Do U Ever Feel U Are Banging Your Head Against The Wall?

[WaiWai]

i knew plenty of nelly gay guys back in vancouver. frivolity is pretty much a universally gay cliche.

So, you are saying that Thais are not so much the Blondes but rather the Gays of the world ?

neither

just messin' around, t.s.

[zaza]

I just wonder how difficult is it to have a normal conversation with thai people.If u ever go deeper in your thoughts or discussions you are left with a blank stare or on the internet its usually ...1 i have no idea 2 whatever 3 hehe laugh = i dont know confused? why do most of the girls i know on the net use these exact words..? are they taught in school if farang ask u difficult question say this!

My point is i talk with some thai girls on the net and i really do wonder do have a brain or do they use it?

example..1 girl ..our country is the best (they really know nothing about other countrys in the world, but why would they, THAILAND is the best) we have no war and no cold weather like u.....sorry where in western europe is the war? and do u know the 3 provinces in the south of thailand last i heard that was like a war!

now thats just 1 example i have many more, where it seems these people know nothing about what happens in the rest of the world.

Of course there is many intelligent thai people but there seems to be many who just dont use their brain or only care about thailand.

Honestly I will anwser you:

I have no idea

Whatever!

hehehe(lol)

[t.s]

the op is disgruntled because he cant get past "what are you wearing?"

[Naam]

You are going to get accused of being a troll.

he IS a troll!

[meemiathai]

The OP is fine! He asked a fair question. He was just saying what he felt. Posts here are going to change his mind. As simple as that.

[notasmartassknowitallfarag]

ASSUMPTIONS... so i am a troll who has never been to thailand cant speak thai and sit behind a computer screen to complain about thai people who i know nothing about. YES SO TRUE!!

most people are going way off track to my original post, i dont think they undertsand what i was trying to say,i was only asking a question to get some feedback but it seems in this forum if u say anything negative about thai people, we have the farangs here to protect them.

Let me clearly state i was not talking about bar girls, most of the people i was talking with i have actually meet before in thailand they are friends of mine who have normal jobs in bangkok, i was not boring them with euro history, or any war in the middle east, or psychology as a previous poster thought! ASSUMPTIONS again

I was just having normal conversations as i know these people, but it seems that if i wanted to get their opinions on thai subjects which went past shopping in siam paragon or eating food in a fancy restaurant they just could not do it...

Now these were just my experiences so im so sorry to upset the farangs here who would never have nothing said in a negative way about their beloved thailand..

I can close the matter now as i did get some good feedback from some people and i appreciate it. so i have finished with the matter but then again i suppose there will be the obvious backlash again....thanks i enjoy it.

[donna]

for what its worth, i largely agree with you notasmartassknowitallfarang (thats a mouthful). you were making an observation which was a generalisation, and many people here cant see past that.

i get frustrated every day over here but that does not mean that i dont love the country and it does not mean that i think that a whole nationality of people are stoopid.

[Richb2004v2]

I have often seen front page story’s on Thai newspapers that can be categorized as ‘And finally…’ story’s from the west.

i.e ‘and finally today a man found a carrot that looked just like Osam Bin Laden.’

This may say something about the Thai people.

[canadiangirl]

I thin the OP is asking alot of people he has just met very casually. And making some very broad generalizations based on his own limited experience.

Very few Thai people I know are willing to engage in a serious discussion (political etc) with someone they barely know. IME, these conversations are limited to peers, that they have known for many years. Its not unusual (either in the distant past and not so distant past) for people to be arrested or murdered for their beliefs. Why should they trust some farang they are chatting to on the Net?

Wow, good point sbk!

[canadiangirl]

The OP should try tracking down this guy: Pire Sudham. He wrotes books like Monsoon Country and Children of Esarn -- he is from Esarn -- and he was nominated for the Nobel Prize.

[donna]

oh i love Pira Sudhams books. lovely. he is one of many thai authors.

but remember that the OP is referring to people he meets online.

[Pepe']

Your desire is the source of your suffering. You suffer from yourself. Hope that helps.

Very well said...

[seonai]

I've worked in Thai newspapers and magazines for years and also taught monks at a university and most of the Thais I met in these places read both books and newspapers and were keen to discuss global issues all the time, they couldn't get enough of it. This thread really shows up what type of Thais most of you must be hanging out with

[lannarebirth]

The OP should try tracking down this guy: Pire Sudham. He wrotes books like Monsoon Country and Children of Esarn -- he is from Esarn -- and he was nominated for the Nobel Prize.

The recurring theme in Sudhams books is that the Thai education system addles the students minds. I enjoyed "People of Esarn" and "Monsoon Country"(though less), but "The Force Of Karma" was pure crap.

[jetjock]

I've worked in Thai newspapers and magazines for years and also taught monks at a university and most of the Thais I met in these places read both books and newspapers and were keen to discuss global issues all the time, they couldn't get enough of it. This thread really shows up what type of Thais most of you must be hanging out with

I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. I think that some of the posters should try to cultivate friendships with some of the higher educated Thai's if they are interested in heavier discussions of world issues.

Almost all of the Thai's in my social circle are very highly educated and well versed in many global issues. I think the important thing that must be kept in mind when discussing these type of issues even with educated Thais is that unlike most of our Western culture, Thai's tend to be more respectful and avoid controversial issues if possible due to their cultural traits of respect and saving face , etc. The fact that some Thais may choose not to engage one in a debate or discussion about some political, religious, or other type of worldly subject does not mean that they do not have opinions on them but may simply prefer to talk about lighter things or 'whatever' .

[girlx]

re: the books thing, i just wanted to point out that i often buy books as presents for thai friends and they eat them up! they aren't avoiding reading because they are ignorant or they don't like it, they just can't really afford books, and where i live there is not even one place they could buy them anyway!

[chrisspursbkk1]

You are going to get accused of being a troll.

he IS a troll!

Your replies must make you the most NEGATIVE person on this forum, Congats! 10/10A*+++

[JR Texas]

You are going to get accused of being a troll.

he IS a troll!

Your replies must make you the most NEGATIVE person on this forum, Congats! 10/10A*+++

I have worked very hard for that distinction and now you are giving it to another person. I object!

[donna]

the truth of the matter is that most 'visitors' to thailand arent normally going to be mixing with the more educated people of thai society who are interested in holding any kind of intelligent conversation. i think that the OP was talking about people he has met on chat rooms etc, so you will find that these people arent normally going to stimulate your

BRAIN.

i am a member of a couple of thai websites like that (NOT this one) and the comments coming from most people are quite childish and are usually one liners.

to the OP: i think its just something you have to deal with when on these chat rooms. if you want to find more intelligent conversation, you need to look in other areas.

[sbk]

re: the books thing, i just wanted to point out that i often buy books as presents for thai friends and they eat them up! they aren't avoiding reading because they are ignorant or they don't like it, they just can't really afford books, and where i live there is not even one place they could buy them anyway!

ditto. My husband and our staff love to read but books are unavailable. And, when available (se-ed in Tescos in Samui has books in Thai girlx) pretty expensive for most people.

[EaglesGift]

I don't know any Thai people who can't afford books.

[Losangels]

I don't know any Thai people who can't afford books.

There are quite a few low to middle income Thai families that have difficulties making ends meet. A book or magazine may be considerd as luxury compared to the necessity such as paying for food, rent, electricity.

Many have to pawn valueable possession like jewelry at the start of the new school year for their

kid(s) to pay for tuition, school uniform, books, etc.

[chinthee]

Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. It is defined as the viewpoint that "one's own group is the center of everything," against which all other groups are judged.

Plain and simple. Thais are some of the most ethnocentric people I have ever lived among (and I've lived widely in the corners of this world). Educated or uneducated. Rich or poor. book-owning or not. Isaan farmer or Bangkok Hi-So. Universally this is the impression one gets in Thailand. Add to this trait the added elements of apathy or disinterest toward the acquisition of knowledge of most things outside Thailand and that is the cocktail consumed by most of the populace here in LOS. Again, I'm not complaining. I don't hold it against them. I like most Thais and think they are very nice people generally. I just don't try to engage anyone in deep conversation about things outside Thailand for the most part, in Thai or English. And, I'm excluding pockets of academia, etc.. I'm speaking generally. As I mentioned earlier, I like the ease of living here. There is nothing malevolent or distasteful about this Thai trait. It is what it is.

One can argue that ethnocentrism is perhaps deserved in cultures that have rich world influencing or dominating pasts or presents, British Empire, American Empire, Chinese Empire, Roman, etc.. But the Thais are just plain inward looking because...well, just because.... Again, nice people. No complaints.

[uptou]

i think that part of the reason i like thailand is because the locals leave me alone & are respectful of my space.it rarely feels like they are prying,or trying to get their claws into me.they dont seem to give a to$$ where ive been on my travels,& why should they.politeness is very important here.the world is a crazy place nowadays,it pays to be suspicious in a world where money & success,is god.sometimes i get bored with "where do you come from?",etc,but i can't have it both ways.i think they are generally wary of foreigners,call it shy i suppose,but most of the working class people i know in the uk,dont really want to talk about the worlds problems when getting together for a few drinks, or ten.

[JR Texas]

Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. It is defined as the viewpoint that "one's own group is the center of everything," against which all other groups are judged.

Plain and simple. Thais are some of the most ethnocentric people I have ever lived among (and I've lived widely in the corners of this world). Educated or uneducated. Rich or poor. book-owning or not. Isaan farmer or Bangkok Hi-So. Universally this is the impression one gets in Thailand. Add to this trait the added elements of apathy or disinterest toward the acquisition of knowledge of most things outside Thailand and that is the cocktail consumed by most of the populace here in LOS. Again, I'm not complaining. I don't hold it against them. I like most Thais and think they are very nice people generally. I just don't try to engage anyone in deep conversation about things outside Thailand for the most part, in Thai or English. And, I'm excluding pockets of academia, etc.. I'm speaking generally. As I mentioned earlier, I like the ease of living here. There is nothing malevolent or distasteful about this Thai trait. It is what it is.

One can argue that ethnocentrism is perhaps deserved in cultures that have rich world influencing or dominating pasts or presents, British Empire, American Empire, Chinese Empire, Roman, etc.. But the Thais are just plain inward looking because...well, just because.... Again, nice people. No complaints.

Since I am very familiar with this, I would like to add some things:

Ethnocentrism: basic in-group/out-group (we vs they) distinction.......virtually universal among the human species and most species (no doubt an evolutionary-based, adaptive response).....the difference being that we are cultural aware or potentially aware of it). There are several different definitions of ethnocentrism, but this one is widely accepted in the literature.........it is fundamental.

Prejudice/discrimination (negative actions based on race/ethnicity) and xenophobia (unwarranted fear of outsiders) are results of ethnocentrism. Genocide is the most extreme response.

Charismatic figures (e.g., TOXIN, Hitler) can easily increase the level of ethnocentrism prevalent in populations.....often leading to war against "outsiders."

Thais are extremely ethnocentric, but so are Americans. Prejudice and discrimination are rampant in Thailand. Xenophobia is, unfortunately, rising.

[chinthee]

I'll give one personal example. On the historic 9/11, I was sitting in my Phuket home with my then Thai girlfriend watching in real time the horrific events in New York on CNN/BBC, etc.. I was frantically calling friends who worked on Wall Street, etc.. Of course my Thai GF was initially horrified like everyone else. That lasted not long.

I had to run out for something quickly, and when I returned, I found her watching Thai soaps, or something similar. In the following days, when I tried to discuss the tragedy with her, she would usually turn the topic to Muslim insurgency in the south, or other such things.

Generally, she had the interest and attention span of a mule regarding foreign events, even tragic in mass proportions, yet, she would ask me daily to check the Phuket Gazette for what was happening locally each day. She was educated, not a BG.

She read English, and I had the internet available all the time. She never got on any website that wasn't in Thailand. She showed no interest in events or news outside Thailand unless they had to do with more tourists coming to Phuket or something.

[meemiathai]

I've worked in Thai newspapers and magazines for years and also taught monks at a university and most of the Thais I met in these places read both books and newspapers and were keen to discuss global issues all the time, they couldn't get enough of it. This thread really shows up what type of Thais most of you must be hanging out with

I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. I think that some of the posters should try to cultivate friendships with some of the higher educated Thai's if they are interested in heavier discussions of world issues.

Almost all of the Thai's in my social circle are very highly educated and well versed in many global issues. I think the important thing that must be kept in mind when discussing these type of issues even with educated Thais is that unlike most of our Western culture, Thai's tend to be more respectful and avoid controversial issues if possible due to their cultural traits of respect and saving face , etc. The fact that some Thais may choose not to engage one in a debate or discussion about some political, religious, or other type of worldly subject does not mean that they do not have opinions on them but may simply prefer to talk about lighter things or 'whatever' .

That doesn't prove the OP's observation being wrong. The thais you pointed at are a minority whilst maybe in other countries the average people would be more willing or are more capable of discussing more indepth issues. We have to admit that different races have different characteristics but the point is it doesn't simply mean which is better.

[WaiWai]

Charismatic figures (e.g., TOXIN, Hitler) can easily increase the level of ethnocentrism prevalent in populations.....often leading to war against "outsiders."

Thais are extremely ethnocentric, but so are Americans. Prejudice and discrimination are rampant in Thailand. Xenophobia is, unfortunately, rising.

I was thinking the same.

Charismatic figures or (perhaps ?) the "consensus" of a culture can choose to foster or reject this tendency. Sometimes it is selectively manipulated, such as in China (the "middle kingdom"), where people are being allowed more contact with the "outside" but this is tempered by the constant reinforcement of a belief in innate Chinese superiority and the encouragement of the long-standing hatred towards Japan. (Though the Hello Kitty culture is, simultaneously, pervasive ).

The USA is also a highly nationalistic country (this is a measurable trait) and what many Americans learn and know about their own history and government by far outweighs what they learn and know about other countries. The current US administration is actively promoting an "us" & "them" mentality and some other countries, including Australia, are following suit. (See the recent shameful debacle involving the Indian doctor who was labelled a "terrorist" for an example of how easily such tendencies can get out of hand).

I notice some Thais seem to subscribe to a view that some "Westernization" of their culture (whatever "the West" is, exactly) is likely to make their youth somewhat fast & loose but is an inevitable and necessary influence. This kind of attitude - a distorted one - can, as JR Texas says, very easily be channelled into outright xenophobia. Which direction Thailand will take in the future is a crucial one.

[Gumballl]

I'll give one personal example. On the historic 9/11, I was sitting in my Phuket home with my then Thai girlfriend watching in real time the horrific events in New York on CNN/BBC, etc.. I was frantically calling friends who worked on Wall Street, etc.. Of course my Thai GF was initially horrified like everyone else. That lasted not long.

I had to run out for something quickly, and when I returned, I found her watching Thai soaps, or something similar. In the following days, when I tried to discuss the tragedy with her, she would usually turn the topic to Muslim insurgency in the south, or other such things.

Generally, she had the interest and attention span of a mule regarding foreign events, even tragic in mass proportions, yet, she would ask me daily to check the Phuket Gazette for what was happening locally each day. She was educated, not a BG.

She read English, and I had the internet available all the time. She never got on any website that wasn't in Thailand. She showed no interest in events or news outside Thailand unless they had to do with more tourists coming to Phuket or something.

Your observation is interesting. When the 9/11 attacks occurred, I was living on the West Coast of the US (California). While the events were unfolding, I was glued to the TV. However during the aftermath, my mind was occupied with other things. I mean, I still thought about the tragedy, but my mind was principally spent thinking about other issues (e.g. the world did not stop, and I still had to go to work, pay bills, etc).

I do not fault Thais (or any other nationality) for feeling somewhat ambivalent or disinterested in foreign matters. When I lived in California, the East Coast was a "million" miles away.

I think the well-to-do Westerners have too much free time and thus can spend their leisure time reading or watching (on television) the misery that surrounds them. I think they gain confidence in their own lives by seeing others suffer. In poorer countries, where the majority of the people are far from being "well-to-do" the basics of life kick in... survival, food, medicine, etc.

You can't expect a Thai to give one iota about conflicts (err, wars) in Central Africa, or care the the US has imposed an economic embargo against Cuba, or that a shoddy bridge collapsed in the middle of the US. Frankly they don't care. It's out of sight, it doesn't affect them, and thus I believe that they shouldn't have to be obligated to keep abreast of these events.

At the end of one's life it does not matter how many toys, money, or knowledge you have gained. When you die, you are dead; no more, no less, than a stupid mental retarded peasant (from your own country).

[WaiWai]

We have to admit that different races have different characteristics but the point is it doesn't simply mean which is better.

Right on !

I have been wondering if I need to devise some sort of multiple choice general knowledge quiz to administer to Thais to exclude the chance of my hanging out with this "wrong" type. Is there a simpler way of identifying them ? Might I inadvertently have been rubbing shoulders with some of these lowly creatures ?

(BTW - might be better to say "cultures" than "races")

Edited August 4, 2007 by WaiWai