My Thai Tax Office Tax Filing Experience...

[WingNut]

58 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Well I certainly won't be opening any new accounts over here. Three is enough for me. Thanks for the info.

 

Your welcome. The truth is that due to FATCA, many overseas financial institutions refuse to open accounts for Americans to avoid the nuisance of the complex IRS compliance requirements. While Thailand is an helpful exception, in many developed countries, it's significantly more difficult for Americans to even open bank accounts. This means it's also more challenging for Americans to live life as an expat in some Western countries. 

 

[baansgr]

11 hours ago, Wyabcp said:

from my limited knowledge trying to figure all this out, the capital gains from an ISA is taxable in Thailand. Also, the DTA may cover some of the pension tax, but the UK tax free allowance is also taxable in Thailand. As for transferring to spouse, this needs to be fully documented and proved that you won't benefit from it...

I really hope I'm wrong, I'm from the UK and in similar situation...

Cheers for the detailed answer, 

[Yumthai]

12 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Then, there will be cases of enforcement being publicized to ponder. 

Can't wait to see that. The only few cases will be the scared sheep running to file putting themselves in the tax system with unstraightforward foreign income situation where TRD is not able to process the DTAs and other exemptions from the foreign supporting docs then will tax full remittances regardless.

[Sheryl]

Nrw question: does anyone have a link to an official source stating there is a 100k pension allowance/exemptikn? Gets mentioned in various places but I csn't find it in any RD publication nor a space for it on any tax form. 

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Nrw question: does anyone have a link to an official source stating there is a 100k pension allowance/exemptikn? Gets mentioned in various places but I csn't find it in any RD publication nor a space for it on any tax form. 

Less Expenses:

On PND90 it is on page 2  Section 1.5

On PND91 it is on page 2 Section A.4

[Raindancer]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Nrw question: does anyone have a link to an official source stating there is a 100k pension allowance/exemptikn? Gets mentioned in various places but I csn't find it in any RD publication nor a space for it on any tax form. 

This might help.

 

Check first Deductions for Expenses:

 

It was clarified that income derived from pensions counted towards exemptions/ allowances of 50%, but no more than 100000 baht could be included. 

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

 

This link from Jan 2024 was also given:

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Can't wait to see that. The only few cases will be the scared sheep running to file putting themselves in the tax system with unstraightforward foreign income situation where TRD is not able to process the DTAs and other exemptions from the foreign supporting docs then will tax full remittances regardless.

I expect to see a couple of high net worth individuals, possibly Chinese, paraded before the media for not paying this tax. 

 

You've lived in Thailand long enough to know the Directory General will order it done, so he can say to his boss and the public, "See, we are catching them and making them pay tax."   It goes to "face."  

 

Time will tell. 

[KhunHeineken]

18 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

Yes, think your right, should be some interesting stories over the coming weeks.

it's all a big crock of Do Do. fun times ahead. not. 

 

 

The Thai's know they are on to something with this, and no way will they just let it fade away. 

 

2025 is just the start.  This tax policy will evolve, but at the end of the day, it will have something in it for all foreigners living here.

[jesimps]

On 1/31/2025 at 2:21 PM, topt said:

DTA states UK Govt. (civil service etc) pension can only be taxed in the UK.

Both private pensions and the state pension can be taxed in Thailand.

Probably because the tax for government employees is taken out by the government at source. It is never given to you so  the Thais know for certain that the tax has been paid. The same can't be said for the state pension.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Raindancer said:

This might help.

 

Check first Deductions for Expenses:

 

It was clarified that income derived from pensions counted towards exemptions/ allowances of 50%, but no more than 100000 baht could be included. 

 

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

 

This link from Jan 2024 was also given:

 

 

 

Yes I have seen those but can't find anything ftom the RD. 

[rocketboy2]

59 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Thai's know they are on to something with this, and no way will they just let it fade away. 

 

2025 is just the start.  This tax policy will evolve, but at the end of the day, it will have something in it for all foreigners living here.

 

Yes think your right.

Maybe they will give us all something like,  free mango and sticky rice once a year at counter 

24 in the immigration car park. 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Less Expenses:

On PND90 it is on page 2  Section 1.5

On PND91 it is on page 2 Section A.4

How would this be considered expenses? Doesn't make sense Expenses are costs incurred in earning income.  ????

 

This eoulf be an allowance or exemption not an expense.

[Raindancer]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

How would this be considered expenses? Doesn't make sense Expenses are costs incurred in earning income.  ????

 

This eoulf be an allowance or exemption not an expense.

Well, it's how you interpret it.

 

It states: income derived from pensions, is exempt from taxation.   Sure its badly  labelled under Expenses.  But the wording is quite explicit.

 

This was explained by Mike Lister in numerous posts, in Jan 2024 and onwards.

 

And @Mutt Daeng clearly posted, where it can be included, in income tax returns.

 

Perhaps it might ease your mind by contacting Sherrings or one of the Tax experts for a free 15 minute call. 

[NoDisplayName]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes I have seen those but can't find anything ftom the RD. 

 

On the PN90 you, you enter your pension in section 1(1), then

1(2) you deduct contributions 1(3) you add allowances.  1(4) is the total, then in 1(5) you take up to 100K off.

 

No. 1 item 5.
Enter allowable expense equal to 50% of the amount stated in item 4. but not exceeding 100,000 baht. If you and your spouse both have income and you are filing jointly, you and your spouse can each deduct expense as stated above. Thus, the maximum allowable expense is 200,000 baht in this case.

[NoDisplayName]

31 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

How would this be considered expenses? Doesn't make sense Expenses are costs incurred in earning income.  ????

 

This eoulf be an allowance or exemption not an expense.

 

Not just salary..........section 1 is income derived from employment

 

Section 40(1) income includes your salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, rent allowance, employer-provided rent-free lodging, debt liability paid by your employer, and any money, property or benefit you received in connection to your employment.

 

"Expense" may be a poor translation.  I think of it as a standard deduction any taxpayer may take without supporting documentation, instead of filing an additional Schedule A itemizing expenses.  Isn't that available for rental income also?  You can take a standard 30% deduction or elect to itemize expenses?

[MartinL]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Nrw question: does anyone have a link to an official source stating there is a 100k pension allowance/exemptikn? Gets mentioned in various places but I csn't find it in any RD publication nor a space for it on any tax form. 

 

I can't provide a link but I can show an actual example of it being applied.

 

The attached is a page from my wife's tax return from last week. She only has pension income so uses Form 91. She's 69 so qualifies for the 65+ allowance. The 100k 50% 'expenses' is deducted at Line 4 - even though she has no 'expenses' as I'd understand the term. Those two and the personal allowance of 60k puts her in the 0% tax band. The figure of about 7,700 baht is the withholding tax taken during 2024, to be refunded.

 

 

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

 

I can't provide a link but I can show an actual example of it being applied.

 

The attached is a page from my wife's tax return from last week. She only has pension income so uses Form 91. She's 69 so qualifies for the 65+ allowance. The 100k 50% 'expenses' is deducted at Line 4 - even though she has no 'expenses' as I'd understand the term. Those two and the personal allowance of 60k puts her in the 0% tax band. The figure of about 7,700 baht is the withholding tax taken during 2024, to be refunded.

 

 

Thanks @MartinL. This is a very useful post (for me anyway).

[Mutt Daeng]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

How would this be considered expenses? Doesn't make sense Expenses are costs incurred in earning income.  ????

 

This eoulf be an allowance or exemption not an expense.

Already covered by @Raindancer, @NoDisplayName & @MartinL.

[Raindancer]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

 

I can't provide a link but I can show an actual example of it being applied.

 

The attached is a page from my wife's tax return from last week. She only has pension income so uses Form 91. She's 69 so qualifies for the 65+ allowance. The 100k 50% 'expenses' is deducted at Line 4 - even though she has no 'expenses' as I'd understand the term. Those two and the personal allowance of 60k puts her in the 0% tax band. The figure of about 7,700 baht is the withholding tax taken during 2024, to be refunded.

 

 

Thank you for your helpful illustration.

The only thing that I don't see, is the first 150k non taxable deduction. 

[MartinL]

8 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

Thank you for your helpful illustration.

The only thing that I don't see, is the first 150k non taxable deduction. 

That's because it's a BAND of 0 > 150k @ 0%. Her taxable income, after the 3 'allowances', is 112k, falling within that band and shown in Lines 7-11. Line 12 shows tax payable at 0 ฿.

[Raindancer]

Just now, MartinL said:

That's because it's a BAND of 0 > 150k. Her taxable income, after the 3 'allowances', is 112k, falling within that band and shown in Lines 7-11. Line 12 shows tax payable at 0 ฿.

Great.  Many thanks for your help and clarification. 

[aldriglikvid]

On 1/30/2025 at 11:55 PM, NoDisplayName said:

 

Yes, but now you're planning to intentionally file an incorrect return.  What happens if your return is chosen at random for audit?  How do you answer why you only declared enough of your remittances to be under the taxable limit?

 

That would send up the red smart flags, indicate tax evasion, and would potentially trigger a 5-year audit.

 

 

This fortunately is one of the few areas that has been clearly defined.  Savings prior to Jan 01,2024 is non-assessable.  There are questions as to how that would be interpreted in relation to brokerage accounts, but if you have an actual savings account with a balance shown on a Dec 2023 statement, you're golden.

 

**OPINION ONLY, NOT ADVICE.  NOT AN EXPERT**

Not expecting advice, but I'd appreciate your feedback on my situation: 

I transferred approximately 10m THB to my Thai bank in January 2024. All those funds came from my local bank back home, and have been taxed for already (via investing in equites and the such). The purpose for the transfer is probably not relevant for the RD, but I'm disclosing it here for context: purchase of condominium. 

Even though I earned this sum prior to 2024, and could produce documents to show it, I'm somewhat "scared" to file a 10 million remittance to Thailand - and then claim it non-assessable (from my understanding here, isn't really a viable option on the filing docs just yet). I'm afraid that they will be unable to properly understand my local docs, or interpret them to my disadvantage. 

Perhaps a controversial take, but, I'm probably going the route of not filing at all.

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Not expecting advice, but I'd appreciate your feedback on my situation: 

I transferred approximately 10m THB to my Thai bank in January 2024. All those funds came from my local bank back home, and have been taxed for already (via investing in equites and the such). The purpose for the transfer is probably not relevant for the RD, but I'm disclosing it here for context: purchase of condominium. 

Even though I earned this sum prior to 2024, and could produce documents to show it, I'm somewhat "scared" to file a 10 million remittance to Thailand - and then claim it non-assessable (from my understanding here, isn't really a viable option on the filing docs just yet). I'm afraid that they will be unable to properly understand my local docs, or interpret them to my disadvantage. 

Perhaps a controversial take, but, I'm probably going the route of not filing at all.

 

As long as you have documentation to show the entire amount was pre-2024 earnings, you should be fine.

 

Best document would be a bank statement from Dec 2023 showing a cash balance, and of course the SWIFT paperwork showing the transfer from that account to Thailand. 

 

If you sold the investments prior to 2024, it's simple.  If you sold in Jan 2024, accounting for full/partial remittance of investment capital/gains is currently.........unknown.

 

Call the TRD help line, #1161, to get the official answer.

 

**NOT ADVICE, OPINION ONLY**

[aldriglikvid]

22 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

As long as you have documentation to show the entire amount was pre-2024 earnings, you should be fine.

 

Best document would be a bank statement from Dec 2023 showing a cash balance, and of course the SWIFT paperwork showing the transfer from that account to Thailand. 

 

If you sold the investments prior to 2024, it's simple.  If you sold in Jan 2024, accounting for full/partial remittance of investment capital/gains is currently.........unknown.

 

Call the TRD help line, #1161, to get the official answer.

 

**NOT ADVICE, OPINION ONLY**

Appreciate it. Unfortunately, the funds were withdrawn from my broker mid January and transferred immediately. I'll ponder on this. Thanks! 

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, aldriglikvid said:

Appreciate it. Unfortunately, the funds were withdrawn from my broker mid January and transferred immediately. I'll ponder on this. Thanks! 

 

This is where things get complicated.  The regulations seem to be written for a population that does not invest, that has all their eggs in one single passbook savings account.

 

Is this a case where you sold off one entire holding, then sent the entire proceeds to Thailand?  If so, then you only have to worry about what the cost basis was, or which cost basis.  If only partial, we still don't have a definitive ruling on whether we send capital first, then gain, or whether any partial transfer is considered a combination of capital and gain.

 

Or was it a mix of some of this stock, some of that stock, sold some winners to offset some losers, add in some cash from the credit union..........bundle it all together and send it over?

[KhunHeineken]

50 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Not expecting advice, but I'd appreciate your feedback on my situation: 

I transferred approximately 10m THB to my Thai bank in January 2024. All those funds came from my local bank back home, and have been taxed for already (via investing in equites and the such). The purpose for the transfer is probably not relevant for the RD, but I'm disclosing it here for context: purchase of condominium. 

Even though I earned this sum prior to 2024, and could produce documents to show it, I'm somewhat "scared" to file a 10 million remittance to Thailand - and then claim it non-assessable (from my understanding here, isn't really a viable option on the filing docs just yet). I'm afraid that they will be unable to properly understand my local docs, or interpret them to my disadvantage. 

Perhaps a controversial take, but, I'm probably going the route of not filing at all.

Did you stay in Thailand more than 179 days in 2024?  If you did, why? 

 

It was well discussed that one transferring larger sums of money here, for such purposes as buying property, should seriously consider being a non resident for tax purposes in the year they remitted said larger sum of money. 

[topt]

5 hours ago, jesimps said:

Probably because the tax for government employees is taken out by the government at source. It is never given to you so  the Thais know for certain that the tax has been paid. The same can't be said for the state pension.

Who knows what the process was as the DTA was signed in 1981........

Yet one poster on here seems to think that as it is exempt/non assessable (apologies as I am lost as to the difference now )

[jesimps]

On 1/31/2025 at 8:41 PM, Raindancer said:

You're welcome.  I have no idea regarding rental income.

 

The purpose of my post was to highlight the current income tax exemptions.  Maybe they apply to your circumstances or not.  Apply them if and where necessary, if you so wish.

 

I will not be applying for a TIN, as I have already posted on AN.   Because my UK state pension is under my 560k annual exemptions.   And my military pension is covered under the DTA.

 

Others may  decide to apply for a TIN, and that is their choice.  

 

Everyone has a different viewpoint on this.  But I will do nothing, until it is 100% necessary, if and when it is clarified, and thus instructed by the TRD.

 

 

 

 

I'm in a similar situation, Civil Service Pension covered by DTA and state pension frozen at 5260 pounds pa, way below the 560,000 THB allowance. Unless I find out for certain that under Thai law I need to file, I will not be doing so.

[topt]

1 hour ago, aldriglikvid said:

Appreciate it. Unfortunately, the funds were withdrawn from my broker mid January and transferred immediately. I'll ponder on this. Thanks! 

Were the funds in cash as at 31/12/2023 or still invested?

If the former you should be ok.

If the latter............not looking good but this is the big debatable point.....