Which AC better 4 reliability, endurance, service:Daikin/Panasonic. Supporting evidence?

[GammaGlobulin]

Dear Folks,

 

I need to know, which brand, mentioned in the Topic, do you think is better IN THAILAND, for reliability, and for after-sales customer service and support, and for endurance here in Thailand's hot/humid climate.

 

aa.  I realize that Panasonic machines are sold at a lower price, even thought the LIST price is about the same as the Daikin price.

 

bb.  It seems that the Panasonic retailers are able to sell Panasonic at a much lower discounted price.

 

cc.  What I care about most is...RELIABILITY  EASY AFTER-SALES SERVICE AND TECHNICAL SERVICING, anytime something might go wrong, and FAST TECH SUPPORT to restore the AC to normal functioning.

 

dd.  Here in Thailand, any extended downtime, due to factory defects, can be a huge problem, if you only have one AC in a room, which is usually the case for most users.

 

 

ee.  I also care about quiet operation and good temperature control, meaning the thermostat setting must match the room temperature, within one degree C, or less.

 

 

I buy only PREMIUM brands.

 

Panasonic Brand is a premium brand, as we all know.

Daikin, I have never used personally, and I have no experience by which to judge aspects such as quiet operation, etc.

 

Still, at the moment, I am thinking about switching from Panasonic to Daikine...BUT, I hesitate to do so, since I worry about getting a machine that might not be as quiet as Panasonic, nor as good at maintaining exact room temperature, (when operating as it was designed by the Panasonic engineers.).

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

Tks.

Gamma

 

Note:Back in 2000, or so, I did purchase three Daikin ACs for use in a 3 bedroom condo in CHINA, meaning ZhongShan China.  However, I did not live there. This was a rental property and only the tenants know what the result might have been.  Still, when I installed the Daikin, and turned them on....They were quite nice...I thought at the time.  Yet, I have no personal experience.  I have used Panasonic ACs most of my life here in Asia, in Taiwan, in Japan, and in Thailand.

 

So,,,,thanks for any advice....tks a lot, folks....!!!!

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

May I please here mention just one more brand for consideration, and a brand for which I have had much respect in the past...HITACHI....

 

I have used Hitachi products in the past, but never a Hitachi AC.

 

Hitachi, IMHO, offers amazing customer service in Thailand.

 

However, since I have zero experience using Hitachi ACs, myself, I would be less likely to choose this brand as a replacement for the brand I am now using.

 

As I recall, very many years ago, and in Taiwan, I had thought that the Hitachi (Taiwan) ACs were a bit noisy on the outdoor unit.

Maybe they were, and maybe they were not, in actuality.  I just noticed one or two machines which seemed to be quite noisy, as I walked by.

 

That was many year ago in Taiwan.

I would guess that this means nothing, in relation to the noise-level for more modern ACs supplied by Hitachi in Japan or Taiwan.

 

But, what about Hitachi machines sold in Thailand?

Also, I have no personal experience.

 

There are really only THREE brands that I would consider buying to replace the brand I have now....Panasonic, Daikin, and Hitachi.

 

I think that Panasonic is probably a no-starter, at the moment.

 

So, if Daikin is far superior, in terms of after-sales service, quality of technical support, ease of communicating with Daikin to obtain superior technical support, then....YES...I would be willing to pay a bit more for this....HANDS DOWN....

 

And, I like the proven Hitachi customer service, technical support ... immediacy and competency of the these crucial things.

 

Hitachi does provide immediate response when you ask a technical question.

They reply lucidly in English, even in Thailand.

I am impressed by this company, in Thailand.

 

My only UNKNOWN is what the Hitachi AC might be like, after installation, since I have zero experience.

 

THIS is the problem when switching from a brand one has used for many, MANY, years, to a different brand....

 

There is just NO WAY to take the Hitachi AC for a "test drive".

 

Maybe, I would install the Hitachi AC, and then find out that I was an IDIOT for not having bought Hitachi, repeatedly, years ago.

Or, it might be the case that I would find that the Hitachi was slightly nosier....which I am not saying would be true....

 

I just DO NOT KNOW....

And, there is NO WAY to test the machine, to see if you might like it...BEFORE installation...this is a HUGE problem for the buyer...I think.

 

So, these are my thoughts, so far.

 

But, I think I need to make a move.....and probably very soon.

 

This present situation cannot go on....No way....Jose....

 

Thank you....!!!!

 

(((Life is just too short for this present aggravation and significant hassle....!!!)))

 

 

NOTE:  For the purposes of this discussion, let us ONLY consider premium brands of HIGH efficiency.  By premium brands, I would say these include Panasonic, Hitachi, Daikin, and also two other premium Japanese brands popular in Japan, but seldom seen here in Thailand.

 

 

[NickyLouie]

Gree , same factory and internal parts as Daikin .

[GammaGlobulin]

14 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

Gree , same factory and internal parts as Daikin .

 

I think I can guess what you mean.

 

However, just to be sure, would you be willing to elucidate a bit more, just for the purposes of clarification?

 

Are you saying that the production facility for all THREE brands is the same, for the AC machines sold by these three companies to the Thailand market?

 

Please clarify.

Thank you!

 

Important Note:  Still, concerning after-sales customer service, and technical support and repair, I believe that the performance of these three companies is NOT the same in Thailand.....and.....would you say that I am mistaken in my belief, based on past experience???

 

Just an important question which needs further discussion, I think....

 

 

[soi3eddie]

I think any big name brand should be good. You'll get best service and parts supply. I've had 5 (currently have 3), Daikin units and never had any problems. Good service on one callout under warranty - turned our not to be the unit, but wiring.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

Also, Folks....concerning one other brand I alluded to in the Topic, which is rather well-known, AND a reliable workhorse, which, in the past, according to my personal experience is quite amazing, never breaks down, and can operate reliably in almost any environment"

 

This is the General Brand, from Japan....

 

 

Here is my story:

 

Beginning around 1993, I installed a Fujitsu General AC in the showroom of a building supply company.

 

In this showroom, general contractors would come to talk turkey, and discuss price for building supplies.

These guys in Taiwan were not averse to smoking tobacco, and they all smoked up a storm, each and every day.

 

The environment in which the Fujitsu General was operating, in Taipei, Taiwan was HOT, HUMID, and constantly smokey.

It was exposed to chemicals out-gassed from plywood, each and every day, such as formaldehyde, and much more.

 

But, this General Brand from Fujitsu just kept on keeping on.

It was not often cleaned, in fact.

Yet, almost zero downtime.

It was a COMPLETE TANK.

 

The compressor was operating at PEAK almost 24/7.

This was a machine which had one condenser unit, and two evaporator units.

It was WAY undersized for the amount of work it was expected to do.

The doors to the outside were often just left open, and then heat and the humidity from the street poured in...yet...it just kept on keeping on.

 

All the controls never broke down.

The two remotes never broke, even though they might have been abused and thrown around.

Such an amazing machine.

 

As far as I know, that machine is still going strong.....many years later.

 

But, this machine was purchased in Taiwan...and I do not know if this might be the crucial difference.

 

Anyway, food for thought, at least food for my consideration....for sure.

 

By contrast, I have had a much different experience here, with one other Japanese brand, sold in Thailand.

Not sure why...but I need to find a solution....

 

Life is short.

Reliability give peace of mind.

If a machine is not stable and reliable, and causes hassles, then this shortens life, just due to stress.

Not acceptable, I think.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

I think any big name brand should be good.

 

Actually, this is quite contrary to my experience.

This is why I am asking.

 

[soi3eddie]

6 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Beginning around 1993, I installed a Fujitsu General AC in the showroom of a building supply company.

 

A lot of brands and technology has improved in the last 22 years. My 2019 and 2020 Daikin Inverter A/Cs are excellent. Quiet, low power usage, super great cooling and very reliable. YMMV.

  

[NatureFilm]

4 Mitsubishi Heavy Duty running now for 20 years without problem. One Panasonic broken 3 times within 5 years, replaced the c..p with a Haier.

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, NatureFilm said:

4 Mitsubishi Heavy Duty running now for 20 years without problem. One Panasonic broken 3 times within 5 years, replaced the c..p with a Haier.

 

OK.

I think my own personal experience might bear you out on this.

Panasonic broken more than three times...however, and QC a real problem.

HOWEVER, I would like to point out that my own experience is JUST a sample of ONE...and so...may not be representative of the the whole.

 

YET, I do agree that I have shared your experience with this brand....UNFORTUNATELY.....

 

Thank you, VERY MUCH...for your input here....

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, NatureFilm said:

Mitsubishi Heavy Duty running now for 20 years without problem.

 

Thank you for mentioning the Mitsubishi Heavy Duty AC type.

 

a.  This type is more expensive.

b.  I have not checked out the present status of the SEER/EER on these machines.  Do they now provide SEER of at least 23?

c.  Also, have they now become quieter, both on the indoor unit and the outdoor unit, then I recall them to be?

 

Just another important few considerations, I believe.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

38 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

My 2019 and 2020 Daikin Inverter A/Cs are excellent.

 

Where does Daikin produce the ACs destined for the Thailand market?

 

Malaysia?

Thailand?

China?

 

Also, most importantly, what is the tech support like?

Do they have great customer service?

 

IMHO, as I mentioned earlier, Hitachi service is the Gold Standard in Thailand.

I really LOVE Hitachi customer service, and also well-informed tech support.

 

Hitachi tech support is populated by guys who are NO DUMMIES...for sure.

They reply in English.

And, just reading their emails, you can tell that they are well educated.

 

This, I like very much.

 

I just do not know about how I might like a Hitachi AC, since I have never used one.

 

Hitachi ACs are a bit more expensive, but not MUCH more expensive.

 

I am talking:  24,000 BTU capacity.

Panasonic is about Bt.43,000

Daikin is about Bt.60,000

Mitsubishi Heavy Duty...probably around Bt.60,000...IDK

 

Samsung, I would not consider, since I have no experience with this brand, other than...WAY BACK in 2000, when I had a bad experience with this brand.  However, Samsung might be one of the best, these days....IDK.

 

============

 

There are some truly premium brands in Japan.

Known for reliability.

But, the quality might not be the same here in Thailand, if the ACs are not produced in Japan, under the same more rigorous QC standards, with the same components, and also on the same production line.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Mitsubishi Heavy Duty...probably around Bt.60,000...IDK

 

Just checked the price....

 

Very low price, and probably not a contender.

Just a guess.

Sorry if I am wrong.

Will not buy, however....!!!!

 

 

This is NOT a contender for this Topic.

NO WAY,,,,Jose...!!!

 

 

 

[NatureFilm]

25 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

OK.

I think my own personal experience might bear you out on this.

Panasonic broken more than three times...however, and QC a real problem.

HOWEVER, I would like to point out that my own experience is JUST a sample of ONE...and so...may not be representative of the the whole.

 

YET, I do agree that I have shared your experience with this brand....UNFORTUNATELY.....

 

Thank you, VERY MUCH...for your input here....

 

 

Oh, I think, it was Samsung! not Panasonic

[GammaGlobulin]

Just based on my great experience with Fujitsu General, thirty years ago....

 

I found this spec sheet for what is on offer from this brand in Thailand.

 

IMHO, the specs are NOT as good as those of Panasonic.

Panasonic has great engineering.

However, my only problem with Panasonic has been poor execution during manufacture, and not very good customer service, and not very good tech support, and much downtime.

 

So, you can compare these specs from the Fujitsu machine with the equivalent Panasonic machine, and you might see that Panasonic is still better.

But, if the downtime is important, and the customer service feedback and response time is important, then even if the Panasonic machine is better, still one must think TWICE.

 

 

 

 

I would consider a General...IF the quality were still the same as it once was....which is a Known UNKNOWN...for me, at this point....

 

NOTE:  IF this is NOT a typo, then if the SEER on the Fujitsu is REALLY only 13.50.....then....NO WAY...Jose...would I ever buy this machine....(This SEER value published in this table MUST be a typo...surely ....!!!!)

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

14 minutes ago, NatureFilm said:

Oh, I think, it was Samsung! not Panasonic

 

So, then, which brand was it that you stated broke three times within a period of 5 years?

Samsung or Panasonic?

 

[GammaGlobulin]

So, PLEASE, if I may, suggest that we get back to the gist of the Topic:

 

We are considering a comparison between Panasonic, Daikin, and (Maybe) Hitachi.

 

The type of AC will have the following general specs:

 

Suggested Retail price:  Approx Bt55,000 to Bt62,000

 

Capacity:  approx BTU of 24,000 

 

SEER:  At or above 21

 

Low noise on indoor and outdoor unit

 

Excellent Thermostat control of room temperature

 

=============

 

If we look at the specs, Panasonic is probably one of the best, if not THE best.

 

However, if Daikin offers better reliability, better manufacturing process control and QC, and better customer service, and better and faster tech support, then this is a CRUCIAL consideration in this hot climate.  DOWNTIME is unacceptable.  When a problem happens, and the AC stops working, then one requires IMMEDIATE AND EXCELLENT support.

 

So, then, how to compare these two brands?

 

Also, Panasonic's offering is usually discounted to about Bt.44,000.  But, Daikin's AC, of this type, is rarely sold for less than about Bt.60,000, as far as I have seen, recently.

 

==================

 

But, if Daikin offers excellent service, and great tech support, and much more reliability, then the price difference is totally insignificant.

 

So, this is what we are wondering about, and why we began this TOPIC in the first place.

 

We just want to know which machine to buy.....to be happy for at least 5 years, without the Hassle of the other brand....I think.

The extra money we might pay for a Daikin machine might be worth it..IF...we can do away with the customer support problems of the other brand.

 

I am NOT saying that there might be problems with the other brand.

 

I am just posing a hypothetical, here.....you understand.....

 

===================

 

And:  IF I were able to take the Hitachi Machine, the Hitachi AC, for a test-drive....FIRST....then....I would probably buy Hitachi....DUE TO the great Hitachi support here in Thailand.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

23 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

And:  IF I were able to take the Hitachi Machine, the Hitachi AC, for a test-drive...

 

NO, actually, I would not....because of the lower SEER rating...

 

 

 

I do recall, a few years ago, when Hitachi seemed to offer a higher-efficiency machine here in Thailand, and a more expensive machine.

But, I guess....Hitachi is no longer offering it's higher-cost machines to this market .... (just a guess, and I am probably wrong)

 

The SEER on this model is too low.

 

We need an SEER of 24, or above.

 

Panasonic does offer this type of better efficiency...just check the specs.

 

 

NOTE:  It is FAR, FAR better to pay an extra Bt.10,000, up front, for better energy efficiency...IF you intend to actually USE your AC.

 

Of course, as we all know, there are many people here in Thailand who just install the ACs...FOR SHOW, to show their neighbors that they bought one, for status reasons.

But, of course, they don't actually USE them....unless the neighbors might stop by...for a tea party....

 

One can easily recoup Bt.10,000 extra purchase price in one year of use...IF one uses one's AC.

 

NOTE:  This particular Hitachi model is a LOW cost model.  And so, one should not expect high efficiency at this price point.

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

So then, concerning the Daikin with a decent SEER rating:

 

 

 

 

But, the problem is:

 

The Panasonic offering's specs are EVERY BIT as good, if not a little bit better...even.

 

The only problem is.....maybe......after-sales service, tech support ON-TIME, and reliability.

 

Paying more for the Daikin would be WORTH IT if the service and reliability were far better.

But, as posed in the Topic.....

Might this be the case?

Or, might the service and tech support and reliability and endurance be equal?

 

Anybody know?