Can I renew my son's Thai passport if my wife is abroad?

[rattlesnake]

I will be travelling from Thailand to France with my 12 year-old son in July, for a few weeks. My Thai wife is already there and will not be coming back to Thailand in the meantime. My son's Thai passport expired last year (we simply completely forgot about it), but his French passport is valid.

 

I am thinking of not doing anything, based on the assumption that it will be no problem to leave and return to Thailand on an expired Thai passport, provided the French one is valid. Is my assumption correct?

 

In any case, if I were to renew his Thai passport myself without my wife being present, is this easily done, or would she need to provide some paperwork such as an authorisation/proxy obtained from the Thai embassy in Paris? (This is an avenue I would rather avoid if possible).

 

Thanks in advance for your insights.

[BrandonJT]

How did he enter Thailand? Did he last enter Thailand using his Thai passport?  That may make a difference in the overall scheme of things.

[richard_smith237]

I recall from renewing my Sons Thai's passport - both Parents need to be present.

 

If one of the parents is not present, I believe a Power of Attorney from Thai Embassy / or consulate must be secured.

 

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Regarding 'exiting' Thailand on an expired Thai Passport and using the Passport of Dual Nationality (French in this case) to travel on - I think its risky and Immigration may not permit exit on an expired Thai Passport. 

 

I'd advise to cover my bases and get the PoA, then have the Passport renewed in Thailand.

[rattlesnake]

19 minutes ago, BrandonJT said:

How did he enter Thailand? Did he last enter Thailand using his Thai passport?  That may make a difference in the overall scheme of things.

 

Yes, he always enters Thailand using his Thai passport.

[rattlesnake]

19 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recall from renewing my Sons Thai's passport - both Parents need to be present.

 

If one of the parents is not present, I believe a Power of Attorney from Thai Embassy / or consulate must be secured.

 

------

 

Regarding 'exiting' Thailand on an expired Thai Passport and using the Passport of Dual Nationality (French in this case) to travel on - I think its risky and Immigration may not permit exit on an expired Thai Passport. 

 

I'd advise to cover my bases and get the PoA, then have the Passport renewed in Thailand.

 

Thanks Richard, I will see what other people have to say, but if there is any doubt, we will play it safe and my wife will go to the Thai embassy (fortunately she is in the Paris area) to obtain the PoA.

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Thanks Richard, I will see what other people have to say, but if there is any doubt, we will play it safe and my wife will go to the Thai embassy (fortunately she is in the Paris area) to obtain the PoA.

 

One of the other facets to consider - the Passport Office in Thailand may want to see an Original Document - thus: Timing plays a key factor in getting the original posted over.

 

 

I'm not sure of this of course - but Thailand does like its 'originals'...  With other documents when an original is required, I've sometimes got away with a coloured print (depending on the office and individual officer).

 

 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

Richards reply is right. I will be going to the US embassy this week to renew my daughter's US passport, as she needs that one to leave Thailand, and uses the Thai passport to re- enter without needing a Visa. We're going to the US in November so getting that passport started soon as possible is good. It takes up to a month to be delivered to your house. It's best to contact the embassy to make sure.

[marin]

Two years ago my daughter returned to Thailand with both a US and Thai passport. But both the Thai passport and ID were expired. The IO advised her to enter on her American as it was valid. She said "No" I am going from the airport to the Amphur office to get a new ID, then I will go to the Passport Office on CW and get a new passport. So was entered on the Thai passport that was expired. But told " You now have to renew your Thai passport in order to leave the country". The new ID took 30 minutes, 1 hour in the passport office and a new one came via EMS in 3 days, so no worries. 

[KannikaP]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recall from renewing my Sons Thai's passport - both Parents need to be present.

What if the Father is unavailable or even Unknown?

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recall from renewing my Sons Thai's passport - both Parents need to be present.

What if the Father is unavailable or even Unknown?

 

If the father is 'unknown' then he is not listed on the birth certificate, the mother does not need his consent to apply for or renew the child’s passport.

The mother can apply alone as the sole parent with full parental authority.

 

 

If the father is legally recognised (i.e., his name is on the Thai birth certificate), but he’s simply unavailable, then things get a little trickier.

I believe a court ruling that grants the mother sole custody or full parental power is required.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

36 minutes ago, marin said:

Two years ago my daughter returned to Thailand with both a US and Thai passport. But both the Thai passport and ID were expired. The IO advised her to enter on her American as it was valid. She said "No" I am going from the airport to the Amphur office to get a new ID, then I will go to the Passport Office on CW and get a new passport. So was entered on the Thai passport that was expired.

 

I believe this is because a Thai national cannot legally be refused entry into Thailand. Even with an expired passport, they can still prove their Thai citizenship. The immigration officer may have been incorrect or simply trying to offer a workaround by suggesting your daughter enter on her US passport. However, since she holds dual nationality, Thai law requires that she enter and exit Thailand using her Thai passport. From a legal standpoint, her Thai citizenship takes precedence when dealing with Thai immigration.

 

36 minutes ago, marin said:

But told " You now have to renew your Thai passport in order to leave the country". The new ID took 30 minutes, 1 hour in the passport office and a new one came via EMS in 3 days, so no worries. 

 

This offers first hand experience for rattlesnake (the Op) - where your daughter was effectively told she cannot exit Thailand on expired documentation. 

 

 

[marin]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

However, since she holds dual nationality, Thai law requires that she enter and exit Thailand using her Thai passport.

 But that is never checked. To my amazement her twin sister managed to do just what you said is illegal. Tired from the long flight she just pulled out her passport and gave it to IO, but it was the US passport. At that time stamped in for one month. She was staying 25 days so she just left on the US passport. I could not believe she spaced out and did that. Thai passport in her purse the whole time. 

[BrandonJT]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

However, since she holds dual nationality, Thai law requires that she enter and exit Thailand using her Thai passport. From a legal standpoint, her Thai citizenship takes precedence when dealing with Thai immigration.

Thai law does not require a Thai person to enter on their Thai passport. But if they enter on another passport they will be treated as a foreigner as far as immigration is concerned and will have to do extensions.

[Sheryl]

Totally aside from renewing the passport, a father traveling abroad with a child may be asked to show proof that he has the mother's consent (concerns about parental abduction, human trafficking etc). There have been reports of this happening. 

 

So get the POA and make sure it, or another document, clearly give you permission to take the child abroad.

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Totally aside from renewing the passport, a father traveling abroad with a child may be asked to show proof that he has the mother's consent (concerns about parental abduction, human trafficking etc). There have been reports of this happening. 

 

So get the POA sland make sure it, or another dovument, clearly give you permission to take the child abroad.

 

Great Point... 

 

While I have never been asked (2x) and neither has my Wife, while travelling with our child without the 'other parent' - a couple of friends have been questioned. They didn't have any documentation, however, a phone call to the 'other party' was carried out.

 

We always travel with a form, which 'should' be translated and notarised by the local Amphur, but we never go that far.

 

This is the form we use (unfortunately I had to save as JPEG as this site doesn't allow loading an MS word or PDF document).

 

 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, marin said:

 But that is never checked. To my amazement her twin sister managed to do just what you said is illegal. Tired from the long flight she just pulled out her passport and gave it to IO, but it was the US passport. At that time stamped in for one month. She was staying 25 days so she just left on the US passport. I could not believe she spaced out and did that. Thai passport in her purse the whole time. 

 

This happened to me once with my son, when he was still a toddler. The IO stamped his French passport when entering Thailand, we never even noticed, but upon leaving again the following year, he showed up as being on major overstay on the computer. Fortunately, the IO understood immediately what had happened and corrected the information "manually" in the system, so there was no problem. He just reminded us to always enter Thailand on the Thai passport (and check that the IO is indeed stamping that one).

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Great Point... 

 

While I have never been asked (2x) and neither has my Wife, while travelling with our child without the 'other parent' - a couple of friends have been questioned. They didn't have any documentation, however, a phone call to the 'other party' was carried out.

 

We always travel with a form, which 'should' be translated and notarised by the local Amphur, but we never go that far.

 

This is the form we use (unfortunately I had to save as JPEG as this site doesn't allow loading an MS word or PDF document).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers, I will use that too.

[rattlesnake]

Thanks for the replies, PoA it is then!

[NativeBob]

Yes, you can apply to renew his passport as long as you have parental proof that you are is indeed his mother's husband and his is your child (B-Cert.)

It was very clear explained to me almost 10 years ago at our khet.

so-called "spem-donors" are not considered as legit father. 

And nope, expired passport is good only to speed-up its renewal and wall decoration. I got about dozen of those. 

[rattlesnake]

5 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Yes, you can apply to renew his passport as long as you have parental proof that you are is indeed his mother's husband and his is your child (B-Cert.)

It was very clear explained to me almost 10 years ago at our khet.

so-called "spem-donors" are not considered as legit father. 

And nope, expired passport is good only to speed-up its renewal and wall decoration. I got about dozen of those. 

 

I have the original copies of our Thai marriage certificate and of my son's Thai birth certificate, on which I am named as the father. Based on the replies in this thread, it seems this will not be enough and that my wife needs to obtain a Power of Attorney from the Thai Embassy in Paris, France.

[NativeBob]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

I have the original copies of our marriage certificate and of my son's birth certificate.

No Sir. You are legitimate father and according to Thai law you are entitled to equal rights with your wife. Except few little things not related to passport and international travel. 

Gents who said that might need PoA are referring to "Daddy on Berth Certificate" case only. Dress neat, get your docs and a kid and that will be "a walk in a park". 

You do know the difference between full-scale version of father and those who are not? Its quite huge. Not only "marriage" visa, right?

Now, some dirt on Birth Cert. : some working girls from Central Asia (and not only there) pays XX,XXX to get thai name as the father on their newborn's B.-Cert. One dumb from Czechoslovakia got Ozzy dude as father. She was told that will let her get an Australian passport as a custodian/mother of Australian kid. Didn't work though. Even appointment with Consular (on Sathorn Rd. right near French Embassy).

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

No Sir. You are legitimate father and according to Thai law you are entitled to equal rights with your wife. Except few little things not related to passport and international travel. 

Gents who said that might need PoA are referring to "Daddy on Berth Certificate" case only. Dress neat, get your docs and a kid and that will be "a walk in a park". 

You do know the difference between full-scale version of father and those who are not? Its quite huge. Not only "marriage" visa, right?

Now, some dirt on Birth Cert. : some working girls from Central Asia (and not only there) pays XX,XXX to get thai name as the father on their newborn's B.-Cert. One dumb from Czechoslovakia got Ozzy dude as father. She was told that will let her get an Australian passport as a custodian/mother of Australian kid. Didn't work though. Even appointment with Consular (on Sathorn Rd. right near French Embassy).

 

Just to be sure I understand you correctly, Bob:

 

You are claiming I can renew my son's passport myself, because I have my Thai marriage certificate and his Thai birth certificate (on which my wife and I are named as parents), and that a PoA is not necessary in this case?

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

No Sir. You are legitimate father and according to Thai law you are entitled to equal rights with your wife.

 

The rights are equal: Both parents need to be Present even if its the the Thai mother who wants to renew the Thai Passport for the child.

 

19 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Gents who said that might need PoA are referring to "Daddy on Berth Certificate" case only.

 

Confusing statement muddying the waters.

It doesn't matter if there is also a Marriage Certificate.

 

With both Father & Mother on the Birth Certificate - both parents need to be present, OR a PoA (from the non-attending parent) is required.

 

19 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Dress neat, get your docs and a kid and that will be "a walk in a park". 

 

Irrelevant how he dresses, IF he doesn't have the right paperwork (PoA) or the Mother / Wife also present.

 

19 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

You do know the difference between full-scale version of father and those who are not? Its quite huge. Not only "marriage" visa, right?

 

rattlesnakes question has nothing to do with the visa he's on...   also the visa he is on, has no relevance to the Childs renewal of their Thai passport.

 

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Just to be sure I understand you correctly, Bob:

 

You are claiming I can renew my son's passport myself, because I have my Thai marriage certificate and his Thai birth certificate, and that a PoA is not necessary in this case?

 

He's muddying the waters and generating confusion - Your visa status is irrelevant as is your marriage status. 

 

You are listed on the Birth Cert as the father.

Both parents need to be present, or you need a PoA. 

 

---------

 

We renewed our Son's Thai Passport 6 months ago.

We both needed to be present at the Thai Passport Office to renew our Son's Passport.

 

 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

He's muddying the waters and generating confusion - Your visa status is irrelevant.

 

Both parents need to be present, or you need a PoA. 

 

 

My thoughts also.

[NativeBob]

30 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Just to be sure I understand you correctly, Bob:

 

You are claiming I can renew my son's passport myself, because I have my Thai marriage certificate and his Thai birth certificate (on which my wife and I are named as parents), and that a PoA is not necessary in this case?

Yes, that is correct.
Technically not because you have those names, but because you are legitimate father and you can submit documents for your son's passport renewal based on this fact. 

PoA required only to grant certain powers to the person not legitimate to do so himself/herself. Example - aunts, grandparents, your or her siblings.

[rattlesnake]

8 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Isn't same in French Republic? 

 

In France, I was able to renew my son's passport myself, but only after having obtained a court-issued document giving me parental rights as we got married after his birth (this document is easy to obtain but indispensable for ID renewals). Every country has its own specificities and "logic".

 

I will probably just go to the passport office and ask them.

[NativeBob]

13 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

In France, I was able to renew my son's passport myself, but only after having obtained a court-issued document giving me parental rights as we got married after his birth (this document is easy to obtain but indispensable for ID renewals). Every country has its own specificities and "logic".

Nope, it is common sense and same for every country (except Banana Republics and some village-size countries on North) - once you can prove that you're legitimate you can submit documents accordingly. 

Please do not use "renew myself". You do not "renew" anything. What you do is you submit request form for renewal and they either accept it or not. If you're his father than YES, else... 

[rattlesnake]

7 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Nope, it is common sense and same for every country (except Banana Republics and some village-size countries on North) - once you can prove that you're legitimate you can submit documents accordingly. 

Please do not use "renew myself". You do not "renew" anything. What you do is you submit request form for renewal and they either accept it or not. If you're his father than YES, else... 

 

Below is an excerpt from the Thai government's website. If the child is less than 15 years old, it can't be done solely by a single parent.

And in the case where the non-appearing parent is not in the country, this will most certainly involve the Thai Embassy abroad (Paris in my case).

 

If a 10-year old applicant applies for an e-Passport, is it necessary for  the parents to come in person to sign the parental consent form?
- Applicants under the age of 15 must be accompanied by parents or a legal guardian.
If parents cannot appear, at least one parent must accompany the child when applying for
an e- Passport. If both parents cannot appear at the same time, one parent must accompany the applicant on the date of the application and as well bring a notarized parental consent form signed by the non-appearing parent. (parental consent form).

 

https://www.mfa.go.th/en/page/frequently-asked-questions-faqs?menu=5e20148fc4281a00c812e8e4

[NativeBob]

55 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

at least one parent must accompany the child when applying for an e- Passport.

Thanks, I will keep it in mind. 

What a hell is going to be for your family: parental consent form (in french), notarization, translation, legalization of translating, notarization in Embassy and postal to TH. 
Now its so-called low-season in TH, isn't cheaper just to buy charter ticket from Paris and back? 

I did that "notarization" back home - over all cost me about $600.