In a high-stakes legal battle, Special Counsel Jack Smith has called on an appeals court to revive the classified documents case against former U.S. President Donald Trump. This case, which centers around allegations that Trump unlawfully retained sensitive government documents at his Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida, was previously dismissed by a federal judge, sparking significant legal debate.

 

The controversy began when Trump was accused of improperly holding onto classified documents, including those from the Pentagon and CIA, after leaving office. These documents were allegedly kept unsecured at Mar-a-Lago, and Trump was accused of obstructing efforts by the government to recover them. The charges against Trump were severe, with 31 counts of "willful retention of national defense information," each carrying a potential sentence of up to 10 years in prison. Additional charges included conspiracy to obstruct justice and making false statements.

 

However, the case took a dramatic turn when District Judge Aileen Cannon, a Trump appointee, dismissed the charges last month. Judge Cannon's ruling was based on the argument that Jack Smith, who was appointed by President Joe Biden's Attorney General Merrick Garland, had been unlawfully appointed, thereby overstepping the role of Congress. This decision by Judge Cannon, a surprise to many, hinged on the belief that Smith's appointment did not adhere to legal standards, potentially undermining the legitimacy of the case against Trump.

 

In response to this ruling, Special Counsel Smith filed an appeal with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. On Monday, Smith submitted a detailed 60-page brief arguing against Judge Cannon's decision. In his brief, Smith emphasized that the practice of appointing special counsels has a long history in the United States, one that has been consistently endorsed by both attorneys general and Congress. Smith wrote, "The district court's contrary view conflicts with an otherwise unbroken course of decisions... and it is at odds with widespread and long-standing appointment practices in the Department of Justice and across the government."

 

Smith's brief also highlighted the broader implications of Judge Cannon's ruling, suggesting that it could call into question the legitimacy of numerous appointments across various federal departments. "The district court's rationale would likewise raise questions about hundreds of appointments throughout the Executive Branch, including in the Departments of Defense, State, Treasury, and Labor," Smith argued. This point underscored the potential for widespread disruption within the federal government if the decision were to stand.

 

The appeal by Smith has set the stage for a crucial legal showdown, with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals now tasked with determining the validity of the case against Trump. However, the court's calendar suggests that a resolution may not be reached before the upcoming November presidential election, where Trump is the leading candidate for the Republican Party. This timing adds another layer of complexity to the case, as Trump continues to face multiple legal challenges while campaigning for a return to the White House.

 

Trump's legal team now has 30 days to respond to Smith's brief, after which Smith will have 21 days to reply. This back-and-forth is expected to further prolong the proceedings, with the potential for the case to drag on well into the 2024 election cycle.

 

Adding to the intrigue is the broader legal context in which this case is unfolding. Judge Cannon's ruling came on the heels of a Supreme Court opinion that former presidents enjoy broad immunity from criminal prosecution for actions taken during their time in office. This opinion has played a significant role in Trump's strategy to delay his various legal trials until after the November 5 election. The implications of this legal doctrine are far-reaching, as it could potentially shield Trump from prosecution for actions taken while he was president.

 

Beyond the Mar-a-Lago documents case, Trump is also facing charges in Washington, D.C., and Georgia. These charges, which are also being pursued by Special Counsel Smith, relate to Trump's alleged efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, which he lost to Joe Biden. These cases have further complicated Trump's legal situation as he seeks to regain the presidency, raising questions about the intersection of law and politics in the United States.

 

As the legal battles continue, the outcome of the appeals court's decision on the Mar-a-Lago documents case will be closely watched. The case not only has significant implications for Trump but also for the broader legal principles surrounding the appointment of special counsels and the accountability of former presidents. With the stakes so high, the coming months are likely to see intense legal maneuvering as both sides prepare for what could be a landmark ruling.

 

Credit: ABC News 2024-08-28

 

 

 

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If you can't get Trump the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Seems the US justice department thinks people are either too stupid to see what they are doing or thinks so many people hate Trump that they can get away with anything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-brings-new-indictment-against-trump-election-subversion-case-2024-08-27/

Donald Trump faces revised US indictment in election subversion case

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't get Trump the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Seems the US justice department thinks people are either too stupid to see what they are doing or thinks so many people hate Trump that they can get away with anything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-brings-new-indictment-against-trump-election-subversion-case-2024-08-27/

Donald Trump faces revised US indictment in election subversion case

The courts decision to try and protect Trump  with their presidential criminal immunity decision was extremely flawed.
Trump then believed, wrongly, that those charges were henceforth dismissed.
If Trump is guilty as charged then he should not simply be able to walk away, though it seems that is precisely what his supporters want. He, or any President, is not above the law and Smith is determined that he is held accountable.
Jack Smith and his team have been smart enough to remove any evidence that might have run afoul of the courts ruling and have just resubmitted the same four felony charges with a more robust filing.
After a ruling by Judge Chutkan, this will no doubt end up back at the SCOTUS who should then find it extremely difficult to protect Trump again, in light of the new submittals.
Well played Jack.
Judge Cannon  ... you're next, especially with help from Judge Scarsi's recent comments

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't get Trump the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Seems the US justice department thinks people are either too stupid to see what they are doing or thinks so many people hate Trump that they can get away with anything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-brings-new-indictment-against-trump-election-subversion-case-2024-08-27/

Donald Trump faces revised US indictment in election subversion case

 

The problem is trump did indeed commit the crimes it’s on video by his own admission in security footage ect ect he willfully stole secret documents and attempted to hid them period all stop it is what it is he did what he did not only that he was telling others about the contents just to brag.keep this little nugget in your head in many countries he would instantly imprisoned or worse.

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't get Trump the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Seems the US justice department thinks people are either too stupid to see what they are doing or thinks so many people hate Trump that they can get away with anything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-brings-new-indictment-against-trump-election-subversion-case-2024-08-27/

Donald Trump faces revised US indictment in election subversion case

 

 

 

 

If you can't get Hunter Biden or Joe Biden the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Three house committees spent how much time and money to present a report with no evidence?....5555

 

 

 

Jack Smith is making moves in Washington too:

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/27/trump-indicted-2020-election-subversion-00176503

Rust never sleeps, Donnie.

 

 Dem Democracy using 

Lawfare …

 

• “Lawfare,” meaning the use of legal proceedings to damage an adversary.

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/complicit-bias-and-lawfare-among-top-new-legal-terms-in-2022#google_vignette

1 minute ago, riclag said:

 Dem Democracy syndrome using 

Lawfare …

 

 

• “Lawfare,” meaning the use of legal proceedings to damage an adversary.

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/complicit-bias-and-lawfare-among-top-new-legal-terms-in-2022#google_vignette

 

 

What was the outcome of the three House Committees trying to impeach Biden?.....I missed that.

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Dem Democracy using 

Lawfare …

 

• “Lawfare,” meaning the use of legal proceedings to damage an adversary.

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/complicit-bias-and-lawfare-among-top-new-legal-terms-in-2022#google_vignette

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

It was Aileen Cannon who made the ruling. The same judge who had previously been rebuked by a pane of 3 judges, including 2 very conservative ones, for her incompetence.

38 minutes ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

Rubbish.

 

In 1988, the Supreme Court ruled that independent counsels were constitutional, as the appointment clause also states that “Congress may vest the appointment of inferior officers in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.”

The Attorney General’s regulations provide for appointment of special counsel by the Attorney General.

Did you complain when John Durham was appointed  as special counsel  ?
Did you complain when Robert Hur was appointed as special counsel  ?
What about David Weiss being appointed as special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden ?
Why did Scarsi not quash the charges against Biden under the same Cannon ruling ?

Care to comment on those...I bet you don't.

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by tilaceer
Spelling.

32 minutes ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst there are arguments against the legality of Jack Smith’s appointment, they have not been upheld by courts or widely accepted in legal circles. The appointment is considered lawful under the current interpretation of the law.

 

 

 

If they are going to stick him with the same judge (Cannon) then why bother?

It's a judicial merry-go-round, in Georgia as well as Florida.

The real mess is going to be when he claims the election was stolen, [cut & paste all the 2020 bs here] etc, state certifications, etc.  They can't win if they can't pull off the con.

 

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by bendejo

49 minutes ago, bendejo said:

If they are going to stick him with the same judge (Cannon) then why bother?

It's a judicial merry-go-round, in Georgia as well as Florida.

The real mess is going to be when he claims the election was stolen, [cut & paste all the 2020 bs here] etc, state certifications, etc.  They can't win if they can't pull off the con.

 

Cannon is setting herself up to be removed from the case  by the Appellate Court.

 

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Chomper Higgot

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

No he wasn’t.

 

A Trump appointed judge made a baseless ruling with absolutely no references to any legal precedence.

 

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't get Trump the first time, try, try and try again, and again, and again..........................

 

Seems the US justice department thinks people are either too stupid to see what they are doing or thinks so many people hate Trump that they can get away with anything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-brings-new-indictment-against-trump-election-subversion-case-2024-08-27/

Donald Trump faces revised US indictment in election subversion case

You approve of buying Judges , we are not discussing Thailand, it’s Corruption in a Democracy 

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

Illegally appointed? Says the one Jude appointed by Trump. I'll wait to see what a full 11th Circuit Court finds as Smith's Appeal certainly outlines the validity of all such appointments in long usage, including during the Trump Administration.

23 minutes ago, Irish star said:

You approve of buying Judges , we are not discussing Thailand, it’s Corruption in a Democracy 

Oh, I agree but seems quite acceptable in SCOTUS Justice Thomas' case. I long ago had to face the reality that money has corrupted many, if not all, American society institutions of government, as well as business.

It's a non story, the Supreme court ruled presidents have robust immunity, so Jack Smith had his papers graded and was told he failed, so he's doing a resit now, having exercised all the portions he thinks he got wrong the first time around.

 

However, this case would drag to 2025 at least, by which time Trump will be in the White House and will dismiss the case, as he has a legal right then. 

 

And immunity for it, thanks to Jack Smith and the Supreme Court.

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Cameroni

Just now, Cameroni said:

It's a non story, the Supreme court ruled presidents have robust immunity, so Jack Smith had his papers graded and was told he failed, so he's doing a resit now, having exercised all the portions he thinks he got wrong the first time around.

 

However, this case would drag to 2025 at least, by which time Trump will be in the White House and will dismiss the case, as he has a legal right then. 

 

And immunity for it, thanks to the Supreme Court.

 

 

.....in jail.

3 hours ago, riclag said:

Jack was found to be illegally appointed .., Jack is using dem lawfare to persecute  a political adversary!

 

This is indicative of soviet style justice!

Dem democracy is corrupted!

 

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/soviet-criminal-justice-under-stalin

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-classified-documents-smith-c66d5ffb7ba86c1b991f95e89bdeba0c

 

 

And of course Jack Smith, the Democrat appointee, brings this in the hot phase of the election campaign period.

 

The sole aim is to discredit Trump, but that card has been played too often. They should know by now Trump is immune to this.

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

And of course Jack Smith, the Democrat appointee, brings this in the hot phase of the election campaign period.

 

The sole aim is to discredit Trump, but that card has been played too often. They should know by now Trump is immune to this.

 

 

I thought the whole process was delayed by judges and SCOTUS......when did Smith try to delay it?

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

I thought the whole process was delayed by judges and SCOTUS......when did Smith try to delay it?

But I never said Smith tried to delay it???

 

But why does he file the indictment now out of all periods, when the hot election campaigns are under way?

 

Coincidence?

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Cameroni

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

But I never said Smith tried to delay it???

 

But why does he file the indictment now out of all periods, when the hot election campaigns are under way?

 

Coincidence?

 

 

He's been waiting for the judges and SCOTUS to stop fannying about trying to confer total immunity on the 34 times felon.

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

He's been waiting for the judges and SCOTUS to stop fannying about trying to confer total immunity on the 34 times felon.

He seems in an awful hurry to file that indictment.

 

I wonder why, lol.

Edited August 28, 20241 yr by Cameroni

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

He seems in an awful hurry to file that indictment.

 

I wonder why, lol.

The SCOTUS only gave "robust immunity" under certain circumstances.
So, if he feels he has removed all the immunity obstacles from the four indictments and now can present to Judge Chutkan the documentation that she requested, (from both parties), when, in your opinion, should he have filed ?
What would you have done ?

In legal terms, one of Trumps major tactics has always been delay, delay, delay. Jack Smith wants to ensure that this case moves forward as expeditiously as possible, which seems perfectly reasonable.

2 minutes ago, tilaceer said:

The SCOTUS only gave "robust immunity" under certain circumstances.
So, if he feels he has removed all the immunity obstacles from the four indictments and now can present to Judge Chutkan the documentation that she requested, (from both parties), when, in your opinion, should he have filed ?
What would you have done ?

In legal terms, one of Trumps major tactics has always been delay, delay, delay. Jack Smith wants to ensure that this case moves forward as expeditiously as possible, which seems perfectly reasonable.

 

Well since I would have been aware that this case will drag out to 2025 anyway, I would not have seen this as a big priority. And given that there were two presidential election campaigns under way I would have thought it fairer not to interfere in that process. However, that's just me, as a fair minded individual. I'm not a Jack Smith, trying to make a career out of pleasing my Democrat employers.

 

Smith knows very well this case will drag on til 2025. Why would he have to bring the indictment now? Surely only because it's a political maneuvre to make Trump look bad, make him look like a criminal again. But this tactic is like howling at the moon. Pointless.

 

Expeditiously? Everyone knows it will not be before 2025 that this case is decided. Assuming Trump doesn't throw it out when he's in the White House.

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well since I would have been aware that this case will drag out to 2025 anyway, I would not have seen this as a big priority. And given that there were two presidential election campaigns under way I would have thought it fairer not to interfere in that process. However, that's just me, as a fair minded individual. I'm not a Jack Smith, trying to make a career out of pleasing my Democrat employers.

 

Smith knows very well this case will drag on til 2025. Why would he have to bring the indictment now? Surely only because it's a political maneuvre to make Trump look bad, make him look like a criminal again. But this tactic is like howling at the moon. Pointless.

 

Expeditiously? Everyone knows it will not be before 2025 that this case is decided. Assuming Trump doesn't throw it out when he's in the White House.

Short on facts, long on hyperbole.

18 minutes ago, tilaceer said:

Short on facts, long on hyperbole.

Suzy, you're back!