As Trump shuts out migrants, Spain opens its doors and fuels economic growth

[Tiger1980]

I was under the impression that the unemployment rate in Spain in a high 10%.

For the under 23, I believe somewhere in the region of 26%.

 

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, the topic here has absolutely nothing to do with tourism or what locals there feel about tourism trends.

 

It has to do with the entirely different topic of Spain finding and creating via immigration a willing and capable workforce to fill jobs that need to be filled to advance their economy and pay the taxes that help support their social programs for all Spanish citizens.

 

 

And nothing to do with ILLEGAL immigration.

 

How many ILLEGAL immigrants currently being deported from the US have been willingly accepted by Spain?

 

How many MS-13 cornpops have been warmly welcomed in Mallorca?

 

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

14th amendment, section 2:

 

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, ......

 

How are they counted?

By census.

Does the census ask about citizenship?

No, not since 1950.

What is census data used for?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...........

And boy, how the left fought tooth and nail to keep any questions about immigration status off the last census.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

And nothing to do with ILLEGAL immigration.

 

How many ILLEGAL immigrants currently being deported from the US have been willingly accepted by Spain?

 

How many MS-13 cornpops have been warmly welcomed in Mallorca?

 

 

 

For all the right-wing political nonsense being posted by Trumpers such as the above, the simple fact is, the vast majority of undocumented workers in the U.S. are just there to work every day trying to earn a better life for them and their families and children, doing jobs that often American citizens don't want to do.

 

They help drive the U.S. economy, and don't commit crimes overall at any higher rates than American citizens, other than the fact that they're undocumented.

 

Debunking the Myth of Immigrants and Crime

October 17, 2024

 

"The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. 

...

However, a robust body of research shows that welcoming immigrants into American communities not only does not increase crime, but can actually strengthen public safety. In fact, immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—are less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born."

 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/

 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

For all the right-wing political nonsense being posted by Trumpers such as the above, the simple fact is, the vast majority of undocumented workers in the U.S. are just there to work every day trying to earn a better life for them and their families and children, doing jobs that often American citizens don't want to do.

 

They help drive the U.S. economy, and don't commit crimes overall at any higher rates than American citizens, other than the fact that they're undocumented.

 

Debunking the Myth of Immigrants and Crime

October 17, 2024

 

"The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. 

...

However, a robust body of research shows that welcoming immigrants into American communities not only does not increase crime, but can actually strengthen public safety. In fact, immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—are less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born."

 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/

 

 

Yeah, all the organizations like the American Immigration Council that are getting rich off of illegal immigration love illegal immigrants. 

 

They do their own "studies" and then cite them. 

 

[NoDisplayName]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

They help drive the U.S. economy, and don't commit crimes overall at any higher rates than American citizens, other than the fact that they're undocumented.

 

Strange logic.

 

"They don't commit crimes other than the crimes they've already committed."

 

Illegal = deportable.  They can apply for a LEGAL visa from their home country...if they have no additional crimes on their record.

 

Shirley, if they were such upstanding, law-abiding non-citizens, this would be a small price to pay for a LEGAL entry and potential pathway to citizenship.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

And nothing to do with ILLEGAL immigration.

 

How many ILLEGAL immigrants currently being deported from the US have been willingly accepted by Spain?

 

How many MS-13 cornpops have been warmly welcomed in Mallorca?

 

 

 

By the way, the particular photo you've posted above is NOT of any immigrant to the U.S,, but rather, a gang member imprisoned in an El Salvador prison some decade ago.

 

"The Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) is so feared the gang has been left to run its own prison, with guards only patrolling the outside.

 

There are 2,500 members locked up in Penas Ciudad Barrios, El Salvador.

 

In 2013, London photographer Adam Hinton was given unprecedented access to their home to document them."

 

https://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/these-gang-members-are-so-feared-theyre-left-to-run-their-own-prison-5379988/

 

But hey, posting an ugly, fearful looking photo that's unsourced and misleading serves your purpose...

 

[Yellowtail]

Fact: Only crimes that are reported are investigated.

 

Fact: Only crimes that are investigated may result in having a suspect.

 

Fact: Only crimes that have suspects with strong cases against them are prosecuted. 

 

Fact: Only suspects with strong cases against them are prosecuted. 

 

Fact: Only suspects that are prosecuted may result in a conviction. 

 

Fact: Only suspects that are conviction are counted in crime statistics. 

 

Fact: Sanctuary cities generally do not provide immigration status to FBI. 

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

By the way, the particular photo you've posted above is NOT of any immigrant to the U.S,, but rather, a gang member imprisoned in an El Salvador prison some decade ago.

 

"The Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) is so feared the gang has been left to run its own prison, with guards only patrolling the outside.

 

There are 2,500 members locked up in Penas Ciudad Barrios, El Salvador.

 

In 2013, London photographer Adam Hinton was given unprecedented access to their home to document them."

 

https://metro.co.uk/2015/09/07/these-gang-members-are-so-feared-theyre-left-to-run-their-own-prison-5379988/

 

But hey, posting an ugly, fearful looking photo that's unsourced and misleading serves your purpose...

 

 

Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!

 

Is Spain accepting LEGAL immigrants from Latin America?  Yes, they are.  They are not opening the borders for illegals.  How many of the LEGAL immigrants are MS-13 cornpops?

 

I din't say or imply that particular cornpop was an "undocumented US American."

 

The photo is simply an illustration of one of the major exports of the southern region.

 

Your gotcha din't getcha much.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, all the organizations like the American Immigration Council that are getting rich off of illegal immigration love illegal immigrants. 

 

They do their own "studies" and then cite them. 

 

 

Not just one group or one study making the findings that immigrants, undocumented or not, are less likely to be involved in crime.

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find

March 8, 2024

 

"Some of the most extensive research comes from Stanford University. Economist Ran Abramitzky found that since the 1960s, immigrants are 60% less likely to be incarcerated than U.S.-born people.

 

There is also state level research, that shows similar results: researchers at the CATO Institute, a libertarian think tank, looked into Texas in 2019. They found that undocumented immigrants were 37.1% less likely to be convicted of a crime."

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

 

 

Debunking the Myth of the ‘Migrant Crime Wave’

Data does not support claims that the United States is experiencing a surge in crime caused by immigrants.

 

May 29, 2024

...

"The research does not support the view that immigrants commit crime or are incarcerated at higher rates than native-born Americans. In fact, immigrants might have less law enforcement contact compared to nonimmigrants.

...

Numerous studies show that immigration is not linked to higher levels of crime, but rather the opposite."

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/debunking-myth-migrant-crime-wave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

For all the right-wing political nonsense being posted by Trumpers such as the above, the simple fact is, the vast majority of undocumented workers in the U.S. are just there to work every day trying to earn a better life for them and their families and children, doing jobs that often American citizens don't want to do.

 

They help drive the U.S. economy, and don't commit crimes overall at any higher rates than American citizens, other than the fact that they're undocumented.

 

Debunking the Myth of Immigrants and Crime

October 17, 2024

 

"The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. 

...

However, a robust body of research shows that welcoming immigrants into American communities not only does not increase crime, but can actually strengthen public safety. In fact, immigrants—including undocumented immigrants—are less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born."

 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/

 

 

No crimes.

 

Except ID theft

And falsifying documents

And driving without licenses or insurance

And harboring known illegal aliens (against the US Code 8/1324. Which also covers smuggling, conspiracy, transporting known illegals, etc.

 

Yeah, except THOSE crimes. 

[candide]

55 minutes ago, Tiger1980 said:

I was under the impression that the unemployment rate in Spain in a high 10%.

For the under 23, I believe somewhere in the region of 26%.

 

It's about importing young people in order to compensate for the low birth rate, and thus balance the age pyramid.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/birth-rate

 

Having said that, it's not without problems as the successive governments did not manage immigration and it's consequences.

[candide]

18 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!

 

Is Spain accepting LEGAL immigrants from Latin America?  Yes, they are.  They are not opening the borders for illegals.  How many of the LEGAL immigrants are MS-13 cornpops?

 

I din't say or imply that particular cornpop was an "undocumented US American."

 

The photo is simply an illustration of one of the major exports of the southern region.

 

Your gotcha din't getcha much.

It's not true. They often enter legally as tourists and then overstay and work illegally before their situation is legalised by some regularisation procedure.

 

Latin Americans can enter without visa, and then they just stay.

[NoDisplayName]

Just now, candide said:

It's not true. They often enter legally as tourists and then overstay and work illega.ly before their situation is legalised by some regularisation procedure.

 

Latin Americans can enter without visa, and then they just stay.

 

Goal posts have wheels.

Who knew!

 

How many ILLEGALS are welcomed?

Not

How many LEGAL visitors commit crimes?

[angryguy]

Is spain really taking the migrants from the middle east from the UK or is this just posture?

[ThreeCardMonte]

15 hours ago, still kicking said:

What's your point? My Thai wife came to OZ many years ago, and she could not speak English at all, just like me. I am not British or from any other English-speaking country. She is a nurse now, after studying hard for years. She could put you to shame now

Are you from Iran?  Or Lebanon?

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, candide said:

Latin Americans can enter without visa, and then they just stay.

 

Spain is the new Pattaya.

[Bday Prang]

28 minutes ago, candide said:

It's about importing young people in order to compensate for the low birth rate, and thus balance the age pyramid.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/birth-rate

 

Having said that, it's not without problems as the successive governments did not manage immigration and it's consequences.

strange to see a low birth rate in a catholic country.  

[RayC]

34 minutes ago, candide said:

It's about importing young people in order to compensate for the low birth rate, and thus balance the age pyramid.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/birth-rate

 

Having said that, it's not without problems as the successive governments did not manage immigration and it's consequences.

 

Indeed. 

 

Like immigration to any country there are pros and cons.

 

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/56654/spain-immigrant-labor-bridging-job-market-gaps#:~:text=Job growth for migrants is,their shared history and language.

[RayC]

8 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Spain is the new Pattaya.

 

😂 Although I think that it was more a case of Pattaya being the new Costa Brava a few decades ago

[Bannoi]

The Uk opened its doors and now have the best Ruby Murrays and Chinky take aways in the western hemisphere

[Bday Prang]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Not just one group or one study making the findings that immigrants, undocumented or not, are less likely to be involved in crime.

There is always some sort of "study" or "research" that allegedly backs up the leftists usual claims. Who ever it  is it that commissions these endless and pointless surveys would probably have a major influence on  the results.

The fact is most people are just sick and tired of it all, and would rather they were all rounded up and sent home, that is afterall what immigration rules are for 

[blaze master]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, the topic here has absolutely nothing to do with tourism or what locals there feel about tourism trends.

 

It has to do with the entirely different topic of Spain finding and creating via immigration a willing and capable workforce to fill jobs that need to be filled to advance their economy and pay the taxes that help support their social programs for all Spanish citizens.

 

 

You're mixing up illegal immigration with legal. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not just one group or one study making the findings that immigrants, undocumented or not, are less likely to be involved in crime.

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find

March 8, 2024

 

"Some of the most extensive research comes from Stanford University. Economist Ran Abramitzky found that since the 1960s, immigrants are 60% less likely to be incarcerated than U.S.-born people.

 

There is also state level research, that shows similar results: researchers at the CATO Institute, a libertarian think tank, looked into Texas in 2019. They found that undocumented immigrants were 37.1% less likely to be convicted of a crime."

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

 

 

Debunking the Myth of the ‘Migrant Crime Wave’

Data does not support claims that the United States is experiencing a surge in crime caused by immigrants.

 

May 29, 2024

...

"The research does not support the view that immigrants commit crime or are incarcerated at higher rates than native-born Americans. In fact, immigrants might have less law enforcement contact compared to nonimmigrants.

...

Numerous studies show that immigration is not linked to higher levels of crime, but rather the opposite."

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/debunking-myth-migrant-crime-wave

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both of these cite the same phony one year study done in one area of Texas.

 

From your link: "The illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 45 percent below that of native-born Americans in Texas." 

 

First, it is only comparing the illegal aliens to native-born Americans in Texas, not in the US. Why is this not a big red flag to any thinking individual? 

 

 

It is worth noting that illegal aliens:

Are harder to find than citizens 

Have less ties to a community and can relocate easily

Can run back across the border to avoid conviction. 

 

To be clear, there is no shortage of articles written by leftists claiming that illegal immigrants commit less crime than citizens, but there are no comprehensive studies that support that. 

 

Again:

Fact: Only crimes that are reported are investigated.

 

Fact: Only crimes that are investigated may result in having a suspect.

 

Fact: Only crimes that have suspects with strong cases against them are prosecuted. 

 

Fact: Only suspects with strong cases against them are prosecuted. 

 

Fact: Only suspects that are prosecuted may result in a conviction. 

 

Fact: Only suspects that are conviction are counted in crime statistics. 

 

Fact: Sanctuary cities generally do not provide immigration status to FBI. 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

From your link: "The illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 45 percent below that of native-born Americans in Texas." 

 

Assume many are deported for illegal entry without bothering with a trial for the drug/shoplifting/domestic violence/drunk&disorderly/fake ID/no license or insurance offenses they may have been picked up on.

 

No point in following through, the prosecutor may decide not to go to trial.  They'd likely just get probation anyway, and be released to........deportation.

[still kicking]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Your wife was illiterate before you moved to Australia? 

Please don't listen to B/S, she worked in Chom Bueng at the university and in OZ as a nurse, and is fluent in English. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, still kicking said:

Please don't listen to B/S, she worked in Chom Bueng at the university and in OZ as a nurse, and is fluent in English. 

I was listening to your BS. 

 

[still kicking]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I was listening to your BS. 

 

Just in case you don't know, Nurses in OZ have an English test every few months fail that you can kiss your job goodbye. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, still kicking said:

Just in case you don't know, Nurses in OZ have an English test every few months fail that you can kiss your job goodbye. 

And? 

[altayvan]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, the topic here has absolutely nothing to do with tourism or what locals there feel about tourism trends.

 

It has to do with the entirely different topic of Spain finding and creating via immigration a willing and capable workforce to fill jobs that need to be filled to advance their economy and pay the taxes that help support their social programs for all Spanish citizens.

 

I suppose our maga friends here want to divert from topics where the USA policy is not doing best in the world.