Adolf Hitler

[Richard W]

If you asked around in Thailand you would be hard put to find a Thai who knows anything about Jesus.

Who he was or whatever he was.

You possibly mean who knows that 'Jesus' is the same as พระเยซู. Otherwise, you're talking utter tripe.

[Bluecat]

If Thai, maybe the correct attitude would be to send an e-mail back explaining why any European would find this pseudonym offensive. I would think that European History is not taught in any depth within Thailand just as South East Asian History isn't taught in any depth in Europe.

I think history is not taught that much in Asia.

Whatever history we are talking about, Europe, Asia, China, Thailand,...

So, European history,...

[ThaiPauly]

My wife had never heard of AH I was stunned at the time, but then came to appreciate the comments made during this particular post, if they do not teach World History in the state schools in Surat Thani then it ain't her fault.

What I do find offensive however is a black car that regularly parks in the Villa Market car park on Suk Soi 33/1 which not only has a swastica on it but also a bloody picture of the f##ker. I really wanted to slash his tyres when I saw it. You can't put that down to ignorance can you?

[Bluecat]

You can't put that down to ignorance can you?

No.

Stupidity, sure.

And I'm trying to be nice,...

[rainman]

I occasionally see young thai men walking around with swastikas on their shirts. It may be offensive to people living in the US or UK, but you gotta understand that Thailand was an ally of Japan during WWII, so its not even half as bad to them as it may be to you. Just like Stalin may be offensive to some people because he killed millions, but not to South Africans. Why? He never did anything against them, so why should they care? I hope you get my point.

[Bluecat]

I hope you get my point.

No,...

[Totster]

I occasionally see young thai men walking around with swastikas on their shirts. It may be offensive to people living in the US or UK, but you gotta understand that Thailand was an ally of Japan during WWII, so its not even half as bad to them as it may be to you. Just like Stalin may be offensive to some people because he killed millions, but not to South Africans. Why? He never did anything against them, so why should they care? I hope you get my point.

As i understood it Thailand were allies with Japan because they didn't want to be invaded, not because they agreed with what the Japanese were doing...

[andyinkat]

I haven't read through this thread but I've noticed in the last few posts some comments and confusion about the swastika; I can contribute some information to clear that issue up.

The swastika is one of the oldest religious symbols in the world, going back into prehistory. It represents the sun's rays and it originated with the Aryans. Those Aryans who migrated west brought it to Celtic, Roman and other civilisations, but the symbol became most pronounced in India where it became one of the chief symbols of Hinduism.

Today it is still a very major symbol in India - you will see it associated with many Hindu, Jain and even Buddhist deities. With all the ahistorical misinformation the Nazis propagated about the Aryan Master Race the swastika was one detail they did get semi-right, although they reversed and tilted it for reasons best known to themselves.

I've spent the last two years in India and Nepal and I must confess it is hard to ditch the western associations with the symbol, but it is important not to diss it as a Hindu symbol as they had nothing to do with the Nazis hijacking a three millennia-old symbol for a couple of decades.

A particularly bizarre sight greets western visitors to Nepal. I was teaching in Kathmandu and was quite chilled to see on many school board signs two Hindu symbols in juxtaposition - a swastika alongside a six-pointed star identical to the Magen David, or Jewish Star of David. It's a coincidence - the Hindu symbol represents educational attainment and no Nepali would associate the images with the Holocaust.

BTW Wolf, Normandy was conquered by Rollo, a Viking chieften; it wasn't Saxon. However the great bulk of the 'Norman' invaders were mercinary nobility and adventurers from all over Europe (the greater proportion being from what subsequently became 'France') who responded to William the Basterd's offer of English land to anyone who'd contribute money and troops to his opportunistic adventure. You're right about the origins of English though, although it was heavily enriched by French in the aftermath of the Conquest, since French became the language of the Court.

[Bluecat]

The swastika is one of the oldest religious symbols in the world, going back into prehistory. It represents the sun's rays and it originated with the Aryans. Those Aryans who migrated west brought it to Celtic, Roman and other civilisations, but the symbol became most pronounced in India where it became one of the chief symbols of Hinduism.

You are right.

But it is a "vertical" swastika.

Not an inclined one.

The "aryans" made it inclined.

I mean Hitler and others,...

For reasons I can understand,

It happens every day.

In many places.

In many countries.

But I do not like it.

And hopefully, I'm not the only one,...

[KevinN]

And there might be some one named Benito Moselini[sp] Or Josef Stalin,and he killed more of his own people than Hitler did. so whats in a name?

I once red somewhere that American Henry Kissinger caused the most non-natural deaths during last century. Mainly by sending American soldiers to other countries to kill local people there. Is that really truth?

Nobody would put him on one line with Hannibal, Ceasar, Khan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and other mega-killers. He is one of the few American politicians who holds the respectable title of 'elder statesman'.

A stupid question maybe, but is genocide in historical perspective a matter of public relations? The 'great' Hannibal, the 'great' Ceasar, the 'very bad' Hitler, the 'very bad' Pol Pot, the 'decent and wise' Kissinger?

Henry Kissinger was actually not an American,,he was born in Fuerth Germany in 1923 came to America in 1938 and was naturialized in 43,,so he was basically a German.

And Joe Stalin made Hitler look like a girl scout when it came to killing folks.

There is genocide going on it the world today,,look what they are and have been doing for years in Africa, and not only killing other tribes,but eating them as well.

[john b good]

And Joe Stalin made Hitler look like a girl scout when it came to killing folks.

Maybe errelevant but then again Stalin was not Russian either was he.

[Bluecat]

Maybe irrelevant but then again Stalin was not Russian either was he.

Probably irrelevant.

Russian or not.

He made the world a "different" place.

For quite a long time.

Too late to judge.

Unfortunately,...

[350torana]

Stalin was from Georgia as Hitler was not German, but Austrian .

My wife also knows little about AH , she is well educated but just don't think they teach that much European history in Thailand. She also knows little about the Japanese occupation of Thailand or Asia. Alot more Chinese died as a direct/indirect result of Japanese invasion than what happened in the European theatre. Sure it wasn't an 'invasion' of Thailand but then the Czech Rebulic wasn't 'invaded' by Hitler either

[Richard W]

Nor did Bohemia and Moravia acquire any territory as a gift from the Germans. I found this account:

In May 1942 the Thai took control of the Shan region around Keng Tung. These "United Shan States" or "Original Thai States" were recognized by treaty with Japan in August 1943. Sayaburi (Xaignabouri, or Muang Ngoen until taken from Siam in 1903) and Champasak, Laos, and Siem Riep and Battambang provinces, Cambodia, were reattached to the Thai kingdom.

I've read elsewhere that the Thais had to fight for the Shan territory - it was not a gift from the Japanese.

[maerim]

Uncle Joe's real name is or was Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili.

This gentleman was studying to be a priest when he took the name of Stalin,some priest.

[paulfr]

I once red somewhere that American Henry Kissinger caused the most non-natural deaths during last century. Mainly by sending American soldiers to other countries to kill local people there. Is that really truth?

Nobody would put him on one line with Hannibal, Ceasar, Khan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler and other mega-killers. He is one of the few American politicians who holds the respectable title of 'elder statesman'.

A stupid question maybe, but is genocide in historical perspective a matter of public relations? The 'great' Hannibal, the 'great' Ceasar, the 'very bad' Hitler, the 'very bad' Pol Pot, the 'decent and wise' Kissinger?

Public Relations ??

Interesting observation.

Henry Ford said "History is bunk" because he knew

it was always written by the victorious. And they,

sadly, are not always the "good guys"

Robert McNamara said in a recent documentary about

his life that he believes, had we lost the Cold War, that

he would have been tried as a war criminal.

As for the all time killer list, Napolean is way up there

with French and Russian sacrifices to his ego.

And Stalin, it is my understanding, systematically

starved some 20 million of his own people with his

farm pricing policies and political purges.

Uhhhhgggg, I need a drink .......

[chanchao]

> You are right.

> But it is a "vertical" swastika.

> Not an inclined one.

I've also seen reversed swastikas around certain Chinese-Buddhist temples. You're welcome to make that distinction of course, but can you really blame the Thai or Korean kid with the swastika T-shirt to not make that distinction? Well you can of course, I suppose, but the point is: does he have to care about any sensibilities that people from half way across the world would have against it? And this is assuming that he would even REALISE that he's offending these sensibilities, which is most likely not the case. Is it your job to educate him? Or to try to get him to wear something else? What would your average Joe back home say if some Asian walked up to him saying a particular symbol he's wearing is offensive to him?

> But I do not like it.

That's of course fine. Personally I wouldn't even go so far as to call it 'ignorant'. It implies people the world over should be mindful about Euro-centric sensibilities, and if they fail to learn about this or act upon this then this makes them 'ignorant'? I can tell you right now that according to that definition there are 6 billion ignorant people in the world.

Don't know if I posted this link already to legitimate uses of swastikas: http://sukstalker.fotopages.com/?entry=159982

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Mr_Pedantic]

And Joe Stalin made Hitler look like a girl scout when it came to killing folks.

And Reinhard Heydrich made Stalin & Hitler look like angels.

[john b good]

Uncle Joe's real name is or was Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili.

This gentleman was studying to be a priest when he took the name of Stalin,some priest.

Minor correction....

Joe's surname (before he adopted Stalin) was 'Dzugashvili'

Leastaways thats the way it is spelt in the brochure that I got when I visited the

I. B. Stalin museum in Gori, Georgia.

The letter 'h' (3rd in) sort of got me as that would be less common in Georgia.

The museum is quite interesting to visit and has the house in which Stalin was born, in the basement of which they printed socialist liturature.

Stalin's personal railway carriage from where he directed some of the phases of the war is there also.

Stalin is still held in very high regard in Georgia particularly by the older folk who were grown up before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

There are statues of Stalin dotted all over Georgia in villages and towns.