Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) between Thailand and Australia

[CharlesHolzhauer]

I am classified in Australia as a self-funded retiree. My pension payments are drawn from a private pension platform and are automatically deposited into an external bank account. The investment earnings on the assets supporting these pension payments are tax-free, as approved by the Australian government.
Would anyone in a similar situation know if these tax-free pension payments become taxable once they are remitted to my Thai bank account? From my understanding, the Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) between Thailand and Australia does not specifically address private pension payments. Any insights or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I am classified in Australia as a self-funded retiree. My pension payments are drawn from a private pension platform and are automatically deposited into an external bank account. The investment earnings on the assets supporting these pension payments are tax-free, as approved by the Australian government.
Would anyone in a similar situation know if these tax-free pension payments become taxable once they are remitted to my Thai bank account? From my understanding, the Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) between Thailand and Australia does not specifically address private pension payments. Any insights or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

I'm in the same boat. AFAIK the private pensions like super are not covered by the DTA and are taxable...at least this was my impression after reading the DTA. Departing next month to spend 7 months in Oz then 2 months in Europe, this will prevent me being tax resident in Thailand in 2025. Planning to spend less than 180 days per year for forseeable future.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

6 minutes ago, gearbox said:

I'm in the same boat. AFAIK the private pensions like super are not covered by the DTA and are taxable...at least this was my impression after reading the DTA.

Bummer😀. I didn't make any money transfers in 2024 and my previous 2023 money transfers will last for a while. Enough time to make decisive arrangements.  

[In Full Agreement]

1 hour ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I am classified in Australia as a self-funded retiree. My pension payments are drawn from a private pension platform and are automatically deposited into an external bank account. The investment earnings on the assets supporting these pension payments are tax-free, as approved by the Australian government.
Would anyone in a similar situation know if these tax-free pension payments become taxable once they are remitted to my Thai bank account? From my understanding, the Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) between Thailand and Australia does not specifically address private pension payments. Any insights or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

Are you currently or have you in the past paid income tax/

[CharlesHolzhauer]

5 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

Are you currently or have you in the past paid income tax/

No, not in Thailand.

[Pattaya57]

I'm in the "bury my head in the sand" club. I remitted over a million baht in savings during 2024. Am I racing to get a TIN and file a Thai tax return when I've had no Thai income, no chance!

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Bummer😀. I didn't make any money transfers in 2024 and my previous 2023 money transfers will last for a while. Enough time to make decisive arrangements.  

I can work around the transfers but if they want to start taxing worldwide income irrespectively whether the income was transferred or not, I would have real issues. Too much uncertainty at the moment, the 100% fix is to spend less than 180 days.I live off money I transferred in 2022, but I'm planning to move to DTV, this would free my 800k in the bank to be used.

[Phillip9]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

I can work around the transfers but if they want to start taxing worldwide income irrespectively whether the income was transferred or not, I would have real issues. Too much uncertainty at the moment, the 100% fix is to spend less than 180 days.I live off money I transferred in 2022, but I'm planning to move to DTV, this would free my 800k in the bank to be used.

 

How will they find out about your income in Australia?  They would need to hire lawyers in Australia and take you to court there to get that information.  Seems completely impossible they could do that considering how much that would cost and the number of foreigners living in Thailand.  No reason to even spend a second worrying about that until we get at least one report that it's happened to someone else.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

45 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm in the "bury my head in the sand" club. I remitted over a million baht in savings during 2024. Am I racing to get a TIN and file a Thai tax return when I've had no Thai income, no chance!

I am happily married and have settled comfortably in Thailand, with no intentions of looking back as my ties to Australia are firmly behind me. At my age, I have no interest in acting ignorant; my priority is to do what is right, stay out of trouble and live peacefully.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

22 minutes ago, gearbox said:

I can work around the transfers but if they want to start taxing worldwide income irrespectively whether the income was transferred or not, I would have real issues. Too much uncertainty at the moment, the 100% fix is to spend less than 180 days.I live off money I transferred in 2022, but I'm planning to move to DTV, this would free my 800k in the bank to be used.

I am 76 years young and financially secure. While the proposed tax on worldwide income would be a manageable setback, I have no intention of making any drastic changes to my current living arrangements.

[gearbox]

37 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

 

How will they find out about your income in Australia?  They would need to hire lawyers in Australia and take you to court there to get that information.  Seems completely impossible they could do that considering how much that would cost and the number of foreigners living in Thailand.  No reason to even spend a second worrying about that until we get at least one report that it's happened to someone else.

Nope....Google CRS. At the moment is too mirky but if the Thais determine you are tax resident they may require the CRS info from the Oz side, and they may need to provide it. However it is all new and would probably need years to be worked out. One thing for sure - the things are going to get worse, not better. The governments are out to fleece you.

[Pattaya57]

28 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I am happily married and have settled comfortably in Thailand, with no intentions of looking back as my ties to Australia are firmly behind me. At my age, I have no interest in acting ignorant; my priority is to do what is right, stay out of trouble and live peacefully.

I understand this revised tax clause was never intended to tax retirees living in Thailand on a pension. It is meant to catch wealthy Thai's earning income overseas. Until someone says they were forced to pay Thai tax on their aussie pension I will remain as usual without doing a Thai tax return. Good luck to you trying to find an exact answer though as there isn't one, no-one knows.

[gearbox]

35 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I am 76 years young and financially secure. While the proposed tax on worldwide income would be a manageable setback, I have no intention of making any drastic changes to my current living arrangements.

At 76 I wouldn't worry too much....it will take probably years to get to effective worldwide taxation. The taxman can do little if they don't have info from overseas.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/8/2025 at 5:59 AM, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I am classified in Australia as a self-funded retiree. My pension payments are drawn from a private pension platform and are automatically deposited into an external bank account. The investment earnings on the assets supporting these pension payments are tax-free, as approved by the Australian government.
Would anyone in a similar situation know if these tax-free pension payments become taxable once they are remitted to my Thai bank account? From my understanding, the Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA) between Thailand and Australia does not specifically address private pension payments. Any insights or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

The DTA does not cover this type of income. 

 

It is taxable in Thailand.

[KhunHeineken]

For what it's worth, the word "pension" is used to describe monthly income generated by a super fund, but in many cases it's actually an "annuity."  Therefore, using the word "pension" for these payments can be incorrect.   

[CharlesHolzhauer]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

For what it's worth, the word "pension" is used to describe monthly income generated by a super fund, but in many cases it's actually an "annuity."  Therefore, using the word "pension" for these payments can be incorrect.   

You couldn’t be more mistaken! With an account-based pension, I have full control over how the funds are invested within the available options, offering far greater flexibility. Additionally, it allows for the seamless continuation of pension payments to my nominated beneficiary after my passing.

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

You couldn’t be more mistaken! With an account-based pension, I have full control over how the funds are invested within the available options, offering far greater flexibility. Additionally, it allows for the seamless continuation of pension payments to my nominated beneficiary after my passing.

I said "in many cases" and not "in YOUR case" or "all cases." 

 

Merely pointed out that the word "pension" is very broadly used to describe any regular payment once retired.  Not every single retiree will receive a "pension" but some may still call it a "pension" because that's what they believe it to be, however, it may be a different financial product. 

 

https://moneysmart.gov.au/retirement-income/annuities#:~:text=An annuity%2C also known as,sure about your future income.

[AlexRRR]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:48 PM, Phillip9 said:

 

How will they find out about your income in Australia?  They would need to hire lawyers in Australia and take you to court there to get that information.  Seems completely impossible they could do that considering how much that would cost and the number of foreigners living in Thailand.  No reason to even spend a second worrying about that until we get at least one report that it's happened to someone else.

You are meant to supply your banks here and there with relevant tax file numbers, once you are linked ........and of course once it gets to that stage then both Tax offices will be linked, something that further generations will need to be dealing with.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/26/2025 at 7:52 AM, AlexRRR said:

You are meant to supply your banks here and there with relevant tax file numbers, once you are linked ........and of course once it gets to that stage then both Tax offices will be linked, something that further generations will need to be dealing with.

Yes. 

 

From the ATO. 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/international-tax-agreements/in-detail/international-arrangements/automatic-exchange-of-information-crs-and-fatca

[ubonr1971]

On 1/8/2025 at 3:48 PM, Phillip9 said:

 

How will they find out about your income in Australia?  They would need to hire lawyers in Australia and take you to court there to get that information.  Seems completely impossible they could do that considering how much that would cost and the number of foreigners living in Thailand.  No reason to even spend a second worrying about that until we get at least one report that it's happened to someone else.

i agree

[ubonr1971]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:52 PM, AlexRRR said:

You are meant to supply your banks here and there with relevant tax file numbers, once you are linked ........and of course once it gets to that stage then both Tax offices will be linked, something that further generations will need to be dealing with.

do you know an aussie here who would be stupid enough to do this... provide such info to both authorities....

[AlexRRR]

On 7/8/2025 at 6:47 PM, ubonr1971 said:

do you know an aussie here who would be stupid enough to do this... provide such info to both authorities....

Well I haven't, and dont intend to until forced too, but my Commbank has asked for my Thai tax file number, my reply at the time was I have yet to apply for a Thai tax file number.

 

One day sometime into the future as the world gets smaller.....

[ubonr1971]

5 hours ago, AlexRRR said:

Well I haven't, and dont intend to until forced too, but my Commbank has asked for my Thai tax file number, my reply at the time was I have yet to apply for a Thai tax file number.

 

One day sometime into the future as the world gets smaller.....

dont give it to them. Instead give them your middle finger. They have no right to ask for it legally. 

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, ubonr1971 said:

dont give it to them. Instead give them your middle finger. They have no right to ask for it legally. 

See the words "automatic" and "exchange?"

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/international-tax-agreements/in-detail/international-arrangements/automatic-exchange-of-information-crs-and-fatca

 

The Australian government already know about your foreign bank accounts, and the Thai government already know about your Australian bank accounts.  That's because such knowledge is "automatic" and "exchanged" between the two jurisdictions. 

[KhunHeineken]

OP, you should start planning for the future and to spend 45 days a year in Australia, or be prepared to pay the below in tax. 

 

Foreign resident tax rates for 2019–20 to 2025–26.

Foreign resident tax rates 2025–26

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $135,000	30c for each $1
$135,001 – $190,000	$40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000
$190,001 and over	$60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

[BaanOz]

On 7/11/2025 at 11:15 AM, KhunHeineken said:

OP, you should start planning for the future and to spend 45 days a year in Australia, or be prepared to pay the below in tax. 

A legal decision in 2013 shows that a person who fails to cut their connection with Australia will be treated as an Australian resident.

http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/aat/2013/604.html
https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency#Residencytestshttps://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency#Residencytests

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, BaanOz said:

A legal decision in 2013 shows that a person who fails to cut their connection with Australia will be treated as an Australian resident.

http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/aat/2013/604.html
https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency#Residencytestshttps://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency#Residencytests

This is exactly why the proposed changes have been drafted. 

 

The current laws are 90 years old and have a lot of loopholes, and are very subjective.  They focus on one's "intention" to return to Australia to reside full time.  How can the ATO prove what I intend to do, or do not intend to do, in the future?  

 

To remove this burden of proof, the current 90 year old laws will be replaced with a physical presence and time based model, 

 

Inside Australia for 183 days a year, tax resident.  Outside Australia for 183 days a year, non tax resident.  Inside Australia over 45 days but less than 183 days, meet two out of four factor tests  Inside Australia for less than 45 days, non resident for tax purposes.  No reviews, no appeals, no going to court, and all backed up by immigration records.  

 

So, when the new laws are passed, how do YOU propose to remain a tax resident of Australia, in order to avail yourself of the tax resident tax free threshold, when you have not been back to Australia in years?   

 

It's nothing new.  Thailand has similar.  Inside Thailand for 180 day, resident for tax purposes.  Outside Thailand for 180 days, non resident for tax purposes. 

 

The DTA between Australia and Thailand was put forward as a way that pensions would not be taxed at non resident rates.  Articles 18 and 19 of the DTA deal with pensions.  The pensions that are exempted are "service pensions."  Eg.  military.  The aged pension is not a "service pension" thus not covered by the DTA. 

[BaanOz]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, when the new laws are passed, how do YOU propose to remain a tax resident of Australia, in order to avail yourself of the tax resident tax free threshold, when you have not been back to Australia in years?   

Until it's law, that's hard to answer without knowing details if it even gets passed. I guess 45 days would be fine while we still have an empty house in Australia.
 

I understand (not being a tax expert!) superannuation payments remains tax-free regardless of your residency but outside super you'd lose that $18200 tax free amount and pay foreign tax rates on interest, dividends, rental income etc.

As time goes by, if we personally don't spend the 4%++ mandatory super per year and it goes into a saving account - we may get slugged on the interest if this law passes and unless of course we don't do the 45 day thingy.

[BaanOz]

2 hours ago, BaanOz said:

we may get slugged on the interest if this law passes and unless of course we don't do the 45 day thingy.

Just a way around this could be to “commute” the pension. ie: get cash back into the tax free environment.

 

There are age and possibly dollar limits of doing this depending on the superfund but another option if the above actually comes to fruition.

 

Video here explains:

 

https://www.superguide.com.au/retirement-planning/can-i-add-to-super-after-i-commence-a-pension

[Lacessit]

Any savings before December 31, 2024 are not taxable when transferred to Thailand.

 

I don't see why any income , taxed or not, in Australia should be taxable in Thailand under the DTA.

 

The whole tax imbroglio is centred around whether Immigration is going to require retirees to present a Thai tax number and /or a Thai tax return when renewing their yearly extension. Thus far, there is no evidence this has happened to anyone.

 

For those retirees who are married to a Thai, they get 600,000 baht in deductions.

 

I could be wrong, but I really can't see Thai tax officials leaving their air-conditioned offices to hunt down retirees, when they don't even know where they live.