MAGA civil war as Elon Musk and Vivek clash with hard right on key immigration issue

[John Drake]

Elon and Vivek going whole hog on unlimited H1B visas for Indians. 

 

Quote

'The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over 'native' Americans isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation),' Ramaswamy wrote. 

'A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH: Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long.'  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14228529/Elon-Musk-Vivek-Ramaswamy-clash-hard-right-key-immigration-issue.html

 

[mokwit]

I disagree with your/The Daily Mail's title. i think they are clashing with normal people who don't want to be excluded from the workforce and see their town and country turned into little India.

 

Some are suggesting (perhaps tongue in cheek) that Trump wants to annex Canada to get more Indians into the US more quickly.

 

This is from my X feed. You will have to judge for yourselves as to the credibility/veracity of this description of what may be going down.

 

Okay since the H1B visa and country caps and the tech sector and India an Indians are all a hot topic right now, I would like to address this as someone who has worked behind the scenes in H1B consultancies in the tech sector and explain EXACTLY why I’m against removing country caps, against the H1B visa, and against the entire canard that we need to import more people from anywhere, let alone India, to do “jobs that the tech sector can’t find Americans to do:

 

1) Sourcing Talent- Big companies like Google and Meta have the resources to go and actually pluck out the ACTUAL best talent from these countries, and it’s not hard for them to attract those applicants either because they have the brand recognition. All the best want to work for the best. This isn’t necessarily the problem. The problem is all the no name consultancies and mid size/small size consultancies. They can petition for H1B’s too. How are they sourcing them? Well, they (usually run by Indians) just find a guy from India through their network…who’s willing to work for them and come to America. That’s it. They’ll make sure they have some kind of Bachelors or Masters from some college out there and have the aptitude to learn and understand software that’s it. They aren’t actually “geniuses” or anything like that. They are just willing to work and can learn to “talk the talk” quickly.

 

2) Importation- once the prospective worker agrees, the consultancy petitions the American government (USCIS) on their behalf, saying they tried to recruit for the job (job doesn’t exist) in America and couldn’t find anyone, that’s why they need to bring this guy. Key part of this is that the visa is tied to the employer, so if the employer drops the worker, worker has to go back. He can’t just find another job. This is the indentured servitude model.

 

3) The Gambit- the consultancy makes sure the guy speak English, and that’s really it. USCIS can’t actually vet the workers on the knowledge they claim they have, especially a vast and sophisticated field like software. USCIS doesn’t actually have a way to tell if someone is lying about their skills or not. All they have to do is convince the USCIS that they can speak English so they can come and immediately start working here.

 

4) The Actual Job- once they get the petition for visa approved and they come here, they find out (or already know) they actually don’t have a job here yet. The consultancy now tries to find Corp to Corp contract gigs for the worker. That’s if they actually know the tech and they’re not faking. If they are faking their skills, another workflow is initiated.

 

5) Training Day (or months) - the fakers are trained for up to 3-4 months in a software that’s marketable and fetch a good hourly contract rate. Basically a coding Bootcamp style program. They go from zero to superficial knowledge in the tech, just enough to pass an interview with a potential client.

 

6) Sell the fake - after training the fake for 3-4 months, the fake is provided with a fake resume claiming 7-8 years of experience. Why? Because that’s how much experience is needed to demand a minimum of $50 per hour on a contract. Does it work? Duh. These workers trained for 3-4 months routinely fool interviewers looking for 7-8 years experience.

 

7) The Split- once the job and rate is secured, the consultancy bills at $50 per hour and pays the actual worker the minimum (about $27.50) an hour, and the consultancy pockets the difference. Imagine a 100 H1Bs on a roster doing this for you. Does this sound like fraud? Well that’s because it is, from beginning to end.

 

[John Drake]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I disagree with your/The Daily Mail's title. i think they are clashing with normal people who don't want to be excluded from the workforce and see their town and country turned into little India.

 

Some are suggesting (perhaps tongue in cheek) that Trump wants to annex Canada to get more Indians into the US more quickly.

 

This is why I didn't vote for Trump. I don't trust him to do what he campaigned on. Remember in 2016 he was all in favor of reducing H1Bs. And now, just a few months ago, he stated he wanted to staple a green card on to every foreigner's diploma from any college, including 2 year colleges. Trump needs to make a statement now, today, about whether he agrees with Elon and Vivek wanting to flood the country with H1Bs. BTW, I see several claims that Musk is shutting down and shadowbanning X accounts that criticize him and disagree with him about H1Bs. We don't need Elon and Vivek running America's immigration policy.

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This is why I didn't vote for Trump. I don't trust him to do what he campaigned on. Remember in 2016 he was all in favor of reducing H1Bs. And now, just a few months ago, he stated he wanted to staple a green card on to every foreigner's diploma from any college, including 2 year colleges. Trump needs to make a statement now, today, about whether he agrees with Elon and Vivek wanting to flood the country with H1Bs. BTW, I see several claims that Musk is shutting down and shadowbanning X accounts that criticize him and disagree with him about H1Bs. We don't need Elon and Vivek running America's immigration policy.

Please see edited extended version above.

 

Musk is saying he was referring only to the extreme ability O1? something visa not H1B.

[G_Money]

No problem.  H1B visas and their holders are LEGAL non immigrant visas.

 

 

[mokwit]

Just now, G_Money said:

No problem.  H1B visas and their holders are LEGAL non immigrant visas.

 

 

There is suggestion (see what I posted from X above) that the process by which they are being obtained "legally" is not above board.

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Please see edited extended version above.

 

Revealing details.

[G_Money]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This is why I didn't vote for Trump. I don't trust him to do what he campaigned on. Remember in 2016 he was all in favor of reducing H1Bs. And now, just a few months ago, he stated he wanted to staple a green card on to every foreigner's diploma from any college, including 2 year colleges. Trump needs to make a statement now, today, about whether he agrees with Elon and Vivek wanting to flood the country with H1Bs. BTW, I see several claims that Musk is shutting down and shadowbanning X accounts that criticize him and disagree with him about H1Bs. We don't need Elon and Vivek running America's immigration policy.

“We don't need Elon and Vivek running America's immigration policy“

 

Who says they are?

 

Even if they were it would be 1000% better than Biden or his “Border Czar “ Harris.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

There is suggestion (see what I posted from X above) that the process by which they are being obtained "legally" is not above board.

 

Not to mention that the Indian Trump hired as his AI adviser is on Youtube recommending Indians commit marriage fraud in order to stay in the US permanently.

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, G_Money said:

No problem.  H1B visas and their holders are LEGAL non immigrant visas.

 

 

 

Biden did the same thing with his "parole." They're all legal now. 

[Will B Good]

"A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian - a culture that venerates Cory from Boy Meets World or Zach & Slater over Screech in Saved by the Bell, or 'Stefan' over Steve Urkel in Family Matters will not produce the best engineers,' he noted". ....Vivek

 

Can't say I would disagree with any of that......but where is the clash with Musk?

[Will B Good]

Separately...why are they sticking their oars into immigration and the granting of these visas......???

[John Drake]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Separately...why are they sticking their oars into immigration and the granting of these visas......???

 

It's not just these two. Other oligarchs like David Sacks and Peter Thiel are also campaigning for more Indian H1Bs. This is the payment they want for supporting Trump with donations and supporting statements.

[G_Money]

9 minutes ago, mokwit said:

There is suggestion (see what I posted from X above) that the process by which they are being obtained "legally" is not above board.

Is this your opinion or proven fact?

 

So USCIS doesn’t vet the applicants for their degrees? 
 

How would you know this?

 

 

[G_Money]

10 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Biden did the same thing with his "parole." They're all legal now. 

Are they?  Under what status?

 

Lettuce picking?

 

 

[G_Money]

7 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Separately...why are they sticking their oars into immigration and the granting of these visas......???

Legal immigration.  Note the difference between legal and illegal?

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, G_Money said:

Are they?  Under what status?

 

Lettuce picking?

 

 

 

He paroled them and processed them cash, phones, and work permits. 

[G_Money]

13 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

It's not just these two. Other oligarchs like David Sacks and Peter Thiel are also campaigning for more Indian H1Bs. This is the payment they want for supporting Trump with donations and supporting statements.

Could it be the American Education system is producing nothing but liberal leftists dip<deleted>?  

[Will B Good]

Just now, G_Money said:

Legal immigration.  Note the difference between legal and illegal?

 

Funnily I do understand the difference between legal and illegal.........but what has the DOGE got to do with either in terms of the administration's policy.

[John Drake]

5 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Is this your opinion or proven fact?

 

So USCIS doesn’t vet the applicants for their degrees? 
 

How would you know this?

 

 

 

Maybe they're overwhelmed and don't have the information on Indian diploma mills.

 

USCIS received a total of 780,884 (approximately 781K) H1B Registrations for the FY 2024 season.

---

Total Eligible

Of the total 781K H1B registrations submitted, the total number of eligible registrations stood at 758,994 (approximately 757K). The difference of 21,890 (780,884 -758,994) between submitted vs. eligible registrations is accounted for the duplicate registrations, failed payments, and others deleted by employers before the close of the registration period.

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Could it be the American Education system is producing nothing but liberal leftists dipshi-s?  

 

You'd like to think so....but that being the case, where do all the right wing dip<deleted> voters come from?

[G_Money]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

 

He paroled them and processed them cash, phones, and work permits. 

Based on their qualification and education?

 

I think not.

 

Future Democrat voters and representation.

 

No other reason.

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Funnily I do understand the difference between legal and illegal.........but what has the DOGE got to do with either in terms of the administration's policy.

 

DOGE = Department of Government Efficiency which is efficiently replacing Americans with Indians.

[Will B Good]

Just now, John Drake said:

 

DOGE = Department of Government Efficiency which is efficiently replacing Americans with Indians.

 

So Vivek is off to a flying start?.......but tech workers work in tech not the government?

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Based on their qualification and education?

 

I think not.

 

Future Democrat voters and representation.

 

No other reason.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-parole-biden-administration-1-million-migrants/

[G_Money]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Funnily I do understand the difference between legal and illegal.........but what has the DOGE got to do with either in terms of the administration's policy.

Since when is DOGE taking over USCIS?

They haven’t.

 

Voicing an opinion doesn’t mean they are taking over the agency.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

So Vivek is off to a flying start?.......but tech workers work in tech not the government?

 

People are getting H1Bs for everything from tech jobs to entry level accounting jobs and even catering jobs.

[Will B Good]

Just now, G_Money said:

Since when is DOGE taking over USCIS?

They haven’t.

 

Voicing an opinion doesn’t mean they are taking over the agency.

 

Who said they were taking over the USIS?......Musk?......Is that where the clash arose?

[G_Money]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

DOGE = Department of Government Efficiency which is efficiently replacing Americans with Indians.

Hold on cowboy, you’re getting way ahead of yourself.

 

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

 

People are getting H1Bs for everything from tech jobs to entry level accounting jobs and even catering jobs.

 

 

And this leads to government jobs...or potentially, can lead to government jobs?