The Democratic Convention and the Gaza Debate: Unity Under Threat

[Bkk Brian]

20 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Is the United States the country that has killed the most people in history?

 

 

 

The US has likely killed 40-50 million, likely on the lower end, in it’s entire 245 year History, as Explained here, which Translates to 160-200k a year!

How many people has America has killed in all wars in different countries?

Iraq- from 100,000 to 1 million deaths, depending on which estimate you go by.

Afghanistan-very difficult to say. The Pentagon refuses to count civilian deaths anymore.

Gulf War- most estimates around 50,000 deaths.

Central America- US supported dictatorships and the terrorist Contras killed over 300,000 in the 1980s. 200,000 of that was in Guatemala, an outright genocide vs Mayan Indians that Reagan backed with weapons, money, and training. In El Salvador, the US also bombed the nation from US bases in the Panama Canal Zone. So US responsibility for these atrocities is shared with the dictatorships. 

Vietnam- at least 1 million, some estimates double that. This includes by chemical warfare, Agent Orange and napalm, and also with mass torture, the Phoenix Program that killed at least 20,000.

Cambodia- 500-600,000 deaths. Some scholars argue what Nixon did constituted genocide. The Khmer Rouge also came to power because of Nixon and was later supported by Reagan.

US overthrows of other nations in the Cold War- difficult to add up but very high. Ass'n of Responsible Dissent, made up of former CIA agents, estimated 6 million deaths. In just one case, Indonesia in 1965, there were a half million deaths. Here blame is shared with the various dictator clients.

WWII- As Mr. Malik pointed out, here we are talking a defensive war, one against an undeniably evil enemy. So to lay blame on the US is false and unethical.
The three areas where the US gov't does share some blame is refusing to try to halt the Holocaust. The US could have offered refuge, or bombed bridges and railroad depots. Potentially one tenth of the deaths may have been halted.
The US also targeted German and Japanese civilians, killing at least 300,000, plus some civilians in occupied nations. These are not accidental deaths, but a deliberate policy of killing defense industry workers.
And the A bombs dropped on civilians, killing nearly 300,000. Most military men argued vs using the A bomb. Most scholars now agree it did not end or shorten the war. Japan surrendered because of the Soviets entering the war.

WWI-Neither side in this war were ethical, so how to lay blame? 

Philippines War- caused far more deaths than the Spanish American War. The lowest estimates are 200,000, including the use of concentration camps and waterboarding. Some estimates as high as 1 million.

"Indian" Wars- almost in all cases, US aggression. Worst than that was the starvation tactics, deliberate mass killing of the buffalo by the US gov't, which is an element of genocide.
The Native population in what is now the US was between 12 and 18 million in 1492. By 1900 it was 200,000. Most of those deaths were in colonial times, so blame mostly goes to the British.
Some believe in a form of genocide denial, blaming disease as "accidental." First, disease was sometimes deliberately spread. It was also more devastating because of deliberate starvation tactics. (See above.). And finally, if one goes into an area knowing people will die because you spread disease, you are guilty of their deaths. Even before Europeans and white Americans knew about germs, they saw and knew the obvious, that they brought diseases and spread them to Natives and Pacific Islanders. They were just as culpable as an AIDS infected person having unprotected sex would be today.

Civil War- here the blame should be solely on the Confederate aggressors who began the war. But they were legally still US citizens. 500,000 is the most widely used estimate.

California Indian Genocide- 120,000 to 300,000 deaths during the Gold Rush, including widespread enslavement of Indians. These were mostly done by vigilante miners' militias.

US Mexico War- 30,000 deaths.

War of 1812- 12,000 deaths. In both these wars, the US was the aggressor.

Slavery- deaths by the crushing of slave revolts should certainly count.

No the US is NOT the country that has killed the most people. That undignified award goes to this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for posting that. It makes for disturbing reading.

You are easily taken in when it involves lies against the US

[MalcolmB]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No the US is NOT the country that has killed the most people. That undignified award goes to this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

 

You are easily taken in when it involves lies against the US

Those countries killed their own people.

We were referring to countries that go out and kill other people in other countries.

Since WW2 (modern times) the USA leads this.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Those countries killed their own people.

We were referring to countries that go out and kill other people in other countries.

Since WW2 (modern times) the USA leads this.

Oh so your being selective in identifying deaths. Then you need to go to the list of actual war deaths, not the anonymous rubbish from quora

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

[MalcolmB]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh so your being selective in identifying deaths. Then you need to go to the list of actual war deaths, not the anonymous rubbish from quora

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

I don’t need to do anything. 
Three building get attacked in the USA and you are shocked.

But you guys have wiped out entire towns and villages in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan, Syria, Korea, Iraq etc etc.

 

Lot of blood on your hands. 
 

At home you are the Land of Mass Shootings.

 

That you commit these slaughters is bad enough, That you lie and deny makes it worse. 

[Jeff the Chef]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:58 AM, mdr224 said:

Source?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/12/israel-opt-us-made-munitions-killed-43-civilians-in-two-documented-israeli-air-strikes-in-gaza-new-investigation/

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/28/middleeast/gaza-us-munitions-rafah-strike-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html

 

If you require any more "sources" I can link you in to loads more.

 

Your welcome.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, MalcolmB said:

I don’t need to do anything. 
Three building get attacked in the USA and you are shocked.

But you guys have wiped out entire towns and villages in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan, Syria, Korea, Iraq etc etc.

 

Lot of blood on your hands. 
 

At home you are the Land of Mass Shootings.

 

That you commit these slaughters is bad enough, That you lie and deny makes it worse. 

I don’t need to do anything. 

 

Yes I can see that you have no problem spreading misinformation and lies.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, MalcolmB said:

Brilliant piece of whataboutism that one.

Mentioned everything except the millions of dead.

There is no "whataboutism" in my previous post at all.

 

The irony of you supposedly caring about "millions dead" is incredible, when you said you'd welcome the deaths of some 400 million people.  The irony of thaibeach being so "DISTURBED" by your little piece of prose is that he cheers on Putin and his war -- hundreds of thousands dead on both sides.

 

It must be a great room in your house, that trophy room, chock full of all your awards.🏆🏆🏆🤣🤡

[ChicagoExpat]

29 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Those countries killed their own people.

We were referring to countries that go out and kill other people in other countries.

Since WW2 (modern times) the USA leads this.

ALL of those countries' listings except for the Soviet Union's are since WW2.

 

And your fictional list of the USA's sins included lots of us "killing our own people."

 

You're not very good at this.

 

🏆🏆🏆

[ChicagoExpat]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No the US is NOT the country that has killed the most people. That undignified award goes to this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

 

You are easily taken in when it involves lies against the US

If there's a chance to support the wrong side, thaibeach is there.

[Bkk Brian]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:58 AM, mdr224 said:

Source?

There is no credible source to his fictitious claims of 17,000 killed children. 

[Bandersnatch]

Pete Buttigieg is always very impressive IMHO, a former naval officer who deployed to Afghanistan and a graduate of both Harvard and Oxford Universities. He was a Rhodes Scholar and graduated from Oxford with a first-class honours degree. 

 

Pete Buttigieg spoke at the Democratic National Convention.

 

Don't bother replying to this post unless you've watched the 8 minute video first

 

 

[Social Media]

A post making false claims has been removed.

 

From the landing page:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

 

An off topic video has also been removed along with a trolling meme. The topic here is:

 

 

The Democratic Convention and the Gaza Debate: Unity Under Threat