Do U Ever Feel U Are Banging Your Head Against The Wall?

[gburns57au]

It seem's to be you that keeps mentioning the bad points. Whats bad in discussing the lack of access to good media sources and information. I didn't mention any of those things - thus, it would be my understanding that you are talking drivel in your misguided belief that everything in the world is okay.

A cat in scunthorpe, who really cares, if you want to use extremeties to defend a poor argument then as they say "up to you".

mmmm Lets see....draconian censorship, mushrooms, Thai TV not being a source of current world affairs....these are some quotes you have made Mr Toad.

My point was and is that the Thais are very aware of world events but have difficulty in articulating to non Thai speaking people because the average Thai doesnt have the English or other language skills to hold such conversations. It is not rudeness or ignorance and it certainly is not culture.

Nice try to twist it....by saying I am mentioning bad points....yes I mention them, BUT I am not the one that said them initially.

My extreme example was nearly as good as your sarcastic answer.....and I quote....Oh silly me, I forgot to mention education. Yes, of course thats where it has to start.

Now if you will excuse me, it is after 2am here so I am retiring for the night

[canadiangirl]

On intellectual conversations in Thailand:

my Thai friend D. is one of those people who charms EVERYONE around him instantly, very funny, sweet, fun guy to be around. But he's definitely kind of "frivolous", only talks about hair, clothes, men, parties, -- not a serious bone in his body.

He was being courted by this older farang man called T. T was a plastic surgeon, trained at the best U.S. schools, pretty fit for an older guy (I think he was 40-50, D was 20), spoke good Thai, had a really good heart, really down to earth, smart guy. He's one of the people who convinced me that not all sex tourists are creepy losers -- this guy was a perfect gentleman, interesting, pleasant to be around. He does reconstructive plastic surgery on war victims, so he has worked in all the major conflict zones of the world: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Africa, etc.

All three of us were having coffee one night. T starts telling a story: "That reminds me of when I was working in the Cambodia refugee camps at the fall of the Pol Pot regime ---- " Dav interrupts him by placing a hand on T's arm and mine, and says in a confessional tone "I really want some ice cream!"

[gburns57au]

On intellectual conversations in Thailand:

my Thai friend D. is one of those people who charms EVERYONE around him instantly, very funny, sweet, fun guy to be around. But he's definitely kind of "frivolous", only talks about hair, clothes, men, parties, -- not a serious bone in his body.

He was being courted by this older farang man called T. T was a plastic surgeon, trained at the best U.S. schools, pretty fit for an older guy (I think he was 40-50, D was 20), spoke good Thai, had a really good heart, really down to earth, smart guy. He's one of the people who convinced me that not all sex tourists are creepy losers -- this guy was a perfect gentleman, interesting, pleasant to be around. He does reconstructive plastic surgery on war victims, so he has worked in all the major conflict zones of the world: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Africa, etc.

All three of us were having coffee one night. T starts telling a story: "That reminds me of when I was working in the Cambodia refugee camps at the fall of the Pol Pot regime ---- " Dav interrupts him by placing a hand on T's arm and mine, and says in a confessional tone "I really want some ice cream!"

In Oz we call them Blondes......

You said it right at the start....frivolous...etc...

There are people like that in all societies.....they are not, thankfully, representative of the average.

[JR Texas]

On intellectual conversations in Thailand:

my Thai friend D. is one of those people who charms EVERYONE around him instantly, very funny, sweet, fun guy to be around. But he's definitely kind of "frivolous", only talks about hair, clothes, men, parties, -- not a serious bone in his body.

He was being courted by this older farang man called T. T was a plastic surgeon, trained at the best U.S. schools, pretty fit for an older guy (I think he was 40-50, D was 20), spoke good Thai, had a really good heart, really down to earth, smart guy. He's one of the people who convinced me that not all sex tourists are creepy losers -- this guy was a perfect gentleman, interesting, pleasant to be around. He does reconstructive plastic surgery on war victims, so he has worked in all the major conflict zones of the world: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Africa, etc.

All three of us were having coffee one night. T starts telling a story: "That reminds me of when I was working in the Cambodia refugee camps at the fall of the Pol Pot regime ---- " Dav interrupts him by placing a hand on T's arm and mine, and says in a confessional tone "I really want some ice cream!"

In Oz we call them Blondes......

You said it right at the start....frivolous...etc...

There are people like that in all societies.....they are not, thankfully, representative of the average.

They are children in adult bodies.

[sukanyacondo]

hmm... i was thinking about this the other day too. i have a lot of intelligent thai friends- but they are intelligent in sort of a social way. they are brilliant at reading people, making conversation, pick things up quickly, etc. but one thing they are NOT is curious enough to be actually introspective or examine their life or culture beyond what is fed to them from birth. that is definitely from their style of education. also the fact that most of them can't ever go see the world outside of thailand so why bother thinking too much about it! also, it could partly be a language barrier as my thai isn't great.

I asked my wife if she thought that if someone defaced a pic of the king and could be given 10 years in jail or someone who murdered somebody and was given 8 years in jail was correct and she thought it was ok.

I asked her why and she said she thought it was " what was the reason for doing the crime" ie no reason to deface the kings picture but maybe reason for murder.

I find it interesting and ask many questions like this but do not understand many of the replies.

[slapout]

How many times have I asked for the instruction manuel for a appliance etc and my Thai wife asks why you want that. We have over 50 thai story books (never read) numerous travel guides (for Thailand) read, Travel guide for 5 other countries (not read) The local newspaper is purchased about 2 times a month (check out lotto) I have noticed a general disreguard for other countries but not their people, Princess D comes to mind and the Thai following of her death etc. If I mention a political debate from a newspaper I get this blank look but if I mention an advert for a sale at the mall she is all ears. I just chalk it up to me being a grouchey old man with out dated intrests, books, discussions,newspapers, etc

[englishoak]

I have to say in general most thai friends I have are easy going and not ones for very serious conversation but then again most of my friends in the UK are the same. However occasionally my UK friends will engage on a serious or deep topic and usually surprises the level of conversation is stimulating and most have a personal opinion and informed view.

That has never happened with my Thai friends not even during the Thaksin saga. A few comments sure but no formed opinions or deep informed views. In fact it's very normal for the conversation to be moved on to food or something light very quickly.

The main difference seems to be Thais just don't like to be too serious about anything for too long, no bad thing as life is hard enough for most I guess. Awareness about whats going on in the world is not high on the list and you rarely see Thai's reading the papers, although they sell enough so I assume they do that at home.

It dosn't bother me in the slightest and it is obviously a cultural difference thats all.

How many of you have been told by the wife "you think too much" or " you too serious" or " mai pen rai" to something that bothers you ? Well we do, and can be, and it dos'nt matter but hey thats a cultural thing for us too.

"Variety Is The Spice Of Life"

Edited August 3, 2007 by englishoak

[OlRedEyes]

My wife has basically stopped having conversations with her friends, 90% of whom are 'educated'. Teachers, business people (not stall-owners) etc. Her reason: "They are boring. They cannot talk about anything except money and shopping".

[jayjayjayjay]

I just wonder how difficult is it to have a normal conversation with thai people.If u ever go deeper in your thoughts or discussions you are left with a blank stare or on the internet its usually ...1 i have no idea 2 whatever 3 hehe laugh = i dont know confused? why do most of the girls i know on the net use these exact words..? are they taught in school if farang ask u difficult question say this!

My point is i talk with some thai girls on the net and i really do wonder do have a brain or do they use it?

example..1 girl ..our country is the best (they really know nothing about other countrys in the world, but why would they, THAILAND is the best) we have no war and no cold weather like u.....sorry where in western europe is the war? and do u know the 3 provinces in the south of thailand last i heard that was like a war!

now thats just 1 example i have many more, where it seems these people know nothing about what happens in the rest of the world.

Of course there is many intelligent thai people but there seems to be many who just dont use their brain or only care about thailand.

Sorry, but what language are you typing in!!!

[WaiWai]

The main difference seems to be Thais just don't like to be too serious about anything for too long, no bad thing as life is hard enough for most I guess. Awareness about whats going on in the world is not high on the list and you rarely see Thai's reading the papers, although they sell enough so I assume they do that at home.

I think this is true. There is an awareness that bringing certain topics into the conversation would bring unpleasant/uncomfortable feelings and spoil the group's mood. It could also lead to conflict in opinion or highlight other differences.

Both "comfort" and harmony are seen as more important than discussion or "truth".

This cultural trait would seem to make Thais rather suitable for the mushroom treatment.

[mrtoad]

It seem's to be you that keeps mentioning the bad points. Whats bad in discussing the lack of access to good media sources and information. I didn't mention any of those things - thus, it would be my understanding that you are talking drivel in your misguided belief that everything in the world is okay.

A cat in scunthorpe, who really cares, if you want to use extremeties to defend a poor argument then as they say "up to you".

mmmm Lets see....draconian censorship, mushrooms, Thai TV not being a source of current world affairs....these are some quotes you have made Mr Toad.

My point was and is that the Thais are very aware of world events but have difficulty in articulating to non Thai speaking people because the average Thai doesnt have the English or other language skills to hold such conversations. It is not rudeness or ignorance and it certainly is not culture.

Nice try to twist it....by saying I am mentioning bad points....yes I mention them, BUT I am not the one that said them initially.

My extreme example was nearly as good as your sarcastic answer.....and I quote....Oh silly me, I forgot to mention education. Yes, of course thats where it has to start.

Now if you will excuse me, it is after 2am here so I am retiring for the night

Yes, I can see that these early morning debates don't always bring the best out in us and I should learn not use sarcasm in times like theses.

I'd like to clarify firstly, that I am not just talking about Thai's ability to hold conversations in English about current affairs, domestic and world, even in their own language it can be difficult because of the reluctance to question - the point that I am trying to make is that they do not have the open access to free media, education and books that people in other countries do. Secondly, the education, social and class systems do not encourage people to be inquisative or to question those that are in power or who have influence. Even in Education it is always assumed that the teacher or lecturer is right, and it is very difficult to question anything that they may say or write.

If you seriously don't beleive that the media in Thailand is heavily censored then I don't think I will be able to get my point accross to you. I would also like to clarify what you class as the average Thai? Is this someone in Bangkok, or maybe someone further up in the provinces who are very much in the majority?

In respect of the quality of Thai TV, it really isn't of a good quality. News reporting on world affairs -it's not that great. I'd be interested to see wht sort of response you would get from your so called average Thais, if you asked them about Darfur, the South Korean Hostage situation, human rights in Burma and other such things.

What I don't understand is why you are so keen to bash people who are advocating more access to information which will enable them to have a better understanding of society and thus not take everything that is said or written at face value. The current situation only serves those who have power or influence and certainly doesn't represent the majority of Thais. Education and debate are the thing that those who cling to power fear the most.

I love the country and I respeact the culture, that does not mean that certain aspects should not be above criticism, and using the cliche of bashing Thais and disrespecting culture because some of us do like to question things is clutching at starws. It isn't always sunny.

Anyway, I think I will excuse myself now as it is lunchtime.

[canadiangirl]

hmm... i was thinking about this the other day too. i have a lot of intelligent thai friends- but they are intelligent in sort of a social way. they are brilliant at reading people, making conversation, pick things up quickly, etc.

I've really found this too, girlx! There's a book somewhere called "emotional intelligence" sort of advancing the theory that social skills are a lot more important to a person's success than raw intelligence, and it seems like many Thais have this kind of quality.

[WaiWai]

Yes, Thai culture is a "high context" culture, valuing feelings & relationships above facts, figures & objective "truth".

BTW, for anyone interested in the impact of culture on higher education (though applicable to education at all levels) in Thailand, see the article at http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:O5ac5e...t=clnk&cd=2 .

Edited August 3, 2007 by WaiWai

[EaglesGift]

A lot of people who come here to live seem to forget quite how stupid a lot of their countrymen were back home. I would have to say that a good 75% of people I met back in the UK had very little idea about global economics, politics etecera. Then there is the point that wafflng on about world politics can be an exercise in pretension with no real value apart from attempting to impress the people you are talking to with how knowledgable you are.

Many foreigners may be exposed to less educated sections of society than they were back home, especially in their early days here, which doesn't help.

My partner has too many books for me to go and list; dozens on Art, many novels in both Thai and English and very few about the King or Buddhism (not that there is anything wrong in my mind with those subjects). I have had many interesting convesations with her and her family that did not involve the weather or food and find them to be both well informed and as capable of critical thinking as any I have met in the West.

Conversely, I have met quite a few not too bright Westerners since I have been living here, and I would hate to think that Thai people thought they were representative of Westerners in general (although they may well be!)

Anyway, please don't flame me as I am new.

[mellow1]

Dear Mr.Thread poster:

I am curious as to why you are on the internet, and restricting your attempts of having intellectual conversations, to only Thai girls.I would think that enrolling in a local Jr College,and taking a course in Sociology or Philosophy would quickly satisfy such a need.You obviously don't live in Thailand,and this should be easy for you.It would be relatively inexpensive and you will be able to make new friends.If I could speak Thai, I would certainly do that, and learn more about computers, as well as make new friends.

I think that you might have to realize, that many of these girls speaking to you, may actually be interested in something other than your philosophy, or current world events.I will leave you to try and figure that out for yourself.

As for the reasons for the lack of interest, or inability to comprehend these topics for many of your online friends,many well written examples have already been given.Amazing at the wealth of information and satisfaction one can find when going to the right place.

[t.s]

Ok, I have a simple question for all of you who have a Thai partner at home. Go look around the house and tell me how many books (in Thai) you find. Then, eliminate all the ones that are about the King or Royal Family or Buddhism.

How many are left? I thought so... This has nothing to do with higher education. I know lots of people from many countries who are inquisitive and love to read and learn more who never went to a day of college. This is a cultural thing.

That was a pretty easy assignment. About About 10 non fiction, 30 Thai biographys, about 25 Thai novels, about 30 books about agriculture and horticulture things, another 20 Buddhism books. About 150 more in English about travel and art, with a few poetry volumes mixed in.

My query was obviously partly tongue in cheek. However, I am impressed with your good taste in partners Lannarebirth!

that would be why he answered the way he did.

[t.s]

On intellectual conversations in Thailand:

my Thai friend D. is one of those people who charms EVERYONE around him instantly, very funny, sweet, fun guy to be around. But he's definitely kind of "frivolous", only talks about hair, clothes, men, parties, -- not a serious bone in his body.

He was being courted by this older farang man called T. T was a plastic surgeon, trained at the best U.S. schools, pretty fit for an older guy (I think he was 40-50, D was 20), spoke good Thai, had a really good heart, really down to earth, smart guy. He's one of the people who convinced me that not all sex tourists are creepy losers -- this guy was a perfect gentleman, interesting, pleasant to be around. He does reconstructive plastic surgery on war victims, so he has worked in all the major conflict zones of the world: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Africa, etc.

All three of us were having coffee one night. T starts telling a story: "That reminds me of when I was working in the Cambodia refugee camps at the fall of the Pol Pot regime ---- " Dav interrupts him by placing a hand on T's arm and mine, and says in a confessional tone "I really want some ice cream!"

yes, a toyboy (boytoy?) is a fine example of the typical thai attitude towards intellectual conversations.

Edited August 3, 2007 by t.s

[t.s]

there must be someone out there in the kingdom who has enough intellectual depth to satisfy the op.

I can think of a few examples, but they are in jail for their political beliefs, working or generally not trawling the internet for a live one. I have plenty of thai friends who are very switched on, perhaps in the ops case water finds its own level...

Could the op could provide me the name of the last thai king or legally elected prime minister before thaksin, just off the top of his head of course.

Edited August 3, 2007 by t.s

[t.s]

They are children in adult bodies.

how superior you must feel.

[Kinter]

Different strokes, for different folks (I'm not american, but I've always liked that saying)

If you asked most of my Thai friends what they thought about the way most farang are, you'd probably hear 'why so serious?'.

I think this would be true when it comes to the topics of conversation too.

Life is cheaper here (in more ways than one), and the locals tend to live for the moment more. We (westeners), on the other hand tend to overanalyze everything, or at least in their eyes.

I don't think there is a better way to be, but there is another great old saying which I first heard on my maiden travels around Thailand about 16 years ago. 'Same same, but different!'

[theseveredhead]

why dont you learn to speak thai fluently and seek out some more clever types if it a thai national intellekshooall youre after -

im just not getting it, many bar girls have not even finished grade school and youre judging them pretty harshly.

i have a few pretty clever, but not really intellectual friends in thailand (english). other than that, i could say the exact same about the farang around here - so your point is what??

why dont you go to china and get a job at a big university??

DUDE... so why dont you let me borrow that trotsky biography?? ive finished keats and halfway thru the collected sommerset maughm. - someone toss me a brewski!

Edited August 3, 2007 by theseveredhead

[canadiangirl]

yes, a toyboy (boytoy?) is a fine example of the typical thai attitude towards intellectual conversations.

Well, I liked him. I was in thailand to escape my pure math degree -- so I wasn't looking to think too much. (in french we say se cassez la tete!, which means "to break one's head")

What made me laugh the most is that his older boyfriends would always eventually get annoyed at him for being so -- young -- and basically immature, I would always think of Humber Humbert in Lolita, the pedophile, who spends half the book complaining about how Lolita is immature -- well, that's what you get for dating 13 year olds!

[WaiWai]

Going back to the OP, another angle may well be the expectation of the Thai girl with respect to men (esp. foreign men, perhaps ). (Someone else did mention this.) Conversations of any "depth"/"seriousness" probably occur more between Thai males & between Thai females (thinking of heterosexuals here). Where the relationship is primarily romantic/sexual, I think it might indeed seem strange to a Thai to ask "deeper" questions, esp. at an earlier stage of the relationship.

Another point. An intelligent & well (formally) educated Thai told me recently that Thais have no habit of or interest in reading, self included. This person told me that Thais like TV, radio & telephone far more than reading; they like talking. So, if that is correct, and I suspect it is, how many books a person has read is not going to measure anything but their preferred method of communicating.

What the preferred topics of conversation are is another question, and this is something that does differ from culture to culture.

[kratindaeng]

Met my wife on the 'tinternet 4 years ago, before we met and from afar we always managed a deep and meaningful conversation...for example, discussing the inflated price of smokey-bites in 7-11 followed by an analysis of the Thai Economy. I never banged my head against the wall, not once, as when I finally arrived in Thailand 15 months ago, I realised 7-11 was open 24 hours, and the new cheese-bites were cracking at only 10 baht a peice....

[theseveredhead]

for what its worth ... even a high education does not an intellectual make. there are many doctors, engineers, accountants and even lawyers who are not whatsoever on any intellectual quest. they may be able to hold a conversation about the impacts of random quarks on baby unicorns but it hardly is what drives them.

doctors are some of the dumbest, least rounded people i have ever met. eight years of vocation training.

yes, i agree the nation as a whole is pretty shallow, BUT so is america... i mean fox news?

[sbk]

I thin the OP is asking alot of people he has just met very casually. And making some very broad generalizations based on his own limited experience.

Very few Thai people I know are willing to engage in a serious discussion (political etc) with someone they barely know. IME, these conversations are limited to peers, that they have known for many years. Its not unusual (either in the distant past and not so distant past) for people to be arrested or murdered for their beliefs. Why should they trust some farang they are chatting to on the Net?

[WaiWai]

for what its worth ... even a high education does not an intellectual make. there are many doctors, engineers, accountants and even lawyers who are not whatsoever on any intellectual quest. they may be able to hold a conversation about the impacts of random quarks on baby unicorns but it hardly is what drives them.

Quite true. Formal education can have a dulling effect. In my personal experience, some engineers have been the worst offenders, esp. mechanical ones . (Dilbert !) (And I think there is no shortage of engineers amongst foreigners here !)

Accountants .... . Don't think I have ever got to know any !

Doctors seem to come in many shapes and sizes. Anaesthesiologists are known in the profession for musical aptitude. I have met linguist doctors, quite a few with artistic interests and abilities, philanthropist doctors and many other kinds.

I don't know about Thailand, but Australia had a good number of quirky, highly self-educated people. There was a sub-category who liked to call talkback radio shows & write lettres to the newspapers. Interesting, intelligent, curious people.

I don't think we are talking about intelligence or knowledge or education here - more the curiosity & interest.

[t.s]

yes, a toyboy (boytoy?) is a fine example of the typical thai attitude towards intellectual conversations.

Well, I liked him. I was in thailand to escape my pure math degree -- so I wasn't looking to think too much. (in french we say se cassez la tete!, which means "to break one's head")

What made me laugh the most is that his older boyfriends would always eventually get annoyed at him for being so -- young -- and basically immature, I would always think of Humber Humbert in Lolita, the pedophile, who spends half the book complaining about how Lolita is immature -- well, that's what you get for dating 13 year olds!

i knew plenty of nelly gay guys back in vancouver. frivolity is pretty much a universally gay cliche.

[WaiWai]

i knew plenty of nelly gay guys back in vancouver. frivolity is pretty much a universally gay cliche.

So, you are saying that Thais are not so much the Blondes but rather the Gays of the world ?

[t.s]

i knew plenty of nelly gay guys back in vancouver. frivolity is pretty much a universally gay cliche.

So, you are saying that Thais are not so much the Blondes but rather the Gays of the world ?

neither