 400,000 Baht, in a lump sum and you have to leave it in the bank for 3 months prior to your application.

I like Nomad97 need 100k plus a month to live the lifestyle I want. If I was happy to stay in the village 24/7 then probably 35-40k would suffice....

[Totster]

But right now the minimum you need to bring in a year for a Marriage visa is 400,000 Baht, in a lump sum and you have to leave it in the bank for 3 months prior to your application.

Actually, this is incorrect. You can no longer extend the O visa based on marriage by using BT400,000 in the bank. It now has to be a combined earnings of BT40,000 per month.

This doesn't affect those who had previously extended using the bt400,000, they have been "grandfathered"

totster

[dereklev]

But right now the minimum you need to bring in a year for a Marriage visa is 400,000 Baht, in a lump sum and you have to leave it in the bank for 3 months prior to your application.

Actually, this is incorrect. You can no longer extend the O visa based on marriage by using BT400,000 in the bank. It now has to be a combined earnings of BT40,000 per month.

This doesn't affect those who had previously extended using the bt400,000, they have been "grandfathered"

totster

Quite right Totster.....

I should have pointed out that this option was no longer available.

OK, for a Retirement Visa you need, at todays rates, either 800,000 Baht in the bank or proof of income of 65k a month.

The OP would not meet income requirements and with his savings would find it hard to bring in the required amount for the Bank Deposit over a period of a few years.

That is at todays rates and his income and capital projections are based on 10-15 years hence.....

[Nomad97]

Joe, to be quite serious for a minute, I think your's and everyone's concern about retiring to Thailand is to have sufficient money in the bank or as income to meet the financial requirements for a long-stay visa. Over the past 10 years the financial requirements that individuals must have for either a long-stay visa based on marriage or retirement have changed / increased. Your stated, projected income in retirement is one pension from the Irish Government with a projected value of 20 to 40K THB per month. Your projected income in 10 to 15 years time would not meet the financial requirements of today for either a long-stay visa based on retirement or marriage (65K or 40K per month respectively). There is nothing to say that the current rates will remain the same and, in all probability, the financial limits will likely increase. In addition, the exchange rate is always subject to change and who knows what the exchange rate will be next year let alone in 15 years time.

Unfortunately, the Royal Thai Police Immigration Services do not recognise any assets you or your wife may own in Thailand when it comes to the annual visa extension stakes. It is strictly how much money you have in the bank or as income. Therefore, instead of spending some 4 million THB plus on 200 rai of land in your wife's name, (farang cannot own land), perhaps you would be better served investing the money to provide a higher external income in retirement in 10 to 15 years time. Just a thought.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Nomad97

[Joe Walshe]

Joe, to be quite serious for a minute, I think your's and everyone's concern about retiring to Thailand is to have sufficient money in the bank or as income to meet the financial requirements for a long-stay visa. Over the past 10 years the financial requirements that individuals must have for either a long-stay visa based on marriage or retirement have changed / increased. Your stated, projected income in retirement is one pension from the Irish Government with a projected value of 20 to 40K THB per month. Your projected income in 10 to 15 years time would not meet the financial requirements of today for either a long-stay visa based on retirement or marriage (65K or 40K per month respectively). There is nothing to say that the current rates will remain the same and, in all probability, the financial limits will likely increase. In addition, the exchange rate is always subject to change and who knows what the exchange rate will be next year let alone in 15 years time.

Unfortunately, the Royal Thai Police Immigration Services do not recognise any assets you or your wife may own in Thailand when it comes to the annual visa extension stakes. It is strictly how much money you have in the bank or as income. Therefore, instead of spending some 4 million THB plus on 200 rai of land in your wife's name, (farang cannot own land), perhaps you would be better served investing the money to provide a higher external income in retirement in 10 to 15 years time. Just a thought.

Thank you Nomad97. I had hoped that my wife's income from Eucalyptus when harvested from 200 rai in 3 years would count towards our combined income for visa purposes. We had considered selling the land thereafter to boost our bank balance. I understood that for retirement visa you need 800,000 baht in bank account for duration of your retirement. The same 800,000 could be in the bank or deposited to the bank yearly to satisfy immigration. I am hoping that 800,000 in bank will satisfy visa requirements (I realise this may change upwardly).

I realise this topic has been dealt with on TV many times but it is a serious subject and evryones situation is different. I for one would happily live on our farm, eat and read and pot about with the garden. Others plan to live in BKK or Pattaya and may do a lot of clubbing, drinking etc. I was hoping to get input from others in Isaan who have experienced the financial realities of living upcountry.

Thanks,

Joe

[Gary A]

Plan to retire to Village and/or farm in Chumphae, Khon Kaen in 10 - 15 years. I realise that's along way off, but I would love to hear from people living in Esarn villages and what they find is an adequate income. some more details about myself below;

Will be retiring with my Thai wife.

Kids will stay in Europe.

already own house in village and house on farm.

Have small 40 rai farm with huge fish pond, 12 cattle, fruit trees and veg. patch.

Purchasing 200 rai of 3 year old Eucalyptus.

Irish Govt. pension should be 20,000 tp 40,000 THB per month

Savings by retirement should be 4-5 million baht. This does not allow for interest gained or inflation. That is while interest will increase amt. inflation should decrease it's worth. Pension from Govt. also likely to be increased in 10 -15 years.

I would greatly appreciate your opinions, comments and advice.

Joe

Joe, who knows what the Thai government will require ten years from now? Why are you wasting our time asking questions? Now is now and even a few years from now things may change drastically. I really think you have dreams that may, and probably will never materialize. I have followed your threads and thought you were for real. I really didn't know you were just a kid with dreams.

[Joe Walshe]

Plan to retire to Village and/or farm in Chumphae, Khon Kaen in 10 - 15 years. I realise that's along way off, but I would love to hear from people living in Esarn villages and what they find is an adequate income. some more details about myself below;

Will be retiring with my Thai wife.

Kids will stay in Europe.

already own house in village and house on farm.

Have small 40 rai farm with huge fish pond, 12 cattle, fruit trees and veg. patch.

Purchasing 200 rai of 3 year old Eucalyptus.

Irish Govt. pension should be 20,000 tp 40,000 THB per month

Savings by retirement should be 4-5 million baht. This does not allow for interest gained or inflation. That is while interest will increase amt. inflation should decrease it's worth. Pension from Govt. also likely to be increased in 10 -15 years.

I would greatly appreciate your opinions, comments and advice.

Joe

Joe, who knows what the Thai government will require ten years from now? Why are you wasting our time asking questions? Now is now and even a few years from now things may change drastically. I really think you have dreams that may, and probably will never materialize. I have followed your threads and thought you were for real. I really didn't know you were just a kid with dreams.

You are of course right. 10 yeras is a long time in any country. The world was a very different place 10 years ago. In my original post, quoted below, I asked to hear from others living in Isaan villages and would like to hear how they get by. I added details about myself as I have noticed on other threads that people will ask for more info. prior to responding. My wife and I are thinking about our retirment and realise all our plans are subject to a myriad of changes likely to occur on planet earth between now and then. However, I enjoy a bit of dydreaming amnd do like to hear views from others. Didn't think my ramblings would cause upset.

I realise that's along way off, but I would love to hear from people living in Esarn villages and what they find is an adequate income

[thedi]

Hello Joe,

Here is some data for your day dreams:

I live in a village about 50km from Khon Kaen. Right now I am in Switzerland to earn some money, but I stay about 7 month/year in Thailand with my family which stays there all the time. I (58) have a wife (54), a daughter (13), a house and a 6 rai garden with two ponds. The garden is just for shadow and fun. No profit there.

We also have 20 some rai of rice fields which we let other people plant rice on. The agreement is, that we get 33% of the harvest, and they get the rest. Last year the harvest was so poor, that we didn't take our 33% and let them have it all. But even in a normal year, our 33% hardly cover our costs for fertilizer and what we help them here and there. In short: no profit there.

Our daughter goes to an expensive school now (250K/year).

We have a woman full time to help to look after the house: called a maid, but cooking some too and most importantly: she is there from morning to evening. She eats with us but goes home to sleep. We give her 2500 Baht/month plus help her when she needs some support (say another 15K/year).

We have a 'gardener' who waters some of the plants in the garden each morning (about 2 hours/day) and does this and that (whenever there is need for him) and who doubles a security guard at night (meaning he sleeps in a small apartment over the garage; and I mean sleeping). He gets 1500 Baht/month and eats with us and my wife buys cloths for him from time to time. Naturally there is some more money when the occasion calls for it (like new year), say another 15K/year.

My wife has sisters and brothers and they have kids and the kids go to schools and we usually pay for the school money. Because every body get older, this used to be more before and is now decreasing because the kids finish school. But it is still more than 50K/year. The parents of my wife died long time ago, we only support a sister (1500 Baht/month) who has no income and who's husband does not earn any money with rising chickens and cows. He also looks after our 4 cows, which my wife bought rather to help an other relative. I will praise the day when and if we sell them for the same price as we bought them. Let's hope that the cows will cover their costs one day...

For our own food we need just around 200 to 300 Baht/day. The expensive things are fruits, which I like to buy and are eaten mostly by the kids (friends of our daughter). I like to drink a beer a day. If we would buy more food in plastic bags instead of cooking huge pots full ourselves, 150 Baht/day would be enough - but we like to cook.

I have a big bike with a big thirst for gasoline at 30 Baht/liter. If somethings needs to be fixed with the bike, it costs a lot. Last time it was a battery for 5K Baht; next time it will be the clutch. I prefer to pay a bit more but insist in original parts. Lets say the bike needs about 20K/year - but maybe it is a bit more.

Whenever there is a celebration in the village, from wedding to burial, we get one of this cards with an invitation. It is an unalterable custom that the envelope must be returned with a bill in it. Being a farang with some standing, the bill can not be a twenty. This can add up: maybe 10K/year?

In the last years, our village build a new bot in the temple. Everybody helped. For us it was more than 50K - giving me and my wife a lot of good karma.

But most of the money I spend is for building this or that. I always have new ideas of what could be improved here and there. This is way above 300K/year. Sometime much more and sometime just a little more. It is my hobby and a lot of this money is spend to pay local people who do the actual work. This is also a reason why we are liked in the village: I am the biggest employer here. Usually I have between 5 to 10 people engaged for at least 6 month/year.

So what it boils down to is: I could eat and sleep with 10K/month without problems. But to live the way I like to, any additional money is welcome - no upper limit!

Thailand is a great place to spend money - but one of the worst places to earn money. So I would say you are on the right road: continue to earn as much as you can in farangland, and then come to Thailand and enjoy wasting it.

Nice dreams...

Thedi

[Joe Walshe]

Thanks Thedi. Sounds like you got a pretty good thing going there. We also considered spending time in Thailand say 3-6 months a year and then returning to Ireland to make money. That sounded good as we would have no visa / money problems and could relax more while there. I work as an Architect/builder and am reluctant to leave Ireland until this crazy property boom ends (soon).

I'm sure the locals in your village appreciate the income and convenience of working locally.

We will focus on making money in next few years and hopefully Thailand will remain an attractive place to retire to. Retiring in Ireland is not hugely attractive or indeed affordable.

[thedi]

The value we get for our money is a big reason to retire to Thailand.

But for me there are other reasons too: Switzerland is boring. It is one of the best places to earn money - and that's about all everybody does here. The climate is nothing for a relaxed live. Not only the weather, with 'the climate' I mean rather the way people live and interact with each others. This is a different kind of 'cold' - you can not measure it in centigrades.

My next stay in Thailand will be from mid-August until end of January 2008. Manchakiri is less than 100 km from Chumphae. If you happen to be in Chumphae in the same time, you may drop in at my place any time. There is always a cool beer ready for guests. Or I may take the opportunity for a ride with my bike up to Chumphae. After some time of speaking only Thai, I will enjoy to try to remember some English words.

Regards Thedi

[Joe Walshe]

That would be nice. I speak reasonable Thai but the level of converstaion is always going to be basic. I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos.

I won't be in Thailand till Christmas. But would be nice to meet for a chat.

I agree totally with your point about living in other countries. A rich man in London may have a much less happy life than a poor Farang in Thailand. I base this on my experiences in both places.

However, I do believe that if a person is not happy in one place it might be foolish to think that moving somewhere else is going to solve all their problems.

[sendbaht]

"However, I do believe that if a person is not happy in one place it might be foolish to think that moving somewhere else is going to solve all their problems."

That my son is a very wise statement! If you are a "kid" you are way behond your years. Keep dreaming, dreams do come true. I wish you happiness.

[thedi]

...I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos...

Hi Joe,

My experience is, that most farangs in Isarn are loner wolfes. When I go to Khon Kaen town into Lotus supermarked, I usually see other farags there. But when I try to greet, some turn away, others just say hello and are in a hurry to move on. Some even avoid contact by taking a turn behind some shelves. I got the impression, that many of them farangs would prefer to be the only farang in Isarn. To keep up this illusion, they avoid contact with other farangs.

I like to live in 'my' village with my family and the big family of my wife. Nothing wrong with that. But sometimes it would be nice to have some conversation with a farang. We come from a different society and have a different education and believe in different ethical principles stemming from a different culture.

I would like to stress the word 'different' - not 'better' or 'worth'. But it is different all right.

Right now I am in Switzerland with nothing but farangs around me - my wife does not like Switzerland and our daughter goes to school in Thailand. Now, after 6 weeks of farang-only contacts, I start to long for some Thai way of life and some Thai conversations. Same thing after two or more month in Isarn: I would like to speak some farang-talk from time to time.

This is the one thing that troubles me about retiring to Isarn: my fellow farangs. Will I have some regular intercourse with farangs? For me, it would be nice if there would be a sort of a social club of german speaking farangs, which meet maybe once a week. Maybe for a one day tour to a sight seeing place, or for a cultural event, even to attend a teaching of a famous monk or just to visit each others home and eat some specialty of the farang (or his wifes) cuisine. There are many things that I can not do with Thais, and which would be more fun in a small group: hiking, a tour by bicycle, discussing politics and so on...

Well, this is for the future, when I will retire. I have still two years to go until then. Time will tell.

Would be nice to meet you in Thailand next time.

Regards

Thedi

[jay-uk]

"Will I have some regular intercourse with farangs? For me, it would be nice"

Hey Thedi

I know what you mean but ......... you'll be having no INTERCOURSE with this farang i'm happily married thanks. Ha Ha

Jay

[thedi]

I know what you mean but ......... you'll be having no INTERCOURSE with this farang i'm happily married thanks. Ha Ha

Well, it's no secret: English is not my mother language

[Tilapia]

"Will I have some regular intercourse with farangs? For me, it would be nice"

Hey Thedi

I know what you mean but ......... you'll be having no INTERCOURSE with this farang i'm happily married thanks. Ha Ha

Jay

I knew there was something there dident add up....... Must be a German speaking thing

Thedi, if we ever go on a bike ride, then I will be driving behind you...Just in case

Tilapia.

[jay-uk]

Yep...they say you must read things carefully 'cause the devil is in the detail. He He..... only having fun with you Thedi.

Jay

[citizen33]

Khun Thedi is actually quite correct as far as traditional usage of this term goes, but I suppose we now live in less innocent times when it probably makes sense to stick 'social' in front of the 'I' word.

[tahaan]

I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos.

Hi, I've been living in Chumphae for the last few years. Have we met?

Your judgement seems a tad harsh. Care to elaborate?

[Joe Walshe]

I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos.

Hi, I've been living in Chumphae for the last few years. Have we met?

Your judgement seems a tad harsh. Care to elaborate?

I have no concrete evidence to suggest that the people I met were criminal or exceptionally weird. The people I met were in Chumphae briefly. They had found the love of their lives in Pattaya and were in town to meet their parents. One was about 55 with his 20+ girlfriend. I may have shown my prejudices by judging them too harshly - tatoos, shabbily dressed (shorts and T shirt over beer belly), rough manner, etc. Perhaps they were lovely peopel but I did not feel like spending time with them.

I do not believe we have ever met. When in Chumphae I spend time on farm or in village with occasional visit to market. Once when I lived in Sattahip (I worked in local hotel) I befriended one of the hotel chefs who then started visiting with constant stories about how he needed money for rent etc. and offering to sell me all kinds of stuff as well as wishing to borrow money. This and other experiences has made me cautious about befriending Farangs just because they are Farangs. I would not be too happy if an obnoxious Farang moved in close to me and visited everyday.

BTW my Mother in law tells me Lotus/Tesco are opening on the Chumphae Khon Kaen road just outside Chumphae. Don't know if that is good or bad.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Joe Walshe

[solo siam]

I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos.

Hi, I've been living in Chumphae for the last few years. Have we met?

Your judgement seems a tad harsh. Care to elaborate?

Near my wife's village as well, must say didn't exactly see many farangs around. Couldn't imagine living there full time, I was in bed asleep by 7pm every night in the village.

[tahaan]

I was just rising to the 'generalisation' bait covered in a recent thread.

Paying a short visit to the market here you probably wouldn't see many farang but there's actually quite a large community. Some are resident, many others have houses or roots and are planning to retire here eventually. Where I sit typing this, I can see the roofs of two German owned (financed) properties and one Swiss. The two 1 rai plots directly behind me are German and French and there are many other areas in town with a similar farang population density. I wouldn't choose to be mates with all the blokes I've met here but on the whole they seem decent types, here for the same reason as many of us on the forum. I do share Thedi's view however and have experienced the quick head turn to avoid eye contact many times. I feel they're smug g*ts, happy that their reasons for being here are fully legitimate but suspicious of other farang on their 'patch' although I maybe generalising.

I wouldn't say Chumphae can compete with the likes of lower Suk or Patong on the entertainment stakes but I've had some great times here. I guess you have to make do with what you got. You don't have to be asleep by 7. (in bed maybe) I've been disappointed by the 2am closing time a few times.

Yes, I've also heard the Lotus/Big C rumours. Apparently one of them has already bought land. It's part of the town's push to become a Jangwat, like the over sized tessabaan complete with large concrete owl...<deleted> is that?

[Joe Walshe]

When I'm in Chumphae I am happy enough during the day - reading in Hammock, cycling most evenings, chatting with the locals I meet while cycling through villages. Their is a short pleasant time between dusk and sun down when it's very pleasant to be out and about. After, sundown I'm typically bored out of my head and go to bed very early. When, we retire back to Chumphae or Chaiyaphum I'll need to figure out what to do in evenings. Can only read so much. I expect meeting up with a few Farangs to discuss how we would solve the worlds problems while playing cards or something could be noice.

[Thaddeus]

I used to crave Frarang company when I stayed in Chumphae only to find that the Farangs I met were criminal types or weirdos.

Hi, I've been living in Chumphae for the last few years. Have we met?

Your judgement seems a tad harsh. Care to elaborate?

I think that retired criminals and reforming weirdo's would have been a tad kinder

But just for good measure, let's throw in a higher percentage of normal people, who had normal jobs and normal needs....... myself, I'm an almost reformed weirdo, still working on it