When Your Employer Pisses You Off

[Boca]

Alright, I've been at my present job for almost 3 years now and generally it has been not too bad. We do ok, but obviously I feel I should be getting paid more, but who doesn't? I work for a US multi national by the way.

Anyway, the last few months there has just been a combination of little things that haven't gone my way that makes me feel they're starting to take the piss a little bit. If you're still reading so far, here's what they are:-

1. No more OT pay for traveling on weekends. In fact no extra pay at all for traveling at weekends. So you travel to a job on a Sat or a Sun of your time and the company seems to think we should no longer be paid any extra for this. As we work regional in field service, this is a big loss and a frequent occurrence. All of our group are pissed off with this one.

2. My boss told me verbally that my payrise, which should have been from April onwards but was delayed for some technicalities, would get back dated, but today low and behold, the company are now saying they are not back dating.

3. A needed a new passport as my current one was full up with visa stamps (work related) so I asked about claiming this as a business expense (144 GBP for a new one). No was the answer. Ok, I'm a bit pissed but never mind. Anyway, I'm talking to a workmate and then he tells me just last year the company paid for his one. What the f++k?!

None of the above is going to kill me but the principle of the thing is pissing me off.. Rant over. Dont even know why I wrote this.

As you were.

[technocracy]

1) Why tell them it was travelling time? Quite simple you took all that time to do the work. Why tell them it travelling time?? At a weekend and OT as soon as you get in that car to travel you are working - regardless.

2) Go and see his boss AND HR and kick up and almighty stink - all payrises should be back dated to the start of the financially year. Don't p*ss about go to the highest person you can get a hold of.

3) Why ask and give them a choice?? Just put it in!!!

Jeez - grow some balls and get a grip! You need be a more assertive! You'll find they'll actually pay you some respect instead of just walking over you.

[chachachacha]

Alright, I've been at my present job for almost 3 years now and generally it has been not too bad. We do ok, but obviously I feel I should be getting paid more, but who doesn't? I work for a US multi national by the way.

Anyway, the last few months there has just been a combination of little things that haven't gone my way that makes me feel they're starting to take the piss a little bit. If you're still reading so far, here's what they are:-

1. No more OT pay for traveling on weekends. In fact no extra pay at all for traveling at weekends. So you travel to a job on a Sat or a Sun of your time and the company seems to think we should no longer be paid any extra for this. As we work regional in field service, this is a big loss and a frequent occurrence. All of our group are pissed off with this one.

2. My boss told me verbally that my payrise, which should have been from April onwards but was delayed for some technicalities, would get back dated, but today low and behold, the company are now saying they are not back dating.

3. A needed a new passport as my current one was full up with visa stamps (work related) so I asked about claiming this as a business expense (144 GBP for a new one). No was the answer. Ok, I'm a bit pissed but never mind. Anyway, I'm talking to a workmate and then he tells me just last year the company paid for his one. What the f++k?!

None of the above is going to kill me but the principle of the thing is pissing me off.. Rant over. Don't even know why I wrote this.

As you were.

Do you realise that this site is full of people that get ripped of by there Thia GF ,Thai wife mother in law, father in-law uncle no1,2,3,4,5.........& the family buffalo So i don't think it is the right place to get advice seen as though they get ripped every day of the week & put up with it for the sake of a 30 second orgasm now & again.

[AlexLah]

Hi,

Solution for 1: Travel on Monday morning as from the first flight available at 09:00 and travel back on Friday returning not later then 17:00

3: I also have to pay myself, nothing new here.

Alex

[kayo]

1) Why tell them it was travelling time? Quite simple you took all that time to do the work. Why tell them it travelling time?? At a weekend and OT as soon as you get in that car to travel you are working - regardless.

2) Go and see his boss AND HR and kick up and almighty stink - all payrises should be back dated to the start of the financially year. Don't p*ss about go to the highest person you can get a hold of.

3) Why ask and give them a choice?? Just put it in!!!

Jeez - grow some balls and get a grip! You need be a more assertive! You'll find they'll actually pay you some respect instead of just walking over you.

I agree with this guy.

The words "grow some balls" are strong words but in this case perhaps applicable.

Multi nationals are always cutting back cutting corners. I've wroked for plenty.

At the end of the day, you are either worth having as an employee or not.

If you are, then you need to dictate some reasonable terms.

The fact you've been with them for 3 years should work in your advantage - you have a track record.

Your terms and conditions certainly shouldn't get worse without your consent (and frankly, you'd be a fool to let a mutli national have your terms and conditions of work change for the worse. ie: if you were getting compensated before, that compensation should only increase, not disappear!

If you are worth the company's while, then I agree - Get more assertive. Don't take "no!" nor "Bureaucracy" as an answer.

If the company doesn't consider you worth while than seek employment elsewhere, where you will be appreciated.

So, yeah - and with all due respect - show them your newly grown balls.

[draggons]

Over the years worked for mainly US multi national companies, now work for myself. If you've got what they want, obviously you have or you wouldn't be there, lay it on the table tell them you want what's due or tell them to poke it.

From the moment you walk out your door till the moment you get back they pay for your time.

No OT? don't do OT.

Won't pay for new passport? sorry can't go to work passport full.

Don't know what it is you do but if it's anything to do with the oil & gas industry it's as busy as ###### just now, tell them you've had a better offer.

[mrbojangles]

It smells of constructive dismissal being tried here. Seen it before and had to go to tribunals.

[torrenova]

I agree with the bit about growing some balls. You have already let them walk all over you without so much as a whimper about not getting your pay rise in April, May, June etc.

[LaReina]

If you are salaried (which i assume you are) then you do not get OT.

If you do not want to travel on the weekend, then leave first flight out on Monday.

Why should the company pay for your passport? It is YOUR passport, not theirs.. get new pages added in at your embassy. The US offers this as a free service if your passport has not yet expired, and if your country does not, then whoose fault is that?

So they paid for new passports last year, and this year they do not.

... and is your pay not an expat pay which is more than if you were in the US, working the same job?

All in all are you griping because of the cut backs while you still have a job? OR would you rather they laid you off to save costs?

At the end of the day, if you do not like your job, you can always look for one with more fringe benefits.

[kayo]

LaReina, My royal highness ,

If he is travelling purely for business needs, or even mostly for business needs, than the company has every obligation to pay him for his passport. It would then also be a business passport, in most nations this means a passport with a lot more pages for visa stamps.

The logic: "Why should he fork out stupid amounts of money for a passport that gets filled up after ten business trips?"

And he's griping because some of the benfits are being taken away.

I think he's right to gripe, but wrong not to do anything about it.

[Boca]

Cheers for all the replies.

I've already been in and complained to senior management about all of these issues but seem to be getting nowhere. It's not that I'm sitting quite in the corner saying nothing about it without any "balls" so to speak . But it does seem like we have reached the end of the road as far as friendly negotiation are concerned.

Travelling on Monday morning or Friday night is not an option as 90% of our work is overseas so we are talking about a flight to India, Aus, Indonesia etc,, which is a full days travel each way.. For example a job from Mon- Fri would require to mob to site on Sat then demob on Sun, which under the great new rules, would get no OT. The person who said if you're salaried you get no OT, does not know what they are talking about here.

Yes,, passpost is full up with work visa stamps so has to be re-newed. It is a company expense. British passport has to be re-newed. Never mind, I am going to put in the claim anyway along with the next jobs expenses.. I did delay on not renewing, as a poster suggested, but this was effectively shooting myself in the foot as no passport means you can not go to site, so no chance at all to clock extra hours. Regardless, there are always ways to get back what I feel is due.

Payrise,, yep,, only the top man left to talk to about this, but going on previous experience, it doesn't look favourable.

[Boca]

If you are salaried (which i assume you are) then you do not get OT.

If you do not want to travel on the weekend, then leave first flight out on Monday.

Why should the company pay for your passport? It is YOUR passport, not theirs.. get new pages added in at your embassy. The US offers this as a free service if your passport has not yet expired, and if your country does not, then whoose fault is that?

So they paid for new passports last year, and this year they do not.

... and is your pay not an expat pay which is more than if you were in the US, working the same job?

All in all are you griping because of the cut backs while you still have a job? OR would you rather they laid you off to save costs?

At the end of the day, if you do not like your job, you can always look for one with more fringe benefits.

You're the sort of person my company would just love to have on the books. I'll put a good word in for you

[technocracy]

Some of you obviously believe that you are the MNCs property and can do with and to what they want! Sure if you want to be a corporate doggy and sit and beg when told then fine but personally I prefer to take the '<deleted> you and the horses you rode in on' approach. They can't sack you just for demanding your rights (pay rise back dating) or for wanting them to pay genuine business expense (passport). If you do your job as contracted then they have no grounds whatsoever.

Personally when I've been in previous situations I've caused an almighty amount of hassle and in one smaller company I worked I was even sitting discussing it with the MD - who I add was fully supportive and wanted me to keep him upto date with what was really going on as I had the balls to tell him. The basis is do your job beyond what is expected but in return expect what you ask for - nothing else. If they don't want to know then - <deleted>'em and find a new job - one that will give you what you want. MNC's are ruthless and will do whatever it takes to make money, you've got to be exactly the same.

So as Kayo so finely added "with all due respect - show them your newly grown balls."

Edited July 27, 2007 by technocracy

[LaReina]

I'm sorry I am American and worked for two different companies with manufacturing sites in Europe, the Americas and Asia.

As a salaried person OT was never a consideration...and this was when the economy was booming. There was absolutely no pity from any higher ups if you had to travel on a Sunday.

However, if you feel you have a case, then look in your company handbook/ Policy book/ Rules of the company or whatever they may have choosen to call it, which they should have issued you when you were hired, and see what they say about OT pay.

If no one has a copy of it here in thailand, then call HR in Corporate, and ask for either an online copy (if they have one) or for one to be sent to you.

In an era of mergers, aquisitions and layoffs.... your payraise is a valid gripe and the rest can label you as a complainer..

Sorry if I sound too "Corporate".

[soundman]

It smells of constructive dismissal being tried here. Seen it before and had to go to tribunals.

I agree with MrBoJ here. From what you have outlined your value to the firm seems to be on a negative slide.

If this is not the case - as others have pointed out - stand up for yourself man!

Soundman.

[chatette]

Sorry Boca, I agree totally with LaReina on this. Certainly, however, your salary increase shd be back-dated from whenever it was approved and it seems a bit dodgy if that's not happening.

[Chang_paarp]

Sounds like it is time to get the resume dusted off.

Ask the boss if will be a referee, or just list him to see if anyone checks the references.

[technocracy]

Corporate handbook??? . .. . please check paragraph 34.32.1.54.2b sub section 100 - will probably read - if any employee asks for rights or extra money ignore them until they go away.

Screw the handbook. Walk into the HR office and demand to the HR manager (even director - yes director) and look him straight in the eyes and tell him all about the problems and the fact that you've spoken to X (name names - don't protect no one!) and he says this and X says they don't care etc. He'll hopefully drag them over the coal and <deleted> them. Make sure you do not twist or add anything to the details as would Police Squad say, just the fact ma'am. Also while your in there express your concerns over the cost cutting going on and try find out what is happening.

If you're talking to the top man like you say - also just drop into the conversation that most of the staff are pissed off and in your opinion many are looking elsewhere - he'll soon see his arse! As lets face it to recruit a whole load of new experienced folks not only costs money but takes time and they'll no doubt end up paying them more than most of you are currently on.

Things like this piss me off no end and I won't take no for an answer from no man - as long as I know I am right. Most of the time it jobworths wanting an easy life, well wake them up from their snooze in the office.

Go for it and good luck!

Edited July 27, 2007 by technocracy

[Boca]

Sorry Boca, I agree totally with LaReina on this. Certainly, however, your salary increase shd be back-dated from whenever it was approved and it seems a bit dodgy if that's not happening.

You and LaReina don't know what is in the terms and conditions of my contract so you can not say to me that because I am salaried I am not entitled to OT or travel time.

I am the total opinon that a passport filled up with work related visa stamps is a company expense and should be paid for by then. I'm sorry you dont agree with this.

[a2396]

Alright, I've been at my present job for almost 3 years now and generally it has been not too bad. We do ok, but obviously I feel I should be getting paid more, but who doesn't? I work for a US multi national by the way.

Anyway, the last few months there has just been a combination of little things that haven't gone my way that makes me feel they're starting to take the piss a little bit. If you're still reading so far, here's what they are:-

1. No more OT pay for traveling on weekends. In fact no extra pay at all for traveling at weekends. So you travel to a job on a Sat or a Sun of your time and the company seems to think we should no longer be paid any extra for this. As we work regional in field service, this is a big loss and a frequent occurrence. All of our group are pissed off with this one.

2. My boss told me verbally that my payrise, which should have been from April onwards but was delayed for some technicalities, would get back dated, but today low and behold, the company are now saying they are not back dating.

3. A needed a new passport as my current one was full up with visa stamps (work related) so I asked about claiming this as a business expense (144 GBP for a new one). No was the answer. Ok, I'm a bit pissed but never mind. Anyway, I'm talking to a workmate and then he tells me just last year the company paid for his one. What the f++k?!

None of the above is going to kill me but the principle of the thing is pissing me off.. Rant over. Dont even know why I wrote this.

As you were.

If you are a so-called professional employee, you generally are expected to work extra hours for free. It's part of being a "professional" you know. This is the B.S. rationale & status that I had to put up with working in USA in most of my government related work. I presume you have no contract with your company that covers this situation. If not, you are screwed. You do whatever they want, whenever they want. You could look for another job or hope they don't outsource your present job to India or somewhere, where they can find cheaper labor.

[Boca]

Corporate handbook??? . .. . please check paragraph 34.32.1.54.2b sub section 100 - will probably read - if any employee asks for rights or extra money ignore them until they go away.

The so called corporate handbook states that:-

Any hours exceeding 40 hours in a week will be paid at rate of 1.5

However, any travel time above 40 hours will always be paid at straight time x1. (All domestic and international travel is paid at 8 hours)

So to all those budding HR folks out there, if 40 hours in a week have already been accumulated and I am required to travel back to home base on a Saturday, by my calculations, I'm due an extra 8 hours pay.

[a2396]

1) Why tell them it was travelling time? Quite simple you took all that time to do the work. Why tell them it travelling time?? At a weekend and OT as soon as you get in that car to travel you are working - regardless.

2) Go and see his boss AND HR and kick up and almighty stink - all payrises should be back dated to the start of the financially year. Don't p*ss about go to the highest person you can get a hold of.

3) Why ask and give them a choice?? Just put it in!!!

Jeez - grow some balls and get a grip! You need be a more assertive! You'll find they'll actually pay you some respect instead of just walking over you.

I agree with this guy.

The words "grow some balls" are strong words but in this case perhaps applicable.

Multi nationals are always cutting back cutting corners. I've wroked for plenty.

At the end of the day, you are either worth having as an employee or not.

If you are, then you need to dictate some reasonable terms.

The fact you've been with them for 3 years should work in your advantage - you have a track record.

Your terms and conditions certainly shouldn't get worse without your consent (and frankly, you'd be a fool to let a mutli national have your terms and conditions of work change for the worse. ie: if you were getting compensated before, that compensation should only increase, not disappear!

If you are worth the company's while, then I agree - Get more assertive. Don't take "no!" nor "Bureaucracy" as an answer.

If the company doesn't consider you worth while than seek employment elsewhere, where you will be appreciated.

So, yeah - and with all due respect - show them your newly grown balls.

Dream on. Most places I ever worked would show your newly grown balls to the door and wish you good-by. The order or the day with most workplaces government and private is to cut expenses. Unless you have some very unusual skills, or are in some other way viewed as an exceptional employee, they usually have no qualms about giving you the gate. I speak from 35 + years of working in goivernment related jobs in USA. Since the 1970's it has been chop, chop, chop. In the past few years, the retirement & benefits packages are now being whacked for many employees, public & private. Go in & tell them you got balls & see what they tell you.

[a2396]

1) Why tell them it was travelling time? Quite simple you took all that time to do the work. Why tell them it travelling time?? At a weekend and OT as soon as you get in that car to travel you are working - regardless.

2) Go and see his boss AND HR and kick up and almighty stink - all payrises should be back dated to the start of the financially year. Don't p*ss about go to the highest person you can get a hold of.

3) Why ask and give them a choice?? Just put it in!!!

Jeez - grow some balls and get a grip! You need be a more assertive! You'll find they'll actually pay you some respect instead of just walking over you.

I agree with this guy.

The words "grow some balls" are strong words but in this case perhaps applicable.

Multi nationals are always cutting back cutting corners. I've wroked for plenty.

At the end of the day, you are either worth having as an employee or not.

If you are, then you need to dictate some reasonable terms.

The fact you've been with them for 3 years should work in your advantage - you have a track record.

Your terms and conditions certainly shouldn't get worse without your consent (and frankly, you'd be a fool to let a mutli national have your terms and conditions of work change for the worse. ie: if you were getting compensated before, that compensation should only increase, not disappear!

If you are worth the company's while, then I agree - Get more assertive. Don't take "no!" nor "Bureaucracy" as an answer.

If the company doesn't consider you worth while than seek employment elsewhere, where you will be appreciated.

So, yeah - and with all due respect - show them your newly grown balls.

Dream on. Most places I ever worked would show your newly grown balls to the door and wish you good-by. The order or the day with most workplaces government and private is to cut expenses. Unless you have some very unusual skills, or are in some other way viewed as an exceptional employee, they usually have no qualms about giving you the gate. I speak from 35 + years of working in goivernment related jobs in USA. Since the 1970's it has been chop, chop, chop. In the past few years, the retirement & benefits packages are now being whacked for many employees, public & private. Go in & tell them you got balls & see what they tell you.

[backflip]

boca,

Tell your mom, hold your breath until you turn blue, and don't forget to pout!

[a2396]

1) Why tell them it was travelling time? Quite simple you took all that time to do the work. Why tell them it travelling time?? At a weekend and OT as soon as you get in that car to travel you are working - regardless.

2) Go and see his boss AND HR and kick up and almighty stink - all payrises should be back dated to the start of the financially year. Don't p*ss about go to the highest person you can get a hold of.

3) Why ask and give them a choice?? Just put it in!!!

Jeez - grow some balls and get a grip! You need be a more assertive! You'll find they'll actually pay you some respect instead of just walking over you.

I agree with this guy.

The words "grow some balls" are strong words but in this case perhaps applicable.

Multi nationals are always cutting back cutting corners. I've wroked for plenty.

At the end of the day, you are either worth having as an employee or not.

If you are, then you need to dictate some reasonable terms.

The fact you've been with them for 3 years should work in your advantage - you have a track record.

Your terms and conditions certainly shouldn't get worse without your consent (and frankly, you'd be a fool to let a mutli national have your terms and conditions of work change for the worse. ie: if you were getting compensated before, that compensation should only increase, not disappear!

If you are worth the company's while, then I agree - Get more assertive. Don't take "no!" nor "Bureaucracy" as an answer.

If the company doesn't consider you worth while than seek employment elsewhere, where you will be appreciated.

So, yeah - and with all due respect - show them your newly grown balls.

Dream on. Most places I ever worked would show your newly grown balls to the door and wish you good-by. The order or the day with most workplaces government and private is to cut expenses. Unless you have some very unusual skills, or are in some other way viewed as an exceptional employee, they usually have no qualms about giving you the gate. I speak from 35 + years of working in goivernment related jobs in USA. Since the 1970's it has been chop, chop, chop. In the past few years, the retirement & benefits packages are now being whacked for many employees, public & private. Go in & tell them you got balls & see what they tell you.

[Boca]

boca,

Tell your mom, hold your breath until you turn blue, and don't forget to pout!

Yeah you're right. I'm going to tell my mum about this. It's fcukin outragoues!

[Boca]

Dream on. Most places I ever worked would show your newly grown balls to the door and wish you good-by. The order or the day with most workplaces government and private is to cut expenses. Unless you have some very unusual skills, or are in some other way viewed as an exceptional employee, they usually have no qualms about giving you the gate. I speak from 35 + years of working in goivernment related jobs in USA. Since the 1970's it has been chop, chop, chop. In the past few years, the retirement & benefits packages are now being whacked for many employees, public & private. Go in & tell them you got balls & see what they tell you.

Maybe it was chop chop chop for you for taking up bandwith by posting emails and the likes 3 times when 1 will do.

No, joking aside, you're right enough in what you are saying but you got to stand up and make a noise if a liberty is being taken.

[a2396]

Dream on. Most places I ever worked would show your newly grown balls to the door and wish you good-by. The order or the day with most workplaces government and private is to cut expenses. Unless you have some very unusual skills, or are in some other way viewed as an exceptional employee, they usually have no qualms about giving you the gate. I speak from 35 + years of working in goivernment related jobs in USA. Since the 1970's it has been chop, chop, chop. In the past few years, the retirement & benefits packages are now being whacked for many employees, public & private. Go in & tell them you got balls & see what they tell you.

Maybe it was chop chop chop for you for taking up bandwith by posting emails and the likes 3 times when 1 will do.

No, joking aside, you're right enough in what you are saying but you got to stand up and make a noise if a liberty is being taken.

I did not intend to post a reply 3 times. Must be a glitch in the uploading. Good luck to him. It depends on how high up he is on the 'food chain" and what value he me be seen as having to his overseers. Back in the good old USA "professionals" who have no contract are fair game for being jerked around.

[LaReina]

Sorry Boca, I agree totally with LaReina on this. Certainly, however, your salary increase shd be back-dated from whenever it was approved and it seems a bit dodgy if that's not happening.

You and LaReina don't know what is in the terms and conditions of my contract so you can not say to me that because I am salaried I am not entitled to OT or travel time.

True..our CEO had a 35 million dollar golden parachute built into his contract, which stated that in the event of his death the monies would go to his kids.

So now all you need to do, is point out the section in YOUR contract that states they need to pay for your passport, and OT when you travel to your superiors.

Saw the handbook clause you wrote, but I am sure there are hourly people in your company, and being an AMERICAN company, I am pretty sure there is another clause for salaried people.

The US is the land of law suits, I am pretty sure they have all their basis covered as they refuse you your "basic rights" as an employee.

Three years with the company, I am sure you are qualified, and I am sure that you are a major asset to your company but there are no more "family" oriented companies in the US anymore. It is all about profits, outsourcing and making share holders happy. Do not think for one second there are no americans working for your company that would not relish the oppurtunity to fill your shoes and live abroad on an "EXPAT" package.

As for the guy in Laos urging you to be a man, and show your company "where the hammer hangs". What company in the dusty village of Vientienne are you working for? I am not sure if you are being sarcastic? Or actively trying to get him laid off..

[bkkmei]

I would usually agree for you to stand up for yourself as others have said. But I just want to check.... how do you feel you're perceived in the company and what are your ambitions for yourself? Before you go barging into HR or top guy's office, think a bit about what you may want to achieve longer term.

You don't want to seem to be a nitpicker / penny pincher / complainer (e.g. has anyone else groused out loud about lack of OT?) but of course you don't want to be a pushover either. Yes, I'd be incensed too if such things had happened to me but I'm not sure my reaction would have been beneficial to me longer term.

I think the company rulebook approach is good. Also, practically every multinational has a set of 'values' usually involving something like work/life balance, fairness etc. Look them up. Middle management usually don't give a toss, but surprisingly higher management (who were probably the ones setting up the values) do. Throwing these back in their face can be quite interesting.