Lots Of Buddhists In Thailand

[brahmburgers]

There are many Buddhists in Thailand, but only a small % seem to follow Buddhist ways in the real sense.

Much like Christians in farang countries, Buddhists here go through the motions - especially on designated days - and they 'talk the talk' but it's usually just skin deep. Scratch the surface of a Thai Buddhist and you'll see craving consumerism and/or raving anger / jealousy / vindictiveness, you name it - all the same stuff that people everywhere have going on.

here is my nutshell spin on Buddhism, and any 100 people can find 200 flaws in my outlook, so be it:

#1 non-attachment. ...especially to worldly things. Even monks rarely get that one in a deep way. All people have attachments: to getting rich, to their families, to their possessions, to their vanity.

A person who is really non-attached, is someone who can not be offended - because showing offense indicates there are still attachments (to pride, vanity, fixed ideas of culture, etc). Do you know anyone who can not be offended? I doubt you do.

#2 attain spiritual enlightenment. All people have the potential. Only a few know about it. Of those that know, only a tiny % are striving for it. Of those that strive for it, only a small % attain it. As Krsna (embodiment of spiritual enlightenment, Hindu style) said: "Of every 1,000 people, only one seeks me. Of every 1,000 people who seek me, one finds me." Spritual enlightenment is attaining a measure of higher consciousness. It is a different reality, sort of like walking through a door to get to another place (poetically articulated in The Doors' song title; "Break on Through to the Other Side). I've experienced some of that and maybe you have also - it's a whole different space - best described as blissful awareness.

Suggested audio book: Life Story of Milarepa ....look it up, if interested in reading/hearing about a 100% enlightened person. Milarepa was a Tibetan Buddhist who lived 900 years ago in the Himalayas. And of course, there's always the great inspiration of the Buddha's life. Try and find a relatively simple real-life narration, without a lot of flowery praise. The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

brahmburgers

[jumnien]

Go to Wat Tham Seua in Krabi and try to hang out a little with Ajahn Jumnien, he's pretty cool. Go back in the forest and climb the ladders into the back valley and wait for a little nun to come out of the forest and show you around, she's really cool. Seek and you shall find. Inspire others and accept their encouragement on the path. Smile in the face of cynicism.

[Brucenkhamen]

There are many Buddhists in Thailand, but only a small % seem to follow Buddhist ways in the real sense.

Sounds like you've summed up the situation pretty well, so what are you going to do about it?

If you are one of the small % then go for it, don't let what you see around you be a discouragement.

Like mdeland I've met some practitioners that are pretty cool, I don't know if they are enlightened or not, I certainly didn't get any magical vibes from them, but I think the lives they are leading are worthwhile.

[chownah]

The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

I really doubt that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted at anything. In my view, incredulity and disgust are not really what the Buddha advocates...instead he teaches equanimity as an element of the Path....in my view.

Chownah

[brahmburgers]

The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

I really doubt that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted at anything. In my view, incredulity and disgust are not really what the Buddha advocates...instead he teaches equanimity as an element of the Path....in my view.

Chownah

of course no one alive today knows just how Gotuma Buddha would react to things as he traveled around, met with people, observed things. We can speculate, however. The Buddha was perhaps many things - but he was also a living breathing man. He didn't walk through life with a carved-in-stone serenity, as one might imagine, if one took the millions of statues to depict his round-the-clock countenance too literally. He smiled, he joked, he may even have been repulsed at times. The iconic Buddha images of gold-plated or polished stone are just that; iconic images, and usually depict him sitting in deep meditation (most often they depict his initial attainment of Samahdi under the Bo tree) - and that's fine.

[jumnien]

The "What would Jesus do?" phenomenon in the United States was bad enough. Let's not go too far with this "What would Buddha Think?" trend.

[CMexpat]

"They laity of all faiths take from their religion whatever they require or what suits their personal circumstances". I find this to be very true for Buddhist in Thailand.

[chownah]

The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

I really doubt that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted at anything. In my view, incredulity and disgust are not really what the Buddha advocates...instead he teaches equanimity as an element of the Path....in my view.

Chownah

of course no one alive today knows just how Gotuma Buddha would react to things as he traveled around, met with people, observed things. We can speculate, however. The Buddha was perhaps many things - but he was also a living breathing man. He didn't walk through life with a carved-in-stone serenity, as one might imagine, if one took the millions of statues to depict his round-the-clock countenance too literally. He smiled, he joked, he may even have been repulsed at times. The iconic Buddha images of gold-plated or polished stone are just that; iconic images, and usually depict him sitting in deep meditation (most often they depict his initial attainment of Samahdi under the Bo tree) - and that's fine.

You start by saying that we don't know what the Buddha was like....and then you proceed to tell me what he was like.

Perhaps you believe that all people have your sensitivities and would be incredulous or disgusted by what goes on at temples. I'm a rice farmer. I am aware of the many things that go on in temples and I am not incredulous nor am I disgusted....I see it for what it is, namely, people's attachments and intentions being given full attention and indulgence. In case you haven't noticed this seems to be the general human condition and my view is that it should not be surprising to see it going on in some temples given the multiple uses and attitudes that people have towards temples....I really can't see from what is written in the Theravada Scriptures that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted by anything in the world. I think it is clear that we have different views of what the Buddha was like.

Chownah

[Austhaied]

The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

I really doubt that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted at anything. In my view, incredulity and disgust are not really what the Buddha advocates...instead he teaches equanimity as an element of the Path....in my view.

Chownah

of course no one alive today knows just how Gotuma Buddha would react to things as he traveled around, met with people, observed things. We can speculate, however. The Buddha was perhaps many things - but he was also a living breathing man. He didn't walk through life with a carved-in-stone serenity, as one might imagine, if one took the millions of statues to depict his round-the-clock countenance too literally. He smiled, he joked, he may even have been repulsed at times. The iconic Buddha images of gold-plated or polished stone are just that; iconic images, and usually depict him sitting in deep meditation (most often they depict his initial attainment of Samahdi under the Bo tree) - and that's fine.

You start by saying that we don't know what the Buddha was like....and then you proceed to tell me what he was like.

Perhaps you believe that all people have your sensitivities and would be incredulous or disgusted by what goes on at temples. I'm a rice farmer. I am aware of the many things that go on in temples and I am not incredulous nor am I disgusted....I see it for what it is, namely, people's attachments and intentions being given full attention and indulgence. In case you haven't noticed this seems to be the general human condition and my view is that it should not be surprising to see it going on in some temples given the multiple uses and attitudes that people have towards temples....I really can't see from what is written in the Theravada Scriptures that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted by anything in the world. I think it is clear that we have different views of what the Buddha was like.

Chownah

Agreed. well said.

[brahmburgers]

The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

I really doubt that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted at anything. In my view, incredulity and disgust are not really what the Buddha advocates...instead he teaches equanimity as an element of the Path....in my view.

Chownah

of course no one alive today knows just how Gotuma Buddha would react to things as he traveled around, met with people, observed things. We can speculate, however. The Buddha was perhaps many things - but he was also a living breathing man. He didn't walk through life with a carved-in-stone serenity, as one might imagine, if one took the millions of statues to depict his round-the-clock countenance too literally. He smiled, he joked, he may even have been repulsed at times. The iconic Buddha images of gold-plated or polished stone are just that; iconic images, and usually depict him sitting in deep meditation (most often they depict his initial attainment of Samahdi under the Bo tree) - and that's fine.

You start by saying that we don't know what the Buddha was like....and then you proceed to tell me what he was like.

Perhaps you believe that all people have your sensitivities and would be incredulous or disgusted by what goes on at temples. I'm a rice farmer. I am aware of the many things that go on in temples and I am not incredulous nor am I disgusted....I see it for what it is, namely, people's attachments and intentions being given full attention and indulgence. In case you haven't noticed this seems to be the general human condition and my view is that it should not be surprising to see it going on in some temples given the multiple uses and attitudes that people have towards temples....I really can't see from what is written in the Theravada Scriptures that the Buddha would be incredulous or disgusted by anything in the world. I think it is clear that we have different views of what the Buddha was like.

Chownah

Agreed. well said.

Among other things, TV is a forum to express opinions. My orginal post mentioned several things, but the one item that touched upon speculation (that the Buddha had a personality, and was not a carved-in-stone countenance) has fired up some responses - ok. In such forums, with everyone taking on assumed names, it's easy to pick the one seemingly controversal item from someone else's post, and hack away at it - that's ok also.

I think the gist of my post was observing the widespread and ingrained hippocracy inherent in much of the Thai populace who consider themselves devout Buddhists. Much the same can be said about adherents to other religions. If I advocate anything, I advocate a more realistic and honest meld between one's philosophical leanings and one's day-to-day actions and speech.

[jumnien]

I've been here ten years and I've heard many Thais identify themselves as buddhist. I don't think I've ever heard any of them describe themselves as "devout" buddhists. They don't think of themselves as buddhists because of something they have chosen to believe in; they think of themselves as buddhists in the same way they think of themselves as Thai, they were born that way. They are pretty comfortable with that. They are not out to prove what great buddhists they have chosen to be. You see this much more amongst farang dharma-seekers where spiritual pride rears its ugly head quite regularly. Just my two baht; back to my tea.

[bankei]

The "What would Jesus do?" phenomenon in the United States was bad enough. Let's not go too far with this "What would Buddha Think?" trend.

There are already two books on this, by an American author:

What Would Buddha Do at Work? 101 Answers to Workplace Dilemmas by Franz Metcalf

and

What Would Buddha Do? by Franz Metcalf

!

Bankei

[brahmburgers]

I've been here ten years and I've heard many Thais identify themselves as buddhist. I don't think I've ever heard any of them describe themselves as "devout" buddhists. They don't think of themselves as buddhists because of something they have chosen to believe in; they think of themselves as buddhists in the same way they think of themselves as Thai, they were born that way. They are pretty comfortable with that. They are not out to prove what great buddhists they have chosen to be. You see this much more amongst farang dharma-seekers where spiritual pride rears its ugly head quite regularly. Just my two baht; back to my tea.

mdeland, you're just playing trickster with semantics. Thais may not use the word 'devout' to refer to their level of interest in Buddhism any more than they use the word 'intensive' to describe their consumer habits at the shopping mall. but most Thais will vehemently assert their deep adherence to Buddhism if challenged.

From your perspective, Thais accept Buddhism in a blase way, rather like blandly accepting there's oxygen in the air (...yea air sustains me and there's lots of it, so what's the big deal?).

It's somewhat akin to my earlier comparison of Christians in the States to Buddhists in Thailand: Most people who call themselves Christians, do so in a perfunctory way, go to church for 2 hours a week and that's about it.

Similarly, most Thais who call themselves Buddhists go through the motions when expected (by societies' dictates) but are regular folks for the the other 166 hours of the week. I'm not saying there are none here that embrace the teachings of Buddha in their day to day lives - that would be absurb statement. I'm commenting on day to day observations of peoples' words and acts.

'walk the walk,' not just 'talk the talk.'

[sabaijai]

The topic has been addressed ad nauseum on this subforum. It's obvious that Buddhism as an organised religion, 'Buddhists' as persons who identify themselves as such, and our own personal perspectives on Buddhism all diverge substantially.

What's that saying about mistaking the ideal for the real?

[rychrde]

Interesting that although you talk about the Buddha your one reference is Milarepa, a very different tradition to that found in Thailand. If that is what you seek, then you will have to carry it with you, for it ain't here! sorry.

rych

[phloiwang]

Hi brahm

Perhaps you are so disappointed with thai Buddhists you might have anticipated it before you had moved to Chiangrai. I 80% agree with your opinion towards Thai Buddhists perceived materialistic these days.

I hope you know Samana Potirak of Asoke sect. Because of his similar ideas with yours, he has introduced what many Thai Buddhists call his and his advocates "extreme" or too "devout" faith. For instance, they are vegans. They wear no shoes. They seriously hold at least five precepts. They wear simple clothes. (Almost) no Buddha images and no aulets there. they try to annihilate any kilesa any times it emerges in their minds, and so on.

If this is what you wish, go or study or join them or up to you.

We Thai have perceived this phenomenon for years. There were occasionally headlines in the paper or in TV within four decades I have heard and read of warnings that Thais became more and more materialistic. But there was sth. surprising like, a Dhamma book being the best seller a few years ago. At least two young monks are so popular in their talks and we often see them on TV. Perhaps Thais are about to be tired of consumerism and back to their pleasure of material poverty as in the past and let other materialistic tribes become richer and dominate the country.

[raindrops]

One beauty of Buddhism is that you can do as little or as much as you like....for it is all about yourself and no one else. Buddhism, although sounds simple, is far from easy. ...even if you think you already know the right direction, it's still going to take you more than a few hundred life time to get even near the gate of nirvana. People are people, that's why we are all still here. Perhaps, compassion is your key....start "walking the walk" yourself.....let it go and let other people do whatever they choose to do....

[brahmburgers]

Hi brahm

Perhaps you are so disappointed with thai Buddhists you might have anticipated it before you had moved to Chiangrai. I 80% agree with your opinion towards Thai Buddhists perceived materialistic these days.

I hope you know Samana Potirak of Asoke sect. Because of his similar ideas with yours, he has introduced what many Thai Buddhists call his and his advocates "extreme" or too "devout" faith. For instance, they are vegans. They wear no shoes. They seriously hold at least five precepts. They wear simple clothes. (Almost) no Buddha images and no aulets there. they try to annihilate any kilesa any times it emerges in their minds, and so on.

If this is what you wish, go or study or join them or up to you.

We Thai have perceived this phenomenon for years. There were occasionally headlines in the paper or in TV within four decades I have heard and read of warnings that Thais became more and more materialistic. But there was sth. surprising like, a Dhamma book being the best seller a few years ago. At least two young monks are so popular in their talks and we often see them on TV. Perhaps Thais are about to be tired of consumerism and back to their pleasure of material poverty as in the past and let other materialistic tribes become richer and dominate the country.

I hadn't heard of Samana Potirak before - sounds interesting. Neither have I heard of many other men and women in Thailand who embrace Buddhist precepts in dynamic ways. However, my OP was not a commentary on 'those who are attained.' Rather, it was some personal observations of words and acts of the general population. I also acknowledge that people are people and are renerally imperfect in the myriad ways they manifest day to day. Too bad they're not perfect like me (ha ha, chortle ha). There's a zen koan that talks of a monk who spends decades in seclusion while tuning in to nirvana (or whatever you choose to call it). The koan ends with him returning to his village and 'entering the marketplace with open arms' (that's also the name of the koan).

There are some people on TVisa who, when they decide to dis (tear apart, find fault with) someone's post - they're quite adept at doing so. Nothing I can say will change that, but just so you know: anybody can tear apart any argument if they so choose. For example, take any statement ('the sky is blue / the sun is yellow / water is wet ....etc) and if I was so inclined, I could develop a contrary argument to prove that 'the sky is not blue' or 'the sun is not yellow' or 'water is not really wet'.

I just mention this on the long shot that maybe, just maybe, some of those contrarians will take a moment to think about lightening up. I know it's easy to blast in to someone else's opinion, especially when hiding behind an assumed name - but there are other ways to join the discussion. ...or maybe it's just more fun to be contrarian. I can hear it now' "No it's not more fun to be contrarian, Brahmburgers! Plus you too use an assumed name online!"

[tijnebijn]

I've been here ten years and I've heard many Thais identify themselves as buddhist. I don't think I've ever heard any of them describe themselves as "devout" buddhists. They don't think of themselves as buddhists because of something they have chosen to believe in; they think of themselves as buddhists in the same way they think of themselves as Thai, they were born that way. They are pretty comfortable with that. They are not out to prove what great buddhists they have chosen to be. You see this much more amongst farang dharma-seekers where spiritual pride rears its ugly head quite regularly. Just my two baht; back to my tea.

mdeland, you're just playing trickster with semantics. Thais may not use the word 'devout' to refer to their level of interest in Buddhism any more than they use the word 'intensive' to describe their consumer habits at the shopping mall. but most Thais will vehemently assert their deep adherence to Buddhism if challenged.

From your perspective, Thais accept Buddhism in a blase way, rather like blandly accepting there's oxygen in the air (...yea air sustains me and there's lots of it, so what's the big deal?).

It's somewhat akin to my earlier comparison of Christians in the States to Buddhists in Thailand: Most people who call themselves Christians, do so in a perfunctory way, go to church for 2 hours a week and that's about it.

Similarly, most Thais who call themselves Buddhists go through the motions when expected (by societies' dictates) but are regular folks for the the other 166 hours of the week. I'm not saying there are none here that embrace the teachings of Buddha in their day to day lives - that would be absurb statement. I'm commenting on day to day observations of peoples' words and acts.

'walk the walk,' not just 'talk the talk.'

I do get your point Brhamburger .

Ofcourse you are right . They are fooling themselves to say they are Buddhist , don't forget people Buddhism is not a religion.

It is a wisdom , philosophy . It is understanding , knowing how things in life should be .

Looking at the Thais it is more about superstition and scared about consequences , like he is a God from the movie Odysseus .

No , it is a way of living and what I think the Op meant is basically right , it is an observation .

People who disagree with that should read anything from the Dalai Lama , and learnn how he thinks Buddhism is all about.

[sabaijai]

There are many Buddhists in Thailand, but only a small % seem to follow Buddhist ways in the real sense.

Much like Christians in farang countries, Buddhists here go through the motions - especially on designated days - and they 'talk the talk' but it's usually just skin deep. Scratch the surface of a Thai Buddhist and you'll see craving consumerism and/or raving anger / jealousy / vindictiveness, you name it - all the same stuff that people everywhere have going on.

here is my nutshell spin on Buddhism, and any 100 people can find 200 flaws in my outlook, so be it:

#1 non-attachment. ...especially to worldly things. Even monks rarely get that one in a deep way. All people have attachments: to getting rich, to their families, to their possessions, to their vanity.

A person who is really non-attached, is someone who can not be offended - because showing offense indicates there are still attachments (to pride, vanity, fixed ideas of culture, etc). Do you know anyone who can not be offended? I doubt you do.

#2 attain spiritual enlightenment. All people have the potential. Only a few know about it. Of those that know, only a tiny % are striving for it. Of those that strive for it, only a small % attain it. As Krsna (embodiment of spiritual enlightenment, Hindu style) said: "Of every 1,000 people, only one seeks me. Of every 1,000 people who seek me, one finds me." Spritual enlightenment is attaining a measure of higher consciousness. It is a different reality, sort of like walking through a door to get to another place (poetically articulated in The Doors' song title; "Break on Through to the Other Side). I've experienced some of that and maybe you have also - it's a whole different space - best described as blissful awareness.

Suggested audio book: Life Story of Milarepa ....look it up, if interested in reading/hearing about a 100% enlightened person. Milarepa was a Tibetan Buddhist who lived 900 years ago in the Himalayas. And of course, there's always the great inspiration of the Buddha's life. Try and find a relatively simple real-life narration, without a lot of flowery praise. The Buddha was one cool cat. He would be alternately incredulous and disgusted at the manifold icons and cr*p that are displayed everywhere in his name.

brahmburgers

Thank you for your position statement.