Et tu, Fox?

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Trump says he's not changed his mind on H-1B visas as debate rages within MAGA coalition
President-elect Donald Trump had previously promised to end the use of H-1B as a 'cheap labor program'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-says-hes-not-changed-his-mind-h-1b-visas-debate-rages-within-maga-coalition

[NoDisplayName]

That re-opened a rift between those on the right over the program and whether it is being used to attract the best talent or being used by companies to bring in cheaper labor, who are tied to their job by the visa.

 

So you disagree with Trump?

That visa should be used as a "cheap labor program"?

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6 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

That re-opened a rift between those on the right over the program and whether it is being used to attract the best talent or being used by companies to bring in cheaper labor, who are tied to their job by the visa.

 

So you disagree with Trump?

That visa should be used as a "cheap labor program"?

Which Trump are you asking me disagree with? The one who denounced it as a cheap labor program or his even more evil twin who supports it?

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Which Trump are you asking me disagree with? The one who denounced it as a cheap labor program or his even more evil twin who supports it?

 

Please provide a link to a verifiable Trump quote where he outright declares he is in favor of H-B1 visas being utilized as a "cheap labor program."

 

Your link in the OP doesn't do that. at least not if you read past the headline.  It's not the gotcha you think it is.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Please provide a link to a verifiable Trump quote where he outright declares he is in favor of H-B1 visas being utilized as a "cheap labor program."

 

Your link in the OP doesn't do that. at least not if you read past the headline.  It's not the gotcha you think it is.

He's now calling it a beautiful program. So it's a beautiful program being utilized as a "cheap labor program"?

[NoDisplayName]

From YOUR link, and gosh, you even included it in YOUR OP:

 

President-elect Donald Trump had previously promised to end the use of H-1B as a 'cheap labor program'

 

I think the real crime is Trump utilizing your noggin as a no-fees lresidence.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

From YOUR link, and gosh, you even included it in YOUR OP:

 

President-elect Donald Trump had previously promised to end the use of H-1B as a 'cheap labor program'

 

I think the real crime is Trump utilizing your noggin as a no-fees lresidence.

That was back when he wasn't calling it a beautiful program. In fact, his characterization of the program  was far from flattering. Which makes sense if you're claiming it operates as a "cheap labor program." But calling a "cheap labor program"  beautiful, not so much.

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

That was back when he wasn't calling it a beautiful program. In fact, his characterization of the program  was far from flattering. Which makes sense if you're claiming it operates as a "cheap labor program." But calling a "cheap labor program"  beautiful, not so much.

 

I no find "beautiful" in the article.

I did however find this

 

"I’ve been very clear that the program is broken and needs major reform," he said on Saturday.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

During the presidential primaries in 2016, Trump described the H-1B program as "very bad for workers" and "we should end it".

 

It is clear that President Musk has in the meantime set him straight on this issue since Trump now describes H-1B as a "great program". I guess that's the least that Trump could do after receiving more than $250 million in campaign donations from Elon.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/28/business/trump-immigration-h1b-visa.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mU4.Aegb.dtpygTjfL8w7&smid=url-share

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/h1b-visa-trump-elon-musk-india-b2672611.html

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15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I no find "beautiful" in the article.

I did however find this

 

"I’ve been very clear that the program is broken and needs major reform," he said on Saturday.

Back when he campaigned he denounced the program. Towards the end of his first term, his administration's proposed reforms that would pretty much have killed it.  Recently, he claimed that he's always liked this program. He always liked it despite the fact that it's broken? Now he's saying again it needs major reform. What's the most likely explanation for this latest zig-zag? The blowback from prominent MAGA-ists finally managed to penetrate the idyll that is his bromance with Musk. 

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18 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

I think the real crime is Trump utilizing your noggin as a no-fees lresidence.

I failed to note the fact that you used a stupid cheap personal comment. And, at this point, a very clichéd one.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I failed to note the fact that you used a stupid cheap personal comment. And, at this point, a very clichéd one.

 

Stupid?..........perhaps.

Cheap?.........maybe.

Clichéd..........shirley!

 

But absopositively apt.

[placeholder]

32 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Stupid?..........perhaps.

Cheap?.........maybe.

Clichéd..........shirley!

 

But absopositively apt.

Personal comments like yours are for people who have apparently run out of sensible arguments. So instead they resort to mindreading. You've got nothing.

[placeholder]

20 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I no find "beautiful" in the article.

I did however find this

 

"I’ve been very clear that the program is broken and needs major reform," he said on Saturday.

I shouldn't have trusted your claim about the quote.. It didn't come from Trump. It came from Elon Musk.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/elon-musk-says-h1b-visa-program-broken-needs-major-reform/articleshow/116784552.cms

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"In May, Musk laid off more than 14,000 Tesla workers, including many H-1B visa holders. Reddit threads filled with laments by workers who had moved to the United States from India only to be let go with no warning. They were desperate to remain in the country, but because H-1B visas are owned by the employer, they had few options for doing so.

That’s why these workers stay compliant and cheap: They can’t leave the companies that control the visas. If they were really top talent, they should be getting green cards, not enduring six years of underpaid servitude.

https://archive.ph/MEgAc

[jas007]

Why not keep the visa category and reform the program?

 

Allow highly skilled foreigners into the country with no ties to any particular employer. Once they enter the country, they're on their own.  Let them compete in the labor market. If they're so "valuable": some employer will hire them, right? 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Why not keep the visa category and reform the program?

 

Allow highly skilled foreigners into the country with no ties to any particular employer. Once they enter the country, they're on their own.  Let them compete in the labor market. If they're so "valuable": some employer will hire them, right? 

Because the  H-1B program is not for highly skilled foreigners. 

"Most H-1B visa holders are lower-paid labor, not top talent. In May, Musk laid off more than 14,000 Tesla workers, including many H-1B visa holders. Reddit threads filled with laments by workers who had moved to the United States from India only to be let go with no warning. "

https://archive.ph/MEgAc#selection-4739.0-4751.82

[Mavideol]

21 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

That re-opened a rift between those on the right over the program and whether it is being used to attract the best talent or being used by companies to bring in cheaper labor, who are tied to their job by the visa.

 

So you disagree with Trump?

That visa should be used as a "cheap labor program"?

they asked for them, here they come, best talent for cheaper wages  555

A group of 2,000 migrants in southern Mexico depart for the US weeks before election

 

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-migration-south-us-elections-a79f782a126dad73cd7ca784e6fc03d7

 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

8 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

they asked for them, here they come, best talent for cheaper wages  555

A group of 2,000 migrants in southern Mexico depart for the US weeks before election

 

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-migration-south-us-elections-a79f782a126dad73cd7ca784e6fc03d7

 

 

Yes, that convoy of brain surgeons and rocket scientists departed 2 weeks BEFORE the election in hopes of arriving before the new administration

 

“That is what makes us fearful. They say this could change because they could both close the CBP One appointment and all the services that are helping migrants,” he said.

 

But soon after Trump won the election by a landslide, the convoy from the Oct 21 report turned back.

 

Migrants Abandon Caravan As Trump Win Kills 'Dream of Getting Out'

Published Nov 07, 2024

Migrants are abandoning a caravan headed for the United States because Donald Trump's election win has dashed their "dream of getting out".

The caravan, which began earlier this week in southern Mexico, included approximately 3,000 migrants seeking asylum or economic opportunities in the U.S.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-caravans-turn-back-after-trump-election-win-1982274

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4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Yes, that convoy of brain surgeons and rocket scientists departed 2 weeks BEFORE the election in hopes of arriving before the new administration

 

“That is what makes us fearful. They say this could change because they could both close the CBP One appointment and all the services that are helping migrants,” he said.

 

But soon after Trump won the election by a landslide, the convoy from the Oct 21 report turned back.

 

Migrants Abandon Caravan As Trump Win Kills 'Dream of Getting Out'

Published Nov 07, 2024

Migrants are abandoning a caravan headed for the United States because Donald Trump's election win has dashed their "dream of getting out".

The caravan, which began earlier this week in southern Mexico, included approximately 3,000 migrants seeking asylum or economic opportunities in the U.S.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-caravans-turn-back-after-trump-election-win-1982274

Since Mexico hasn't been stopping migrant caravans from the south, you're making a great point here...oh wait a minute...

 

Mexico blocks new US-bound migrant caravan

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/5/mexico-blocks-new-us-bound-migrant-caravan

 

Migrant caravan disbanded in southern Mexico

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/migrant-caravan-disbanded-in-southern-mexico/3119414

 

Mexico disbands migrant caravan that set out for U.S. during Americas Summit

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexico-disbands-migrant-caravan-that-set-out-us-during-americas-summit-2022-06-11/

 

Migrant Caravans Not Reaching Border, Claudia Sheinbaum Says After Trump Threats

https://www.newsweek.com/caravans-not-reaching-border-says-mexico-president-after-trump-threats-1991916

 

 

[jas007]

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because the  H-1B program is not for highly skilled foreigners. 

"Most H-1B visa holders are lower-paid labor, not top talent. In May, Musk laid off more than 14,000 Tesla workers, including many H-1B visa holders. Reddit threads filled with laments by workers who had moved to the United States from India only to be let go with no warning. "

https://archive.ph/MEgAc#selection-4739.0-4751.82

 

OK. Whatever the supposed basis. Simply don't tie the visas to any particular employer. Establish categories of  possible employees, depending on skill level.  Set limits on the numbers. Allow them to apply. Let them compete in the job market. They won't come if there aren't jobs for them.  

 

 

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Just now, jas007 said:

 

OK. Whatever the supposed basis. Simply don't tie the visas to any particular employer. Establish categories of  possible employees, depending on skill level.  Set limits on the numbers. Allow them to apply. Let them compete in the job market. They won't come if there aren't jobs for them.  

 

 

But if they are willing to work for less, why wouldn't there be jobs for them? Another big problem is that it removes the incentive to train Americans to do the work. Why invest in training here when you can get more cheaply trained workers from abroad?

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

they asked for them, here they come, best talent for cheaper wages  555

A group of 2,000 migrants in southern Mexico depart for the US weeks before election

 

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-migration-south-us-elections-a79f782a126dad73cd7ca784e6fc03d7

 

 

 

 

A veritable ARMY of those wishing to illegally enter the USA.

 

Are they nuts?

 

For some reason, they seem to feel that it is their RIGHT to invade the US.

 

But what do they think actually GIVES them the right?

 

By the way:  I am NEVER going back, after watching your linked video.  No Way...JOSE!!!!!

 

 

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Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

 

A veritable ARMY of those wishing to illegally enter the USA.

 

Are they nuts?

 

For some reason, they seem to feel that it is their RIGHT to invade the US.

 

But what do they think actually GIVES them the right?

 

 

I doubt that these people are as much concerned with whether or not they have the  the right to invade the U.S. as they are motivated by the desire to escape poverty. 

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19 minutes ago, jas007 said:

 

OK. Whatever the supposed basis. Simply don't tie the visas to any particular employer. Establish categories of  possible employees, depending on skill level.  Set limits on the numbers. Allow them to apply. Let them compete in the job market. They won't come if there aren't jobs for them.  

 

 

One solution might be to require that these workers, if they really are elite, to be paid an income that is in the top 10th percentile for such workers. I think we'd see a very sharp drop in demand except for those who were truly elite.

[GammaGlobulin]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I doubt that these people are as much concerned with whether or not they have the  the right to invade the U.S. as they are motivated by the desire to escape poverty. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE could escape poverty?

 

I used to spend much time listening to Jeffrey Sachs and his views of how to end poverty, while he lectured at Columbia.

 

I like this guy!

 

 

The best way to stop illegal migration from the South into the USA, is to reduce poverty south of the border.

But...

Does such a thing just make TOO MUCH SENSE?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if EVERYONE could escape poverty?

 

I used to spend much time listening to Jeffrey Sachs and his views of how to end poverty, while he lectured at Columbia.

 

I like this guy!

 

 

The best way to stop illegal migration from the South into the USA, is to reduce poverty south of the border.

But...

Does such a thing just make TOO MUCH SENSE?

 

 

Care to share with the rest of us your program for achieving that goal?

[jas007]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

One solution might be to require that these workers, if they really are elite, to be paid an income that is in the top 10th percentile for such workers. I think we'd see a very sharp drop in demand except for those who were truly elite.

I don't have a problem with that, except I'm not sure about setting a percentage.  Just let them compete.  The "market" will take care of the rest.  If an employer wants the best and the brightest, they'll pay up.  Money talks. 

[placeholder]

Just now, jas007 said:

I don't have a problem with that, except I'm not sure about setting a percentage.  Just let them compete.  The "market" will take care of the rest.  If an employer wants the best and the brightest, they'll pay up.  Money talks. 

We seem to be going around in circles. For H-1B visas the best and the brightest aren't necessary. Good enough is. What you seem to be proposing is nothing less than open borders and the free movement of labor.

[GammaGlobulin]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Care to share with the rest of us your program for achieving that goal?

 

Jeff Sachs' program is better than my program, for sure.

 

Why not just listen to Jeff, instead of me?

 

Your time will be better spent....

Believe me.