Will there ever be a safe vaccine?

[simon43]

18 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I think it started around the same time as he explored drinking his own urine.

Ah! Now I recall that poster 🙂 . Everything is much clearer to me now!  I won't bother replying to his troll posts...

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Thank you for your patience and willingness to stoop to these abyssal depths of mediocity and ignorance.

 

I know several people who have unvaccinated children, i.e. they never received a single shot, and who are all in stellar health. How does that fit in with the statement "You're alive because of the vaccines you did get, not despite them. So yes, you’re a piggybacker and would be dead without past immunisation"?

Sigh! - Now you’re a double feature: misunderstanding vaccines and statistics. Bold move! 
Oh Dear! - As for “I know several unvaccinated kids who are perfectly healthy”—that’s not a gotcha, it’s just proof you don’t understand how big numbers work. 
Public health is about probabilities, not your mate’s kid with strong genes and good luck. Anecdotes don’t trump data, they just reveal you think “sample size: six” is peer-reviewed research.
Let me elucidate…There’s no contradiction in saying you’re alive because of past vaccines and that unvaccinated people can freeload off herd immunity—for a while. That’s how population-level immunity works: it protects the whole group, including the selfish tagalongs. But when too many opt out, the protection collapses. Congrats, you’re the free rider on a train you claim doesn’t exist. 
You're not the exception that disproves the rule. You're the reason we have to keep explaining it.
 

[kwilco]

9 minutes ago, Purdey said:

When the OP knows that Stillwagon is a retired chiropractor and STILL insists he is an expert, what does it say about the OP?

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.9PW8PJ

It's just embarrassing. By all means do your own research, but start by looking up biographical information about the"expert".

THey are using  a well documented false argument. - A  false argument, or logical fallacy, is one that may sound convincing but contains a flaw in reasoning that makes it invalid or misleading. These flaws can be either deliberate i.e. Red - (to manipulate) or unintentional ( e.g - Stiddle Mump and Rattlesnake - from misunderstanding or poor logic). Either way, they lead to unsupported or incorrect conclusions.
In this case, we’re looking at the “false appeal to authority” fallacy. This happens when someone cites an authority figure who lacks relevant expertise as if their opinion alone proves the argument. Just because someone is a “Dr.” or appears confident on YouTube doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about—especially if their field of expertise has nothing to do with the topic.
And yes—there’s a whole list of logical fallacies out there, and once you learn them, you’ll spot them all the time. Especially in the arguments of anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. They really are that predictable.
 

[rattlesnake]

44 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Sigh! - Now you’re a double feature: misunderstanding vaccines and statistics. Bold move! 
Oh Dear! - As for “I know several unvaccinated kids who are perfectly healthy”—that’s not a gotcha, it’s just proof you don’t understand how big numbers work. 
Public health is about probabilities, not your mate’s kid with strong genes and good luck. Anecdotes don’t trump data, they just reveal you think “sample size: six” is peer-reviewed research.
Let me elucidate…There’s no contradiction in saying you’re alive because of past vaccines and that unvaccinated people can freeload off herd immunity—for a while. That’s how population-level immunity works: it protects the whole group, including the selfish tagalongs. But when too many opt out, the protection collapses. Congrats, you’re the free rider on a train you claim doesn’t exist. 
You're not the exception that disproves the rule. You're the reason we have to keep explaining it.
 

 

Please explain this:

 

Top Two MMR-Vaccinated States Lead in 2025 Measles Cases

 

https://www.vigilantfox.com/p/top-two-mmr-vaccinated-states-lead

 

[kwilco]

12 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Please explain this:

 

Top Two MMR-Vaccinated States Lead in 2025 Measles Cases

 

https://www.vigilantfox.com/p/top-two-mmr-vaccinated-states-lead

 

oh dear (sigh again) You're just reinforcing your own hopeless image - you just don't understand numbers...

“Top two vaccinated states have the most cases”? That’s like saying the biggest cities have the most car crashes — because they have more cars. It’s cherry-picking 101. Try comparing rates, not raw numbers, if you’re aiming for truth over clickbait.

Also, “Vigilant Fox” isn’t a source. It’s a meme farm in a trench coat.

Has it also occured to you that some states without proper vaccine programs also suppress results?

[Stiddle Mump]

30 minutes ago, kwilco said:

oh dear (sigh again) You're just reinforcing your own hopeless image - you just don't understand numbers...

“Top two vaccinated states have the most cases”? That’s like saying the biggest cities have the most car crashes — because they have more cars. It’s cherry-picking 101. Try comparing rates, not raw numbers, if you’re aiming for truth over clickbait.

Also, “Vigilant Fox” isn’t a source. It’s a meme farm in a trench coat.

Has it also occured to you that some states without proper vaccine programs also suppress results?

This sub-topic needs some clarification.

 

Measles is a complaint that at the extremes, is difficult to pin down. The symptoms are wide-ranging. It is the body expelling stuff that has been accumulated. This includes any medical interventions such as vaccines.

 

The actual measles symptoms are the cure. There is no such thing as a measles virus.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Stiddle Mump said:

This sub-topic needs some clarification.

 

Measles is a complaint that at the extremes, is difficult to pin down. The symptoms are wide-ranging. It is the body expelling stuff that has been accumulated. This includes any medical interventions such as vaccines.

 

The actual measles symptoms are the cure. There is no such thing as a measles virus.

Dear God…., the "measles isn't real, it's just your body detoxing vaccines" routine — brought to you by people who think viruses are a hoax and rashes are personal growth.
Measles is a viral infection, confirmed by decades of virology, lab isolation, and (sadly) preventable deaths. Saying "the symptoms are the cure" is like claiming a house fire is just your home releasing emotional baggage.
This isn’t clarification — it’s anti-science word salad with a sprinkle of delusion.
Congrats — you’ve unlocked the full Conspiracy Theory Bingo Card: viruses don’t exist, symptoms are healing, vaccines are poison, and measles is just a detox. Only thing missing is 5G and chemtrails.

I have to say It’s genuinely impressive how confidently wrong someone can be. Like watching someone argue the Earth is flat while using GPS. A masterclass in being misinformed and proud of it.

   

[kwilco]

For those with any sanity still left…. You might be wondering  do conspiracy theorists never change their minds? – Various reasons….

Like because facts are scary and being “the only one who knows the truth” feels amazing.
Cognitive dissonance: Admitting they’re wrong would cause emotional whiplash, so they just pretend the evidence is part of the conspiracy.
Confirmation bias: They Google until they find someone on YouTube in a beanie who agrees with them — case closed.
Paranoia: They don’t trust experts, doctors, journalists, scientists — but that guy with a blog from his shed? Totally reliable.
Dunning-Kruger effect: They read three memes and now think they understand immunology better than people with PhDs.
Identity politics for loners: Being “awake” is their whole personality now. Changing their mind would mean becoming... normal. Or worse still, WOKE!

It’s not always stupidity. (Except for the obvious ones I’ve noted before)  But it’s never curiosity, humility, or critical thinking either.

 

…and for those who are interested in my earlier checklist here’s how to get started as a tin-foil cadet

 

Begin by feeling confused or powerless — then stumbling into some clickbait video at 2am that “explains everything.” (Alcohol or other brain damage drugs help) and suddenly, every expert is a liar, every coincidence is a plot, and they’re the hero who “sees through it all.”
Add a few echo chambers, a sprinkle of algorithmic doom, and boom — they’re off, doing “research” on websites that wouldn’t pass a Year 9 science project.

 

..........And once they buy into one conspiracy, it’s like Pringles — they can’t stop. Believe the moon landing was faked? Suddenly 5G causes COVID, Bill Gates is injecting microchips, and the Earth might be flat if you squint hard enough.
It’s less a belief system, more a starter pack for abandoning reality.

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

“Top two vaccinated states have the most cases”? That’s like saying the biggest cities have the most car crashes — because they have more cars. It’s cherry-picking 101. Try comparing rates, not raw numbers, if you’re aiming for truth over clickbait.

 

Your guidance is much appreciated. From the article:

 

Increased Vaccinations

Texas: From January 1 to March 16, 2025, Texas administered at least 173,000 doses of the measles vaccine, up from 158,000 during the same period in 2024—a roughly 9.5% increase.

New Mexico: According to the New Mexico Department of Health, between February 1 and March 31, 2025, 14,757 doses of the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine were administered in New Mexico, compared to 8,162 during the same period in 2024—an 80.8% increase.

Increased Cases

Texas is the clear epicenter, with 709 cases reported as of early May, far surpassing any other state.

New Mexico has reported 71 confirmed measles cases, as of early May 2025, confirmed by the New Mexico Department of Health.

 

In any case, your semantic integrity is welcome, and would have been even more welcome when these messages were pushed unilaterally for a couple of months:

 

 

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

It’s less a belief system, more a starter pack for abandoning reality.

Correct.

Some societies are rich enough to afford (and feed and take care of) quite a lot of these nutters. 

In a poorer country, like in Thailand,  abandoning reality is life- threatening,  so not many people do it.

[kwilco]

16 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Correct.

Some societies are rich enough to afford (and feed and take care of) quite a lot of these nutters. 

In a poorer country, like in Thailand,  abandoning reality is life- threatening,  so not many people do it.

Thai attitudes to Doctors and medicines are really interesting - one of the reasons for so many snake bite deaths, is that people go to a local herbalist first - then it's too late. Also even mainstream hospitals often have quack/alternative practitioners operating within their walls....including MacDonalds!

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Your guidance is much appreciated. From the article:

 

Increased Vaccinations

Texas: From January 1 to March 16, 2025, Texas administered at least 173,000 doses of the measles vaccine, up from 158,000 during the same period in 2024—a roughly 9.5% increase.

New Mexico: According to the New Mexico Department of Health, between February 1 and March 31, 2025, 14,757 doses of the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine were administered in New Mexico, compared to 8,162 during the same period in 2024—an 80.8% increase.

Increased Cases

Texas is the clear epicenter, with 709 cases reported as of early May, far surpassing any other state.

New Mexico has reported 71 confirmed measles cases, as of early May 2025, confirmed by the New Mexico Department of Health.

 

In any case, your semantic integrity is welcome, and would have been even more welcome when these messages were pushed unilaterally for a couple of months:

 

 

 

 

you are determined not to gettit??

 

Ah yes, measles cases go up, people panic and rush to get vaccinated — and somehow that’s “proof” the vaccine caused the outbreak? That’s like saying umbrellas cause rain. 🙄

You’re confusing correlation with causation. Vaccination surged because cases did — not the other way around. And raw case numbers without context (like population size or vax coverage) are classic cherry-picking.

Measles spreads where vaccination is low. That’s not a mystery, that’s epidemiology.

[Hawaiian]

On 6/14/2025 at 7:38 PM, Yellowtail said:

No, there will never be an effective vaccine or medication that does not have a negative effect on some percentage of the population. 

 

 

Exactly.  We are all different.  We respond differently to everything around us no matter how healthy we are.

[rattlesnake]

45 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

you are determined not to gettit??

 

Ah yes, measles cases go up, people panic and rush to get vaccinated — and somehow that’s “proof” the vaccine caused the outbreak? That’s like saying umbrellas cause rain. 🙄

You’re confusing correlation with causation. Vaccination surged because cases did — not the other way around. And raw case numbers without context (like population size or vax coverage) are classic cherry-picking.

Measles spreads where vaccination is low. That’s not a mystery, that’s epidemiology.

 

In Texas, Canada, and Hawaii, these outbreaks followed government-led vaccination campaigns, which raises the question of whether they were vaccine-induced, which is not a novel phenomenon, it happened before with polio, for example.

 

Ontario case:

Ontario Measles Outbreak More Than Doubles in Three Weeks After Federal and Local Gov't Vaccine Push
Largest measles outbreak in 30 years.

https://jonfleetwood.substack.com/p/ontario-measles-outbreak-more-than

 

From the Vigilant Fox article:

 

The live measles virus in the MMR vaccine is the product of gain-of-function (GOF) laboratory experiments, meaning it is deliberately engineered to enhance its ability to infect more human cells than the wild-type measles virus can and may retain characteristics that enable transmission and replication in the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.

The live virus in the vaccine can be shed for weeks from the vaccinated, potentially infecting the unvaccinated. A 1995 CDC study found that 83% of vaccinated children had measles virus shed in their urine. An April 2012 publication in the peer-reviewed journal Paediatrics & Child Health reported a child was being investigated after developing a new-onset measles-type rash after receiving a measles vaccine, meaning the shot can cause disease in the vaccinated. Nucleic acid testing confirmed that a “vaccine-type measles virus was being shed in the [child’s] urine.” A 2014 study in Clinical Infectious Diseases confirms that vaccinated individuals can transmit measles to multiple contacts.