The Bad Old Days

[PvtDick]

Approaching my 15th anniversary of full-time living in Thailand, I was just reflecting on the major changes -- mostly for the better -- that have taken place here over the years:

1) Traffic. It is much, much better than it used to be. If you can't remember the time before the Thai-Japanese Bridge and Thai-Belgian Bridges (over the Silom and Sathorn intersections), or before the elevated tollway to the airport, or before the expressway system, Skytrain, and now Subway were installed -- you have no right to complain!

2) Taxis. When I arrived they were not metered, and many had no air conditioning.

3) Cinemas. No modern cinemas 15 years ago. Emperor Class, Gold Class...forget about it. We had the McKenna, Washington, and other old rat palaces.

4) Smoking. It was allowed everywhere. Now, no smoking in restaurants! Hallelujah!

5) Banking services. When ATM cards were first introduced, you had to search the town for one that matched your bank. Then, they had ATM pools where several banks offered reciprocal services at their machines. Now, all machines take all cards -- both local and international. We also have decent internet banking now.

6) Airline services. In the old days, TG had a lock on all domestic flights. We now have a host of competitors who have both increased the quality standards and forced down airfares.

7) Overseas phone call rates. Now much, much cheaper than they used to be, with a number of options.

So, you won't catch me weeping into my beer (another one: we have a much better choice now than 15 years ago, when it was basically Singha, Kloster, Amarit, or go thirsty) about how great we had it in the "good old days".

Who's got some more?

[PvtDick]

Criminy! How have I forgotten TV? No cable TV in the old days...not even ITV! Just good (bad) old channels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.

[20yearsinthai]

I like The current coffee craze. There was a time when only thing available was nescafe. The days of nescafe as a luxury item have ended. Now there is fresh coffee at every gas station.

On the the traffic front--The once 3 1/2 hour bangkok/pattaya trip is now down to well under 2 hours.

[KevinN]

We used to come in on a C130 and the fare was nothing,can't get much cheaper than that,coarse that was 35-40 years ago.

[mbkudu]

I must agree with you Pvtdick. Thailand and especially Bangkok have improved immenslely. The newbies who have been here post Skytrain have no inkling of how bad it was traffic wise, and now there's even a subway. There was a time when the skytrain was just a fantasy and nobody believed the government would ever get it off the ground.

When I first arrived at Don Muang airport in 1991, there were two ways to get to town, get screwed by a taxi or get screwed by the 'limos', for 500-1000 Baht. Now the system with the Airport bus and taxi que is so fair and organised that it seems

un-Thai. People can say what they want about Thaksin, but the proof is in the pudding.

[PvtDick]

When I first arrived at Don Muang airport in 1991, there were two ways to get to town, get screwed by a taxi or get screwed by the 'limos', for 500-1000 Baht.

And don't forget also that at that time the baht was pegged at around 25 to the dollar. Overall, things are a lot cheaper now in hard-currency terms than they were back then.

Just remembered that we didn't even have aircon buses when I first got here...

[JimGant]

We used to come in on a C130 and the fare was nothing,can't get much cheaper than that,coarse that was 35-40 years ago. 

Ah, the herkybird shuttle. In country, one flew clockwise, the other counterclockwise, hitting Korat, Tahkli, Ubon, NKP, Udorn, and Don Muang. Call sign: Klong (how appropriate).

Fortunately, the ride was short, as I always hated troop seats. And if you didn't get mickeymouse ears, you'd be deaf for a few hours afer landing. But, yeah, the price was right.

[Ajarn]

I must agree with you Pvtdick. Thailand and especially Bangkok have improved immenslely. The newbies who have been here post Skytrain have no inkling of how bad it was traffic wise, and now there's even a subway. There was a time when the skytrain was just a fantasy and nobody believed the government would ever get it off the ground.

  When I first arrived at Don Muang airport in 1991, there were two ways to get to town, get screwed by a taxi or get screwed by the 'limos', for 500-1000 Baht. Now the system with the Airport bus and taxi que is so fair and organised that it seems

un-Thai. People can say what they want about Thaksin, but the proof is in the pudding.

Yeah, amazing improvements in so many ways in and around Bangkok. I actually enjoy driving around Bangkok now, once I figured out the improvements, especially just in the last 10 years with all the new roadways.... But have they fixed the southbound hiway from from Nakorn Sawan to Bkk?? I remember that section being the same, forever....

Air pollution in Bangkok has improved, too. No longer do you hear comparisons made with the air pollution in Mexico city, nor do you hear of embassies warning their folks that the air pollution in Bangkok was dangerous to children under 12...

I believe Chiang Mai is more deserving of that comparison now, during the dry season anyway...

General garbage is much better because there is now an organized grassroots system of recycling, with pretty good payouts to the hard workers, from what I've been told by a few (nosy farang!)

But, I don't see Thaksin as being a part of any of the good stuff. He has only created a larger gap between rich and poor.

I think credit should go to Chatichai Choonhaven, if anyone. He at least had an open buffet. And I liked his style

[Boon Mee]

Agree with all the improvements listed but it seems like nightlife was a little better back in "the old days". Anyone remember the Mississippi Queen in Pat Pong 1 and Loretta's in Soi Cowboy?

[walker]

Ah, you new guys! I remember my first trip to Chiang Mai in '66; I was just a boy (changed all that in a week!); there were only a dozen or so cars in the entire city and I'll guarantee that the population wasn't 20% of what it is now. Women would "spend time" with you, gladly & gratis, for the experience of sleeping with a 6'3" white guy with hair all over his body, which they found endlessly amusing. It is, indeed, different now. I've got more hair growing on my back & out of my nose, ears, etc., than on my head and any novelty of hanging out with me would be limited to seeing if they could kill the old guy with sex (maybe not such a novelty, after all). I guess I sorta do miss the "old days".

[walker]

Agree with all the improvements listed but it seems like nightlife was a little better back in "the old days".  Anyone remember the Mississippi Queen in Pat Pong 1 and Loretta's in Soi Cowboy?

I may be dating myself.....but how about Jack's or the San Francisco Bar? Someday I may tell you the story about the girl who picked up an egg.......

PS: Is Pvt "Dick" a private because he had a "dishonorable discharge"?

[Boon Mee]

Agree with all the improvements listed but it seems like nightlife was a little better back in "the old days".  Anyone remember the Mississippi Queen in Pat Pong 1 and Loretta's in Soi Cowboy?

I may be dating myself.....but how about Jack's or the San Francisco Bar? Someday I may tell you the story about the girl who picked up an egg.......

PS: Is Pvt "Dick" a private because he had a "dishonorable discharge"?

Where were those bars, Walker? BTW, saw that egg trick in more than Thailand.

[astral]

Criminy!  How have I forgotten TV?  No cable TV in the old days...not even ITV!  Just good (bad) old channels 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11.

But there was that excellet video shop of Suriwingse Road,

can't think of the name at the moment. Silver Bell!! It just came to me.

They even had BBC tv series on tape!!

Edited July 15, 2004 by astral

[lopburi3]

Approaching my 15th anniversary of full-time living in Thailand, I was just reflecting on the major changes -- mostly for the better -- that have taken place here over the years:

1) Traffic. It is much, much better than it used to be. If you can't remember the time before the Thai-Japanese Bridge and Thai-Belgian Bridges (over the Silom and Sathorn intersections), or before the elevated tollway to the airport, or before the expressway system, Skytrain, and now Subway were installed -- you have no right to complain!

2) Taxis. When I arrived they were not metered, and many had no air conditioning.

3) Cinemas. No modern cinemas 15 years ago. Emperor Class, Gold Class...forget about it. We had the McKenna, Washington, and other old rat palaces.

4) Smoking. It was allowed everywhere. Now, no smoking in restaurants! Hallelujah!

5) Banking services. When ATM cards were first introduced, you had to search the town for one that matched your bank. Then, they had ATM pools where several banks offered reciprocal services at their machines. Now, all machines take all cards -- both local and international. We also have decent internet banking now.

6) Airline services. In the old days, TG had a lock on all domestic flights. We now have a host of competitors who have both increased the quality standards and forced down airfares.

7) Overseas phone call rates. Now much, much cheaper than they used to be, with a number of options.

So, you won't catch me weeping into my beer (another one: we have a much better choice now than 15 years ago, when it was basically Singha, Kloster, Amarit, or go thirsty) about how great we had it in the "good old days".

Who's got some more?

While I tend to agree that many things have improved do not agree with a number of your items:

1. Traffic in Bangkok is worse than 10/20/30 years ago (although toll roads help those that can afford them and have access). And yes I can remember the old days.

2. Taxis are an improvement over pre meter days but have been going downhill for years in quality as they age. But agree not as bad as the open floorboards of yesteryears (yet).

3. Bangkok has always had good cinemas. I have not gone in many years so can't speak of today but I remember when Lido/Siam and the like were very modern. But you may be right that there was a long period of no improvement.

4. Agree! But doubt that I would have when still a smoker.

5. Do not have your high opinion of internet banking but agree banking has improved.

6. Airline service is just starting to really open up. TG price is higher than ever (still).

7. Agree that telephone service has seen a huge improvement.

To me, and touched upon by others, the choice of TV has been another area of improvement. Air quality has also improved (but there is a long way to go).

But the largest improvement I have seen is the attitude of government and semi-government bodies to the general population.

[walker]

Agree with all the improvements listed but it seems like nightlife was a little better back in "the old days".  Anyone remember the Mississippi Queen in Pat Pong 1 and Loretta's in Soi Cowboy?

I may be dating myself.....but how about Jack's or the San Francisco Bar? Someday I may tell you the story about the girl who picked up an egg.......

PS: Is Pvt "Dick" a private because he had a "dishonorable discharge"?

Where were those bars, Walker? BTW, saw that egg trick in more than Thailand.

Somewhere by the Viengtai....not that my memory is bad now...it was bad then; not really so bad as foggy

[thedude]

not 10 years ago you couldn't walk a block in the city without getting your face blackened and your throat all dry and grimy from sucking in those noxious fumes. air quality has definitely improved, but i think not from the vehicle population (which has in fact increased) but from better global emission standards. a greater percoentage of cars on the streets now were purchased in the last few years and have catalytic convertors installed. i think responsible car manufacturers like toyota and honda have to be thanked here for producing efficient low emission vehicles.

[john b good]

I must agree with you Pvtdick. Thailand and especially Bangkok have improved immenslely. The newbies who have been here post Skytrain have no inkling of how bad it was traffic wise, and now there's even a subway. There was a time when the skytrain was just a fantasy and nobody believed the government would ever get it off the ground.

When I first arrived at Don Muang airport in 1991, there were two ways to get to town, get screwed by a taxi or get screwed by the 'limos', for 500-1000 Baht. Now the system with the Airport bus and taxi que is so fair and organised that it seems

un-Thai. People can say what they want about Thaksin, but the proof is in the pudding.

mbkudu.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what has been said here I cannot agree in any way shape or form with your comment regarding Thaksin.

Most of the development that has taken place was well and truly either underway or planned long before he became the "head waiter"

This includes the skytrain, the subway, the new airport and a great deal more of the things that we enjoy today.

If credit is given where it is due Chuan Leekpai should have been mentioned as was Choonhaven.

Leekpai is (was) never ever portrayed as an absolute buffon or as someone who took on the job to feather his own nest.

Thaksin! I am sorry but the florists will all be dead and buried before would I give him a posy let alone a bouquet.

[wamberal]

All fair and interesting comments. But does anybody else miss the old Saigon Cafe and the characters who hung out there? Or the old Siam Intercontinental Hotel? Or when TG served Moet in economy class? The bad old days had their good bits too. Plus I was a lot younger then, and single, and had a fair bit of money to help me pig out on some of the naughty things of life.

[mbkudu]

John B Good and others regarding Thaksin, I'll agree yes and no. True, most of the projects, including the Skytrain were already on the drawing board but who knows how long it would have taken before they would have been put into progress under someone like Chavalit or Chuan. He's a rich ####### but at least he has had the power, money, influence or whatever it has taken to get things moving. Could you ever imagine Banharn Silpaarcha ever getting as far as

Thaksin? I didn't think so.

[Up2U]

Used to come in from Don Muang on a country road with lily ponds down the edges. And the traffic in Bangkok was like Saigon now - all motorcycles, with a scattering of cabs.

But in Pattaya there was (and still is) the Tahitian Queen.

So some things change, but the best stays the best!

(All that was late seventies)

[mbkudu]

Isn't it interesting how we all seek the unspoilt. Decades from now I'll be telling youngsters about the dirt roads in the Amazon, or the small one lane highways that crossed the Kalahari Desert. What happens when the whole dammed earth is covered in concrete!?

[Ajarn]

John B Good and others regarding Thaksin, I'll agree yes and no. True, most of the projects, including the Skytrain were already on the drawing board but who knows how long it would have taken before they would have been put into progress under someone like Chavalit or Chuan. He's a rich ####### but at least he has had the power, money, influence or whatever it has taken to get things moving. Could you ever imagine Banharn Silpaarcha ever getting as far as

Thaksin? I didn't think so.

Thaksin had nothing to do with ANY of the projects mentioned. He's only been in office for 3 years...They were ALL 'off the ground' long before Thaksin hit the scene. As a matter of fact, all of these projects got off the ground during the Chuan, Chavalit and Barnharn administrations....

What Thaksin has accomplished so far is to:

1. Destroy the new constitution.

2. Destroy any credibility or power of the National Counter Corruption Commission and the Election Commission

3. Manipulate govt policy so as to make UBC, ITV, AIS, Shin Corp huge profits (at consumers expense, as usual). Thaksin owns a majority stake in all.

4. Failed to investigate or explain sufficiently the deaths of over 2,500 Thai citizens in 2003, many of the murdered by the police....

5. Throwing around money in order to buy loyalty at elections. Sp far, the main effect has been to further increase personal debt, which Thaksin deals with by simply making money easier to get, thereby increasing the debt and forcing more reliance on more bail-outs from the government...

6. Gone back on every promise to have an open administration devoid of the Old Guard of Godfathers, Gangsters and Corrupt Officials. He also recently stated that there is no corruption in high places, it is limited only to low-level officials

5. Become Emperor.

[mbkudu]

Ok, but thailand is a better place now than it was 3 years ago.

[lopburi3]

Used to come in from Don Muang on a country road with lily ponds down the edges. And the traffic in Bangkok was like Saigon now - all motorcycles, with a scattering of cabs.

But in Pattaya there was (and still is) the Tahitian Queen.

So some things change, but the best stays the best!

(All that was late seventies)

Don't exaggerate. Airport road was a super highway back in about 1969 with divided four lanes. North of the airport it was still two lane country road.

The lily ponds is correct. All together a magic feeling riding into town. Hump back bridges on every road and taxies that knew no speed limit.

[Ajarn]

Ok, but thailand is a better place now than it was 3 years ago.

Well, there are surely mixed opinions about that, but, for me personally, life just gets better and better here..

But, Thaksin had nothing to do with that.

[walker]

Used to come in from Don Muang on a country road with lily ponds down the edges. And the traffic in Bangkok was like Saigon now - all motorcycles, with a scattering of cabs.

But in Pattaya there was (and still is) the Tahitian Queen.

So some things change, but the best stays the best!

(All that was late seventies)

or in '68, when the Nipa Lodge had the only hot water in Pattaya.... and a Kobe beef steak, stuffed with blue cheese was $4... of course, I made a little less then.

[wamberal]

How about the Country and Western Bar on the corner of Soi 19....tremendous spot...no hassling....minimal bar fine (100 baht...nothing if you had a few drinks)..pleasant girls, properly dressed. Many of the girls married farangs...it was that kind of place. And I got away with the cashier!!

[Ajarn]

a Kobe beef steak, stuffed with blue cheese was $4

More like Korat Buffalo with mildewy cheese at a farang price, I'd say

[maerim]

Ah nostalgia, I know one thing about nostalgia it's not what it used to be.

[john b good]

John B Good and others regarding Thaksin, I'll agree yes and no. True, most of the projects, including the Skytrain were already on the drawing board but who knows how long it would have taken before they would have been put into progress under someone like Chavalit or Chuan. He's a rich ####### but at least he has had the power, money, influence or whatever it has taken to get things moving. Could you ever imagine Banharn Silpaarcha ever getting as far as

Thaksin? I didn't think so.

Thaksin had nothing to do with ANY of the projects mentioned. He's only been in office for 3 years...They were ALL 'off the ground' long before Thaksin hit the scene. As a matter of fact, all of these projects got off the ground during the Chuan, Chavalit and Barnharn administrations....

What Thaksin has accomplished so far is to:

1. Destroy the new constitution.

2. Destroy any credibility or power of the National Counter Corruption Commission and the Election Commission

3. Manipulate govt policy so as to make UBC, ITV, AIS, Shin Corp huge profits (at consumers expense, as usual). Thaksin owns a majority stake in all.

4. Failed to investigate or explain sufficiently the deaths of over 2,500 Thai citizens in 2003, many of the murdered by the police....

5. Throwing around money in order to buy loyalty at elections. Sp far, the main effect has been to further increase personal debt, which Thaksin deals with by simply making money easier to get, thereby increasing the debt and forcing more reliance on more bail-outs from the government...

6. Gone back on every promise to have an open administration devoid of the Old Guard of Godfathers, Gangsters and Corrupt Officials. He also recently stated that there is no corruption in high places, it is limited only to low-level officials

5. Become Emperor.

My sentiments entirely Ajarn.

Thaksin had nothing, zero, zilch, sweet FA in getting the major projects off the ground.

And I wouldn't be giving too much credit to either "big jiew or the little man either"

In fact in my opinion 'big jiew' was the man responsible for the Asian financial crisis commencing 0n 02 July 1997.

This was after he hedged his bets on the baht and made a tidy little sum in the process.

Chuan is my man.

Might have been others but he also gets my vote in terms of honesty and integrity as well.