BBC with a brutal takedown of Ukrainian hopes

theblether · February 13

I have never commented on this conflict. I was shocked to see the BBC put the boot in this morning.

This is all in stark contrast to the oft-repeated and now rather hollow sounding Western mantra of sustaining Nato support for Ukraine "for as long as it takes".

Hollow sounding mantra?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k5wyqqlq0o

uncletiger · February 13

Not sure what you mean? Seems obvious to me. Yes. Hollow sounding mantra.

Do you honestly think Ukraine still has a chance of winning, and that NATO will genuinely support them for "as long as it takes"? The US is done with this war. Who do you think is going to take their place?

"As long as it takes" has always been hollow. Ukraine never had a chance to win. Everyone knew it. It was a lie from the beginning in order to create a massive money laundering engine. Ukraine now has 1 option, and that is to accept the following terms:

1. Repay their loans equivalent to US $500 billion via rare earth mineral mining rights

2. Agree to cede all territories Russia has captured

3. Agree to never join NATO

That is the solution to stop the war. The question is merely how many more innocent Ukrainians need to die before Zelensky and his handlers accept it. Anything other than the stark reality that this is the only solution is hollow. But since the money laundering engine has been turned off, I expect Ukraine will agree in short order.

As for exactly who in NATO were the architects of this plan to grab Ukraine's mineral rights, that's a subject that is open for debate. But Ukraine never had a chance for victory.

theblether · February 13

6 minutes ago, uncletiger said:

Not sure what you mean? Seems obvious to me. Yes. Hollow sounding mantra.

Do you honestly think Ukraine still has a chance of winning, and that NATO will genuinely support them for "as long as it takes"? The US is done with this war. Who do you think is going to take their place?

"As long as it takes" has always been hollow. Ukraine never had a chance to win. Everyone knew it. It was a lie from the beginning in order to create a massive money laundering engine. Ukraine now has 1 option, and that is to accept the following terms:

1. Repay their loans equivalent to US $500 billion via rare earth mineral mining rights

2. Agree to cede all territories Russia has captured

3. Agree to never join NATO

That is the solution to stop the war. The question is merely how many more innocent Ukrainians need to die before Zelensky and his handlers accept it. Anything other than the stark reality that this is the only solution is hollow. But since the money laundering engine has been turned off, I expect Ukraine will agree in short order.

As for exactly who in NATO were the architects of this plan to grab Ukraine's mineral rights, that's a subject that is open for debate. But Ukraine never had a chance for victory.

This is one of the reasons why I don't comment on the Ukrainian War. Everyone's an expert.

The point of my thread is that I'm surprised to see the BBC put the boot in to this extent.

Anyway, realpolitik is rearing it's head. We'll see what happens.

WorriedNoodle · February 13

55 minutes ago, theblether said:

I have never commented on this conflict. I was shocked to see the BBC put the boot in this morning.

You seem to be misunderstanding that this is the news in the link you sent. Its not the BBC putting the boot in as you say, its the US govt.

theblether · February 13

Just now, WorriedNoodle said:

You seem to be misunderstanding that this is the news in the link you sent. Its not the BBC putting the boot in as you say, its the US govt.

Did you read the BBC reporters words?

This is all in stark contrast to the oft-repeated and now rather hollow sounding Western mantra of sustaining Nato support for Ukraine "for as long as it takes".

WorriedNoodle · February 13

8 minutes ago, theblether said:

Did you read the BBC reporters words?

This is all in stark contrast to the oft-repeated and now rather hollow sounding Western mantra of sustaining Nato support for Ukraine "for as long as it takes".

Of course I did. Here's a summary : The leaders of the United States and Russia, Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, had a constructive phone call regarding the ongoing war in Ukraine. The call resulted in a lowering of tensions, but it may come at the expense of Ukraine's security and borders. US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth stated that there will be no US troops or NATO membership for Ukraine, and it is unlikely to regain its pre-2014 borders. The US wants an early end to the war and sees it as Europe's problem to solve. Further details of the US peace proposals may emerge at the Munich Security Conference.

Surely you realize the BBC is a news organization and simply reports what others are saying.

theblether · February 13

5 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Of course I did. Here's a summary : The leaders of the United States and Russia, Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, had a constructive phone call regarding the ongoing war in Ukraine. The call resulted in a lowering of tensions, but it may come at the expense of Ukraine's security and borders. US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth stated that there will be no US troops or NATO membership for Ukraine, and it is unlikely to regain its pre-2014 borders. The US wants an early end to the war and sees it as Europe's problem to solve. Further details of the US peace proposals may emerge at the Munich Security Conference.

Surely you realize the BBC is a news organization and simply reports what others are saying.

Is English your first language? This line is not a statement of fact, it's a journalistic opinion. Feel free to show me where these words left any politicians words verbatim yesterday.

"This is all in stark contrast to the oft-repeated and now rather hollow sounding Western mantra of sustaining Nato support for Ukraine "for as long as it takes".

rabas · February 13

The new Secretary of Defense's comments, seemingly backed by Trump are no doubt disturbing. But, they are in stark contrast with two recent major developments aimed at derailing Putin's economy and war effort. First, a major push to finally stop Russia's shadow tanker fleet, currently Putin's primary source of revenue. Second, Trump's agreement with Ukraine to provide up to $0.5 trillion of new unrestricted weapons in exchange for Ukraine mineral development, the same minerals that prompted Putin's invasion to begin with. Odd.

Capitulation to Putin and these other new developments are inconsistent. What's going on? Leaving domestic politics aside, one must assume Putin is alarmed at these other developments. Are the Sec Defs words meant to deflect attention from them?

Hellfire · February 13

1 hour ago, uncletiger said:

Not sure what you mean? Seems obvious to me. Yes. Hollow sounding mantra.

Do you honestly think Ukraine still has a chance of winning, and that NATO will genuinely support them for "as long as it takes"? The US is done with this war. Who do you think is going to take their place?

"As long as it takes" has always been hollow. Ukraine never had a chance to win. Everyone knew it. It was a lie from the beginning in order to create a massive money laundering engine. Ukraine now has 1 option, and that is to accept the following terms:

1. Repay their loans equivalent to US $500 billion via rare earth mineral mining rights

2. Agree to cede all territories Russia has captured

3. Agree to never join NATO

That is the solution to stop the war. The question is merely how many more innocent Ukrainians need to die before Zelensky and his handlers accept it. Anything other than the stark reality that this is the only solution is hollow. But since the money laundering engine has been turned off, I expect Ukraine will agree in short order.

As for exactly who in NATO were the architects of this plan to grab Ukraine's mineral rights, that's a subject that is open for debate. But Ukraine never had a chance for victory.

Who is the clown who told you that putin will be satisfied with territories he succeeded to occupy until now? I clearly remember him threatening Europe and Nato before invasion to Ukraine. I also clearly remember him stating many times that Ukraine as a state has no right to exist. The only reason he changed his rhetorics (temporary) was the heroic resistance if the Ukrainian people. The next step is whole Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland and whatever territory putin might like to consider as a part of his Empire. This is the most likely scenario the useful idiots in the West will have to face after they betray Ukraine. Peace? Dream on!

AlexRich · February 13

We are watching Ukraine and US allies being sold down the river in real time by Putin’s obedient poodle Donald Trump.

But trashing your closest allies will come back to bite you when both China and Russia try to destroy you. There will be no desire to help you out … like we did with your preposterous invasion of Iraq.

AlexRich · February 13

5 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Who is the clown who told you that putin will be satisfied with territories he succeeded to occupy until now? I clearly remember him threatening Europe and Nato before invasion to Ukraine. The only reason he changed his rhetorics (temporary) was the heroic resistance if the Ukrainian people. The next step is whole Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland and whatever territory putin might like to consider as a part of his Empire. This is the most likely scenario the useful idiots in the West will have to face after they betray Ukraine. Peace? Dream on!

Trump is worse than Chamberlain, because even Chamberlain wasn’t obedient to Hitler. This will go down as the beginning of the end for the US empire … allies won’t support you anymore.

bkk6060 · February 13

The hypocrites NATO and Euro leaders bad mouthing Trump who wants and probably will resolve it. While the other country leaders have had 3 years to try and get something done, but have their stupid thumbs up their you know what.

Weak and scared.

TheAppletons · February 13

I realize this is an absolutely crazy idea but....shouldn't the countries of Europe defend against aggression toward the other countries of Europe?

theblether · February 13

13 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Who is the clown who told you that putin will be satisfied with territories he succeeded to occupy until now? I clearly remember him threatening Europe and Nato before invasion to Ukraine. I also clearly remember him stating many times that Ukraine as a state has no right to exist. The only reason he changed his rhetorics (temporary) was the heroic resistance if the Ukrainian people. The next step is whole Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland and whatever territory putin might like to consider as a part of his Empire. This is the most likely scenario the useful idiots in the West will have to face after they betray Ukraine. Peace? Dream on!

This is why I never comment on these threads. They are full of lunatics like you spouting delirious drivel.

The Baltic States and Poland are all NATO states, unlike Ukraine. Under no circumstances will Putin step a foot into any of these countries - no chance.

uncletiger · February 13

16 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Who is the clown who told you that putin will be satisfied with territories he succeeded to occupy until now? I clearly remember him threatening Europe and Nato before invasion to Ukraine. I also clearly remember him stating many times that Ukraine as a state has no right to exist. The only reason he changed his rhetorics (temporary) was the heroic resistance if the Ukrainian people. The next step is whole Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland and whatever territory putin might like to consider as a part of his Empire. This is the most likely scenario the useful idiots in the West will have to face after they betray Ukraine. Peace? Dream on!

Nonsensical propaganda. Debunked many times over. But believe what you will. Putin is no danger to Europe unless you try and provoke him as Ukraine did.

Hellfire · February 13

8 minutes ago, theblether said:

This is why I never comment on these threads. They are full of lunatics like you spouting delirious drivel.

The Baltic States and Poland are all NATO states, unlike Ukraine. Under no circumstances will Putin step a foot into any of these countries - no chance.

You can keep repeating this mantra: “never ever”. Betray Ukraine, show Putin your weakness, show him you are ready to betray your partner any time, show him that you are afraid to confront him, that you piss yourself every time he pronounces the word “nuclear” - this is all that is needed for him not to give a damn about Nato or whatever name you give this organization consisting of cowards. Just read the history book, read about Hitler and Czechoslovakia before you call me lunatic.

rabas · February 13

4 minutes ago, uncletiger said:

Nonsensical propaganda. Debunked many times over. But believe what you will. Putin is no danger to Europe unless you try and provoke him as Ukraine did.

Debunked by who? Vlad and team threatening to nuke European cities almost daily? Developing new and horrific doomsday weapons. EU countries scrambling to up there defenses? increase their defense budgets? Or simply all past history?

Yagoda · February 13

23 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Who is the clown who told you that putin will be satisfied with territories he succeeded to occupy until now? I clearly remember him threatening Europe and Nato before invasion to Ukraine. I also clearly remember him stating many times that Ukraine as a state has no right to exist. The only reason he changed his rhetorics (temporary) was the heroic resistance if the Ukrainian people. The next step is whole Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland and whatever territory putin might like to consider as a part of his Empire. This is the most likely scenario the useful idiots in the West will have to face after they betray Ukraine. Peace? Dream on!

Spoken like a Ukrainian shill. Betray what? A two bit fake country propped up by the world just to annoy Russia?

Russias military is gone. They are using T-34s for gods sake. They arent a threat to anyone anymore. Now its time for y'all to cut your losses and make peace and be lucky you have left what could be considered "Ukraine" to continue your National Socialist corruption in.

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

We are watching Ukraine and US allies being sold down the river in real time by Putin’s obedient poodle Donald Trump.

But trashing your closest allies will come back to bite you when both China and Russia try to destroy you. There will be no desire to help you out … like we did with your preposterous invasion of Iraq.

Closest allies? You mean leaches that suck off us daily while spitting in our faces? Putins Obedient poodle? More lies, as you insult the ones who keep him off your sorry asses. Even with his T-34s he would put all of you on the run. Hell, just light a firecracker and the French will surrender.

Why dont you go to the American cemeteries in Europe and say thank you instead of dissing us on line?

Your useless little countries will do what they are told when they are told. Dont like it? Go suck off Xi. See how you like being their servants instead of ours.

FAFO, we are waiting.

Hellfire · February 13

21 minutes ago, uncletiger said:

Nonsensical propaganda. Debunked many times over. But believe what you will. Putin is no danger to Europe unless you try and provoke him as Ukraine did.

The issue isn't merely your lack of knowledge about Putin, Russia, and this war. The real problem is that, despite having zero understanding in this area, you still presume to judge how easy and simple it would be to establish peace by betraying a Western ally, abandoning them to a maniacal tyrant, and disregarding the hundreds of thousands of heroes who have given their lives fighting against this global evil.

uncletiger · February 13

1 minute ago, Hellfire said:

The issue isn't merely your lack of knowledge about Putin, Russia, and this war. The real problem is that, despite having zero understanding in this area, you still presume to judge how easy and simple it would be to establish peace by betraying a Western ally, abandoning them to a maniacal tyrant, and disregarding the hundreds of thousands of heroes who have given their lives fighting against this global evil.

Who is the ally? You mean Ukraine? The money laundering agent?

My concern is only for the innocent people who are being killed in this unnecessary and completely invented war by the globalist elite. There are no "allies" that need help. Europe is not in danger. Stop listening to propaganda.

theblether · February 13

21 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

You can keep repeating this mantra: “never ever”. Betray Ukraine, show Putin your weakness, show him you are ready to betray your partner any time, show him that you are afraid to confront him, that you piss yourself every time he pronounces the word “nuclear” - this is all that is needed for him not to give a damn about Nato or whatever name you give this organization consisting of cowards. Just read the history book, read about Hitler and Czechoslovakia before you call me lunatic.

Correct. I will repeat the mantra. You need to be mentally ill if you think Putin is in the Kremlin thinking the Ukrainian invasion went well, lets go pick a fight with NATO now.

Hellfire · February 13

6 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Spoken like a Ukrainian shill. Betray what? A two bit fake country propped up by the world just to annoy Russia?

Russias military is gone. They are using T-34s for gods sake. They arent a threat to anyone anymore. Now its time for y'all to cut your losses and make peace and be lucky you have left what could be considered "Ukraine" to continue your National Socialist corruption in.

Closest allies? You mean leaches that suck off us daily while spitting in our faces? Putins Obedient poodle? More lies, as you insult the ones who keep him off your sorry asses. Even with his T-34s he would put all of you on the run. Hell, just light a firecracker and the French will surrender.

Why dont you go to the American cemeteries in Europe and say thank you instead of dissing us on line?

Your useless little countries will do what they are told when they are told. Dont like it? Go suck off Xi. See how you like being their servants instead of ours.

FAFO, we are waiting.

Another couple of threats to use nuclear weapons, and people like you will agree to give Putin whatever he desires. After Ukraine, the Baltic countries will follow, then Poland, Georgia... You will betray everyone and find millions of reasons not to defend your (now former) partners. Cowards always find excuses for their cowardice. Ukrainians—a heroic people who have thrown all their strength into the fight against global evil—easily become leeches in your eyes, sucking your money. Putin can rest assured—with the same ease, you will change your stance and come up with false accusations and justifications for the Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, and anyone else.

Hellfire · February 13

7 minutes ago, theblether said:

Correct. I will repeat the mantra. You need to be mentally ill if you think Putin is in the Kremlin thinking the Ukrainian invasion went well, lets go pick a fight with NATO now.

Demonstrating impotence to a dictator and then hoping he will never again infringe upon your interests is a profoundly misguided approach. History has shown that appeasement often emboldens aggressors, leading to further demands and conflicts. A notable example is the Munich Agreement of 1938, where concessions to Hitler's Germany did not prevent war but rather encouraged further aggression.

Therefore, the situation is quite the opposite: showing weakness invites more challenges, while demonstrating strength and resolve can deter potential aggressors.

Hellfire · February 13

13 minutes ago, uncletiger said:

Who is the ally? You mean Ukraine? The money laundering agent?

My concern is only for the innocent people who are being killed in this unnecessary and completely invented war by the globalist elite. There are no "allies" that need help. Europe is not in danger. Stop listening to propaganda.

You seem to think that Putin is as small-minded as you are. However, despite his many significant flaws, Putin cannot be accused of pettiness. He is a tyrant who plays on a grand scale. To believe that he will be satisfied with some insignificant regions of Ukraine and forget about his wild fantasies of restoring the Soviet Union is a notion only small-minded individuals could entertain. Do not measure others by your own standards; that is a mistake.

Jingthing · February 13

1 minute ago, Hellfire said:

You seem to think that Putin is as small-minded as you are. However, despite his many significant flaws, Putin cannot be accused of pettiness. He is a tyrant who plays on a grand scale. To believe that he will be satisfied with some insignificant regions of Ukraine and forget about his wild fantasies of restoring the Soviet Union is a notion only small-minded individuals could entertain. Do not measure others by your own standards; that is a mistake.

This "deal" is set to not give Ukraine real security guarantees and set Putin up to make sure Ukraine can't have a functioning government and he will chip away at them that way with his usual election control games. And yes of course the Baltics, Moldova, and Poland are next. China too will be very emboldened by this.

Musk -- Trump -- who's side are they really on?

It's pretty obvious if you're paying attention.

Hellfire · February 13

To label Ukrainians, who have been sacrificing their lives daily and shedding their own blood on the battlefields for nearly three years, as leeches, money launderers, or swindlers is beyond my comprehension of good and evil; it surpasses any sense of decency. Such remarks are the musings of talking flies, utterly ignorant of human dignity. Is this truly the real face of Trump's supporters? I would hate to believe it!

Yagoda · February 13

15 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Another couple of threats to use nuclear weapons, and people like you will agree to give Putin whatever he desires. After Ukraine, the Baltic countries will follow, then Poland, Georgia... You will betray everyone and find millions of reasons not to defend your (now former) partners. Cowards always find excuses for their cowardice. Ukrainians—a heroic people who have thrown all their strength into the fight against global evil—easily become leeches in your eyes, sucking your money. Putin can rest assured—with the same ease, you will change your stance and come up with false accusations and justifications for the Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, and anyone else.

Ukraine isnt a country and never was until Russia was too weak to keep it. Ukrainians arent heroic, they happily murder women and children like the rest of the Socialists and are just as barbaric as their Russian brothers. Getting involved in this family feud was a waste of money

theblether · February 13

16 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Demonstrating impotence to a dictator and then hoping he will never again infringe upon your interests is a profoundly misguided approach. History has shown that appeasement often emboldens aggressors, leading to further demands and conflicts. A notable example is the Munich Agreement of 1938, where concessions to Hitler's Germany did not prevent war but rather encouraged further aggression.

Therefore, the situation is quite the opposite: showing weakness invites more challenges, while demonstrating strength and resolve can deter potential aggressors.

The pitiful thing is you truly believe you are correct.

Take it up with both Joe Biden and Barack Obama who both blank refused to put US boots on the ground to assist Ukraine. It's no fluke both invasions happened under Democrat administrations.

Yagoda · February 13

25 minutes ago, theblether said:

Correct. I will repeat the mantra. You need to be mentally ill if you think Putin is in the Kremlin thinking the Ukrainian invasion went well, lets go pick a fight with NATO now.

To that extent, its a victory for us. We dont have to worry about how to handle T-34s rolling through the Sulwaki Gap, 30mm will take them right out without even wasting a misslie.

Yagoda · February 13

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This "deal" is set to not give Ukraine real security guarantees and set Putin up to make sure Ukraine can't have a functioning government and he will chip away at them that way with his usual election control games. And yes of course the Baltics, Moldova, and Poland are next. China too will be very emboldened by this.

Musk -- Trump -- who's side are they really on?

It's pretty obvious if you're paying attention.

Your analysis of the situation is as meretricious and fantasy laden as all your other thousands and thousands of lying screeches.,

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