Thousands Protest Outside Thai Privy Council Chairman's Home

[Jai Dee]

Policemen seeks permission from Criminal Court to issue arrest warrants against DAAD

Policemen will ask the Criminal Court to issue arrest warrants against the leaders of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) this afternoon.

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Bureau Pol.Lt.Gen.Adisorn Nonsee (อดิศร นนทรีย์) says the police are gathering evidences and witnesses to present to the Criminal Court to request for arrest warrants against the DAAD on charges of instigating violence, damaging state property and tarnishing the country’s image and reputation. The evidences will include the media’s video footages.

However, the police will also give the defendants and opportunity to defend themselves. As for demonstrators’ plan to file a lawsuit against authorities hurting protestors, he says they have rights to do.

Pol.Lt.Gen.Adisorn says the protestors are prohibited to move their rallies outside of Sanam Luang (สนามหลวง), otherwise, they will face a higher degree of punishment.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 24 July 2007

[Jai Dee]

CNS assigns Directorate of Intelligence to provide accurate information

Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces and member of the Council for National Security (CNS) Gen Boonsrang Niumpradit (บุญสร้าง เนียมประดิษฐ์) assigns the Directorate of Intelligence to provide right information related to the violence at Privy Councilor and Statesman Gen Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์)’s residence.

Meanwhile, Gen Boonsrang has urged all agencies to give cooperation aimed to improve the national situation. He remarks that demonstrators have the rights to express opinions; however, their demonstrations should not lead to trouble for the society in general.

Gen. Boonsrang views that the person behind the scene must have come from a high profile politician with authority.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 24 July 2007

[hammered]

I think when the arrests come later this week you can expect some press conferences with so much spin and twists it wont even resemble reality. Down side it plays into Thaksin’s hands.

I wonder how much of this was caught on the new CCTV they have been installing. Certainly a few new priority places in Bangkok have been identified like near Prem’s house for one.

This is certainly something the authorites have to play carefully. With all the media pics and videos the sympathy is certainly with the police now and the PTV demonstrators are in a bad light. Some of the pictures and video footage will lead to slam dunk prosecutions of rioters, but that does not include all or some of the leaders. I am not sure what they have on the leader of the maniacal white dove group. However, it seems the authorities do have video footage of the apparently quite vitriolic and confrontational speeches being given. The conundrum is that by airing excerpts they could paint these leaders in a bad light but they would at the same time give the message a greater exposure than the miniscule one it has now. Another thing they will have to think out clearly is that while most Thai people expect and probably support the arrest of the leaders now, how it is done will be critical. The pro-Thaksin demonstrators clearly want a public arrest of all leaders at Sanam Luang in front of TV cameras and preferably with a tad of police violence. Obviously the authorities do not want this scenario but also cannot at this point probably not arrest people as this would make them look not only weak but also allowing very unpopular mob rule to continue. Although right now the authorites have the upper hand in the war of perceptions it will still take careful steps for them to retain it.

I am always amazed how some posters apparently know what "most Thai people" feel.My own view is that the pro-democracy protestors were taking a fairly high risk approach.Those Thais I have talked to however have indicated a preference for the authorities to take a low key and conciliatory approach.That would also be the smart thing to do especially as there is some evidence of police provocation.

Has Hammered given up even going through the motions of an even handed approach? Remember all this is the direct consequence of an illegal coup overthrowing an elected government.Save the expresions of outrage until Thailand has a properly functioning democracy again.

Actually I thought I had commented on the problems the authorities had associated with dealing with what happened on Sunday. Indeed I have been trying to look at the whole perceptions/PR angle in a number of posts now. I am sorry if this upsets anyone. I know that this to date PR debacle by the PTV or the well manipulated PR event by the Junta (depending on your angle) leaves some frustrated. We could go back to the old arguements of whether the coup was needed or not or all the other arguements about Thaksin, corruption, extra judicial stuff, or shadowy powerful people that usually sidetrack these threads, but it is probably better to keep this thread on track, so I will refrain from rising to any of those.

I will ammend my comment to read those Thai people I have spoken to (I do not seem to be able to edit this comment, sorry).I do however feel that expressions of outrage are justified at any time violence occurs. We should not forget that apart from police and protestors injured some people were stuck in their residences while a scary situation occurred and that when they came out they found damage to their houses and belongings in several cases. That is not something i personally feel we should turn a blind eye just because the protestors "claim" to be fighters for democracy. I wonder how many of those that have residences or businesses in ther affected area on Sunday would agree with that description.

Peace.

Mods please delete if this personal comment if deemed a distraction or inflammatory, but I felt a need to reply.

Edited July 24, 2007 by hammered

[hotelier]

they have no business coming to bangkok to cause trouble protesting and destroying public property. better to let the educated people incharge do what their jobs are to do: govern and rule the land. pity. my thai chinese wife said it best "back to your province."

I don't think I could have summarised the position better myself.

you sound like the father of the guy with the Benz that mowed down innocent people. Who are you to say who is educated and who is not?

and by saying your wife is thai chinese, are you trying to say she's more educated than the average thai and does not live in "province"?

ps: nothing against thai chinese as my gf is one of em

[Mid]

CNS assigns Directorate of Intelligence to provide accurate information

personally , I find no comfort here

[younghusband]

"They have the right to stage a peaceful rally but we will not allow them to move [from Sanam Luang] to cause trouble," he said. The anti-coup protesters threw a barrage of rocks, chairs and debris into the compound of Prem's home on Sunday night.......

The CNS had tried to compromise with the rally leaders but they did not cooperate, Sonthi said. It was time to take legal steps to control the situation, he added. The CNS had learnt that the anti-coup protestors would march to Prem's home, but it did not expect they would launch such an attack, Sonthi said.

Sonthi said he went to Prem's home yesterday morning to "apologise for failing to take good care of him".

"He [Prem] said he did not expect that the protesters would have done much harm to him because he had been working for the country for years. Most of all, he loves the country and is very loyal to the monarchy," Sonthi said.

- The Nation

Just a reminder here, this is an 87 year old man whose house they attacked. There is no doubt violence was aimed at him, personally.

For the record this is just an opinion, and one for which no evidence is offered, and in my opinion is inflammatory and plain wrong.The fact that someone is 87 (and in good health with all his faculties) does not give a free pass and Prem is accountable for all his actions whether foolish or in the country's interest.Finally if moderators are to intervene on controversial political subjects it would probably be useful if they made it clear they do so in a personal capacity

[Mid]

Thai military council leader accuses Thaksin of connection with violent demonstration

17:39, July 24, 2007

Thailand's Council for National Security (CNS) chairman Sonthi Boonyaratkalin said Tuesday that authorities believed ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was involved in Sunday's anti-coup protests, which turned violent in late hours.

"Based on an analysis of their preparation process, we are fairly sure that there is a connection between Mr. Thaksin and the violent protests," state media Thai News Agency quoted Sonthi as saying in an interview with Thailand's state-controlled TV Channel 9 broadcast on Tuesday morning.

However, the CNS chief said there has been no confirmation on the speculation that Thaksin provided financial support for the protests.

english.people.com.cn

[sbk]

In my opinion, it is unacceptable to throw bricks, rocks and chairs at the home of an elderly person and such behavior is, in my opinion, indicative of a violent attitude.

Good enough for you?

[younghusband]

In my opinion, it is unacceptable to throw bricks, rocks and chairs at the home of an elderly person and such behavior is, in my opinion, indicative of a violent attitude.

Good enough for you?

That's somewhat better if still rather fuzzily expressed but is it true? I have seen accounts and pictures in the Thai blogosphere which give a different impression from the accounts in the English language press.But I don't know for certain since I wasn't there.

Is it in your opinion also unacceptable to plot for the illegal overthrow of an elected government by a military junta?

Edited July 24, 2007 by younghusband

[sbk]

So is vote buying on a massive scale, hardly makes it legally elected then, does it?

Sorry to disturb your little post with my apparently invalid opinions. Lets just say that not every Thai supports Thaksin and his cronies and to suggest that is foolishness, just as it is suggesting the last election was valid in anyway.

But, hardly the discussion here. Is it?

[John K]

Younghusband, please don’t take this as a flame, but if someone dumped out a bottle of Pepsi and replaced it with orange juice, I think you will still call it Pepsi.

[younghusband]

So is vote buying on a massive scale, hardly makes it legally elected then, does it?

Sorry to disturb your little post with my apparently invalid opinions. Lets just say that not every Thai supports Thaksin and his cronies and to suggest that is foolishness, just as it is suggesting the last election was valid in anyway.

But, hardly the discussion here. Is it?

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, and I agree that not every Thai supports Thaksin, but most did.The trouble is that it's just not helpful to see Thai politics just in pro Thaksin/anti Thaksin terms.The last election was not perfect but it was nevertheless a reasonable test of national opinion.Finally historians will certainly wish to understand Prem's part in the military coup.

[Mid]

Anti-coup group file police complaint against Seripisuth

(BangkokPost.com) - Leaders from the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship filed a police complaint against Acting National Police Chief Seripisuth Temiyavej for ordering police to attack anti-coup protesters who clashed with police in front of Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda's residence.

About 200 police and 30 demonstrators were injured in the Sunday night's clash.

The Post Publishing Public Co

[Mid]

Update: PM speaks after meeting Prem

(BangkokPost.com) - Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda does not hold a grudge against those who gathered outside his residence on Sunday calling on his resignation, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said after meeting with him on Tuesday afternoon.

Gen Surayud said Gen Prem told him and his ministers that what happened on Sunday was unexpected and therefore will not put the blame on any party.

The Post Publishing Public Co

[TAWP]

Yes, evil police that tries to do their job.

The ratio of wounded (200 to 30) is an indication of who did what.

[younghusband]

Younghusband, please don’t take this as a flame, but if someone dumped out a bottle of Pepsi and replaced it with orange juice, I think you will still call it Pepsi.

Thank you for this contribution which in sophistication and intelligence is certainly of a standard we have come to expect from you.

[sbk]

We clearly live in entirely different regions of Thailand younghusband. I do not know a single Thai person who supports Thaksin. And if you will take another look at the results of the last election I think you will find a substantially large enough population was so disenchanted as to vote "no vote" resulting in only a single elected member of Parliament in the entire Southern region.

So, if an entire region choosing to be disenfranchised still accounts for most in your book, so be it. We beg to differ.

As to the idea that there was no violence at Prem's house, well, I guess I'd like to see some proof that it was all staged, which is what you appear to be implying.

Personally, I have no opinion on Prem as a politician one way or another but find it very disturbing that some elements apparently feel that a violent reaction towards an old man is somehow acceptable. Better to demonstrate against the military. Don't you think?

[Mid]

Prasong expects more anti-coup riots

(BangkokPost.com) - Constitution Drafting Committee chairman Prasong Soonsiri said he believes political situation will turn more violent ahead of a national referendum on a draft constitution scheduled for August 19.

He said the scuffle between police and anti-coup protesters of United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship on Sunday night in front of Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda's residence is just the group's testing of state's power, adding that he believes it was not the end.

The Post Publishing Public Co

[John K]

Younghusband, please don’t take this as a flame, but if someone dumped out a bottle of Pepsi and replaced it with orange juice, I think you will still call it Pepsi.

Thank you for this contribution which in sophistication and intelligence is certainly of a standard we have come to expect from you.

Thank you for just adding confirmation you have not a clue what is going on.

Many times I want to engage you in a debate but I feel like I am talking to someone who can’t see other opinions are more realistic and won’t back down even in the face of logic. To debate required the ability to listen as well as speak.

[John K]

Prasong expects more anti-coup riots

(BangkokPost.com) - Constitution Drafting Committee chairman Prasong Soonsiri said he believes political situation will turn more violent ahead of a national referendum on a draft constitution scheduled for August 19.

He said the scuffle between police and anti-coup protesters of United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship on Sunday night in front of Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda's residence is just the group's testing of state's power, adding that he believes it was not the end.

The Post Publishing Public Co

I can agree with this, and theat the goal of the group is to invoke a state of emergency and use it for political spin. I feel a prediction coming on.......

However at the moment I see this group as more of a street gang of thugs. I was trying to match an age with their actions, I keep coming up blank because it more resembles drug related behavior.

[Plus]

To ask the same question differently - has anyone seen anything in support of the mob attack? Anyone knows a Thai who supported or at least approved of it?

Speeches by mobsters themselves do not count.

Also - what do you think the thugs would have done to Prem's house and Prem himself if they broke through police lines? It wasn't like a bunch of teenagers venting their frustration, they had a clear target in mind.

As time goes by, everyone has to make a choice, and mostly it will be about the coup. For people opposing it it will become increasingly difficult as they get more and more isolated from the mainstream society and lumped toghether with thugs on drunken rumpage. Check that SJ's underlining of White Dove leader participation. Is it what all anti-coup/pro-democracy opposition will eventually reduce themseves to - Thaksin sidekicks?

[hammered]

To ask the same question differently - has anyone seen anything in support of the mob attack? Anyone knows a Thai who supported or at least approved of it?

Speeches by mobsters themselves do not count.

Also - what do you think the thugs would have done to Prem's house and Prem himself if they broke through police lines? It wasn't like a bunch of teenagers venting their frustration, they had a clear target in mind.

As time goes by, everyone has to make a choice, and mostly it will be about the coup. For people opposing it it will become increasingly difficult as they get more and more isolated from the mainstream society and lumped toghether with thugs on drunken rumpage. Check that SJ's underlining of White Dove leader participation. Is it what all anti-coup/pro-democracy opposition will eventually reduce themseves to - Thaksin sidekicks?

That is always the dilemma at any demo against a person. It is probably fair to assume that many at rallies do not really want to break through lines as mobs can be very very nasty. In reality few people in life really want to torch someones house or beat the crap out of them but in hysterical mob situtations this can happen and demonstrators to a large degree do rely on the authorites to prevent them really getting to their target with the fire of rousing speeches (and hopefully not alcohol) in their belly, and many may even hope they are prevented. A lot of people attend rallies for a variety of reasons and hysteria can lead to all kinds of actions but how many of them really in the cold light of day want to kill, beat, burn or maim given the chance?

[seonai]

Mid, thanks for your updates, please keep us (the forum) posted as to what's happening in Bkk

[Mid]

undeserved kudos , I'm afraid

it's all freely available on the net

thanxs

mid

[sriracha john]

Blog TV...Thaksin's multi-pronged offensive and Sunday evening's mayhem

Click to watch the latest video clip of Suthichai Yoon's (Nation Group Editor-in-Chief) comment on Sunday evening's violent clashes between police and protestors in front of Gen Prem Tinsulanonda's residence and the ensuing political implications. Is there a link between Thaksin's offensive and the street clashes?

- The Nation

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2007/07/24/entry-1

[think_too_mut]

Is Thailand getting closer to Burma type of a military dictatorship or closer to a democracy?

The junta has failed, the thing is how that they failed so comprehensively.

And their incompetent leader is still deciding whether he runs for PM elections.

The junta has just made the otherwise a healthy place (with strings attached) into a intermittent coup and civil governments, none competent and corruption free, as slippery as a snake.

[Siripon]

Referendum and election coming, no serious violence so far.Please elaborate regarding failures of the junta.

[Ricardo]

In my opinion, it is unacceptable to throw bricks, rocks and chairs at the home of an elderly person and such behavior is, in my opinion, indicative of a violent attitude.

Good enough for you?

That's somewhat better if still rather fuzzily expressed but is it true? I have seen accounts and pictures in the Thai blogosphere which give a different impression from the accounts in the English language press.But I don't know for certain since I wasn't there.

I can't comment on the print media, but can say that, had you been watching TITV News over the past couple of days, you would have no doubt, about the level of violence shown by the protesters.

Is it in your opinion also unacceptable to plot for the illegal overthrow of an elected government by a military junta?

Again on a point of accuracy, that was a caretaker-government, following an unfair & boycotted election, which was later declared invalid. And that the new government after the coup was rapidly approved by a higher authority - which counts for a lot, here in Thailand.

[Mid]

Thai police seeks arrest warrants for 9 leaders of violent anti-government protest

The Associated Press

Published: July 24, 2007

iht.com

nine ????

Edited July 24, 2007 by Mid

[think_too_mut]

Referendum and election coming, no serious violence so far.Please elaborate regarding failures of the junta.

What have they made better? Just an armed gang that would wash dishes in the west, had hey been released to sniff into the civilization. Much like the Burmese "leaders".

Carrying guns, never elected, not accountable to anyone but free to make decisions.

There were no arrests and no protests before they rolled the tanks into the city.

All they wanted is Thaksin's money, for them, still desperately chasing it. It's pathetic to watch how money hungry the junta is.

If they stand for an elections, in any form, they would not radiate any confidence.

Let's see what Thais have to say with the ballots.

Before that happens, I am afraid, the junta would do a thing or two to rig it. They will never ever have Thaksin's kind of support. Possibly, no elections come any time soon.