Hd-dvd Player

[dominique355]

So I thought, since my TV is HD-ready and since my DVD Player has HDMI connection, I can play back an HD-DVD .... but ... No, I cannot. My player is not an HD-DVD player.

So I tried to find out where they are, who builds them, where are they sold, but the only player I could find was a Toshiba, and this player did not have connectors for speakers, so I would have to connect it to an AV-center, but that's going to cost a lot, a lot!

Does anyone know if there are "normally" priced HD-DVD players sold in Thailand, which can be directly connected to speakers?

The above mentioned Toshiba was priced about THB 30'000 and an AV Center from Pioneer was priced in USA US$ 1'500.- A bit hefty, no?

[Ian_B]

Why not get a PS3 instead?

It is one of the cheapest ways to get into HD and can also play games cost around 19,000THB for the 60GB model

The Japanese PS3 is the same zone as the US so all US blu ray movies play on it

The PS3 has HDMI and optical out etc and is a great player - all you need to buy is the separate remote for it

1080p movies look really nice compared to DVD

[dominique355]

Thanks Ian, good idea. I heard X-Box does the same trick.

Now after some further internet searching, I am a bit confused about HD-ready TVs. There is 1080i (interlaced) and 1080p (?). Can anybody enlighten me what's the difference?

Thanks

[Firefoxx]

HD-DVD players are pretty darn hard to find, and to really get the full experience you'd need an AV receiver and a full set of speaker (5.1 or more). A rocking TV is only half the package (picture) you also need good sound. A low-end AV receiver and speaker set will set you back around 20,000 baht. Don't forget you'll also need to be able to find the *movies* themselves. So far, the selection is very scant, if you even manage to find a store that sells them.

An alternative to the PS3 is the X-box, if you also buy the HD-DVD drive. Don't know where you can find the drive.

I've had better luck downloading HDTV movies and then playing them back via DVI (to HDMI or HDMI to DVI) by computer. This will have to do until HD-DVD becomes widespread in Thailand. I already have 30+ movies to watch.

[Simmo]

Thanks Ian, good idea. I heard X-Box does the same trick.

Now after some further internet searching, I am a bit confused about HD-ready TVs. There is 1080i (interlaced) and 1080p (?). Can anybody enlighten me what's the difference?

Thanks

Most "HD-Ready" set sold here are 720p resolutions sets (typically 1366*768). They'll accept a 1080p/i signal but convert it to 720p for display.

1080p is typically sold under the moniker of "True HD" and is expensive here.

[Ian_B]

If you can I'd go for the 1080p as all the movies are 1080p so why not get a set to bring out the best in them

You can tell the difference as I've played 720p movies from my PC to my HDTV and 1080p Blu Ray movies from the PS3.

Also more and more PS3 games are in 1080p and they look fantastic at this resolution

[dttk0009]

Personally, I wouldn't bother with either HDDVD or Blu-ray at this point, because they're still so unavailable, expensive, and new to the market. As someone stated earlier, there's barely anything to watch in HD. I would personally wait until next year or so, before you go spending a good deal of money on a betamax player. What you COULD do, is use your dvd player to upscale some dvd's that you have. It'll greatly increase the quality of the picture.

[Richard-BKK]

Sorry but the Xbox360 doesn't come standard with a HD-DVD drive, the built in drive is a DVD drive. You can buy an additional HD-DVD drive.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360hddvdplayer/

At the moment, if you feel the need, I will bet on buying a Blu-Ray HD drive. It seems that at the moment there are more Blu-Ray movie titles available.

[solo siam]

Or just plug the Toshiba HD-DVD player into the TV and use the TV speakers like you would with any normal DVD player.

One reason to go with the Toshiba is that it is a really good NORMAL dvd player as well, It doesn't sound like you want to be messing around using games machines to play Hi Def movies with. HD-DVD are also NOT region encoded, which means you can play any HD-DVD from anywhere in the world in any HD-DVD player. The same can not be said for Blu-Ray.

[dttk0009]

I think what will be the deciding factor, which strangely hasn't been mentioned yet, is that HD-DVD is cheaper, and Blu-Ray is quite a bit more expensive. This is going to be the deciding factor for many, many consumers in this particular media war.

[bkk_mike]

Or just plug the Toshiba HD-DVD player into the TV and use the TV speakers like you would with any normal DVD player.

One reason to go with the Toshiba is that it is a really good NORMAL dvd player as well, It doesn't sound like you want to be messing around using games machines to play Hi Def movies with. HD-DVD are also NOT region encoded, which means you can play any HD-DVD from anywhere in the world in any HD-DVD player. The same can not be said for Blu-Ray.

With the latest firmware updates, the PS3 is actually an upscaling DVD player, as well as a Blu-Ray player, as well as a games console. (and the first two Toshiba HD players were only 1080i, only the very latest ones are 1080p - even though the disks are all 1080p - you have to know exactly what model of player you're buying.)

At the moment though, look around, see what movies you can find, and go with the format (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) that has the movies you want to watch. (i.e. Some film studios are publishing in both formats, but there are others in one camp or the other.)

Obviously - if Sony pictures starts selling movies on HD-DVD, you'll know that Blu-Ray has lost, but at the moment, I don't think either is clearly winning. (i.e. Blockbuster in the US only stocks Blu-Ray, but the porn industry seems to have initially gone for HD-DVD because it's cheaper to produce).

[solo siam]

Or just plug the Toshiba HD-DVD player into the TV and use the TV speakers like you would with any normal DVD player.

One reason to go with the Toshiba is that it is a really good NORMAL dvd player as well, It doesn't sound like you want to be messing around using games machines to play Hi Def movies with. HD-DVD are also NOT region encoded, which means you can play any HD-DVD from anywhere in the world in any HD-DVD player. The same can not be said for Blu-Ray.

With the latest firmware updates, the PS3 is actually an upscaling DVD player, as well as a Blu-Ray player, as well as a games console. (and the first two Toshiba HD players were only 1080i, only the very latest ones are 1080p - even though the disks are all 1080p - you have to know exactly what model of player you're buying.)

At the moment though, look around, see what movies you can find, and go with the format (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) that has the movies you want to watch. (i.e. Some film studios are publishing in both formats, but there are others in one camp or the other.)

Obviously - if Sony pictures starts selling movies on HD-DVD, you'll know that Blu-Ray has lost, but at the moment, I don't think either is clearly winning. (i.e. Blockbuster in the US only stocks Blu-Ray, but the porn industry seems to have initially gone for HD-DVD because it's cheaper to produce).

At the end of the day the OP hasn't even realised that a HDMI cable actually carries audio.

I don't think hes going to be happy haggling for a PS3, updating the PS3 over the internet, making the correct settings etc.. and then controlling his movie watching experience with a games pad.

Don't get me started on the 1080i, 1080p crap - Any Flat Panel display can ONLY display a progressive image as digital displays HAVE to be progressive. 1080i sends the same amount of data at half the size but twice as quick. You would see absolutely no difference between a 1080i and a 1080p image, the TV shows exactly the same thing.

DONT fall into the marketers trap, 1080i and 1080p you couldn't tell the difference.

[Ian_B]

Updating the PS3 is easy as pie and each update adds extra functionality to it.

I've found it much easier to stream MP3s and pictures than with the 360. I've completely gone off the 360 now that my 3rd 360 has is on it's last legs!!

The PS3 blu ray remotes are readily available here and work fine

I do not have any 1080i movies but with my 46" 1080p bravia and I can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p (mind you I am generally sat a few feet away from the TV as the Bravia is also my 2nd PC monitor!)

I've got around 30 blu ray movies now and the difference between DVD and HD is amazing

[Firefoxx]

Ben, you can actually tell the difference between a 1080i and 1080p picture. It's just that it's not very obvious in movies where there is very little fine detail and lots of movement. If you were to use a static picture with a lot of geometric objects, you would immediately see the difference (and your eyes would hurt, too).

Strange that the X vs Y arguments always pop up to hijack a thread. Perhaps it's some kind of product fetish?

[solo siam]

Ben, you can actually tell the difference between a 1080i and 1080p picture. It's just that it's not very obvious in movies where there is very little fine detail and lots of movement. If you were to use a static picture with a lot of geometric objects, you would immediately see the difference (and your eyes would hurt, too).

Strange that the X vs Y arguments always pop up to hijack a thread. Perhaps it's some kind of product fetish?

Thats wrong I'm afraid....

LCD and Plasma displays are NOT capable of displaying an interlaced image, so a static image of 1080i would look identical to one at 1080p on an LCD or Plasma.

Basically they both send the same amount of data to the TV per second, 1080i just sends half the data But twice as quickly, the TV simply waits for the second half of the info and builds up a 1080p picture from it.

1080i considerations only come into play with CRT's, of which most people don't use for Tvs - Thats why there is no 720i.

[sahprite]

I would heartily recommend the playstation 3 for Bluray movies played on a Full HD 1080p tv. The sound and picture (via HDMI cable) are truly remarkable and well worth the investment. If you want to play through speakers for extra volume then you will have to buy an AV system that can handle HDMI cables and 1080p in order not to loose any quality. However, I have found the Bravia X-series can put out plenty of volume without distortion due to the quality of uncompressed sound on the Bluray disc.

You can access the full range of Bluray movies from Amazon.com (US, Japan and Thailand are now the same region). Even with the 30% import tax (sometimes) applied by Thai customs it works out about the same and sometimes cheaper than the stores in Bangkok and delivered in about 2 weeks. There is a reasonable selection available in the DVD store based in the BTS Chidlom station and they will order any one that you want.

Yes, the PS3 can upsacle DVDs but beware which country you buy it from. I have the Japanese version and it will play only DVDs from region 2, ie., it won't play any I have, including UK ones as it won't support the PAL system. This is very frustrating for me as it won't play the HD mini-DVDs from my Sony HD video camera either as they are PAL, too. However, the Singapore PS3 plays games in NTSC but also plays DVDs in PAL. Aaaargh, why do they make it so difficult. I guess when they can 'chip' the PS3 it will solve these inconveniences.

Dedicated Bluray players aren't yet available (I guess the customs or whoever have not got their tes money yet) although SOny have just started selling a laptop with built-in Bluray. Sony must love this coutry

Anyone want to buy a PS3?

Sahprite

[Firefoxx]

Well, I actually own one, and can tell you that you can tell the difference. Not only that, it does flicker a bit, just like a CRT when displaying interlaced images.

The thing when watching 1080i content on 1080p screens (or even 1080i content on 1080i screens) is that yes, you will likely not notice any type of flickering because of the type of the content (movies). It doesn't mean that it's not there. I can basically fire up my LCD HDTV and see the that it does indeed flicker when in 1080i, but I'd need to be watching a static image of geometric shapes (as I said before) to actually notice. If I open up a HD movie, the flicker is virtually gone (this is on the same source/input). With a 1080p screen, there might also be internal upscaling, which would reduce the effect.

I say that theory is nice, but wait until you actually see it to actually say that it's definitely true. I can't count the number of times I've been rebuked by people who use things like "people say that" and "it's theoretically not possible" or "the specs say so" or etc. etc., when I see examples to contradict what they say every day, since I actually use it.

[solo siam]

Well, I actually own one, and can tell you that you can tell the difference. Not only that, it does flicker a bit, just like a CRT when displaying interlaced images.

The thing when watching 1080i content on 1080p screens (or even 1080i content on 1080i screens) is that yes, you will likely not notice any type of flickering because of the type of the content (movies). It doesn't mean that it's not there. I can basically fire up my LCD HDTV and see the that it does indeed flicker when in 1080i, but I'd need to be watching a static image of geometric shapes (as I said before) to actually notice. If I open up a HD movie, the flicker is virtually gone (this is on the same source/input). With a 1080p screen, there might also be internal upscaling, which would reduce the effect.

I say that theory is nice, but wait until you actually see it to actually say that it's definitely true. I can't count the number of times I've been rebuked by people who use things like "people say that" and "it's theoretically not possible" or "the specs say so" or etc. etc., when I see examples to contradict what they say every day, since I actually use it.

I'm not going on something I've read off the internet, or theoretics. I do this everyday for a living. 1080i images do not interlace subsequent frames on Digital displays (LCD's, Plasmas etc..)

This is what happens....

in the timeframe that it takes a 1080p image to send this to the TV;

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

a 1080i image has sent the exact same data as two smaller pieces

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

| |

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

| |

and

| |

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

| |

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

in the same timeframe.

either way the TV gets the exact same data at the exact same rate and displays the same 1920x1080 image, the framerate for both stays the same.

Another example for a 24 fps film

1080p sends 24 1920x1080 pieces of data per second

1080i sends 48 1020x540 pieces of data per second

In both cases the TV will only show 24 frames per second.

[LivinLOS]

But thats only when your talking film source 24 frames per second.. Then you have the 3:2 pull down issues to create enough 'repeat frames' for the 60 hertz also. (Not talking about PAL HD @50 which does I understand exist).

What about HD video shot at full 60 hertz ??

So one is 540x1920@60 the other would be 1080x1920@60..

[solo siam]

I don't know of any video shot at 1080p/60fps, The HD standard is based on 24,25 or 30 fps. I don't believe that TV's that are 1080P or FULL HD can actually deal with 60 frames per second in that mode, I might be wrong there but it's double the bandwidth and there is no content (or standard) that currently uses that much data - I'm doubting they would build in redundancy for double the data rate over the current standard.

As far as I know there are no HD broadcasts output in 1080p at all, I'm yet to get my hands on a HD DVD disk of a TV series, which I'm guessing is still the standard 24fps.

My guess is that for 60fps 1080p the equivelant is 540x1920x120 - Some of the newer TV sets are 120Hz, however I thought that was for the even division by 24 and 30.

[lor]

I own an XBOX-360 and wanted to get into HD-DVD so I bought myself the addon (Which has just been reduced in price AND you get 5 free films with it!) Bought it here is Pattaya at a games shop in Dot-Com.

The Next thing I did was to run to the DVD stored to buy an HD-DVD, guesse what - no one had ever heard of an HD-DVD, they tried to sell me HD Dixv or WMV DVD version of movies but no one had a real HD-DVD. Any way, I eventually ordered some through the internet from Play.com adn havn't looked back yet. I like the fact that HD-DVD is backwards compatible and some movies have standard DVD on one side and HD on the other, so even if you do not have an HD-DVD player now you can still buy the new movies in HD, play the standard version side in your old player and when you upgrade you will already have an HD collection!

Another reason why I have gone for HD-DVD and not Blueray is that HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD, Blueray is a Sony product and any one who uses it will have to license it from Sony. I have been stung by Sony in the past. They love to bring out propriatry systems that only they control then when they feel they have soaked it for all the money they can, they drop it completely, leaving the users high and dry with a product that is no longer supported. Playstation Portable Movies for one example and the stupid Memory sticks which I can no longer get to fit into my Sony Digital camera.

Regards

Chris

[LivinLOS]

I don't know of any video shot at 1080p/60fps, The HD standard is based on 24,25 or 30 fps. I don't believe that TV's that are 1080P or FULL HD can actually deal with 60 frames per second in that mode, I might be wrong there but it's double the bandwidth and there is no content (or standard) that currently uses that much data - I'm doubting they would build in redundancy for double the data rate over the current standard.

As far as I know there are no HD broadcasts output in 1080p at all, I'm yet to get my hands on a HD DVD disk of a TV series, which I'm guessing is still the standard 24fps.

My guess is that for 60fps 1080p the equivelant is 540x1920x120 - Some of the newer TV sets are 120Hz, however I thought that was for the even division by 24 and 30.

I can say for 100% sure that 1080p comes in

1080p@24

1080p@30

1080p@60

And I think in the ATSC HD spec is also 1080@50 but I am unsure if this was ever used ?? I think it may have been part of the UK HiDef trials for the 50 / 100hz issues that UK TV's / power issues have.

I have also read of guys running CRT projectors at 120 hz 720p to create even frame rates of 24 fps for film and 60 hz for video.. Of course by running such high frequencies they are losing resolution but this was in the pre HiDef days and 720 was upscaling DVD anyway. With a HTPC you can have easy hotkeys to switch between 72 hz and 60 hz depending on source (actually idealy you should hit 59.94 for the refresh rate.. Powerstrip allows this kind of fine tuning). I tried it to make smoother pan shots but actually found ReClock audio filter a much better option at smoothing source related timing jitter.

[LivinLOS]

I just read about the HD-DVD camp offering a player with some 5 discs bringing its hardware price oint down to the 120 USD mark..

I feel that the camp that gets the first pirate copies on the market will be one that gains a real additional market share.. I am actually surprised that no one has started mastering HD-DVD yet..

[solo siam]

I don't know of any video shot at 1080p/60fps, The HD standard is based on 24,25 or 30 fps. I don't believe that TV's that are 1080P or FULL HD can actually deal with 60 frames per second in that mode, I might be wrong there but it's double the bandwidth and there is no content (or standard) that currently uses that much data - I'm doubting they would build in redundancy for double the data rate over the current standard.

As far as I know there are no HD broadcasts output in 1080p at all, I'm yet to get my hands on a HD DVD disk of a TV series, which I'm guessing is still the standard 24fps.

My guess is that for 60fps 1080p the equivelant is 540x1920x120 - Some of the newer TV sets are 120Hz, however I thought that was for the even division by 24 and 30.

I can say for 100% sure that 1080p comes in

1080p@24

1080p@30

1080p@60

And I think in the ATSC HD spec is also 1080@50 but I am unsure if this was ever used ?? I think it may have been part of the UK HiDef trials for the 50 / 100hz issues that UK TV's / power issues have.

I have also read of guys running CRT projectors at 120 hz 720p to create even frame rates of 24 fps for film and 60 hz for video.. Of course by running such high frequencies they are losing resolution but this was in the pre HiDef days and 720 was upscaling DVD anyway. With a HTPC you can have easy hotkeys to switch between 72 hz and 60 hz depending on source (actually idealy you should hit 59.94 for the refresh rate.. Powerstrip allows this kind of fine tuning). I tried it to make smoother pan shots but actually found ReClock audio filter a much better option at smoothing source related timing jitter.

Can't think of any 1080p@60 sources, maybe some video games on the PS3? Some crzy HD cameras perhaps.

Its not part of the ATSC spec, or at least it wasn't before, if it is now. 720p@60 is but not as far as I'm aware 1080p@60.

I know that people are trying to push 1080p60 as a standard, but don't think it is yet.

Yes I've used reclock before, and your right it does smooth out the pans, although it gave me issues before I think with timings and audio sync.

[LivinLOS]

Your right its not in the ATSC specs.. I was really sure it was in there..

[lor]

I believe the copy protection for both HD-DVD and Blueray has been broken already! I know I can plug my HD-DVD player into the computer and read the full file system. I could also play the disc with no problem if my processor was fast enough!

Chris

[konangrit]

Can't think of any 1080p@60 sources, maybe some video games on the PS3?

Yeah, there are several 1080p@60 games for the PS3.

Edited July 30, 2007 by konangrit

[konangrit]

I believe the copy protection for both HD-DVD and Blueray has been broken already! I know I can plug my HD-DVD player into the computer and read the full file system. I could also play the disc with no problem if my processor was fast enough!

Chris

HD-DVD and BluRay had indeed been broken, since they were using only one key to decrypt all the discs. However BluRay has another level of protection that hasn't been used so far, meaning that BluRay discs so far are considered cracked, but they might change the releases in the future.

For Toshiba the times are gloomier, as there is no backup protection available, and it seems that the studios are turning their backs on them.

I believe the solution was already demonstrated by Ricoh, which made lens that can pickup both HD-DVD and BluRay discs. LG has already unveiled a "Universal player" that plays basically anything you throw at it, with the limitation of only being able to display the BluRay disc menus, while using player-based generic menus for HD-DVD (given BluRay is Java and HD-DVD isn't).

There was a war between BetaMax and VHS - and there could be only one winner as formats were physically different. Here it's 2 12-cm discs, with identical encoding of the streams, just different depth of data layers and menu language. It's like DVD+R and DVD-R. Which one won? Who cares. All players and recorders sold now can play and record both. I am sure 3rd generation of BluRay and HD-DVD won't be any different. Despite Bluray's edge at the moment on sold discs, and HD-DVD's vastly reduced price level for the players (299$ vs. 699$ up for BluRay) there likely won't be a winner.

We'll just all have universal players a year or 2 down the track.

The thing is Blu-ray and HD-DVD are completely different technologies. Whereas DVD+R and DVD-R were similar enough to make affordable dual format drives, dual HD drives actually cost more than buying each separately, and not many hardware manufacturers seem interested in producing them. The only major studio which is exclusive to HD-DVD is Universal, and they're rumoured to be locked in a contract with Toshiba until the end of the year. If that's true, and Universal start publishing Blu-ray titles next year it won't matter how much the players are if you can only play certain movies on it. It really doesn't look good for HD-DVD at the moment, if anyone is considering buying a player, I seriously suggest waiting a while as it could well be the HD equivalent of Betamax. That's a shame as HD-DVD is region free, compared to Blu-ray's three region restrictions. I really don't know why governments don't make it illegal to region restrict media as it's anti-free trade.

[SirPaul]

The xbox is reported as having a noisy dvd drive compared to the ps3? is this true?