Professionalism Of Thai Cockpit Crew Questioned After Bad Landing

[000]

You want to talk about problems. He used some extra power to power out as he slowed which is smart as he keeps the movement going on the aircraft. You want to see problems? You stop and let the gear sink into the ground which it would do with an aircraft of the weight of an airbus 300. Now the plane is stuck and will need a crane to get free. Sending a bus and stair truck out to a plane with one gear sinking to the ground is stress. Partly going off the highspeed and hitting a few taxi and exit lights is minor and getting stuck are two different things and one makes a good story where nothing has really happened other then a bit of dirt and some lights are damaged.

As for the crew freeing it. How do you think they freed it? Got out and shovel? No they powered it out and also did any of the passengers notice? No? So how stuck was it really?

You'll have to show me what the company policy is for soft-field landings in an Airbus.

Ask Air France about soft field landings and a Air bus in Toronto with their 340. If any of you have the Maintence logs or pictures to prove anything on this incident and Thai Air then please show me till then its all speculation and nothing more and some paper reporting it and making mountains out of mole hills.

Where is my whack a mole/shill hammer? I know I left it here somewhere ... let me see .... ah yes here is is

Rule number 1: when your facts don't add up, deflect deflect, deflect

I don't give a shiite about what Air France's manual says, because we are discussing Thai Air.

Stick with the topic and thread and try not to wander.

000

Yeah I would want to fly with you. If you can not relate and connect a previous comment on Air Bus and soft landings to Air France and their 340 crash in YYZ why are you even making quotes?

So connect your dots.. Passengers did not even notice a problem, Secret repairs where is your proof. A newspaper report ..Oh please...Stress on the air frame. You do the NDT work? Your a pilot if that what would you know about MAintence or the Thai Air MPM? Were you there? because enless you were the pilot in command on that landing and have facts based on proof you are guessing so you stick to facts please which no one has here. You want to question the Maintence that is fine but you could second guess alot of companies the the way they do things. And the biggest danger to passengers is a pilots ego lets see if you can get that under control.

Wandering again I see. No problem - you have just earned me adding you to the ignore list. Whether I read what you write or not it amounts to the same thing:

A big fat zero.

You add nothing to this discussion except static.

I'm tuning you out.

000

[Mid]

Passengers did not even notice a problem, Secret repairs where is your proof. A newspaper report

that would be the same report your quoting for your claim of passengers not noticing ...................................

can you say selective ??

[highdiver]

I have met to day lady from samui that was a survivior of the accident. unfortunately har brother has died.

she claims that they had no idea what was going on untill the plain actually crashed.

she is also represented by the lawyer that SBK has posted the story about. she told me that this lawyer belives that he has a solid case against Airbus and has supporting documentation.

[geriatrickid]

Ask Air France about soft field landings and a Air bus in Toronto with their 340. If any of you have the Maintence logs or pictures to prove anything on this incident and Thai Air then please show me till then its all speculation and nothing more and some paper reporting it and making mountains out of mole hills.

I understand your point and this is not to be critical, but I don't believe that the The Airbus incident at YYZ is comparable. Different circumstances. YYZ event was during landing and involved going off the end of the runway during critical weather event.

Here's the Pearson TSB report http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/2005/a...te_20051116.asp

Edited July 22, 2007 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

and the omission , to your post ?

ie the VP .

Valid observation .

The "VP" may have been misquoted or may have spoken inappropriately. Or he may not have been aware of the event and like people that can't accept that they might be wrong, became more obstinate and refused to admit the error. Or the VP may have been very junior. (Keep in mind that in large companies today, instead of giving remuneration, you get a title. The VP titles today are what supervisor titles were 20 years ago.)

Star Alliance airlines have operational risk managers (they look after the insurance of fleets & pax liability issues etc.) The RMs get a daily report of all incidents generated from field reports. (Sometimes it takes a couple days for the data to be compiled, but big events show up in the daily log fast.) The RM's usually report into legal affairs and/or the finance office. The VP that was commenting either was not part of the information chain, or if he was, didn't read his daily briefing or perhaps the info was not even in the chain at the time.

My personal view is that if the VP was clueless, he should have either shut up or the pilot should give him a b*tchslap to knock some common sense into him.

Whatever, the situation is, TG needs to muzzle this VP pronto.

[Minburi]

You want to talk about problems. He used some extra power to power out as he slowed which is smart as he keeps the movement going on the aircraft. You want to see problems? You stop and let the gear sink into the ground which it would do with an aircraft of the weight of an airbus 300. Now the plane is stuck and will need a crane to get free. Sending a bus and stair truck out to a plane with one gear sinking to the ground is stress. Partly going off the highspeed and hitting a few taxi and exit lights is minor and getting stuck are two different things and one makes a good story where nothing has really happened other then a bit of dirt and some lights are damaged.

As for the crew freeing it. How do you think they freed it? Got out and shovel? No they powered it out and also did any of the passengers notice? No? So how stuck was it really?

You'll have to show me what the company policy is for soft-field landings in an Airbus.

Ask Air France about soft field landings and a Air bus in Toronto with their 340. If any of you have the Maintence logs or pictures to prove anything on this incident and Thai Air then please show me till then its all speculation and nothing more and some paper reporting it and making mountains out of mole hills.

Where is my whack a mole/shill hammer? I know I left it here somewhere ... let me see .... ah yes here is is

Rule number 1: when your facts don't add up, deflect deflect, deflect

I don't give a shiite about what Air France's manual says, because we are discussing Thai Air.

Stick with the topic and thread and try not to wander.

000

Yeah I would want to fly with you. If you can not relate and connect a previous comment on Air Bus and soft landings to Air France and their 340 crash in YYZ why are you even making quotes?

So connect your dots.. Passengers did not even notice a problem, Secret repairs where is your proof. A newspaper report ..Oh please...Stress on the air frame. You do the NDT work? Your a pilot if that what would you know about MAintence or the Thai Air MPM? Were you there? because enless you were the pilot in command on that landing and have facts based on proof you are guessing so you stick to facts please which no one has here. You want to question the Maintence that is fine but you could second guess alot of companies the the way they do things. And the biggest danger to passengers is a pilots ego lets see if you can get that under control.

Wandering again I see. No problem - you have just earned me adding you to the ignore list. Whether I read what you write or not it amounts to the same thing:

A big fat zero.

You add nothing to this discussion except static.

I'm tuning you out.

000

Ego kills and you dislike the questions..tough.. I would dislike flying with you as I have the right to ask them. If its only static I am asking it should be simple to answer.. You want to ignore thats o.k but that just proves my point.

What a surprise you have no argumernt so your tuning me out with my query on Thai Air MPM and their AMO. Your the one avoiding and blowing smoke when I ask questions. Acting like you see and know all when you really know nothing as you are taking all your view from what a report in a paper. Have you even heard CVR tape or seen the data dump from the FDR..No

How do you know that the down time for the aircraft in question was due to the incident and was not related to procurement of parts for some other problem and the wait was for parts to come which happens all the time and till then Maintence had to sit and wait.

Yep I have seen your sort before.

[000]

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: Minburi.

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Thanks so much for your cogent thoughts. What you posted above is by far the most lucid and thoughtful of all your posts thus far. Congrats and keep it up.

000

[beechguy]

Based on that article, I don't see how anyone can make an accurate assesment of what really happened. I would be curious as to what was the actual damage to the aircraft.

As for the pilot, there have been several times where I have found damage during a post flight inspection, but the crew wasn't aware of any problems. Who knows what that pilot was aware of?

Anyway, I think the media has a habit of blowing things out of porportion when it comes to aviation issues. Way too much dramatic reporting!

[Minburi]

Based on that article, I don't see how anyone can make an accurate assesment of what really happened. I would be curious as to what was the actual damage to the aircraft.

As for the pilot, there have been several times where I have found damage during a post flight inspection, but the crew wasn't aware of any problems. Who knows what that pilot was aware of?

Anyway, I think the media has a habit of blowing things out of porportion when it comes to aviation issues. Way too much dramatic reporting!

A voice of reason

I can give an example of such. We had a bird strike on an aircraft here that put an airplane out of service 3 days as we waited for parts. It happed on landing and the crew did not even notice it and it was found on the walk around later.

A few things I would like to note. Have I seen Thai air maintence practices that I would question while flying TG. The answer is yes.

WHat I am questions more so is the reporting and is it complete or just overblown.

As for the Vp not knowing anything. Its not a surprise and I wonder how offen he even see`s a hanger floor.

[vermin on arrival]

As for the Vp not knowing anything. Its not a surprise and I wonder how offen he even see`s a hanger floor.

Yes, his behavior is not suprising, especially in Thailand, but should have he come out with such a categorical denunciation of the claim without knowing any of the facts? Is that the charachterisitc of a good exec?

Edited July 23, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[Minburi]

As for the Vp not knowing anything. Its not a surprise and I wonder how offen he even see`s a hanger floor.

Yes, his behavior is not suprising, especially in Thailand, but should have he come out with such a categorical denunciation of the claim without knowing any of the facts? Is that the charachterisitc of a good exec?

I keep thinking good exec and then Thailand then matching the 2 and just does not seem a good fit but I am sure their are many. I think a better reply would bw something P.C like we are looking into the incident and will have more information in the future or such but saying nothing happened and not admiting there was a problem was foolish IMHO.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Minburi

[sibeymai]

Here's how a professional crew responds to an incident.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/jetstar-...5042982638.html

[taxexile]

there is more about this here.

more on this

[sonnyJ]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

[Minburi]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

[Minburi]

there is more about this here.

more on this

In the pilots forum no one seems to it was that big a deal and very minor and more then likely a slow day for news.

[sonnyJ]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

She denied EVERYTHING.

Yes the airport, pilots, why won't YOU call them?

[cdnvic]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

She denied EVERYTHING.

Yes the airport, pilots, why won't YOU call them?

Because HE didn't call the wrong people and ask the wrong questions in the first place.

[Soju]

there is more about this here.

more on this

Interesting post on there about someone being advised now that it happened on landing and not while taxiing. If so it suddenly becomes a much bigger deal I would think. Not going to comment further on this right now until more details come out, but if it does turn out that the VP was lying or speaking out when he shouldn't due to lack of knowledge, he should be fired immediately. But given the track record of current TG top management I somehow think they will once again fail miserably if this is the case. Whatever the case I think we need to wait and see what develops.

[sonnyJ]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

She denied EVERYTHING.

Yes the airport, pilots, why won't YOU call them?

Because HE didn't call the wrong people and ask the wrong questions in the first place.

CDNVIC, seriously, what is your point?

How can you know what questions I asked? And what is in wrong?

Better turn those brain-cells on.

[Greer]

On reading the pilots (and interested parties) posts, I see that AOT claims to have the incident on videotape - so it should be a very simple matter to confirm that it did, or did not, happen.

TG themselves could not ignore videotape evidence, even if their internal reporting system was a complete shambles (which it may well be).

As one person pointed out, if the airport or aircraft needed repairs, it is a reportable incident, and the AOT should be doing something about it as well.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Greer

[cdnvic]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

She denied EVERYTHING.

Yes the airport, pilots, why won't YOU call them?

Because HE didn't call the wrong people and ask the wrong questions in the first place.

CDNVIC, seriously, what is your point?

How can you know what questions I asked? And what is in wrong?

Better turn those brain-cells on.

Um.... if you read up, you told us the whole thing

(some people make it too easy)

Edited July 23, 2007 by cdnvic

[sonnyJ]

Thai Air seems to be still denying this.

Just called them and after 5 redirects reached the Manager of crisis control. She completely denied any accident.

They seemed very secretive and worried whom am I working for, to degree it was difficult to even get her/their names.

Nothing happened was the final answer.

Ask them if there was an incident not an accident and see what they say. Call the airport up and get their side. Thai air has a pilot group? If so call them and see what they say.

She denied EVERYTHING.

Yes the airport, pilots, why won't YOU call them?

Because HE didn't call the wrong people and ask the wrong questions in the first place.

CDNVIC, seriously, what is your point?

How can you know what questions I asked? And what is in wrong?

Better turn those brain-cells on.

Um.... if you read up, you told us the whole thing

(some people make it too easy)

And which part is in wrong on your opinion?

Maybe you should point it out for us, also maybe you could share us what you would do on this matter.

I'm tired of reading your blathering, pointless posts.

[cdnvic]

I'm tired of reading your blathering, pointless posts.

Should I colour code them to make it easier for you to filter them out?

[Couthy]

Here's the deal - I am a pilot.

An MOR (mandatory occurence report) has to be filed : Not 'if', 'maybe', 'perhaps'.

it is a legal responsibility of the handling pilot. The non handling pilot under the

Air Navigation Order has the responsiblity to follow this up, regardless of the seniority of the handling pilot or who who he is related to. (Air Safety 101).

Secondly, a Tech Log entry must be made so that the Engineers may assess the damge the the aircraft.

Thirdly, the airport authorities have to made aware of any potential damage to their airport.

Ergo.........a huge paper trail

And that's how airplanes work and millions of people get to where they want to go every year in safety.

The paper trail.

One assumes that TG will present the appropriate paperwork to the ICAO?.

[orchis]

I worry how many other things happened that are just never reported.

Edited July 23, 2007 by orchis

[Mid]

I worry how many other things happened that are just never reported.

there you have it ...........................

[meemiathai]

I worry if I am going to get too full from dinner tonight.

[Jimjim]

I don't see where sonnyJ told us what questions he asked. It's certainly viable that he asked the right questions and they denied everything. I don't see why it's so unbelievable as the paper said a Thai exec denied the incident happened.

[taxexile]

Carrier to compensate airport for plane's runway damage

AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

Thai Airways International (THAI) has agreed to compensate Suvarnabhumi airport for damage caused to a runway by one of its aircraft earlier this month, Suvarnabhumi airport director Serirat Prasutatnont said yesterday. The aircraft in question, an Airbus A300-600 which arrived from Phuket, caused the damage when it momentarily slid off the runway at Suvarnabhumi airport during heavy rain at around 5.30pm on July 7. But the pilot never reported the incident, Mr Serirat said. ...........................................

bkk post article here