1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

There was no third pilot according to the manifest. If someone else as there it had to be a "guest". 

Maybe he was on the flight but sat in the cabin.

2 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

You will be Surprised how many Pilots decided to take there life in a cockpit. The most famouse or infamouse being Andreas Lubitz killing 150 on board when he flew a German Wings Airbus A-320 directly into a Mountain in the French Alps in 2013. He did not just push the stick forcing the plane down he put it in a slow decent and calmly sat back waiting for impact while the captain can be heard trying to open the door into the cockpit. 

So tells us all exactly how many pilots worldwide actually DO that, compared to the number of pilots employed by all the airlines in the world. Not as a percentage but as actual numbers,

 

Then of course all you need to do is post the verified link that you got the information from.

 

Otherwise it is just unverified, and we are supposed to take your word that it is true.

 

To quote a very old YV series called "Dragnet", Sgt Joe Friday is quoted as saying "Just the facts, Ma'am".

7 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

There was said actually a third pilot/airline member/crew member in the cockpit. Behind in the jump seat.

Who said that and where was it reported?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

Yes, bloody horrible.

Another 1 was Silk Air flight in Indonesia in 1997. The pilot deliberatly flew it into the ground killing all on Board. The black box showed the 737 went supersonic at speeds of 12-13 hundred kms an hour. The term used in AIB Accidents are called " Controlled flight into Terrain" That Captain had been demoted and lost a lot of money on the stock market so decided to end it this way.

 

2 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

There was no third pilot according to the manifest. If someone else as there it had to be a "guest". 

That's what I said. Thanks for repeating 👍

No, that's not what you posted.

Stop nit picking lou

 

5 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Stop nit picking lou

 

Pointing out factual inaccuracies and lies is not "nit-picking".

38 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Another 1 was Silk Air flight in Indonesia in 1997. The pilot deliberatly flew it into the ground killing all on Board.

That was not the conclusive outcome of that accident and it crashed into a river, not into the ground.  The final statement from the NTSC was that they were unable to determine the cause of the crash and was thus inconclusive.

24 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Pointing out factual inaccuracies and lies is not "nit-picking".

This was the initial report first lou.

nitially, there were reports and speculation about a potential third person, possibly in the jump seat, on Air India flight 171, but these were not confirmed and are not part of the official investigation. The focus of the investigation is on a potential mechanical failure related to the captain's seat and its impact on the thrust levers. 

 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Just now, BarraMarra said:

This was the initial report first lou.

nitially, there were reports and speculation about a potential third person, possibly in the jump seat, on Air India flight 171, but these were not confirmed and are not part of the official investigation. The focus of the investigation is on a potential mechanical failure related to the captain's seat and its impact on the thrust levers. 

 

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Recind that post calling me a liar as stated there was a possibility there was a third person in the cockpit. Do not call me a liar.

42 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, that's not what you posted.

Don't be silly 

48 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who said that and where was it reported?

You don't read news? You don't watch news? You don't have internet? Where are you living? In Transnistria or Timbuktu?

Don't send me such stupid replies.

You're a joke. 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

So tells us all exactly how many pilots worldwide actually DO that, compared to the number of pilots employed by all the airlines in the world. Not as a percentage but as actual numbers,

 

Then of course all you need to do is post the verified link that you got the information from.

 

Otherwise it is just unverified, and we are supposed to take your word that it is true.

 

To quote a very old YV series called "Dragnet", Sgt Joe Friday is quoted as saying "Just the facts, Ma'am".

Do a quick google search of pilots who deliberatly flew there planes into the ground bild766 take you 5 mins. You saying the second officer locked the door to the cabin and crashed his airbus into the French alps was " Unverified".

3 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who said that and where was it reported?

You don't read news? You don't watch news? You don't have internet? Where are you living? In Transnistria or Timbuktu?

Don't send me such stupid replies.

You're a joke. 

The joke is you; yes, I do read the news that's how I know as a fact that no one, anywhere, has credibly asserted that there was a third person in that plane's cockpit likely to have contributed, or not, to the accident, if there has been such a claim you'd have quoted it.  

 

 

3 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, that's not what you posted.

Don't be silly

I'm not, you appear to have the franchise on that.

11 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I don't think there is any doubt about the engine reverting to idle , as the aircraft came down.

 

What I find abhorrent is the US/Boeing trying to blame the incident on the India crew to divert attention away from potential fault with the aircraft.🤮

 

Next they will be telling us that one of the crew had multiple partners, five cars and had gambling debts.

 

The 787 was not the issue.  The pilots were the issue. 

46 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The joke is you; yes, I do read the news that's how I know as a fact that no one, anywhere, has credibly asserted that there was a third person in that plane's cockpit likely to have contributed, or not, to the accident, if there has been such a claim you'd have quoted it.  

 

 

Are you drunk? Who can read that Gobbledygook??😳

49 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm not, you appear to have the franchise on that.

Poor lad. I'm not sure if someone can help you. 

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Are you drunk? Who can read that Gobbledygook??😳

No.

Anyone with a basic understanding of the English language can read it.

Just now, newbee2022 said:

51 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm not, you appear to have the franchise on that.

Poor lad. I'm not sure if someone can help you.

Don't worry, I'm not in need of anyone's help.

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

No.

Anyone with a basic understanding of the English language can read it.

I doubt even there where you are coming from. Normally we're writing in English, not Gobbledygook. Sorry. Try it again.

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Don't worry, I'm not in need of anyone's help.

I can see. Lonely, 

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Don't worry, I'm not in need of anyone's help.

I can see. Lonely, 

That's not a logical conclusion but, then, who's surprised at that?

35 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's not a logical conclusion but, then, who's surprised at that?

I gave you evidence that at the time not what we know now, but at the time, it was thought a third person was in the cockpit as shown. You called me a liar in open forum will you now apologise for posting that. Do not deflect we were told it was possible a third person was on the flight deck at that time just a day or 2 after the Accident.

Well Lou any response from you ?

 

As all of this incident this latest news is really sad.

 

Someone at the NTSB evidently heard the entire CVR recording. Apparently the (CO) pilot flying was caught by panic when he realized what had happened and then questioned his Captain, who sounded rather calm. I think there will be some confirmation of this soon.   

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/new-details-air-india-crash-probe-shift-focus-senior-pilot-wsj-reports-2025-07-16/

 

July 17 (Reuters) - A cockpit recording of dialogue between the two pilots of the Air India flight that crashed last month indicates the captain cut the flow of fuel to the plane's engines, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday.

The newspaper cited people familiar with U.S. officials' early assessment of evidence uncovered in the investigation into the June 12 crash of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner in Ahmedabad, India, that killed 260 people.

Still way too early to call.  The FDR doesn't measure the switch position, it measures electrical signals and infers the switch position.   There could have been other reasons for the electrical status that led the FDR to indicate that the switches had been flipped from run to cutoff then back to run where they were found after the crash.  They're going to need sound experts to listen to the CVR to see if the sounds indicate the switches were flipped. (Much less who flipped them)

 

There's a possibility that the signal shutting off the fuel came from one of the automation algorithms, and not from a flipped switch.  Google Mary Schiavo Air India (Aviation attorney and former US Department of Transportation Inspector) and you'll get some results and some videos where she explains why the pilots may have done nothing wrong.  Here's a snippet that you can Google (because MSN links never work)  Here, she's discussing the TCMA, but there are other systems.

 

"There have already been two interesting somewhat similar situations on the All Nippon Airways flight back in 2019," she said. "As the plane was coming into land, the fuel control cut off occurred. The plane itself cut off the fuel to the engines. The plane came in like a very heavy glider, but because it was landing, not taking off, there was no crash."

 

I'm not claiming I know.  Just that it's way too early to call. 

 

On an aside, 90% of what I've read and watched point fingers at the pilot(s).  But my wingnut conspiracy money's on software or electrical gremlins.  There's also been a lot of discussion about how frayed wires or bad connections could have been the cause.

Dubai: Just when the investigation into Air India flight AI171 seemed to shift its focus toward possible cockpit error, aviation experts are warning: don’t jump to conclusions yet.

 

Yes, the cockpit voice recorder indicates that the younger co-pilot questioned a sudden fuel switch-off. And yes, a veteran pilot has suggested the first officer may have accidentally shut off fuel while reaching for the stabilizer controls.

 

But even now, key evidence and past incidents suggest the cause may still lie elsewhere — with system design, ignored advisories, or software faults that mimic human mistakes.

 

How Air India crash probe can still rule out pilot error — despite new findings

 

The article goes on to list 5 reasons why it's too early to blame the pilots.

 

31 minutes ago, bannork said:

Dubai: Just when the investigation into Air India flight AI171 seemed to shift its focus toward possible cockpit error, aviation experts are warning: don’t jump to conclusions yet.

 

Yes, the cockpit voice recorder indicates that the younger co-pilot questioned a sudden fuel switch-off. And yes, a veteran pilot has suggested the first officer may have accidentally shut off fuel while reaching for the stabilizer controls.

 

But even now, key evidence and past incidents suggest the cause may still lie elsewhere — with system design, ignored advisories, or software faults that mimic human mistakes.

 

How Air India crash probe can still rule out pilot error — despite new findings

 

The article goes on to list 5 reasons why it's too early to blame the pilots.

 

 

Sorry to say, I bothered to read it.

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Sorry to say, I bothered to read it.

Glad you spent your time fruitfully, no need to be sorry

 

1. Did the software have a known bug?

US aviation expert Mary Schiavo refers to a similar Boeing 787 incident involving All Nippon Airways in 2019, where both engines failed due to a software glitch — the aircraft's system falsely believed it was on the ground and cut fuel accordingly.

The Japanese airline could fortunately be towed whilst Air India had no chance- no altitude or time to recover.

 

2. Poor cockpit design 

Even if one of the pilots  operated the switch mid-take off, it may not have been deliberate.

 The stabilizer control switches — which the crew reported issues with earlier — are located next to the fuel cut-off switches. In the chaos of a stabilizer failure, a pilot could reach for one switch and hit the other.

 

3.  Regulators were warned  yet no inspections

Less than a month before the crash, the UK Civil Aviation Authority issued a warning over fuel shutoff valve issues on Boeing aircraft, including the 787.

The fuel control system had shown signs of potential failure across multiple models, however Air India didn't check the locking mechanism of the AI171’s fuel switch because a 2018 FAA advisory about the component was only that -advisory, not compulsory.