Need Help

[elfe]

hi

yesterday went to the vet with one of my dogs for neutering. when i picked up my dog again the vet lady told me that she is sheltering a tiny poodle since two months which the owner does not pick up anymore nor could be contacted. she said she does not know what to do with the dog as it can only live in a small cage there. when i went to look at the dog it was misery big gobbly eyes with lots of sticky discharge on it, it is blind, can hardly breathe, makes sound while breathing and coughs sometimes. one front leg deformed. when the vet let the dog out of the cage it walked in circles as for being blind and then lay down on a soft cleaning rag as difference to the crate floor in the cage. i cleaned the eyes as the vet seemed to have neglected the dog as well since no one paid for it anymore... the vet told me when the dog arrived it had maggots in its jaw and she had to remove some teeth, also shave her dirty and fussy hair and clean her. she said now there is no cure for the dog anymore and it has to live like that!! when i asked if it has to be put to sleep she denied very much and said it can live well like that!!!!

as there the dog can only live in the cage and eat dry food which it vomits many times i took the dog with me... when i took her the vet suddenly said that i can use antibiotics and eyedrops...

so here she is and she is a lot worse than i thought first after eating (soft food) she has huge problems breathing, she cannot sleep lying down because then she cannot breathe. i cleaned her eyes thoroughly and cut off all the dirty hair around. i gave her a little transport box where she can stay in and feel safe, though open and she can roam around as well. she is such a miserable sight sitting there with nose on the floor trying to sleep but can hardly breathe.

since yesterday i give her augmentin syrup and eyedrops and good food of course, she has good appetite but it takes her long time to eat of course.

she's about 7 yrs old the vet said.

anyone have advice how i can improve the condition of the poor thing, especially the breathing. the vet said it is dry cough and comes from the heart. i'm not so sure about that as she makes sound like there is fluid or discharge in the throat/lungs, also she has a bit nose discharge.

i keep her in the bathroom at the moment so she has peace and quiet and i thought maybe the steam of hot water could help?

any help very much appreciated

[elfe]

just took a few more pics...

[BambinA]

anyone have advice how i can improve the condition of the poor thing, especially the breathing. the vet said it is dry cough and comes from the heart. i'm not so sure about that as she makes sound like there is fluid or discharge in the throat/lungs, also she has a bit nose discharge.

I don't know what's wrong with the dog but i will give you some information

The causes that make dogs get dry cough ;

A)Heart Worm disease

B)Tracheo bronchitis

C)Allergic pneumonia

Drug

1)Antibiotic - Augmentin dose 13.75/kg 2times a day

2)Mucolytic as Acetyl-cysteine as flumucil ( 1 sachet /dog ) 2-4 times a day

3)Antitussive / Cough suppressant as Dextromethorphan 2 mg/kg 2-4 times/day

4)Corticosteroid as prednisolone 0.5-1 mg /kg bid

If the dog has a prob as /B/ or /C/

I would give 1/2/4 and then 3 later

or 1/4 and Bromhexine HCL

i keep her in the bathroom at the moment so she has peace and quiet and i thought maybe the steam of hot water could help?

Warm and damp air makes Upper Respiratract get soothe and less irritate 'n constrict ..so it may helpful in your case abit

Edited July 29, 2007 by BambinA

[elfe]

thanks very much bambina, i will try...

[Tywais]

she's about 7 yrs old the vet said.

anyone have advice how i can improve the condition of the poor thing, especially the breathing. the vet said it is dry cough and comes from the heart. i'm not so sure about that as she makes sound like there is fluid or discharge in the throat/lungs, also she has a bit nose discharge.

The doctor may be referring to pulmonary edema which is heart related but causes a build up of fluids in the lungs.

[sbk]

Elfe. although I have no advice to offer I just have to say bless you, you are a very kind and generous person

[elfe]

The doctor may be referring to pulmonary edema which is heart related but causes a build up of fluids in the lungs.

thanks tywais. do you know if this could be cured and maybe how?

[sbk]

Elfe, check out the chart on this page which may help you evaluate your dogs symptoms:

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proce...000/PR00031.htm

[Tywais]

The doctor may be referring to pulmonary edema which is heart related but causes a build up of fluids in the lungs.

thanks tywais. do you know if this could be cured and maybe how?

A radiological image would be needed to determine if it is heart related to determine atrial enlargement. Bambina will certainly know what this means. However, one site discusses the issue here with possible solutions > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FD...ept/ai_80532260

[Nienke]

Hi Elfe,

My first feeling after reading your post and based on the symptoms you described was aaaaargggghhhh distemper and in an advanced stage! My second thought is get her to another vet on your island and have her checked for distemper, lungs, heart (possible X-rays are needed), heartworm etc. Also how much the maggots have done damage. It was in her jaw, so maybe they have gone inside.

Why I think that is from a story an owner told me yesterday: his cat went missing. A couple of days later it came back completely dirty, big wound on the hindpaw and full with maggots. To the vet of course. There it turned out that the maggots had migrated to the liver, according to that vet. (how that is possible so fast, i don't know) Nothing could be done to safe the cat anymore and it was euthanized.

I strongly advice against self medication as you don't know what this poodle bitch has. When given the wrong med's you can make things worse, for example if her liver is involved, and you state that she vomits the food out.

The poor animal is already so much suffering.

What kind of vet treats an animal like that anyway?

BTW, a blind dog will use its nose and won't walk necessarily in circles. When walking in circles I think more in the direction of brain damage or inner ear problems.

Anyway, you are really such a wonderful, warm and loving person for doing such a kind thing for this dog. She knows. I can pick that up from the expression on her face on the pic's where she is in the travel crate

Don't let the vet costs stand in the way, I'll pm you about that.

Nienke

[elfe]

dear nienke, thank you so much for your kind words, advice and help offer. you don't know what this means to me.

as for walking in circles you might very well be right, also as she holds her head strangely. i cleaned the ears, lots of black smear there and still more inside.

as for distemper, this was one of my thoughts as well. that is also why i give her augmentin, another dog which i took in recently with distemper symtoms and problems using her hindlegs properly, improved unbelievably quickly after this medicine. she is now a crazy playful puppy which still falls down a lot but otherwise is very fit, active and strong.

just as i'm writing this now i heard chica the little poodle make strange sounds in the bathroom as like she's trying to bark and she even scratched at the door!! went inside to find her a bit more active than before and she came climbing on my lap when i went down to her. this was really surprising and gives some hope, as for all day she was sitting on a shelf in my shower and looked so miserable and i thought of putting her to sleep:( even she has lay down completely on a towel just now for some seconds at least...

will take her to another vet tomorrow, latest the day after tomorrow and ask him to do all possible tests on chica, he has even an x-ray machine there. let's see what he will say...

[Nienke]

dear nienke, thank you so much for your kind words, advice and help offer. you don't know what this means to me.

as for walking in circles you might very well be right, also as she holds her head strangely. i cleaned the ears, lots of black smear there and still more inside.

as for distemper, this was one of my thoughts as well. that is also why i give her augmentin, another dog which i took in recently with distemper symtoms and problems using her hindlegs properly, improved unbelievably quickly after this medicine. she is now a crazy playful puppy which still falls down a lot but otherwise is very fit, active and strong.

just as i'm writing this now i heard chica the little poodle make strange sounds in the bathroom as like she's trying to bark and she even scratched at the door!! went inside to find her a bit more active than before and she came climbing on my lap when i went down to her. this was really surprising and gives some hope, as for all day she was sitting on a shelf in my shower and looked so miserable and i thought of putting her to sleep:( even she has lay down completely on a towel just now for some seconds at least...

will take her to another vet tomorrow, latest the day after tomorrow and ask him to do all possible tests on chica, he has even an x-ray machine there. let's see what he will say...

When there is case of an ear infection the dog will hold its head tilted to the side of the infection, when there's brain involvement the head is tilted the other way around. Doesn't sound as brain problems, though, more as problems with the ears.

Animals can be really miserable when neglected and finally give up (And who wouldn't under such circumstances). I won't be surprised that little Chica was in the stage of giving up when still at the vet.

Obviously she understands that with you she can count on love and care And that's is what she was asking for when climbing on your lap. Finally .... a gentle stroking hand and a soft spoken word. After how long ...?

Animals are very amazing creatures. And I do believe they know and understand much more than many of us, humans, want to believe.

Hope that Chica gets better very soon. Please, don't focus too much on the fact that she is blind. Blind dogs are very capable to adapting to their situation. It would be way far worse when they couldn't smell anymore.

Nienke

[MrSnrang]

I'd euthanize it, spare it from the suffering.

[Jet Gorgon]

Gods bless, Elfe. At least she feels some love if nothing else.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[Chantal]

Hope all goes well Elfie. At least this dog knows that somebody loves him/her. You are being wonderful!

[MisterMan]

Elfe,

YOu are a better expat then me. Wow!! Why would the vet not want to euthanise it? Well if I lived in Samui i would want to know which vet was lacking the compassion to

1.take care ofthe dog better, ANTIBIOTICS ARE CHEAP HERE

2. and was to warped to see the dog suffering.

Terrible. Such a heartwarming story to hear that she is feeling better.

Thank you a

[Nienke]

Yeh, Elfe, one day further. How is she doing now? Is she feeling a bit better?

Nienke

[elfe]

hi thanks for warm replies

so today i went to another vet with chica. he first couldn't say much as he said he does not know the history of this dog. then he listened heart and lungs and said the sound is normal. then i asked him to xray to see the heart. and it showed the heart is very big and it seems it is pressing at the lungs so that is why she has such difficulties breathing. the eyes will not improve he said but i should give eyedrops. actually i feel that she is enjoying the eyedrops! i got a name of heart medicine which i had to buy at pharmacy, actually it is a bloodpressure reducing medicine?! she will get it from this evening. i should continue with augmentin as well and come back in one week to see how she is then. heartworm test he could not do because no test kit there.

i should also give (what i already do) vitamin b as her brain is probably damaged, the walking in circles and strange head bending show that...

the vet also guessed that chica had almost given up herself being always alone in the cage with no contact or petting in her miserable state. myself i have seen once a spaniel at the shelter which was brought in for holiday but never been picked up again. the first two or three weeks the spaniel was so happy and excited when someone passed his box but hardly ever anyone would stop and spare a second for him. after a few weeks he grew very quiet and later gave up,you could see in his eyes that something inside of him had died. i don't know what happened to him as i did not go there anymore then... the dog was not released as they still hoped the owner will come back...

chica seems a tiny bit better now, she is enjoying company, i can feel it a little bit, though no tail wagging or much coming to me from herself, but when she' s alone she sometimes barks in her strange weak voice and scratches at the door and when i'm inside talking and petting her she seems content. today in the car she seemed to enjoy the cool aircon and when i ate a pizza while driving she started her barking and went wild for little pieces of pizza i should watch her weight very carefully though...

the eyedischarge is reduced very much now and hardly anything comes out and she seems a wee bit better altogether as well and shows little more activity, so there is hope in my opinion...

[Nienke]

Wonderful, Elfe, that she's coming by! Even if it turns out she won't be around for long, you certainly are giving her a most loving last part of her life!

As for the heartworm testing, I thought that the blood can be checked for heartworm parasites under the microscoop as well?

Nienke

[elfe]

am so happy to be able to report that little chica has much improved over night!!

she did not want to stay alone in the bathroom anymore and so i let her come out carefully with not many dogs around here in the house. she walks around and lies down here and there and seems to be able to breathe lighter. she's not afraid of the others, lets them sniff at her and if one is touching her with his leg or so she growls a bit, but that is fine and i'm watching closely of course all the time.

she is much more alive today and i think like that she is not suffering much at least she is interested in her surroundings and even wagged her tail at me a bit today

[sbk]

How's she doing Elfe?

[elfe]

she is definitely better, walking around a lot, coming to me or following me when i talk to her, barking and scratching at door when she wants to come out. she is mainly in the kitchen but i let her come out abour 4-5 times per day for an hour or so and she roams around between the others. have to watch them all though and get them slowly used to each other, that she's not stepping on dogs who don't like it or others don't overdo it with her. she has become interested in her surroundings and good appetite, growls at others when they come to a bowl where she's at and begs when i'm eating with her faint barks. so if it goes on like that thatis fine.

but her breathing improved a bit as well. she has nainly problems after eating and drinking and then starts to walk in circles, i think due to lack of oxygen in her brain? her tongue turns purple then

hope this improves over time as well...

[elfe]

hi

now some time has passed and i have to admit that chica is not much better since. she has good phases where she is more active and wants to join and be with us here in the open room. she also can ly down most of the time if she likes and sleep but there are still many times where she can't and she is struggling hard to breathe. i feed her twice a day in small amounts holding her plate and after some bites she starts to run in circles as she has difficulties to get air. it seems to help a bit when i hold her frontlegs then and she can stand up. after she has gained breath again she takes the next bites and so on. she has very good appetite and that's good so she takes in all the medicine easily with her food.

i give her enapril, lasix, danzal, enzyme q10, vitamin b and augmentin. of course tiny amounts of all that as she is only 3,5 kgs. also no fatty or salted food.

it seems that she has gotten better altogether but that here is a stop now. it seems the heart is too big to let her breathe properly or that there is anything which narows her throat, but i think rather the first one.

the vet where i got her from said that she's been like that for at least 1-2 years and that they had tried medicines but nothing has helped.

her quality in life is almost inexistent and also she will stay blind what for itself would not be such huge problem but adds to her existing misery. she does not seek physical contact though likes to be here with all others sometimes.

now since yesterday morning she did not want to come out of the kitchen by herself, only lying around in there and also coughing more than before.

will let the vet make a heartworm test and see then... actually hope almost it will be positve so we have something where we can try to cure...

[Nienke]

Hi elfe,

I'm sorry that Chica still has such a big problem. Nevertheless, one thing is sure, you are giving her a wonderful last part of her life.

Nienke

[elfe]

hi nienke, thanks...

yesterday went to the vet for heartworm test - positive. also from the x-ray it shows that the right heart is too big and that there are probably worms. but both vets do not recommend to kill the adult heartworm as the risk would be too high for chica... as she is too old one vet said he would not do it at all and especially in small breed the death rate is high from treatment because the dead worm might then block her valves.

the other vet would do it if i insisted and before she could get the injections she would have to be prepared with medications for two weeks.

if she would survive this treatment it would relieve her a lot of her problems she has now.

so i'm very unsure

[Nienke]

That's certainly no an easy decision. She isn't that young anymore, and from what I've understood she was beside the heart problem not in good health.

And even if she survives the treatment, I don't think she is cured as the worms most probably have done already considerable damage to the heart.

Curious what Bambina's opinion is on this one.

Nienke