Dating From Your Own Pool

[howtoescape]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about dating/marrying/<deleted> middle class or lower class Thai women on here, and there seems to be an aim amongst many to get a so called "educated middle class girl."

Now i am from a proud working class family and my last 2 gf's in the UK were both very wealthy middle class and stunningly beautiful size 8's, one was 19 the other 24, but they were the coldest, most heartless, selfish, arrogant women that ive ever had the displeasure of giving the pleasures of my loins too. (They werent that bright either)

Now before i met these girls my previous GF was a warm, kind, selfless very poor Thai girl and she said to me "Why you not get Thai lady middle class, you can get one so easy, why you stay me?"

My answer was i dont go for middle class girls in England so why would i want one in Thailand. Then id use my silver tounged charm to explain that she was 1000 times better then any rich girl.

Now after my experience with these 2 stuck up Engish girls, I can 99% guarantee, i will never marry a English middle class girl (is that the sound of a million hearts breaking i hear) as i see them as lacking the sincere warmth a working class women offers, they lack in basic common sense and i cant relate to them as i do with women from poorer backgrounds.

I have always thought that when i move to Thailand i would prefer a women from a poor/working class background as rightly or wrongly i believe id have more understanding with them.

Now do you Farangs prefer to stick to your own so called social class in Thailand or have you jumped the class barrier, and what are the main differences you have found between the 2 classes.

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

[BKK90210]

Doesn’t matter…

If I don’t like her. It will be because of her personality, not her race or class or nationality

[wasabi]

I think you've come up with an interesting point about class. You've also captured part of why I don't date around here, the lack of warmth and topics we can relate on. It just seems women around here are angling for status much more than the LOS girls I come across. I'm not talking about the face one may gain by showing off gold or a new car, but something bigger like a position in society or a few rungs up the corporate ladder. It just seems they take much more than they give.

As for LOS girls I'd prefer a middle class girl from a financially solvent family with few siblings. But any girl who is kind and proves herself loyal will do.

Edited August 10, 2007 by wasabi

[bkkmadness]

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

The majority of TV posters are idiots.

People want to stop worrying about classes and whether their gfs are thai chinese and just get on with finding someone compatible. I never met so many stuck up snobbish pricks as the farangs in Thailand screaming "My girlfriend has a degree and a car!"

Edited August 10, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Pepe']

I don't date from my own pool as I only have a jaccuzi...

[howtoescape]

Doesn't matter…

If I don't like her. It will be because of her personality, not her race or class or nationality

Has there never been a certain race, class or nationality youve prefered over another, im no human analsyst but i believe your race, class and nationality are the 3 of the most important aspects to determine your personality.

As there has been so many books written on race, class and nationality then they must in the human imagination exist.

Edited August 11, 2007 by howtoescape

[jumnien]

It all depends what you want to do in Thailand. If you want to rice farm or start an orchard or fish farm and enjoy the beauty of the countryside, then you might be better off with a country girl. On the other hand, if you want a partner to navigate thru Thai gov't regulations regarding importing an airplane or boat or developing land, you might be better off with an educated girl. There are many lifestyles and life partners to choose from. Just don't pick a partner who can't read and write and wonder why they can't help you paperwork.

[November Rain]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about dating/marrying/<deleted> middle class or lower class Thai women on here, and there seems to be an aim amongst many to get a so called "educated middle class girl."

Now i am from a proud working class family and my last 2 gf's in the UK were both very wealthy middle class and stunningly beautiful size 8's, one was 19 the other 24,

Why are their dress sizes and ages relevant? Doing a bit of boasting, yourself?

Now after my experience with these 2 stuck up Engish girls, I can 99% guarantee, i will never marry a English middle class girl (is that the sound of a million hearts breaking i hear)

Hmm, let me listen... shhh... Nope, it's definitely cheering & applause!

I have always thought that when i move to Thailand i would prefer a women from a poor/working class background as rightly or wrongly i believe id have more understanding with them.

Now do you Farangs prefer to stick to your own so called social class in Thailand or have you jumped the class barrier, and what are the main differences you have found between the 2 classes.

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

First of all, don't Thais have an upper class? What's all this '2 class' talk?

Secondly, for most people, I would say it doesn't matter. You find who you love, regardless of their class. For you OP, it obviously matters, but I can't work out whether you want to boast or whether you are a proponent of reverse snobbery. Either way, it's obviously important for you to be able to talk about your choice & reasons behind it, rather than accepting a partner for who & what she is. So, which would you like to say? "She's size 4, 24 and has a degree & a good paying job?" or "She's size 4, 19 and comes from a poor farming family in Isaan, but I don't care, I'm not the sort of person who lets that bother me, I'm your original working class hero, me!"

This doesn't seem to be about class war in Thailand, or even about the girls, just about how you want to view yourself.

Edited August 11, 2007 by November Rain

[Valjean]

I think there is something to this. I come from the US where perhaps we’ve not a class conscious in terms of what class you were born into but there are levels of socio-economic class. I worked with a woman in the US in a management position, MBA from top school who was dating and eventually married a fireman. You could see in social situations she felt the need to explain this – and knowing her as this driven, very smart person you wondered but she always said she found her soul-mate and best friend. Of course in the reverse this wouldn’t have been as much or any of an issue. Girls can marry up with less stigma.

As I settled in to life here in Thailand, dated and worked with women from various strata of Thai society and economic levels and clearly good hearts are found everywhere. (and the inverse of course). There is an element for me of downsizing in coming to Thailand – my lifestyle, expectations, costs – a number of things. I had a friend from the US come last weekend – really like him but he talked about how hard it is to make ends meet on $300,000 a year, stocks, rental units, investments, business, art collections, remolding, $100,000 garden projects – you get the picture. I’m tired of this. I’m happy to be comfortable.

So for me to marry down some within the context of “my class” to my gf class (whatever that is) within Thailand I specifically think in my case that is a good idea. I like the lower expectations. It’s not that she doesn’t have them, pretty much everyone wants more, bigger, better – especially a Thai girl marring a farang. But her idea of what constitutes “more, bigger, better” is very in line with my own downsized expectations. I assume (and I could be wrong) that if I marry a Thai woman from a family with similar economic or work levels as me that she comes with a different set of expectations; the house, belonging to the right club that the family does, etc. Clearly this is a generalization that can’t possibly be true at each individual’s level – but it’s the generalization that I’ve operated under.

For me it’s not class per se – it’s about economic expectations which at least in the US is really how class is defined (outside of perhaps a very, very small number of old money families from the east coast – most of whom their ancestors just came off the boat like every other poor soul). So in that context I am looking for someone “lower class”. BUT I do also think I’ve found someone who can scale up some. Meaning she can come to my company, family or other social functions and interact, show and be respected, etc. So to the comment above about college – that is for me important, not necessarily a deal breaker but it shows an aspiration, especially from someone who’s parents didn’t go and has had to work and go to school to get this education. There could be any number of really wonderful very poor women who would make great wives but that maybe would never be comfortable in the occasional social function I must do, or if I get transferred to Singapore or Europe would have trouble adjusting, etc. I am really happy to go down market some and lucky to find someone who’s happy and capable to go up market some. We meet in this new “middle class’ and that’s just fine for me.

[howtoescape]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about dating/marrying/<deleted> middle class or lower class Thai women on here, and there seems to be an aim amongst many to get a so called "educated middle class girl."

Now i am from a proud working class family and my last 2 gf's in the UK were both very wealthy middle class and stunningly beautiful size 8's, one was 19 the other 24,

Why are their dress sizes and ages relevant? Doing a bit of boasting, yourself?

Now after my experience with these 2 stuck up Engish girls, I can 99% guarantee, i will never marry a English middle class girl (is that the sound of a million hearts breaking i hear)

Hmm, let me listen... shhh... Nope, it's definitely cheering & applause!

I have always thought that when i move to Thailand i would prefer a women from a poor/working class background as rightly or wrongly i believe id have more understanding with them.

Now do you Farangs prefer to stick to your own so called social class in Thailand or have you jumped the class barrier, and what are the main differences you have found between the 2 classes.

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

First of all, don't Thais have an upper class? What's all this '2 class' talk?

Secondly, for most people, I would say it doesn't matter. You find who you love, regardless of their class. For you OP, it obviously matters, but I can't work out whether you want to boast or whether you are a proponent of reverse snobbery. Either way, it's obviously important for you to be able to talk about your choice & reasons behind it, rather than accepting a partner for who & what she is. So, which would you like to say? "She's size 4, 24 and has a degree & a good paying job?" or "She's size 4, 19 and comes from a poor farming family in Isaan, but I don't care, I'm not the sort of person who lets that bother me, I'm your original working class hero, me!"

This doesn't seem to be about class war in Thailand, or even about the girls, just about how you want to view yourself.

1.You really are the No.1 amateur psychologist. 2. I would never boast about these girls, i was emphasing a point about as recent posts had showed that people preferred WHITE LOOKING YOUNG ATTRACTIVE MIDDLE CLASS WOMEN ( I dont) 3. I have only dated poor or bar girls in Thailand. 4. from what i gather Thai upper class aren’t to into us Farangs, 5. Last time i read about sociology there were 6 or 7 classes i was trying to keep it simple with 2. 6. Im no "working class hero" i hate working on building sites, shipyards (you shouldnt quote The Champage Socialist John Lennon whilst trying to come across as bright).

[spot]

The old concept of class has nothing to do with it - it's about money.

People are divided in to groups depending on how much money they have.

A poor farmer might win the lottery and be instantly elevated in to a different social group.

A <deleted> can come from any social group.

[bendix]

A <deleted> can come from any social group.

As the OP more than adequately illustrates.

[Gary A]

I came to Thailand in 1991 to work. I recruited two American friends to work for the same Thai company. Another American come to install some major equipment and was here a couple of years. Since I was the old hand, I was a tour guide and was quite familiar with the bar scene. I introduced all three friends to what I considered to be good hearted bar girls. All three eventually married their bar girls. I chose another route. I married an educated accountant with a degree. Guess which marriage failed? My three friends are still happily married. Two still live in Thailand and one took his bride to the US. Social class?

[November Rain]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about dating/marrying/<deleted> middle class or lower class Thai women on here, and there seems to be an aim amongst many to get a so called "educated middle class girl."

Now i am from a proud working class family and my last 2 gf's in the UK were both very wealthy middle class and stunningly beautiful size 8's, one was 19 the other 24,

Why are their dress sizes and ages relevant? Doing a bit of boasting, yourself?

Now after my experience with these 2 stuck up Engish girls, I can 99% guarantee, i will never marry a English middle class girl (is that the sound of a million hearts breaking i hear)

Hmm, let me listen... shhh... Nope, it's definitely cheering & applause!

I have always thought that when i move to Thailand i would prefer a women from a poor/working class background as rightly or wrongly i believe id have more understanding with them.

Now do you Farangs prefer to stick to your own so called social class in Thailand or have you jumped the class barrier, and what are the main differences you have found between the 2 classes.

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

First of all, don't Thais have an upper class? What's all this '2 class' talk?

Secondly, for most people, I would say it doesn't matter. You find who you love, regardless of their class. For you OP, it obviously matters, but I can't work out whether you want to boast or whether you are a proponent of reverse snobbery. Either way, it's obviously important for you to be able to talk about your choice & reasons behind it, rather than accepting a partner for who & what she is. So, which would you like to say? "She's size 4, 24 and has a degree & a good paying job?" or "She's size 4, 19 and comes from a poor farming family in Isaan, but I don't care, I'm not the sort of person who lets that bother me, I'm your original working class hero, me!"

This doesn't seem to be about class war in Thailand, or even about the girls, just about how you want to view yourself.

1.You really are the No.1 amateur psychologist. 2. I would never boast about these girls, i was emphasing a point about as recent posts had showed that people preferred WHITE LOOKING YOUNG ATTRACTIVE MIDDLE CLASS WOMEN ( I dont) 3. I have only dated poor or bar girls in Thailand. 4. from what i gather Thai upper class aren’t to into us Farangs, 5. Last time i read about sociology there were 6 or 7 classes i was trying to keep it simple with 2. 6. Im no "working class hero" i hate working on building sites, shipyards (you shouldnt quote The Champage Socialist John Lennon whilst trying to come across as bright).

No, I'm not an amateur psychologist, nor have I read sociology. I'm just saying what I saw in your post. Quite simple, really. Neither am I "trying to come across as bright". I know my own level of intelligence & couldn't really give a toss whether others are impressed by me, or not. OK, that's points 1,5 and 6 dealt with.

2. You haven't answered my question. You have stated you weren't boasting, so why were these girls' ages & dress sizes relevant? I don't actually think your reading of other members' preferences is correct, but even if it is, "white looking" would rarely mean "farang". So, I still don't see how the ages & dress sizes of your previous farang girlfriends is relevant (unless you feel it will impress others, but you've denied that.)

3. What am I supposed to say to that? Good for you? OK, then: Good for you. Well done. Why do you think anyone would care what "type" of girl you'd dated? Surely, as I said before, the girl herself should be more important than her classification.

4. Wouldn't know. You don't read about it much on Thai forums, sure, but I'm not sure whether that is conclusive evidence.

I think the most important point I've made is no. 3. But again, that leads me to wonder why a potential partner's classification is so important to you, unless you feel the need to boast about it, or explain it away.

[mrtoad]

I'm going to sum this up in two words;

Who cares?

Edited August 11, 2007 by mrtoad

[britmaveric]

You are with who you love, supposed social status has no relevance.

[Naam]

I don't date from my own pool as I only have a jaccuzi...

if i dated from my pool my wife would soon find out

[meemiathai]

PS I am not aiming to start a class war but after reading many posts on here the majority of TV members seem to believe there is a definite difference between the classes in Thailand.

The majority of TV posters are idiots.

People want to stop worrying about classes and whether their gfs are thai chinese and just get on with finding someone compatible. I never met so many stuck up snobbish pricks as the farangs in Thailand screaming "My girlfriend has a degree and a car!"

And she is not a BG.

[jackmuu]

Only a complete tool would care about class or education when selecting a partner. Anyone here who works is working class surely?

[Sanpatong]

In my experience it's a LOT better to pick someone from a similar (or higher ) background as yourself. For several reasons, but most of them related to the following two things:

1. Better understanding of each other, compatible interests, higher level of communication.

2. Her middle-classishness also means you avoid a lot of the trouble related to coming from a 'hand to mouth' mentality towards money and posessions. A lot of people are plainly incapable to plan or budget for things, or perceive themselves to be in a position of having to beg/borrow/steal as much money as possible, as opposed to an attitude of 'I want to MAKE money to add to our joint income'. The latter is HIGHLY preferable.

DISCLAIMER: No, the above doesn't apply to all people and for sure you can find plenty exceptions. So let me actually turn it around then and not claim that the above two points are inherently present in middle/higher class people, but rather focus on the above 2 points and make sure your parner passes both of them WITHOUT worrying about class to much.

So basically that leaves you with the most common sensish things in the world: Do you enjoy spending time together and do you share interests, and 2, do you make a good 'team' in establishing a family, managing budget/finances and is there complete trust in this regard. Then the class thing is just a footnote.

[JimsKnight]

Agreed on that one HTE. Working class girls (Of all nations) have a lot more heart and spirit in themselves. The've come from the hard life (usually) and make interesting partners.

Finding a middle-class one that has all that is a tough one...

[calibanjr.]

A <deleted> can come from any social group.

As the OP more than adequately illustrates.

C'mon, Bendix. I'm a regular and know you're a bit of a curmudgeon, but usually worth a read, even though we're quite often not on the same page opinion-wise. That kind of a throw-away critique (implying the insult of the "tool" post you used) isn't up to your standards. The OP has addressed a topic that is relevant (though obviously not novel) to us strangers in a strange land. I will agree that it is infelicitously worded, but the T word isn't really applicable. Yet.

[a2396]

The class of the lady is not important to me. Their honesty and integrity are. If you are living in LOS and are not young, rich and/or handsome, your chanches of attaching to an upper class or even middle class lady are slim. They are not going to lower themselves and tarnish their reputation by bothering with Farangs unless they may have something unusual to offer.

[jackmuu]

If you are living in LOS and are not young, rich and/or handsome, your chanches of attaching to an upper class or even middle class lady are slim. They are not going to lower themselves and tarnish their reputation by bothering with Farangs unless they may have something unusual to offer.

What utter nonsense

[rainman]

I don't date from my own pool as I only have a jaccuzi...

Small world.

[a2396]

If you are living in LOS and are not young, rich and/or handsome, your chanches of attaching to an upper class or even middle class lady are slim. They are not going to lower themselves and tarnish their reputation by bothering with Farangs unless they may have something unusual to offer.

What utter nonsense

It ain't nonsense to me pal. That's the reality I have seen every day here for the past three years. IF, they interested in a Farang it is because: 1. The Farang can provide money 2. May be a ticket to take them to the Farang's country. 3. Possibly a handsome charmer (the Farang). It is certainly not because of high level communication. In my three years here, I know about six Thais (women) who speak a level of English sufficient to form a foundation for a good relationship. Four of them have Thai BF's or are married to Thais. The remaing two are shopping for a Frang, who can provide what they may consider adequate financial security. One is asking for 1 million bht dowery. Would you like her email?

[BKK90210]

Doesn't matter…

If I don't like her. It will be because of her personality, not her race or class or nationality

Has there never been a certain race, class or nationality youve prefered over another, im no human analsyst but i believe your race, class and nationality are the 3 of the most important aspects to determine your personality.

As there has been so many books written on race, class and nationality then they must in the human imagination exist.

I’m an American, my wife is a thai – and have been together for over 2 decades so far, but we have no problems because of our race. Just learn how to make fun of each other culture. Take everything easy. Love doesn't know race, and class, at least for me anyway. Our marriage is based on friendship, mutual love & respect, and gives & takes – not race. She has been contributing as much as I have in our marriage…both emontionally and financially.

You just can’t pick and choose when and where or with whom you will get hit with the cupid arrows. Race and class only matter to bigots and racists.

[GuestHouse]

The OP seems to have condemned the whole of middleclass womanhood (and especially those in the west) on the basis of two relationships - Perhaps if he had chosen these partners for their personality (not their dress size) he might have had a different experience to report. I think it would be instructive to hear from those women on their experience with the OP - These things are by their nature two sided.

An interesting question to ask is how many Westerners in Thailand actually have a choice in the class of women they meet?

I doubt that the vast majority do on the basis that the majority do not come into social contact with middleclass Thai women - John David Morley discusses this and the impact it has on the foreigner's perception, experiences and choices in a foreign country in his book Pictures from the Water Trade

The synopsis is that as a foreigner your social interaction in [Thailand] starts in 'Hotels, Bars, Restaurants' [What the Japanese refer to as the Water Trade], he also discusses the difficulty of moving from that social circle to the wider community and how many choose not to progress their social circle.

My own observation is that while I have worked with many foreigners in offices full of well educated and middle class Thais, hence having direct contact with these middleclass women (and importantly the wide social circle of friends and relatives outside the office) - Interestingly very few of those foreigners chose to date from the pool of well educated middleclass women they were meeting, choosing rather to select partners from 'The Water Trade'.

I've been in many discussions with foreign colleagues on why they don't want to date the middleclass woman they are being introduced to (Introductions being so very important) - The reasons have been many, not wanting to have a relationship at work is clearly one, but I think not wanting to have partner who is on an equal footing is another. Choosing a partner from 'The Water Trade' perhaps leaves the guy believing he is in control.

But it is a choice that comes with its own restrictions.

There could be any number of really wonderful very poor women who would make great wives but that maybe would never be comfortable in the occasional social function I must do, or if I get transferred to Singapore or Europe would have trouble adjusting, etc.

I know of three highly qualified expats in high profile career positions who have married Thai women from 'The Water Trade' only to find what Valjean says above is a huge issue. Moving into each other's life is not easy if you are not 'equipped' by education and upbringing to do so.

And its not just about career and social image - Marriage and relationships are also about having and raising children. Since we are in the main part talking about Foreign men marrying Thai women we might be mindful of something Ghandi said 'When you educate a woman you educate a family' - The corollary is also true –often tragically so.

Edited August 11, 2007 by GuestHouse

[WaiWai]

Now after my experience with these 2 stuck up Engish girls, I can 99% guarantee, i will never marry a English middle class girl (is that the sound of a million hearts breaking i hear) as i see them as lacking the sincere warmth a working class women offers, they lack in basic common sense and i cant relate to them as i do with women from poorer backgrounds.

Quite sweeping generalisations about both groups !

I think the main issue is "cant relate to them". Not sure why; you appear to be middle-classish yourself now(no ?). Wouldn't other now-middle class women from poorer backgrounds be a closer match, in your terms ?

[WaiWai]

The reasons have been many, not wanting to have a relationship at work is clearly one, but I think not wanting to have partner who is on an equal footing is another. Choosing a partner from 'The Water Trade' perhaps leaves the guy believing he is in control.

Absolutely, and I have to say that I wondered if the OP was not simply attempting to rationalise precisely that.