Alcoholism And Alcohol Abuse

[Neeranam]

What is the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse?

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

taken from http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

[Jersey_UK]

What is the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse?

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

taken from http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

IMO that about sums it up.

For a long time I wanted to be an Alcoholic (everyone needs an ambition!), but no matter how much and how often I drank or how badly I behaved I never got addicted to alcohol. (I am however addicted to Ciggarettes - if I was anywhere near the same with Booze I would be scared witless).

I have never been a social drinker by choice, I can a have just a few drinks, but I much prefer to be in a social setting where the idea is to get totally smashed on booze and then just see what sh#t happens (hey, I am a brit!). I treat it kinda like crack That's why I LOVED coming to Thailand

But I rarely drink nowadays - mainly because I have other things that take up my time, it also takes too much out of me, and also if I am honest it does get kinda boring. I guess life just moves on.

Kinda puzzled though why I never ended up craving alcohol. and never got a beer belly despite regularly drinking my own weight iin beer for around 20 years........probably have worms

[robitusson]

Kinda puzzled though why I never ended up craving alcohol. and never got a beer belly despite regularly drinking my own weight iin beer for around 20 years........probably have worms

Did you grow up in a culture which doesn't propegate the disease model of addiction? Or if you did, did you not hear about it or dismiss if you did?

These are probably the reasons why you where able to successfully limit your drinking after drinking excessively and harmfully for so long.

Have a read of this;

................................................................................

1. Nearly all lay people in the U.S. agree that alcoholism is a disease, because that's what is taught in school. But, although 90% of Americans agree with the idea, what this agreement means to them varies all over the place. This depends on personal attitudes and cultural background, among other things. Almost no researchers would simply assent to the idea that alcoholism is a disease, although some are in sympathy with the thrust of this approach. The people who most spiritedly promote alcoholism-as-a-disease are staff at private treatment centers and the small minority of all alcoholics who recover through AA. (You should examine my book, "Diseasing of America.")

2. Alcoholism is not a disease. To an extent, it is arbitrary whether it is called a disease or not. However, everything disease advocates mean to indicate by this label is wrong, to wit (a) the genesis of alcoholism is biological and is inherited, (b ) alcoholism follows a set pattern, inevitably progressing from bad to worse, (c ) we have treatments (medical in nature) that deal effectively with this disease, and so on. My site is filled with material to show these assumptions are wrong.

3. More critically, treating alcoholism as a disease has a negative impact. Those cultures that most regard alcoholism as a disease have the highest alcoholism rates (see my article "A moral vision of addiction"). Treatments geared towards alcoholism as a disease have uniformly the worst success (see my article, "Recovering from an all-or-nothing approach to alcohol").

This is because they ignore individual differences and motivations and sell patients a bill of goods (based primarily on the treatment staff's personal experiences). That we continue to sell this failed product as a modern scientific advance is a tribute to long-standing American attitudes that grew up during temperance, which laid the groundwork for the American view that alcoholism is inbred and uncontrollable and that abstinence is the only answer to alcohol problems.

4. You correctly indicate that judges sentencing people for substance abuse is pretty futile. But not quite as futile as treating them. A number of studies, including a government sponsored trial of court interventions, have found that DWI defendants and street inebriates sentenced to treatment and or AA fare worse than those given judicial sanctions! (My article, "Research issues in assessing addiction treatment efficacy: How cost effective are Alcoholics Anonymous and private treatment centers?" Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 25, 179-182, 1990, will be put on-line some time this year.)

What is more, these coercive policies, and particularly forcing sentencees and inmates to attend AA, have been uniformly found to be unconstitutional (the latest such case to attract attention was in New York). Yet, the majority of those entering treatment are under some compulsion to do so, through EAPs, Medicaid or other government social services program, or court order (both civil and criminal). There is no possibility of reversing this, because it satisfies both hardliners who favor criminal justice solutions and softliners who feel treatment is best <my article, "AA Abuse," will be put on-line soon). The ABA has been among those most active in advocating greater treatment and greater coercion into treatment. A special 1994 report it issued made no mention of constitutional questions while espousing greatly expanded coercive treatment (see my book chapter, "Assumptions about drugs and the marketing of drug policies").

5. We have a sorry state of affairs, to which the legal system is contributing greatly, which forces disease treatments on people in a way that is both ineffective and unconstitutional.

Edited July 30, 2007 by robitusson

[PeaceBlondie]

Robitusson thinks AA is wrong. He's entitled to his opinion. My son was in AA for many years, and fell off the wagon and climbed back on several times. It helped him in certain ways at certain times. He surely knew the program, having memorized most of the Big Book. I don't care if Robitusson's sources are correct, and I really don't care if AA is provably the most successful method of 'treating' this condition, whether it's a disease or a nasty habit or whatever.

If I ask "Now where do we send my 26 year old drunk of a daughter?" or "where should all 3 of my sisters have sent their husbands?" the overwhelming answer from the know-it-alls and the know-nothings will be AA. Is there no other treatment plan? Does AA work just because 98,898 drunks say it does?

[Neeranam]

(You should examine my book, "Diseasing of America.")

Your book?

Please keep on topic, robittson. You're a man obsessed. We had this debate already about whether alcoholism is a disease or not, and you lost - accept it like a man! You're acting like a spoiled little kid who had a bad experience of AA.

If I ask "Now where do we send my 26 year old drunk of a daughter?" or "where should all 3 of my sisters have sent their husbands?" the overwhelming answer from the know-it-alls and the know-nothings will be AA. Is there no other treatment plan? Does AA work just because 98,898 drunks say it does?

There are other treatment plans PeaceB. There are many places you can send your daughter to detox, but you can't make her sober up. You can only pray that she gets fed up with it and finds a good recovery program like AA.

[robitusson]

If I ask "Now where do we send my 26 year old drunk of a daughter?" or "where should all 3 of my sisters have sent their husbands?" the overwhelming answer from the know-it-alls and the know-nothings will be AA. Is there no other treatment plan? Does AA work just because 98,898 drunks say it does?

It's very difficult to help without knowing the full story of the person. I think even the most ardent of AA supporters will admit that there are many AA members and people who are persuaded to go to AA that are not alcoholic. The fact that laymen/women regularly diagnose people, they often know next to nothing about, as diseased does not help in understanding who is at serious risk from drinking problems. Almost anyone can be an "alcoholic" as defined by some AA members.

The reason I mention this is because I don't know who has defined your daughter as a drunk. Is this a professional opinion, a 12 stepper's "diagnosis" or your own feeling?

I would take my daughter to a doctor or specialist fully versed in all options and one who is not connected with the mainstream recovery industry for a proper diagnosis to begin with.

Edited July 30, 2007 by robitusson

[jitagon]

I have a close friend of some ten year's standing who goes from drinking lao khao from 8am until he passes out (at home i might add), but stops every year for the exact three month duration of khao pansah (buddist lent), not out of particular religious piety but to honour a promise to 'his mamma' to give it a break for the duration.

Disease? It's a self indulgent habit. Just keep walking past your local liquor store on your way home and find something more interesting and less self destructive to keep you occupied. And if it's your child, send on an adventure holiday. One of those ones up in the mountains with kayaking and stuff. De-tox DOES NOT WORK in the long run. Same as fat camp. It simply reinforces their self-absorbsion.

[garro]

I was in and out of treatment centers/AA from the age of twenty.

I think AA is great for some people but not for all.

When I gave up alcohol finally I also gave up being an alcoholic.

I personally don't agree with the disease model of alcoholism but if it works for some people who cares.

[Thaddeus]

First things first .... I'm dumb.

Now that is out of the way, isn't this a fairly simple of the difference of terminology.

An alcoholic craves alcohol, 24/7 ... an abuser of alcohol craves the attention that alcohol gives him/her the balls to go seek it, in their situation they are not addicted to alcohol, they are addicted to the communal effects.

[garro]

First of all Thaddeus....you are not dumb.

I think labels, such as alcoholic, can be very powerful things.

While many problem drinkers have found solace in seeing themselves as 'alcoholic' and found strength in a fellowship of other alcoholics it is not true for everyone. I reached a stage where seeing myself as one was no longer helpful and was in fact making things worse.

I think AA is great and it certainly has helped many but it is not the only way and either is the 'disease model of alcohol addiction' the only truth. One thing I do agree with AA on though is that complete abstenence is the only cure for serious alcohol abusers.

[Jersey_UK]

Kinda puzzled though why I never ended up craving alcohol. and never got a beer belly despite regularly drinking my own weight iin beer for around 20 years........probably have worms

Did you grow up in a culture which doesn't propegate the disease model of addiction? Or if you did, did you not hear about it or dismiss if you did?

These are probably the reasons why you where able to successfully limit your drinking after drinking excessively and harmfully for so long.

Oooops, didn't realise this would be one of those threads

I appreciate that for some / many AA is a big help, and I do not intend to knock anyone who goes down this route. Each to their own.

But, as the question was asked ..........when I grew up the definition of Alcoholic was pretty much someone sleeping rough with a bottle of Meths or someone who sat at home drinking a bottle of scotch a night and who needed to drink in the morning. Anyone not at this level but who "drank too much" (defined vaguely) was "A Pisshead" (AKA a drunken &lt;deleted&gt;).

I guess "Pissheads Anonymous" doesn't have the same ring

But obviously life even here has moved on, and the degree of drinking that was pretty much normal is now called......."Binge Drinking" (and is apparently frowned upon - hence it being given a name )

Well known sayings Temps Passé:-

Jersey's biggest export? = "Empty Bottles"

Definition of Jersey? = "80,000 Alcoholics clinging to a rock"

and my own being "if you walk out of one pub and can't see TWO others, then you have one eye closed"

Edited July 30, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[robitusson]

(You should examine my book, "Diseasing of America.")

Your book?

Please keep on topic, robittson. You're a man obsessed. We had this debate already about whether alcoholism is a disease or not, and you lost - accept it like a man!

Personal attacks don't change the facts of what actually occured Neeranam. What I very successfully pointed out was that:

1) the disease model is highly contested by professionals and there is far from a consensus on it being universally accepted,

2) that there are widely divergent opinions even among those who do accept it on what it is

and 3) the 1930s AA model, as one of many disease concepts, is ridiculously outdated at best.

Accept those points "like a man" Neeranam.

It's always all or nothing with you, isn't it? Win or lose, accept or deny. There can't be any in-between or else your 12 step philosophy falls like a house of cards.

You're acting like a spoiled little kid who had a bad experience of AA.

Spoiled children point out facts and inconsistencies, do they?

Considering AA's proven dismal recovery rate, I'd imagine most experiences people have had with AA have been bad.

I know you value AA highly. Good for you. Just don't get upset when others, who are less religiously involved with it, observe it more acutely than you do.

finds a good recovery program like AA.

5% of members recovering constitutes a good programme?

I have a close friend of some ten year's standing who goes from drinking lao khao from 8am until he passes out (at home i might add), but stops every year for the exact three month duration of khao pansah (buddist lent), not out of particular religious piety but to honour a promise to 'his mamma' to give it a break for the duration.

Disease? It's a self indulgent habit. Just keep walking past your local liquor store on your way home and find something more interesting and less self destructive to keep you occupied. And if it's your child, send on an adventure holiday. One of those ones up in the mountains with kayaking and stuff. De-tox DOES NOT WORK in the long run. Same as fat camp. It simply reinforces their self-absorbsion.

Good example of how culture can help define the drinking habits of people. In cultures where the disease model meme is propegated that's where people have the biggest problems moderating or giving up.

treating alcoholism as a disease has a negative impact. Those cultures that most regard alcoholism as a disease have the highest alcoholism rates. Treatments geared towards alcoholism as a disease have uniformly the worst success

Two nutters on the thread now.

That's it Neeranam. Go ahead and insult those who disagree and question the status quo.

Perfect illustration of my earlier point that AA does not care about all those with drinking problems, only those who subscribe to the 12 step doctrine.

Edited July 31, 2007 by robitusson

[No beleeeeve!]

As a psychotherapist, I have never believed in the "disease model" to define alcoholism. I do not believe there is a genetic contribution to what makes a person drink too much. There may be genetic differences among people for how the body physically reacts to alcohol consumption, but not predetermined genetics that make a person run to a liquor store and buy a bottle everyday.

Allowing a person to say they have this disease, my experience has shown me, gives the alcoholic an excuse to blame the condition on instead of taking personal responsibility for it. So many times I have been told "But I have a disease, don't you understand this?"

To be honest, most alcoholics are self-centered, selfish, and need psychotherapy for the other events in their life that made them feel the need to get lost in alcohol. Again, I formed this opinion after working with thousands of psychiatric patients over the last two decades who had substance abuse issues as a primary or secondary diagnosis. I wish there was a quick and easy pill to give to cure it, but there isn't (Antabuse is a treatment, not a cure).

[dob310870]

What is the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse?

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

taken from http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

I think that alcohol abuse and alcoholism are very closely related. Alcoholism and the abuse of it will create a craving for alcohol. They will both result in ill health if continued. The inability to limit drinking is also common in both decriptions as is physical illness when drinking stops. A "functioning alcoholic" (I use the term in relation to the post only) will require alcohol to feel normal (or to temper delayed tremors) and will often drive whilst over the legal limit to do so. I think that the two different descriptions regarding work/home/family responsibilties are only separated by the personality and state of mind of the drinker.

Once a physical dependancy has formed then some would classify this as alcoholism and this can happen surprisingly quickly. The craving for alcohol is not necessarily a desire to get drunk but purely to stop the withdrawal symtoms. It can become a vicious circle. The desire to stop drinking can be present, but the ability to physically "come down" is painful and can be frightening. Similarly to other addictions; the mental craving exists but there are also definately, inescapable, physical reactions. Nicotine is one of the most obvious addictive substances but caffiene also is addictive. Those of us who are used to consuming a certain amount coffee everyday would withdraw if this substance was taken away; diplaying various physical reactions (in my case headaches). Someone posted in this thread that, effectively, there is the choice to walk past the liquor store and go and find something more interesting to do. I agree with this to a certain extend. If alcoholism is a disease then it is certainly a mental illness. There are usually underlying issues invovled when someone gets on the path to abusing alcohol in the long term. There are also those that have just found that they have become dependant, physically, on the drug and find it impossible to stop. I can't say that I agree totally with the A.A. and there reliance on GOD. I believe that they are not taking control of there own behaviour. "One day at a time" etc. seems to me to be accepting that tomorrow I could be that horrible person that I was back on the drink again. The fact is that you are still the same person that you were before, you just don't drink anymore. I think alcohol is demonised too much. It takes too much of the blame. I fear has built-up amongst ex-drinkers. I have heard alcoholics say "if I touch another drink again, I will die". Why? Will your drink be laced with arsenic? It goes back to the inability to take control of our own actions. Is the only way you know how to not be an addict is to be a blameless victim? I think that a philosophical outlook would be best for some people who are thinking about the rest of their lives t-total. The alcohol is not and never was to blame; it just turns some people into idiots. Call it an allergic reaction and leave it at that.

Cheers

[bizzniz]

I'm a alcoholic for about 35 years, last two yer I drink 1-2 Liter/day.

After a long talk whit my self, several months I think.

I stop drinking the 5 February this yer.

After gone 6 weeks in the Minnesota model. Still try to go there for aftercare once a week.

Its the first time I ever tried to bee solver, and so far I have not taste alcohol since 5 February.

I go to AA sometimes, but It not give me so much and i not got the time to figure it out.

But i now AA is good to most people, and it can not harm to go there.

And next time I go to Bangkok I should go to the Swedish AA centre.

[dob310870]

I'm a alcoholic for about 35 years, last two yer I drink 1-2 Liter/day.

After a long talk whit my self, several months I think.

I stop drinking the 5 February this yer.

After gone 6 weeks in the Minnesota model. Still try to go there for aftercare once a week.

Its the first time I ever tried to bee solver, and so far I have not taste alcohol since 5 February.

I go to AA sometimes, but It not give me so much and i not got the time to figure it out.

But i now AA is good to most people, and it can not harm to go there.

And next time I go to Bangkok I should go to the Swedish AA centre.

Well done for making a positive change in your life. Do you mind if I ask; what was your choice of beverage? What were you drinking 1-2 litres per day of? I have some experience with dealing with the physical and mental aftermath of excessive drinking if you would like to message me. Liver health is very important to health and can also affect mood. The Liver is the only organ in the body that can rejuvinate (up to a certain point of damage - that is why I ask what you drank). Almost everything that enters our bodies goes through our Liver. It has a function in many processes, including mood, fat burning and bloodsugar. After so many years of doing one thing; it is good to concentrate on something with equal vigour. It can be very rewarding to take control of your life and start to see and feel that you efforts are being rewarded. I would be happy to send you some information.

[garro]

As a psychotherapist, I have never believed in the "disease model" to define alcoholism. I do not believe there is a genetic contribution to what makes a person drink too much. There may be genetic differences among people for how the body physically reacts to alcohol consumption, but not predetermined genetics that make a person run to a liquor store and buy a bottle everyday.

Allowing a person to say they have this disease, my experience has shown me, gives the alcoholic an excuse to blame the condition on instead of taking personal responsibility for it. So many times I have been told "But I have a disease, don't you understand this?"

To be honest, most alcoholics are self-centered, selfish, and need psychotherapy for the other events in their life that made them feel the need to get lost in alcohol. Again, I formed this opinion after working with thousands of psychiatric patients over the last two decades who had substance abuse issues as a primary or secondary diagnosis. I wish there was a quick and easy pill to give to cure it, but there isn't (Antabuse is a treatment, not a cure).

As I said previously the 'Disease model' has no part in my recovery and I agree that alcoholics are self-centered and selfish. I do not however believe that psychotherapy is the way to deal with it either as I can't see how spending more time focusing on the self can possibly cure selfishness. Although I do not use AA I am sure that it is a lot more effective than anything psychotherapy can offer because at least you will meet people in AA that know what they are talking about and don't depend on you for their livelihood.

[Neeranam]

As a psychotherapist, I have never believed in the "disease model" to define alcoholism. I do not believe there is a genetic contribution to what makes a person drink too much. There may be genetic differences among people for how the body physically reacts to alcohol consumption, but not predetermined genetics that make a person run to a liquor store and buy a bottle everyday.

Allowing a person to say they have this disease, my experience has shown me, gives the alcoholic an excuse to blame the condition on instead of taking personal responsibility for it. So many times I have been told "But I have a disease, don't you understand this?"

To be honest, most alcoholics are self-centered, selfish, and need psychotherapy for the other events in their life that made them feel the need to get lost in alcohol. Again, I formed this opinion after working with thousands of psychiatric patients over the last two decades who had substance abuse issues as a primary or secondary diagnosis. I wish there was a quick and easy pill to give to cure it, but there isn't (Antabuse is a treatment, not a cure).

Quite simply, I believe that in real alcoholics' bodies natural opiates are formed when alcohol is added. This causes the cravings that make them do strange, insane things. One cure, or maybe treatment is 'naltrexone', a drug I took many years ago in a clinical trial.

Alcoholism maybe isn't a disease but a condition. Is an allergy a disease?

[bizzniz]

I'm a alcoholic for about 35 years, last two yer I drink 1-2 Liter/day.

After a long talk whit my self, several months I think.

I stop drinking the 5 February this yer.

After gone 6 weeks in the Minnesota model. Still try to go there for aftercare once a week.

Its the first time I ever tried to bee solver, and so far I have not taste alcohol since 5 February.

I go to AA sometimes, but It not give me so much and i not got the time to figure it out.

But i now AA is good to most people, and it can not harm to go there.

And next time I go to Bangkok I should go to the Swedish AA centre.

Well done for making a positive change in your life. Do you mind if I ask; what was your choice of beverage? What were you drinking 1-2 litres per day of? I have some experience with dealing with the physical and mental aftermath of excessive drinking if you would like to message me. Liver health is very important to health and can also affect mood. The Liver is the only organ in the body that can rejuvinate (up to a certain point of damage - that is why I ask what you drank). Almost everything that enters our bodies goes through our Liver. It has a function in many processes, including mood, fat burning and bloodsugar. After so many years of doing one thing; it is good to concentrate on something with equal vigour. It can be very rewarding to take control of your life and start to see and feel that you efforts are being rewarded. I would be happy to send you some information.

I was drinking 40% Vodka, my liver is fine, Doctor don't believe the result after two week the liver was like new and all other tests to.

I also get read of some other diseases, stomic work normally again, are not depressiv now, and some other stuff.

I also get down in weight, and belly is being smaller.

But I still feel like I will drink several times a day. also feel a emptiness and don't See what is the happiness in life are.

But all people ho knows tell me that will comes back. I working a lot in my firm and its little better when I'm not drunk.

Sorry for spelling and so, Swedish whit little school

[ding]

What is the difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse?

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

taken from http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

Mix 'em over rocks and you're on your way, I figure.