Causes of High Electricity Bills in Thai Apartments

[newbee2022]

Maybe the neighbors are participating secretly.

[black tabby12345]

On 10/8/2024 at 1:36 PM, Crossy said:

 

Does the outdoor unit start and stop (conventional) or vary speed continuously (inverter) once the room is down to the set temperature?

 

Do note that inverter compressors do have a minimum speed below which they stop, so if the cooling load is small for the unit size you'll see it cycling.

 

Yes, I can clearly hear the change of pace during its drive.

[KannikaP]

On 10/8/2024 at 2:03 PM, black tabby12345 said:

Specifications of  the A/C in my room.

Has been used since Nov.2005.

It was already here when I checked in.

 

Thai texts into English with google translate.

 

Any comments from the electrical experts Welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

Love where it says Types and Quantities of Drugs. And two EER readings. 

[KannikaP]

On 10/8/2024 at 11:21 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

Please just do math.

Check for the heat output in BTU/h

Divide by watts.

You get EER in BTU per hour divided by power used, in watts.

Just did that on my new TCL Elite 12000 unit. After settling down for about 10 minutes, it is maintaining 600 watts @ 28C. So its EER must be 12000/600 = 20. Good eh?

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Just did that on my new TCL Elite 12000 unit. After settling down for about 10 minutes, it is maintaining 600 watts @ 28C. So its EER must be 12000/600 = 20. Good eh?

 

NOPE.

 

That cheap AC that you bought...the TCL Elite 12000 has a EER that sucks the big one.

 

The SEER is only 16.

 

You need to check the side of the outdoor condenser unit.

There, you can find the numbers you need to calculate EER.

 

But, as I say....the Elite 12000....

https://www.powerbuy.co.th/en/product/tcl-air-conditioner-inverter-tac-xa13-inv-273324

 

Sucks the BIG one, BIG TIME....

 

 

[KannikaP]

46 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

That cheap AC that you bought...the TCL Elite 12000 has a EER that sucks the big one.

 

The SEER is only 16.

After much Googling around, I find that SEER 16 is good for an average costing, using air-con unit. The numbers to calculate the EER is BTH/watts. Mine is 20.

I am happy with mine.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

After much Googling around, I find that SEER 16 is good for an average costing, using air-con unit. The numbers to calculate the EER is BTH/watts. Mine is 20.

I am happy with mine.

 

 

Sorry.  But this is baloney.

You need to use the rated maximum power in watts.

Then divide that number into maximum heat output (from the hot coil).

If this is beyond you, then please do not confuse others.

 

SEER of 16 is GARBAGE for a modern AC, in the year 2024....

 

12000 BTU is a very small AC.

So, a good SEER should be above 23....

 

And, this ain't no baloney, boy......!

 

 

Edited October 11 by GammaGlobulin

[KannikaP]

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

12000 BTU is a very small AC.

Does that not depend on the size of the room in which it is fitted. 

9000 is fine for a medium bedroom. 12000 for a larger one, and in my 36 sq mtr, 2 mtr high lounge I have 2 x 12000s, PLENTY.

[KannikaP]

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You need to use the rated maximum power in watts.

Then divide that number into maximum heat output (from the hot coil).

If this is beyond you, then please do not confuse others.

The a/c takes about 2kW when first starting, settling to 700 watts after 30 seconds. Which figure shall I use to get my SEER please?

Maximum heat output...hot coil? Who's confusing who?

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Does that not depend on the size of the room in which it is fitted. 

9000 is fine for a medium bedroom. 12000 for a larger one, and in my 36 sq mtr, 2 mtr high lounge I have 2 x 12000s, PLENTY.

 

You just DONT GET IT, Boy!

 

We are talking EER and SEER.

 

This has NOTHING TO DO with the size of the room.

 

Smaller machines are able to achieve higher EER .  Got it?

Don't believe me?

Just google it.

 

Machines less than about 20,000 BTU are smaller machine which can be more easily designed to achieve higher efficiency, or higher EERs.

 

You should check, once again, how EER is calculated.  This is based on an industry standard.

So, EER is calculated the same way.

 

The ambient temp used is standard.

The machine must be operating at maximum, or near maximum power.

Humidity also must be controlled for when testing EER.

 

You FING CANNOT DO THIS AT HOME.....Boy!

 

For one thing, you have NO WAY of measuring the amount of heat being put out by the Hot Coil....BOY!

 

Therefore you have NO WAY of making the calculation, because you do NOT KNOW how many BTU of heat are being produced.

 

=========

 

If you want to talk about what size machine is too big for your room, that is an entirely different subject, which depends upon many things such as insulation, exposure to direct sunlight, and time of day of use, etc.

 

I think your understanding of SEER and EER and efficiency in general....needs a lot of work.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

The a/c takes about 2kW when first starting, settling to 700 watts after 30 seconds. Which figure shall I use to get my SEER please?

Maximum heat output...hot coil? Who's confusing who?

 

You CANNOT calculate SEER yourself.

 

Because, you do not know how many BTUs of heat are being produced by the machine, at any given time, or any given wattage being used.

 

Also, SEER is calculated on many factors, including usage at different times of year, and is seasonally influenced.

 

WHY CAN'T YOU JUST look at the Manufacturer's Rating, which is published, and available on the internet???????

 

I already sent you the published SEER rating for your machine....   16 which is garbage.

 

The EER rating is lower than the SEER.  My GUESS is that your machine has an EER of about 11 or 12, which is garbage, and it wastes a LOT of electric power.

 

You can contact your manufacturer for the exact EER rating that the company or testing organization has tested on your brand model of machine.  Probably 11 or 12, as I already told you.

 

Next time, BEFORE you buy, first look at the PUBLISHED EER and SEER ratings for machines that you might want to buy.

 

Higher EER or SEER rated machines cost more money.

 

For a machine of less than 18000 BTU, then a SEER of over 23 is acceptable.

 

I am not up to debating this further, as this is not really a suitable topic for debate.

It's just science.  And EER and SEER are what they are by.....DEFINITION....  There is no room for debate...obviously.

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

16 hours ago, KannikaP said:

After much Googling around, I find that SEER 16 is good for an average costing, using air-con unit. The numbers to calculate the EER is BTH/watts. Mine is 20.

I am happy with mine.

 

 

Regarding the SEER for the model AC you listed, this one, the SEER is as listed....  16

 

 

 

 

 

But, For the TAC-CHSA/XA61, the specs are as below:

EER for this machine is about 13, as you can plainly see.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

17 hours ago, KannikaP said:

That cheap AC that you bought...the TCL Elite 12000 has a EER that sucks the big one.

 

There are MORE THAN one model of TCL Elite 12000 available.

 

You need to first read carefully WHICH model you actually have.

Then, you can find the data you need, in order to calculate EER.

 

https://www.tcl.com/northafrica/en/air-conditioners

[GammaGlobulin]

21 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Just did that on my new TCL Elite 12000 unit. After settling down for about 10 minutes, it is maintaining 600 watts @ 28C. So its EER must be 12000/600 = 20. Good eh?

 

NOW HERE is a TRUE piece of ELITE GARBAGE, for example!!!!

 

The EER on this model TCL is SUPER low.

Piece of JUNK, definitely.

 

EER is about 10.5 or less.  This would be great for your Landlord to make big bucks off you by charging you surcharge for electric power.  What a RIP OFF,,,,,BIG TIME!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

21 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Just did that on my new TCL Elite 12000 unit. After settling down for about 10 minutes, it is maintaining 600 watts @ 28C. So its EER must be 12000/600 = 20. Good eh?

 

 

Here is ANOTHER piece of WASTEFUL GARBAGE from a TCL Elite 12000 model  (This is why it is important to identify which model you actually do have.....Otherwise, it's all just a big guessing game here.....)

 

EER of about 10.6

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

21 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Just did that on my new TCL Elite 12000 unit. After settling down for about 10 minutes, it is maintaining 600 watts @ 28C. So its EER must be 12000/600 = 20. Good eh?

 

As I told you...

You need to buy an AC with an SEER of 23 or above, if you want to cool efficiently and save money on electric power.

 

HERE is the Panasonic AC That I would buy, if I wanted a machine of about 18000 BTU.

But, I need larger machines....

 

You can see that the SEER rating on this machine is over 24.

 

 

The only thing that I would ensure, if I could, is that I purchased a Panasonic AC which was manufactured in Japan....

But this is probably not practicable.

 

I believe that the ACs made in SE Asia are GARBAGE by comparison to ACs made in Japan, by Panasonic.

Just an opinion based on experience using garbage from SE Asia...

 

 

 

 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

 

Here is ANOTHER piece of WASTEFUL GARBAGE from a TCL Elite 12000 model  (This is why it is important to identify which model you actually do have.....Otherwise, it's all just a big guessing game here.....)

 

EER of about 10.6

 

 

 

 

Why send me this when I said that I had an Elite INVERTER XAL 12CH.

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Regarding the SEER for the model AC you listed, this one, the SEER is as listed....  16

 

 

 

 

 

But, For the TAC-CHSA/XA61, the specs are as below:

EER for this machine is about 13, as you can plainly see.

 

 

 

Mine is XAL 12CH

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

As I told you...

You need to buy an AC with an SEER of 23 or above, if you want to cool efficiently and save money on electric power.

 

HERE is the Panasonic AC That I would buy, if I wanted a machine of about 18000 BTU.

But, I need larger machines....

 

You can see that the SEER rating on this machine is over 24.

 

 

The only thing that I would ensure, if I could, is that I purchased a Panasonic AC which was manufactured in Japan....

But this is probably not practicable.

 

I believe that the ACs made in SE Asia are GARBAGE by comparison to ACs made in Japan, by Panasonic.

Just an opinion based on experience using garbage from SE Asia...

 

 

 

 

https://buckeyeheat.com/knowledge-center/what-is-a-good-seer-rating/#:~:text=The higher the SEER rating%2C the more efficient the AC,money on your energy bills.

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Why send me this when I said that I had an Elite INVERTER XAL 12CH.

 

Because, I did not see where you listed the XAL-12CH.

 

Anyway, for the model XAL-12CH, there is not much information online.  I was unable to find the max power usage in WATTS.

This is all that I see shown on most sites...

 

 

So, if you know the max power in watts, then you can divide that into 12340, and get EER (estimate)

 

Some sites state that this machine might have a SEER of 20, but this should be checked with the manufacturer, to verify.

 

Super LOW cost, of course.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

https://buckeyeheat.com/knowledge-center/what-is-a-good-seer-rating/#:~:text=The higher the SEER rating%2C the more efficient the AC,money on your energy bills.

 

This site you link is for USA readers.

Anything under 23 is garbage.

 

What is good to you, might not be good to most people who are interested in saving money by using a high-efficiency unit.

 

In North America, the site you link, most people do not run ACs year-round.

But, most do, here in Thailand.

 

The entire site you link SUCKS the big one for Thailand readers.

 

 

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

This site you link is for USA readers.

Anything under 23 is garbage.

 

What is good to you, might not be good to most people who are interested in saving money by using a high-efficiency unit.

 

In North America, the site you link, most people do not run ACs year-round.

But, most do, here in Thailand.

 

The entire site you link SUCKS the big one for Thailand readers.

 

 

OK, thanks.

[GammaGlobulin]

10 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

OK, thanks.

 

However; if the unit you purchased, according to the model you listed, actually does achieve an SEER of 21, as I have seen on one internet site....

 

And, if the price is about Bt11,000.00, as I have seen on Lazada....

 

Then, it would be a wise move to buy this machine, obviously.

 

I would like to see the indoor and outdoor unit noise levels in dB, or example.  50 seems high to me.

 

Still, it would be better for me, for example, to buy 12 units of this model that you purchased...

 

Rather than THREE units of Panasonic 2400BTU machinese.

Because, the same overall cost.  Panasonic is much more expensive.

 

Therefore, it would be my choice to buy 12 units of the TCL machine that you bought....

Which would give me   144,000BTU of cooling power for less money than I paid for my three Panasonic machines, which give me only about 70,000BTU, TOTAL....

 

Therefore, if the SEER data is accurate for the machine that you purchased, the I would buy 12 of them, and still save money, and have TWICE THE COOLING POWER, too!!!!

 

However, as I say, I would first like to check the energy data, and the actual power consumption in watts, before I made a final decision.

 

I could actually use 144,000 BTU of Cooling Power, during the hot season.

Great for ice skating, or other forms of exercise.

 

When outdoor temps might be 43, then I could get the indoor temps down to 16.

Easy as pie, with 144,000 BTU of cooling power....

 

 

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

And, if the price is about Bt11,000.00, as I have seen on Lazada....

I have bought THREE of them using Lazada's and TCLs  voucher systems, no 1 was 7590, no2 was 8500 and the third was 7259. No shipping on any of them.

No 2 arrived on Thursday, it is the T-Pro model.

The sound from the outside unit has two walls to go through, so zero noise. The internal unit has 6 fan speeds, the first showing the equivalent of a MUTE icon. Cannot hear a thing.

 

Edited October 12 by KannikaP

[KannikaP]

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

When outdoor temps might be 43, then I could get the indoor temps down to 16.

The air coming out of the TCL is at 18C!

[GammaGlobulin]

28 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I have bought THREE of them using Lazada's and TCLs  voucher systems, no 1 was 7590, no2 was 8500 and the third was 7259. No shipping on any of them.

No 2 arrived on Thursday, it is the T-Pro model.

The sound from the outside unit has two walls to go through, so zero noise. The internal unit has 6 fan speeds, the first showing the equivalent of a MUTE icon. Cannot hear a thing.

 

 

As I said, when you FINALLY, shared the exact model number that you purchased:

 

This is a very good deal you have.

 

Here, you can see the difference, for example:

 

This machine normally sells for Bt.45,000.  This price listed is just a temporary discount. Usually, you cannot buy this, with installation, for less than Bt.45000.00.

And, since this machine is higher capacity than the smaller machines, the SEER .....SUCKS the BIG ONE...with an SEER of 20.20.  (The 18000 BTU unit has an SEER of 24.19, and the 1269 BTU unit  from Panasonic has an SEER of 24.4....)

 

 

The machine above has an SEER of 24.45...so....decent. (This SEER does NOT suck the Big One...!

 

Therefore, as I have just stated, your choice of the much cheaper brand (in Thailand)...was a very good choice, it seems to me.

 

My only concern is that the data published on Lazada, or other sites, might NOT be accurate.

And, there is really NO WAY you can test this yourself, because you have no accurate way to measure the heat coming off the hot coil, in BTU.  All you can do is measure power usage at what you consider to be MAX POWER, in WATTS, as you have already done.

 

The other problem I have had with cheaper Samsung machines, small ones, is that, in the past, they tended to ice up, when overtaxed. This happened a long time ago, with a Samsung machine, very cheap, 9000BTU, in Taiwan.

 

I prefer to buy Panasonic.

However, with the price that you got, then it's impossible to argue that you did not make the best choice.

If you cheap machine is quiet, and if it lasts over 4 years, then your choice was the best one could possibly make...OBVIOUSLY.

 

I had thought about buying something other than the Panasonic machines, the large ones.

BUT, I did not realize that I might have purchased, on Lazada, the TCL unit that you did.

 

If I now had it to do over again, then I could have purchased 4 TCL 12000 machines for the price of just one Panasonic 24000BTU machine.

If I had done this, then I think it might have been a much better choice....for sure.

 

But, how did you get the machine installed for such a low total price, is what I do not understand..... Bt.8000.00 is a super LOW price.....an amazing price, in fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

44 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

The air coming out of the TCL is at 18C!

 

The air exiting the vents of the indoor evaporator unit SHOULD be lower than 18 degrees C...by the way...

 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

The air exiting the vents of the indoor evaporator unit SHOULD be lower than 18 degrees C...by the way...

 

My Mitsus pumped out at 17C.

Edited October 12 by KannikaP

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

But, how did you get the machine installed for such a low total price, is what I do not understand..... Bt.8000.00 is a super LOW price.....an amazing price, in fact.

My man charges 2500 to fit and fill with gas, 500 to clean.

The one arriving today was 7239 !

Edited October 12 by KannikaP

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

My man charges 2500 to fit and fill with gas, 500 to clean.

The one arriving today was 7239 !

 

As I stated, in my view, you made the RIGHT DECISION to go with the cheapest machine that is able to operate normally, and up to your expectations.

 

Here is why, IMHO....

 

After buying GARBAGE produced in SE Asia, I have noticed that the cheaper garbage does not operate any better than the much more expensive garbage produced in SE Asian factories.

 

Why is this?

It's my belief that the QC employed in SE Asian factories is just all the same, no matter high or low priced.

 

Therefore, there is really NO POINT in spending more money for any type of "premium quality" machine....since, here in SE Asia...there IS NO SUCH THING as premium quality.  The components used are all the same.  And, there is very low chance to buy a premium quality machine, where all components used have been thoroughly tested before assembly.

 

Example:  Even with a premium quality machine, such as I have purchased in the past, there seems to always be several WEAK LINKS, such as a bad thermostat control, or a very bad fan, or something else.  Which means that, even with a premium-priced machine, the machine will be....just garbage, in the end.  Therefore, why pay more????

 

 

Far better to just go with the cheap stuff...and then....when something goes bad....just rip it out, and put it in the TRASH HEAP, where it truly belongs.

 

Better to buy TWO or THREE of any type of appliance, such as a microwave oven.  Then, when it fails within a year or two....just take a sledgehammer to it, take out your frustrations on it, and then carry it out to the curb-side, or trash pickup.  In the past, I paid much more for better microwave ovens, for example.  But they fail just as fast, or sometimes faster, than the ovens which cost 2 or 3-times as much.

 

These days, I just buy 3 microwave ovens, at one time.  When they fail...then OUT THEY GO....to the GARBAGE HEAP, where they belong.  I then just use the next in line....until that one goes KAPOOEY ....

 

 

I would ONLY pay premium prices for products made in Japan.  And, in fact, the premium company I mentioned, above, has already pulled their production out of China, and returned it to Japan....for JUST THIS REASON.  I am sure that this company would not have done this if ......  they could have reliably produced in China....with good QC control over components, etc.

 

In conclusion:  I really MUST AGREE with you that you made a far better purchasing decision than I....by a long shot.

 

You saved a lot of money.

You god a decent machine (machines).

And, I see not much difference between what brand you purchased, compared to what I purchased.

 

Also, China products can be very good.  China can make ANY QUALITY that the customer pays for.

We know this from the cars that they are making, these days, the EVs...for example.

 

Can Malaysia make  this quality?

NO!

Not in my opinion.

 

=========

I have had so many  problems with the ACs, premium machines, made in SE Asia.  And, these problems are due to things like faulty thermostats, or faulty design out of SE Asian engineers, who are wifty as heck.

 

Therefore...no point in paying premium prices for this garbage.

 

 

I do miss the OLD DAYS, in Japan, when I could buy an AC that was a beautiful piece of well-engineered and assembled machinery, which was a beauty to behold...and a pleasure to use.  Those days are gone, and probably never to return.

 

So...again...

I agree with your purchasing choice, concerning the TCL machine you found, for such low cost.

KUDOS to you, then....